S01.E11: Home of the Brave

[AntFTW]

[millennium]

On 9/15/2022 at 9:30 PM, AntFTW said:

I will say this about Tyson's podcast, I may have listened to one episode of Tyson's podcast before this one about the final but he makes it sound like he was getting unfair treatment because he didn't know how to do a sudoku puzzle and he didn't get to time out of the sudoku puzzle but Sarah got to time out of the hex puzzle.

He makes it sounds like its unfair that Angela gets kicked off for not finishing the dirt digging checkpoint while there are others who also didn't finish and they didn't get kicked off. He kinda brushes off that Angela stopped participating, unlike himself and Cayla, Justine and Danny, and Dom and Sarah. He focuses on the fact that she didn't finish, but not that she quit. That's a distinction I think he ignores.

He makes it sounds like its unfair that Justine got to time out of the word puzzle when she didn't finish but himself and Angela didn't get to time out on their respective checkpoints that they quit on.

I think he's painting a view wherein he, Tyson Apostol, was wronged because other people got away with conduct that he couldn't get away with meanwhile he gets punished and Angela gets punished.

I just finished watching a few minutes ago.

I have been trashing this show from the start -- and feel 100% vindicated.

Maybe the quitters would have been better off with checkpoint challenges where they had to make X-amount of Instagram posts within a certain time limit.   Or chug down some smoothies. 

The big mystery to me is why TJ didn't clown even one of them for quitting.  Not Enzo, not Angela, not one of them.   Where's the famous, "Everybody knows I hate quitters" attitude?

It was dismal to see Sarah win by default.  Wait, strike that.  Not dismal -- abysmal.

But the thing that offended me most ...

Tyson.

"Fuck this shit."

Tyson didn't just quit.   He insulted the show.

On The Challenge, I have seen egomaniac Wes Bergmann carried up a mountain on his partner's back like a baby because his body quit on him.   I have seen a giant named Zach Nichols reduced to a blubbering mess because all of his muscles cramped up.   I have seen a petite British girl named Georgia collapse of exhaustion in the desert, delirious, and needing to be medi-vacced out.   Nicole Zannata was in a final and broke her ankle ...

They didn't quit.  They didn't say "Fuck this shit."

Those three words confirmed that Tyson has never appreciated the privilege of being invited to participate on this show.   What came shining through from start to disgraceful finish was his attitude that he deserved to be on The Challenge USA and he deserved to win.   His comments on the trail about his bicycle races and marathons and running on trails in Utah were the ramblings of a cocksure, condescending braggart who fully expected to be handed prize money after he rounded the next bend.

Fuck this shit.

No, fuck you, Tyson.   You're a no-class loser.  You never should have been invited to the show, and if there's any justice you never will be again.

You don't deserve it.

Edited September 17, 2022 by millennium

[AManfred]

https://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2022/09/challenge-usa-final-shocking-claims/?utm_source=realityblurred&utm_medium=email

A good compilation of interviews/BTS info.

[Maya]

I agree with those who think production told (possibly helped?) Sarah to finish/win so they would have a male/female duo to send to the next competition.

[AntFTW]

7 hours ago, millennium said:

I just finished watching a few minutes ago.

I have been trashing this show from the start -- and feel 100% vindicated.

Maybe the quitters would have been better off with checkpoint challenges where they had to make X-amount of Instagram posts within a certain time limit.   Or chug down some smoothies. 

The big mystery to me is why TJ didn't clown even one of them for quitting.  Not Enzo, not Angela, not one of them.   Where's the famous, "Everybody knows I hate quitters" attitude?

It was dismal to see Sarah win by default.  Wait, strike that.  Not dismal -- abysmal.

But the thing that offended me most ...

Tyson.

"Fuck this shit."

Tyson didn't just quit.   He insulted the show.

On The Challenge, I have seen egomaniac Wes Bergmann carried up a mountain on his partner's back like a baby because his body quit on him.   I have seen a giant named Zach Nichols reduced to a blubbering mess because all of his muscles cramped up.   I have seen a petite British girl named Georgia collapse of exhaustion in the desert, delirious, and needing to be medi-vacced out.   Nicole Zannata was in a final and broke her ankle ...

They didn't quit.  They didn't say "Fuck this shit."

Those three words confirmed that Tyson has never appreciated the privilege of being invited to participate on this show.   What came shining through from start to disgraceful finish was his attitude that he deserved to be on The Challenge USA and he deserved to win.   His comments on the trail about his bicycle races and marathons and running on trails in Utah were the ramblings of a cocksure, condescending braggart who fully expected to be handed prize money after he rounded the next bend.

Fuck this shit.

No, fuck you, Tyson.   You're a no-class loser.  You never should have been invited to the show, and if there's any justice you never will be again.

You don't deserve it.

Before this final, I would have said I would have liked to see Tyson on the flagship show because he played a decent game up until the final. However, he can keep his sour grapes off that show. He can take his ball and go home.

[aghst]

He wouldn't be that good on the regular Challenge.

They don't do enough endurance activities in the Daily Challenges.

This Challenge USA season had a couple of Daily Challenges where swimming was a key part of who won.

He'd be tough running up the mountain.  He's not bad with the slide puzzles either.

But anything involving strength especially in elimination, would pit him against someone likely heavier and stronger.

[Libby]

I think that the MTV cast is there for the weekly salary rather than the big money. They come back season after season after season. It's their actual job. I think that if they win the big money occasionally, great, but that's not actually what they are there for. They need their salary every year. Consequently, if things aren't fair, or if they get cheated, they really don't care because the thing of most importance to them is coming back over and over again. Even new players let things go because they want to become a player that gets asked back every season.

The CBS cast, on the other hand, isn't trying to make The Challenge their job. For most of them this is a one time thing. They are leaving their real lives to appear on the show and have a shot at the big money. They expect fairness and professionalism at all times. They learned that they aren't going to get it from this show.

I think that's why the MTV Challenge works while the CBS Challenge was a disaster. The MTV cast doesn't quit, for the most part. No matter how brutal the final is, even if they know they can't win, whether it's fair or unfair, they don't want to jeopardize their chance to come back every season.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Libby

[Jobiska]

Oh, I forgot that I also laughed when Angela, having sent Alyssa home, said TJ was going to make her cry again and he said "That's what I'm trying to do!"  

And Tyler's birthday facetime was sweet.  I mean, good for him and Angela that they found each other.  Now they can go back to making and selling jewelry and have a happy life.

[AntFTW]

38 minutes ago, Libby said:

The CBS cast, on the other hand, isn't looking for a career out of this.

I'm not so certain about that. At least, I wouldn't say that for all of them. I don't know if I'm painting with too wide of a brush but I definitely think some of them intend on rolling this show into a new opportunity on another show (and not just come back to The Challenge specifically), and keeping that momentum going.

Edited September 17, 2022 by AntFTW

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

I'm not so certain about that. At least, I wouldn't say that for all of them. I don't know if I'm painting with too wide of a brush but I definitely think some of them intend on rolling this show into a new opportunity on another show (and not just come back to The Challenge specifically), and keeping that momentum going.

Yeah, especially because some of the contestants were kind of random picks.  I don't know if Desi would have ever been invited back to do another season of Survivor, but if they do a returning player season in the near future this may have given her a better chance.  You never know what other reality show will pop up that recycles reality show contestants or is looking for C/D list celebs.  These types of shows are cheap to produce and would be great slots to fill in the winter/summer/streaming.  

I do hope this is the last we've seen of Enzo.  Desi mentioned in one of her exit interviews that after he quit he was more concerned with how he'd look on TV.  Hopefully he got a reality check.  He's really no good at this stuff unless someone is leading him along. 

[greyflannel]

So, being the only female willing to suck it up, gut it out, push through the pain and exhaustion and NOT QUIT, is winning "by default?" Okay...

[KeithJ]

2 hours ago, Libby said:

I think that the MTV cast is there for the weekly salary rather than the big money. They come back season after season after season. It's their actual job. I think that if they win the big money occasionally, great, but that's not actually what they are there for. They need their salary every year. Consequently, if things aren't fair, or if they get cheated, they really don't care because the thing of most importance to them is coming back over and over again. Even new players let things go because they want to become a player that gets asked back every season.

This is the first time I’ve watched the show.  On MTV they have the same contestants year after year?

[DEL901]

3 minutes ago, greyflannel said:

So, being the only female willing to suck it up, gut it out, push through the pain and exhaustion and NOT QUIT, is winning "by default?" Okay...

AND who thought she was in last 0lace but was determined to finish no matter what.  

[AntFTW]

5 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

This is the first time I’ve watched the show.  On MTV they have the same contestants year after year?

Yup. There's a rotation of them.

Many frequent cast members have said the reason they love The Challenge more than other competition shows, or is better than the others, is because they can get invited back each season.

The MTV show usually shoots 2 seasons a year, much like Survivor. Survivor players rarely get invited back to Survivor. Tyson played Survivor 4 times, and the seasons he played were years apart. The themes of his Survivor seasons required returning players. The overwhelming majority of Survivor players only play once, and that's it. The same is not true of The Challenge. The Challenge invites people back season after season.

Edited September 17, 2022 by AntFTW

[millennium]

10 minutes ago, greyflannel said:

So, being the only female willing to suck it up, gut it out, push through the pain and exhaustion and NOT QUIT, is winning "by default?" Okay...

I see your point.  But she wasn't the only female willing.   Desi was knocked out through no fault of her own.   Angela, well ... she appeared to think she was playing by the rules but made a costly mistake.   Did Sarah perform better than Justine and Cayla?  Absolutely.  But it still doesn't seem like a "win" to me.  (Full disclosure: I can't stand Sarah so perhaps that skews my perspective).

3 hours ago, Libby said:

I think that the MTV cast is there for the weekly salary rather than the big money. They come back season after season after season. It's their actual job. I think that if they win the big money occasionally, great, but that's not actually what they are there for.

I think the most prominent players do it for sheer love of the game and the experience of spending the world's longest Spring Break with old friends.   The prize money's nice, but they rarely seem upset when they don't win.  

[peachmangosteen]

25 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

This is the first time I’ve watched the show.  On MTV they have the same contestants year after year?

Yes, and it's exhausting. It's part of what's killed it imo. Especially because the people that come back year after year suck lol.

If they do another season of this, I hope it's all new people.

[greyflannel]

5 minutes ago, millennium said:

I see your point.  But she wasn't the only female willing.   Desi was knocked out through no fault of her own.   Angela, well ... she appeared to think she was playing by the rules but made a costly mistake.   Did Sarah perform better than Justine and Cayla?  Absolutely.  But it still doesn't seem like a "win" to me.  (Full disclosure: I can't stand Sarah so perhaps that skews my perspective).

I think the most prominent players do it for sheer love of the game and the experience of spending the world's longest Spring Break with old friends.   The prize money's nice, but they rarely seem upset when they don't win.  

Angela knew or should have known that if you choose to not do a challenge (quit), you're going to be disqualified. It shouldn't have been a surprise. But she seemed to carry around a whole lot of entitlement, so that may have had something to do with it. And, full disclosure, I can't stand Angela, so I'm not inclined to cut her any slack on not understanding that there is a big difference between doing the task until you're timed out and just deciding not to do it.

I agree with you on Desi. That sucked, and I wish she was able to stay in.  Still, there were 4 women left in the challenge and Sarah was the only one that completed the race. The other women chose not to finish the tasks. To me, that's an unqualified win.

[snarts]

On the overnight checkpoint, the two person teams were able to rest one person at a time. Only one team finished and the rest timed out and were allowed to continue. I'm really curious what would've happened if Angela had shoveled for an hour and then gone to sleep.  Or, if she'd slept for 5 hours and then woke up and shoveled. In other words, was she allowed to rest at all?

Edited September 17, 2022 by snarts

[millennium]

28 minutes ago, greyflannel said:

And, full disclosure, I can't stand Angela, so I'm not inclined to cut her any slack on not understanding that there is a big difference between doing the task until you're timed out and just deciding not to do it.

I completely agree.  Angela messed up, whether due to poor judgment, entitlement, or both.

Her actions, and those of others in the final, made me suspect that for all their talk of loving The Challenge, they probably don't watch the show.   For example, going on any version of The Challenge without an understanding of Sudoku is kind of like going on Survivor without knowing how to make fire.  So many Challenge puzzles over the years have been based on Sudoku.   They should have anticipated it.  Danny did, and that's a big part of why he won.   He said he spent the month before coming on practicing Sudoku puzzles.    Obviously he watched the show.

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yes, and it's exhausting. It's part of what's killed it imo. Especially because the people that come back year after year suck lol.

I would contend that the returning cast are the special sauce that sets The Challenge apart.   As for sucking, they routinely outperform most newcomers.   

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, snarts said:

On the overnight checkpoint, the two person teams were able to rest one person at a time. Only one team finished and the rest timed out and were allowed to continue. I'm really curious what would've happened if Angela had shoveled for an hour and then gone to sleep.  Or, if she'd slept for 5 hours and then woke up and shoveled. In other words, was she allowed to rest at all?

I was wondering that same thing. I have to assume they’d let her rest but then I’d also assume she would have only been given half the amount of dirt and apparently that’s not the case. This final was just a shit show and TPTB only have themselves to blame.

[AntFTW]

5 hours ago, snarts said:

On the overnight checkpoint, the two person teams were able to rest one person at a time. Only one team finished and the rest timed out and were allowed to continue. I'm really curious what would've happened if Angela had shoveled for an hour and then gone to sleep.  Or, if she'd slept for 5 hours and then woke up and shoveled. In other words, was she allowed to rest at all?

That seems to be a question that is unanswered.

I think Tyson mentioned that Angela shoveled and dug "for a while." I don't recall him mentioning a specific duration for how long she was digging. It seems she did some amount of digging. She was aware that she was at a disadvantage and was not going to win that checkpoint, and therefore, decided to stop.

I also wonder if she was allowed to stop at any point and come back to continue shoveling.

5 hours ago, greyflannel said:

And, full disclosure, I can't stand Angela, so I'm not inclined to cut her any slack on not understanding that there is a big difference between doing the task until you're timed out and just deciding not to do it.

5 hours ago, millennium said:

I completely agree.  Angela messed up, whether due to poor judgment, entitlement, or both.

Her actions, and those of others in the final, made me suspect that for all their talk of loving The Challenge, they probably don't watch the show.

Those are the reasons I can't give anyone of them any slack.

That's why I can't take the calls of unfairness from Tyson seriously. It seems Tyson is where all of the calls of unfairness of production's arbitrary rule-setting comes from. It's believable to me that production can make up arbitrary rules as they go. However, after everything I've heard regarding time-outs at checkpoints and Angela's elimination from the final sound reasonable to me, and that's after listening to and reading all the interviews from the several cast members.

Sure, it's unfair that Angela had to move 2/3 of the dirt. It's also unfair that Justine had to remember twice the amount of numbers as everyone else on the word puzzle. It's unfair that Cayla had to do the math after the eating checkpoint by herself while the other women had help. It's unfair that Desi had to be attached to Enzo's non-swimming ass, and Sarah got to run solo and not have a chance to be sabotaged by a partner on the swim.

5 hours ago, millennium said:

For example, going on any version of The Challenge without an understanding of Sudoku is kind of like going on Survivor without knowing how to make fire.

Exactly.

I can't feel bad for someone not knowing how to do a Sudoku puzzle. I don't feel bad that production didn't give more instruction other than "finish the pattern."

If you don't know the puzzle, you're just gonna sit there until you figure it out or until you time out. That's the game.

5 hours ago, millennium said:

Danny did, and that's a big part of why he won.   He said he spent the month before coming on practicing Sudoku puzzles.    Obviously he watched the show.

Yup, and got the same amount of instruction as everyone else.

Edited September 18, 2022 by AntFTW

[Diana Berry]

13 hours ago, AManfred said:

https://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2022/09/challenge-usa-final-shocking-claims/?utm_source=realityblurred&utm_medium=email

A good compilation of interviews/BTS info.

Congrats to Danny . He had no poker face.  I could tell he was much happier than Tyson from his talking heads at the beginning of the show so figured he won. Sarah winning even though getting a time out that more annoying.  
 

Read the article. What a disaster.   So Angela could have just acted like she was working the task, taken a time out and still competed that stinks.  It says that you could rest while your partner worked… she had no partner.   
 

anyone that does these shows should know how to swim …Enzo.
 

Sarah conveniently chills under a bush, takes a timeout and ultimately wins because some of the competitors don’t know the rules of sudoku and weren’t given the rules ? Yikes.

this makes me admire the well oiled Survivor.  
 

bummed for everyone that competed.

[AntFTW]

😂

[DEL901]

I find it funny that Tyson thinks that if they had just posted the rules to Sudoko, he/they could have solved it.  Ask anyone who has tried Sudoko, just knowing the rules isn’t enough…you need practice…like Danny got in Survivor quarantine.   And this wasn’t one Sudoko, it was a grid of nine.  

[Mischievious]

I’m sure Angela could have worked, taken a break, and returned back to work. I think the biggest difference between her resting and Sarah’s resting is they have Angela with a hot mic saying “I quit.”

Perhaps if she hadn’t uttered those two words things would have been different but who knows. To me, she said she quit so therefore, per TJ, she is out. 

[djlynch]

If the order of events in the edit is correct and Sarah doesn't leave the hex puzzle until after Danny finishes and the other four quit, that seems to suggest a pretty consistent rule that puzzles only time out when you're the last person/team still competing and you get credit for not quitting as long as you make it to the finish line for that section of the course.

[Pebbles]

Very late to the party, but I feel like I watched a different season than many folks.  I didn’t think Sarah was whiny - abrasive, maybe, but not whiny.   I thought Angela and Tyson were increasingly whiny as the season went along and Alyssa was whiny from the start.  I’ve never watched Survivor, Big Brother, or Love Island, so I had no prior knowledge of most of these folks.  Maybe that made me view them differently from people who had seen them on other shows.

[Lantern7]

This guy has been doing stuff like this for all Challenge incarnations. This is the one he made for the finale, and it is a masterpiece.

[Ambader922]

On 9/16/2022 at 1:40 PM, DEL901 said:

In another interview I can’t find the link to, Tyson was pissed that the $500,000 would be split between the two winners and reduced by the money banked by any other finishers.  He understood that the full prize went to one winner….clearly not a Challenge fan.  

I just finished the finale and I am so confused by this. Danny and Sarah split $500K for finishing the finale, correct? PLUS whatever they had in their bank accounts or no? Either way, if no one else finished, HOW did Danny finish with LESS than $250K? Why was some amount subtracted from his cut of $500K if only he and Sarah finished and should have gotten at minimum $250K?

[Ambader922]

On 9/16/2022 at 1:40 PM, DEL901 said:

In another interview I can’t find the link to, Tyson was pissed that the $500,000 would be split between the two winners and reduced by the money banked by any other finishers.  He understood that the full prize went to one winner….clearly not a Challenge fan.  

Ok can someone please help me out cause I’m SO confused. Danny and Sarah are the only ones who finished. Thus, they split $500K, correct? Plus maybe whatever was in their bank accounts but at the very least $250K? So why did Danny finish with $245K and Sarah 255K? If no one else finished, wouldn’t the prize money not have been reduced at all? Those numbers were not explained and make no sense to me at ALL. 

[DEL901]

3 hours ago, Ambader922 said:

Ok can someone please help me out cause I’m SO confused. Danny and Sarah are the only ones who finished. Thus, they split $500K, correct? Plus maybe whatever was in their bank accounts but at the very least $250K? So why did Danny finish with $245K and Sarah 255K? If no one else finished, wouldn’t the prize money not have been reduced at all? Those numbers were not explained and make no sense to me at ALL. 

The amount they had in their banks prior to the finale was deducted from the $500,000 before the money was divided.  So they each got what was in their bank before the finale plus half of what was left.   Sarah had $10,000 more in her bank.  

[aghst]

In any event, about $250 before taxes, probably $150-160k after taxes.

Good amount of money but not necessarily life changing.

[lasu]

Um, I really wish I was currently living a life that $150K wouldn't be life changing!!  ($150K would put me in the "very financially secure" category, even if it wouldn't mean I could quit my job and travel non-stop.  But to me, going from "pretty financially secure but damn one disaster could be...disastrous" to "very financially secure" would be life changing.)

Can someone help me out here?  Yes, I absolutely agree Sarah deserves kudos for finishing.  No problem saying that.  But...could either Justine or Cayla have won at that point?  They barely even mentioned points after the first night, but Sarah made a big deal of pointing out that Angela couldn't have beaten her after that night.  According to Sarah (and I have no reason to doubt her), if Angela had "taken the loss" and not been disqualified, she wouldn't have been able to make up the points.  Sarah said that had Angela not been disqualifed and had come in first, and Sarah had come in last, Sarah still would have been (I think) one point ahead of Angela.  So it seems like Sarah could have/would have won no matter what place she finished, and if so, that explains a lot about why Cayla and Justine quit and Sarah didn't.  I think she knew coming in last didn't mean she lost, and that's a strong motivator.  To be clear, I think she would have finished it anyway, but I think she was likely going to win provided she finished.

[AntFTW]

On 10/5/2022 at 4:57 PM, lasu said:

Can someone help me out here?  Yes, I absolutely agree Sarah deserves kudos for finishing.  No problem saying that.  But...could either Justine or Cayla have won at that point?

I'm a little late here but... Cayla could have. Cayla could have won if Cayla came in first place and Sarah came in last. That is assuming that Justine also finished. If Sarah had come in 2nd place on the final leg behind either Justine or Cayla, Sarah would have won.

If Cayla completes the final leg up the mountain first, and Justine quits, Sarah wins.

If Cayla completes the final leg up the mountain first, and Justine comes in 2nd on the final leg, Cayla wins. Any scenario other than this one (other than maybe Sarah quitting), Sarah wins.

Edited November 21, 2022 by AntFTW

[jabRI]

On 9/16/2022 at 9:49 AM, Madding crowd said:

If I had never done Sudoku in my life and was just told to make a pattern I wouldn’t know what that meant.

I agree. I do a lot of puzzles, but when I started Sodoku i definetely had the read the rules a few times and see some examples to get it.  Follow the pattern means nothing, and it looks like the 9 boxes were not even delineated? They all seemed to run together.