S09.E18: Mental Health Care

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Main topic: Mental Health Care

Also: Freya the sunbathing walrus; Boris Johnson's farewell; the candidates for British PM; people on TV daydreaming about winning the lottery; the world's horniest televangelist  

Original air date 2022.07.31

[Annber03]

...all right, well, I'm going to need a shower after watching those clips of that televangelist o___O. What in the...? 

Kudos to Scott Pelley for destroying that idiot's claims about doctors making things sound more dramatic. I like how one minute the guy's going on about how he's never experienced a scenario of the sort Pelley mentions, and then the next he's all, "Well, there was this one case I was involved with..." and it's a story of a child who wound up committing suicide. Like, surely you'd remember that right off the top of your head, no? You wouldn't need someone like Pelley calling you out for you to suddenly recall it? Good god. 

Also, speaking as somebody who handles disability forms at our local hospital, and having heard stories from my sister when she worked in the psych section of the hospital (she wasn't a therapist, she worked on the office/billing side), I can safely say that guy Pelley called out is full of shit. If anything, we, as well as the doctors themselves, wind up being almost TOO conservative in how much time/money/etc. we'll allow, be it for people to have time off for a disability, or how much we'll charge for this or that procedure or session, or whatever. And that's because we know full well the insurance companies are going to be in contact with us at some point wanting more information to "clarify" things while they're working through various claims, and they want all the dates for procedures and time off and treatment plans and so on to be as EXACT as possible. We really don't have much opportunity to have a lot of room and leeway on that stuff. 

And I know it's quite common for insurance companies to claim they "never got" forms, even though I very clearly sent them in. The woman who trained me said she dealt with that issue a lot, too. Indeed, insurance companies will absolutely do any and everything they can to run circles around having to pay out any money, and companies will do whatever they can to avoid allowing patients TOO much time off, even when it's clear they really need it, and so on. So yeah. Thank you, Pelley, for exposing that guy for the moron he so clearly is. 

I also feel like this segment should be played on a loop the next time there's a mass shooting somewhere and the usual suspects come out with their typical, "It's clearly a mental health issue, people just need more mental healthcare and this won't happen!" response. Great! You (general "you") going to help fix all these problems highlighted here that make it hard for people to get that mental healthcare in the first place? 'Cause if not, then you need to sit down and shut up. 

(To say nothing of how most mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of violence instead of perpetrators, but pfft, why let facts and logic enter into the conversation, right?)

Like John said, though, if we had a universal healthcare system in this country, that really would solve so many of our problems. Maybe someday...*Sigh*

As for the UK news, kinda takes some of the celebration out of Johnson resigning to know he's going to potentially be followed by one of those yahoos, doesn't it :/? 

Poor little walrus :(. 

[ahisma]

What did I just SEE with that televangelist?!?! Unclean! Unclean! 

That TV host taking down ol’ Liz was beautiful. “ZERO.” “Well, er…” “ZERO.” 

This was the first story I thought of on the topic of lack of mental health care: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/virginia-state-senator-injured-in-home-another-person-found-dead-inside/2013/11/19/3e419ac4-512c-11e3-9fe0-fd2ca728e67c_story.html

That, and Reagan closing down mental hospitals. Apt analogy, for John to say we’ve gone from institutions like prisons to actual prisons. 

[JustHereForFood]

That walrus was precious. Animals are now fighting humans to slow down climate change in any way they can, is what I take from that. Also, how funny is it that all those people are just watching how it sinks those boats and do nothing to scare it away?

British politics continue to be a source of entertainment (and since we have our own government crisis right now, its kind of a relief to see that other countries are the same). As I understand it, whoever they choose, it will be a moron. That moderator was great at calling her on that BS. "It's zero". No fucking around.

The first "and now this" - go on, people on TV, keep informing us how you dislike your job that you would leave it the day you win the lottery. Nothing awkward about that.

The second one at the end, I opted to close the browser after few seconds, I'm sure I won't regret it.

As for the main topic, mental health continues to be at the bottom of medical issues, not just in the US. To be honest, if I ever really needed help, I would probably wait until things get so bad that it's the only option. I don't want to be pushed to take medication I might not need and I don't like talking to strangers at all, much less about my problems. My father suffers from depression and I have seen how the medication he takes becomes less effective over time, so he has to take more of it, and how much of a problem it was when he had to switch to another or when he tried to stop taking it... it wasn't pretty. So, thanks, but I will rather feel depressed than become addicted to anything. And don't get me started on how medical facilities look - if I had to stay in such place, I would definitely get more depressed and anxious just from being in that space. It seems more reasonable to me to visit a psychologist rather than psychiatrist, but then, it's still the question of how the person feels about talking to strangers about their most private thoughts and whether they can afford it. Thankfully, now with the internet, the online space can often function as a substitute for therapy - some people might feel more comfortable to talk to people online, with anonimity.

(Of course, I am talking about stuff like anxiety or depression here, not about when people hear voices or have hallucinations, of course those should seek proffesionals.)

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Like John said, though, if we had a universal healthcare system in this country, that really would solve so many of our problems. Maybe someday...*Sigh*

Eh, I wouldn't count on that. We have free public healthcare in Slovakia, but a lot of it is shitty and psychiatry has for a long time been cited as being the most neglected, with problems similar to those that John mentioned. I've recently read few articles about mental institutions for children, and some of it was stuff from nightmares, as if people running them had misunderstood them for juvenile prison or something. Again, I don't see how the mental state of patients can get better in such place, only how it can get worse.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

Again, I don't see how the mental state of patients can get better in such place, only how it can get worse.

Inherently, solving mental health issues is the most human resource intensive medical process. Every case is unique and takes time to diagnose correctly. Unfortunately, the Frasier Crane radio show format might end up being the future delivery model

[peeayebee]

Well, that was depressing. Where's Woebot when I need it.

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I also feel like this segment should be played on a loop the next time there's a mass shooting somewhere and the usual suspects come out with their typical, "It's clearly a mental health issue, people just need more mental healthcare and this won't happen!" response. Great! You (general "you") going to help fix all these problems highlighted here that make it hard for people to get that mental healthcare in the first place? 'Cause if not, then you need to sit down and shut up. 

Right. What IS their response when confronted with the fact that mental health care is difficult/impossible to obtain?

That televangelist ... Ugh. 

That walrus ... Awww. It reminded me of the video I just saw of the whale breeching on top of a boat.

[Lantern7]

*sigh*

I signed up for online therapy. I’ve gone three sessions with a very nice lady, and I’m thinking of ending it. FTR, I was thinking that before watching John’s piece. I’d get ready to at least talk to someone in my area (since going to an office would be impossible thanks to COVID), but apparently that might not happen for me either.

13 hours ago, Annber03 said:

...all right, well, I'm going to need a shower after watching those clips of that televangelist o___O. What in the...? 

12 hours ago, ahisma said:

What did I just SEE with that televangelist?!?! Unclean! Unclean! 

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

That televangelist ... Ugh. 

I feel the need to point out his PO Box number ended in “69.” I am VERY sorry for that. I’ve commented about the lack of censoring with segments like that, and I think that applies here.

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I feel the need to point out his PO Box number ended in “69.” I am VERY sorry for that. 

Okay, wow, that is somehow both incredibly appropriate and super creepy all at the same time. 

[peeayebee]

Yeah, like I said: That televangelist ... Ugh.

[Lugal]

I find a certain irony that John goes from local TV news people talking about what they would do if they won the lottery directly to mental health care.  I wonder if they made the connection when they were putting it together?  I would think millions of people trapped in jobs they hate, that oftentimes don't pay enough to live on to begin with could maybe be contributing to the mental health crisis?  Even people who don't hate their jobs, like presumably some of those local news anchors, would still be out the door tomorrow if they won.  It seems like there's a bigger picture here.

As for the televangelist...uh, yeah.

On 7/31/2022 at 9:02 PM, Annber03 said:

I also feel like this segment should be played on a loop the next time there's a mass shooting somewhere and the usual suspects come out with their typical, "It's clearly a mental health issue, people just need more mental healthcare and this won't happen!" response.

And immediately following is when the subset of those usual suspects with voting powers are then asked if they will vote to increase funding for mental health care, cue the usual: "Government sending is out of control!"

[Annber03]

9 minutes ago, Lugal said:

I find a certain irony that John goes from local TV news people talking about what they would do if they won the lottery directly to mental health care.  I wonder if they made the connection when they were putting it together?  I would think millions of people trapped in jobs they hate, that oftentimes don't pay enough to live on to begin with could maybe be contributing to the mental health crisis?  Even people who don't hate their jobs, like presumably some of those local news anchors, would still be out the door tomorrow if they won.  It seems like there's a bigger picture here.

This is an excellent point. I fully agree that this is a large part of the problem. People are overworked and overstressed and the pandemic's just further screwed with people's jobs in a lot of ways that's made it hard to adjust (and that's not counting the people who had to work jobs where they were harassed by people about masks or restrictions or things of that sort). We made a big to do about how "essential" so many workers are, but you sure wouldn't know it by the way they're being treated. 

Quote

And immediately following is when the subset of those usual suspects with voting powers are then asked if they will vote to increase funding for mental health care, cue the usual: "Government sending is out of control!"

Except when it comes to the military, of course. Boy, we have ALL the money in the world for the military. But education, healthcare, environmental issues, etc...somehow we just can't seem to, nor do we want to, cough up the dough. 

[izabella]

33 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Except when it comes to the military, of course. Boy, we have ALL the money in the world for the military. But education, healthcare, environmental issues, etc...somehow we just can't seem to, nor do we want to, cough up the dough. 

More specifically, we have all the money in the world for defense contractors and the entire manufacturing, financial, technology and consulting ecosystem around the military, but not for our enlisted personnel.  The foot soldiers we send out to wars who are exposed to burn pits, deadly chemicals have to fight in Congress for medical and mental health care.

Edited August 2, 2022 by izabella

[paigow]

31 minutes ago, izabella said:

The foot soldiers we send out to wars who are exposed to burn pits, deadly chemicals have to fight in Congress for medical and mental health care.

Besides Jon Stewart, Bill Maher frequently mentions the hypocrisy of Support The Troops mouthpieces... More like Support The War but the grunts are overpaid... 

[Lugal]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Except when it comes to the military, of course. Boy, we have ALL the money in the world for the military. But education, healthcare, environmental issues, etc...somehow we just can't seem to, nor do we want to, cough up the dough.

Whenever they need to bomb some country that most Americans can't find on a map, the money's always there.

1 hour ago, izabella said:

More specifically, we have all the money in the world for defense contractors and the entire manufacturing, financial, technology and consulting ecosystem around the military, but not for our enlisted personnel.  The foot soldiers we send out to wars who are exposed to burn pits, deadly chemicals have to fight in Congress for medical and mental health care.

Having a For Profit Military works about as well as having a For Profit Healthcare System.

[b2H]

Just to lend credence to the story told about the 14 year old that needed mental health care and spent 27 days in the ER, the same thing happened to my grandson, only it was *only* for two weeks until a bed was found for him in Connecticut.  He finally did a get a full time residential treatment program, which we had to pay ten grand upfront for, only to have the 90 day program he was registered for cut short at day 35 because the insurance company didn’t think he needed the treatment anymore.

We were lucky.  He was put in an outpatient school and, at 16, had his first school year ever where he ended with straight A’s and finally a stable medical profile.

Mental health in this country has no standing with anyone.  If it did, it would be fixed.

[Lantern7]

Rewatching the episode. Is it me, or does LIz Truss look like a character Amy Poehler would've played on SNL?

[andromeda331]

I really wish I could be surprised. Mental Heath Care is still such a mess. I love Foley destroying that idiot's words. He didn't think there was anyway the kid would still be alive. Ah, he would be if he was still being treated you idiot. I love how he started out saying he wasn't aware of any cases for rejecting or terminating treatment. Right because you never hear on the news of a person with mental issues killing someone or their whole families, or police being called on a person in the middle of a break down. 

[andromeda331]

On 8/2/2022 at 5:20 PM, izabella said:

More specifically, we have all the money in the world for defense contractors and the entire manufacturing, financial, technology and consulting ecosystem around the military, but not for our enlisted personnel.  The foot soldiers we send out to wars who are exposed to burn pits, deadly chemicals have to fight in Congress for medical and mental health care.

Yeah, like the millions of Vietnam Vets who have Agent Orange that the government still refuses to even admit to. Even thought the government was the one that sprayed it.  It also means scientists can't come up with better and better treatments for the Vets suffering from it. I know I really shouldn't be surprised. Except for WWII Vets ignoring and treating Veterans like crap has been the standard since the Revolution. Sorry, I'm a little bitter. I am so happy the soldiers are getting treatment for the burn pits. But what about all the other Vets?

[xaxat]

Farewell Freya.

Freya the walrus euthanised after troubling crowds in Oslo fjord

[Lantern7]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

Farewell Freya.

Freya the walrus euthanised after troubling crowds in Oslo fjord

Oh, fuck all the way off with that! She just wanted to rest. Like it was her fault people couldn’t move their boats?

[paigow]

18 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Oh, fuck all the way off with that! She just wanted to rest. Like it was her fault people couldn’t move their boats?

Playing the public safety / hazard card is the standard move... 

[Welshman in Ca]

42 minutes ago, paigow said:

Playing the public safety / hazard card is the standard move... 

Yeah, you know what is a public safety issue/hazard ? The fucking public that's who. I feel exactly the same every time one gets bitten by a shark,r gored by a buffalo or mauled by a bear, you're in their back yard not yours & they were there long before you so stop fucking whining that a buffalo ran at you.

[JustHereForFood]

19 hours ago, Welshman in Ca said:

Yeah, you know what is a public safety issue/hazard ? The fucking public that's who. I feel exactly the same every time one gets bitten by a shark,r gored by a buffalo or mauled by a bear, you're in their back yard not yours & they were there long before you so stop fucking whining that a buffalo ran at you.

Exactly. Just darwinism at work.

[ProudMary]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:39 AM, xaxat said:

Farewell Freya.

Freya the walrus euthanised after troubling crowds in Oslo fjord

I have a real issue with "euthanized" being used in this and every other Freya story. A deer who's been hit by a vehicle and is slowly and agonizingly dying by the side of the road is euthanized. A family pet who's been suffering for a long time and is "put to sleep" by a vet is euthanized. Freya was murdered. This was not a mercy killing and shouldn't be called euthanasia. 

[heatherchandler]

On 8/14/2022 at 10:39 AM, xaxat said:

Farewell Freya.

Freya the walrus euthanised after troubling crowds in Oslo fjord

This is fucking bullshit.  

[purist]

Australian cartoonist and national treasure First Dog on the Moon has done a wonderful cartoon in Guardian Australia about Freya's pointless death. 😭

[Lantern7]

Moving onto another direction: does anyone else get nervous that HBO/Discovery might cancel LWT in their quest to burn down their place for the insurance money? Great that John has a new "Business Daddy" to mock, but Daddy has been on a tear canceling shit . . . including Sam Bee's show on TBS.

[paigow]

14 hours ago, purist said:

Australian cartoonist and national treasure First Dog on the Moon has done a wonderful cartoon in Guardian Australia about Freya's pointless death. 😭

Can HBO arrange with A-Ha to write a protest song?

[Annber03]

44 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Moving onto another direction: does anyone else get nervous that HBO/Discovery might cancel LWT in their quest to burn down their place for the insurance money? Great that John has a new "Business Daddy" to mock, but Daddy has been on a tear canceling shit . . . including Sam Bee's show on TBS.

I've wondered about this a bit, too :(. I hope not! 

I was definitely waiting for/expecting John to make a joke about this new merger, though, and indeed, he did not disappoint :D. 

[andromeda331]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:59 AM, Welshman in Ca said:

Yeah, you know what is a public safety issue/hazard ? The fucking public that's who. I feel exactly the same every time one gets bitten by a shark,r gored by a buffalo or mauled by a bear, you're in their back yard not yours & they were there long before you so stop fucking whining that a buffalo ran at you.

I completely agree. 9 times out of 10 when a bear, mountain lion etc. attacks its because humans doing something stupid or getting too close to the wild animal. 

[ShadowKnight2]

14 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Moving onto another direction: does anyone else get nervous that HBO/Discovery might cancel LWT in their quest to burn down their place for the insurance money? Great that John has a new "Business Daddy" to mock, but Daddy has been on a tear canceling shit . . . including Sam Bee's show on TBS.

If HBO won’t cancel Bill Maher’s God awful show, they sure as shit ain’t gonna cancel John Oliver’s!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Folks,  Let's move any more discussion about the potential for cancellation to the media thread.  It was not a topic on the show. 

[lasu]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:02 AM, JustHereForFood said:

My father suffers from depression and I have seen how the medication he takes becomes less effective over time, so he has to take more of it, and how much of a problem it was when he had to switch to another or when he tried to stop taking it... it wasn't pretty. So, thanks, but I will rather feel depressed than become addicted to anything.

First, I'm sorry your dad isn't getting great treatment and I can certainly understand how frustrating it is to watch.  But please know that suffering from depression or being addicted aren't the only two options.  It can be really tough sometimes, which is especially daunting if you already have depression (depression and anxiety's entire goal seems to be to keep you depressed and anxious), but sometimes medicine can be wonderful.  I'll fully admit that I've been lucky that the very first anti-depressant I ever tried worked perfectly for me, and I know that's a rarity.  But my medicine doesn't give me a "buzz" or anything like that; it allows me to feel like myself.   My prescription has not become less effective in nearly 20 years (though I do increase my dosage in the winter months and drop it back down again in the spring).  I know you didn't say this, but many people see antidepressants as a crutch, but it's not.  It's a tool to use against depression, the same way insulin is a tool for diabetes.

I promise I don't mean this as a lecture, but we usually hear about people's bad experiences and it leads to so many people having negative opinions about and an unwillingness to try antidepressants - I just wanted to share it's not always like that.

[JustHereForFood]

10 hours ago, lasu said:

First, I'm sorry your dad isn't getting great treatment and I can certainly understand how frustrating it is to watch.  But please know that suffering from depression or being addicted aren't the only two options.  It can be really tough sometimes, which is especially daunting if you already have depression (depression and anxiety's entire goal seems to be to keep you depressed and anxious), but sometimes medicine can be wonderful.  I'll fully admit that I've been lucky that the very first anti-depressant I ever tried worked perfectly for me, and I know that's a rarity.  But my medicine doesn't give me a "buzz" or anything like that; it allows me to feel like myself.   My prescription has not become less effective in nearly 20 years (though I do increase my dosage in the winter months and drop it back down again in the spring).  I know you didn't say this, but many people see antidepressants as a crutch, but it's not.  It's a tool to use against depression, the same way insulin is a tool for diabetes.

I promise I don't mean this as a lecture, but we usually hear about people's bad experiences and it leads to so many people having negative opinions about and an unwillingness to try antidepressants - I just wanted to share it's not always like that.

Thank you, I get it. I didn't mean to be competely dismissive, apologies if it came out that way. If it works for people, great. I just think that sometimes doctors overprescribe meds even if they are not necessarily needed (see also the opioid crisis), when maybe other ways could work too, like identifying and eliminating the source of depression or anxiety. Of course, that isn't always possible and medication is needed in those cases, I get that.