S07.E15: Repo Man

[Demented Daisy]

Four years ago, Sam and Dean exorcised a demon serial killer. Now he's back for revenge.

 

 

I didn't get this episode.  It feels completely disjointed from every other episode of Supernatural.  Almost like a procedural cop show.  *shrug*

[DittyDotDot]

There are things I like about this episode and then there are things I also hate about it. I like that they finally tried to address the issue of how sometimes saving somebody doesn't mean they are better off and what these possessed people go through, but I didn't care for how it got resolved particularly. It does make me laugh that they tried to sell us on those flashbacks being back around S3...those sideburns were never so long in S3 and Jared wasn't quite that bulky either. But, I understand the constraints they were under, just makes me laugh a little.

Edited August 18, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

I don't know whether I like this episode or not.  I like the performance by the guest actor but I don't actually understand why the episode exists. Like now after all this time they care about what happened to the previously possessed?  And yes LOL at the really terrible attention to continuity with Jared's appearance. I can't help but think they could have told the same story but set it a year before when Jared's appearance was closer to what it is now.  Like why go back that far in time.  Peculiar episode is peculiar.

[DittyDotDot]

I think they had to go back to this time because I think they were trying to ask how it was more right that they tortured this guy instead of just exorcising the demon in their own attempt to find Lilith and to save Dean from Hell. They were so focused on their own goals and bigger matters they neglected to notice this one person.  In some ways they created this monster...he always had the potential, but never acted on it until after he was possessed and his body had been tortured. Even for years after the possession he did nothing until he hit rock bottom and decided to give in.That's the things I actually like about the episode, what I don't like is that nothing was learned or gained by it. In the end the guy was evil and they killed him and the demon, but they didn't really see where they maybe went wrong.

 

Plus, sweet little pooch got killed in the crossfire, just so wrong. ;)

Edited August 18, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[Demented Daisy]

I really don't get what this show has against dogs.

[AwesomO4000]

I think they had to go back to this time because I think they were trying to ask how it was more right that they tortured this guy instead of just exorcising the demon in their own attempt to find Lilith and to save Dean from Hell. They were so focused on their own goals and bigger matters they neglected to notice this one person.  In some ways they created this monster...he always had the potential, but never acted on it until after he was possessed and his body had been tortured. Even for years after the possession he did nothing until he hit rock bottom and decided to give in.That's the things I actually like about the episode, what I don't like is that nothing was learned or gained by it. In the end the guy was evil and they killed him and the demon, but they didn't really see where they maybe went wrong.

 

Plus, sweet little pooch got killed in the crossfire, just so wrong. ;)

 

I like all of the things you mentioned here, and I agree that I would've liked maybe a discussion on what it meant and what they learned - it appeared Dean was too tired and/or numb to think about it at that point though - but despite that: I was surprised on rewatch how I liked this episode even more after this 3rd or 4th viewing. In part that's because - warning: one of my own theories coming up - I think that the potential guilt was part of what went wrong with Sam here. (More on that in a moment.)

 

I really enjoyed the look into Sam's hallucinations here and what might have been going on in Sam's head that we only got glimpses of earlier due to Jared's subtle acting choices and hints that maybe he was sometimes seeing things that weren't there. If this is the kind of thing Sam had been seeing all season, it's impressive that he was able to hold himself together for as long as he did, in my opinion. But back to the guilt - I think it was the unfinished business and the potential guilt that started making things worse for Sam here. For one, it made the case that much more personal, and two it appeared to be something he was potentially trying to bury - and this relates to my theory.

 

It's interesting that it is Hallucifer who remembers the police detective's name, but Sam either doesn't want to believe him or doesn't want to acknowledge that he remembers, and it is Hallucifer who starts to put the pieces together on the case and gets Sam to strong arm Nora (the woman whose son Jeffrey kidnapped) to get the information he needs. This could be saying one of two things - or both - Sam didn't want to dig too deeply at first into the real solution to this case, because of his and Dean's involvement in how it turned out or part of Sam's hunter instincts/abilities are routed in the things he wanted to "put under the umbrella" of his Lucifer hallucinations and the things he did as Soulless Sam. But both are associated with guilt and once Sam, in his need to solve the case, started acknowledging them and the things he'd buried under that Hallucination umbrella and compartmentalized away, the harder it became for him to keep those things buried/compartmentalized and the truth/guilt wouldn't be buried any more and started to drive him really insane... "Yeah, look at that. Something's definitely different now, isn't it? You let me in. You wanted me, partner." Sam could no longer deny the devil inside himself, and I think that guilt ate at him.

 

Maybe that's reading more into this episode than is there, but the subtle clues I caught on this rewatch - like Sam listening to Hallucifer to threaten Nora to get the information, and it being Hallucifer part of Sam who found the important pieces of the puzzle of the case - seemed to point in this direction for me. And if this was intended, then this episode was a lot more clever/deep than I first gave it credit for. And so despite my quibble that nothing was really learned and the depressing message that no good deed goes unpunished - ironic that part of the reason Jeffrey went ahead with the murders and didn't kill himself was because his therapist was good and helped him decide he could live up to his "potential." (Apparently not good enough to figure out that he was crazy though). - I decided that I really liked this episode.

 

One other thing I liked: Jeffrey's creepy description of how - and supposedly why - he chose his victims and the dawning realization from Dean, hearing Jeffrey talk about it, that Jeffrey was crazy.

 

So I was surprised to find that I enjoyed this episode in this rewatch more than I thought I would and saw some things I didn't catch or didn't click into place for me the first few times I saw it.

Edited August 18, 2014 by AwesomO4000

[DittyDotDot]

It's been so long since I've watched it, I had totally forgotten about Sam's hellucinations here. See that Edlund fellow does scratch below the surface from time to time and sometimes it takes me a couple of watches to see the nuances of what he was getting at.

Edited August 18, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[mertensia]

The only thing that bothers me about this episode is where in the world did the Devil's Trap come from? Bobby?

I did like the twist that Jeffrey actually liked being possessed- I didn't see that coming.

[DittyDotDot]

I assumed Sam and that lady made the devil's trap...kinda like how Dean made that one for Ruby back in No Rest For The Wicked. Although, I do get your meaning and it is a little incredulous that they made it without being detected.

 

I've been thinking about this episode more and more over the last couple of days, now I'm kinda looking forward to getting there on the rewatch and see how it holds up.

[rue721]

"Yeah, look at that. Something's definitely different now, isn't it? You let me in. You wanted me, partner." Sam could no longer deny the devil inside himself, and I think that guilt ate at him.

 

And so despite my quibble that nothing was really learned and the depressing message that no good deed goes unpunished - ironic that part of the reason Jeffrey went ahead with the murders and didn't kill himself was because his therapist was good and helped him decide he could live up to his "potential." (Apparently not good enough to figure out that he was crazy though).

 

In some ways they created this monster...he always had the potential, but never acted on it until after he was possessed and his body had been tortured. Even for years after the possession he did nothing until he hit rock bottom and decided to give in.That's the things I actually like about the episode, what I don't like is that nothing was learned or gained by it. In the end the guy was evil and they killed him and the demon, but they didn't really see where they maybe went wrong.

 

I like this episode, but that's probably because I see Jeffrey and his relationship to the demon that possessed him as a parallel for Sam and his relationship with Lucifer/Hellucifer -- so I enjoy it a lot in a character-study kind of way.

 

Jeffrey's story, it seemed to me, was that he'd been tormented by this demon and even OK'ed the Winchesters' torture (of himself) for "the greater good," but once the demon was out, he was still marked. How he told it, it sounded to me like he kept reliving what had happened, and couldn't escape from it, and his life fell apart, and it got to a point where he just wanted to be back in that time again/possessed again rather than to be trapped forever in a shadow version of that time but now alone, weakened and pulling his own strings. Sam's backstory with Lucifer was similar imo:  he had also given Lucifer permission to use him as a vessel and had gone into the cage for the greater good. I also think that Jeffrey and Sam's stories were aligned in the present day, too, though -- albeit, with Jeffrey a bit further along (I think that was the reason for the dichotomous timelines).

 

I thought Jeffrey's story of trying to call the demon back, and trying to live like he had when the demon was possessing him, and basically trying to become the demon, was analogous to Sam's story of Lucifer worming his way back into his head, and Lucifer telling Sam that he was in his head because Sam had wanted him there, and that Sam wanted him there because Lucifer helped Sam to be as good/strong as he needed to be in order to do what he needed to do. Like when Hellucifer guided Sam through the hunt, starting with just reminding him of the detective's name, and then telling him what to look for in the investigation, and then showing him how to get what he wanted from Nora -- that was Lucifer convincing Sam that Sam needed him, Lucifer convincing Sam that Sam couldn't get by *without* Lucifer anymore, imo. Or rather, Sam convincing *himself* of that via Hellucifer. Like, Sam's own strength had been used up and all that was left in him that was strong was Hellucifer. So if Sam wanted to be strong, he had to be/embody Hellucifer. (I don't think that was the reality, that the only strong part left is the torturer/Hellucifer that Lucifer created inside of Sam by tormenting him, I think that's what Sam was feeling/fearing). 

 

The most horrible part imo was when Jeffrey did get the demon back, but it went into someone new and began dancing with him, and said that he didn't need to be in Jeffrey anymore, because Jeffrey was a star pupil already -- that was just like at the end with Sam, imo, when Lucifer told Sam that he was inside him, Lucifer didn't even need to torture Sam anymore and Sam didn't even need to be in Hell anymore, because Sam would torture himself and put himself into Hell just fine all on his own, because he's also Lucifer's a star pupil. And then Sam's bed lit up in flames. *Shudder.*

 

Obviously, I love these kinds of stories. This is exactly why I liked Dean's arc with Lisa and Ben in S6, though of course that was much more down to earth. The part of that arc that I'm talking about specifically is how (imo) Dean did genuinely *want* to be in that family and that life, but he kept looking for signs of monsters and kept pouring salt everywhere, moving Lisa and Ben around to keep them safe, etc etc etc -- he was taking care of them/raising Ben just like he'd been taken care of/raised, *despite himself.* He categorically *didn't* want to do that. He and Soulless Sam even had that discussion explicitly -- I think it was in the episode where they're taking care of the shifter baby? They're sitting in the motel room, and Dean is having a drink and saying how he's liking being with Lisa and Ben and it's going pretty well, and SSam lists all these things Dean's doing that are ordinary to the Winchesters but strange to "normal" people (i.e., moving Lisa and Ben around, keeping them on lockdown, etc), and says flat out that it sounds like Dean is behaving just like John. And Dean doesn't say anything, he looks upset about it, and iIrc (though I'm not 100% sure), that's the same episode in which Dean and Lisa have that talk where he gets upset while he's trying to tell her that he wants to be able to live "normally" and doesn't mean to be acting this way, and they decide to make it long distance (though then in the next scene, they have some kind of guitar riffs playing and Dean looking happy while reuniting with Baby, so who knows what the tone is supposed to be).

 

My point is, I feel like both the Lisa and Ben struggle that Dean faced and the Hellucifer struggle that Sam is facing in this episode (and the demon possession struggle that Jeffrey is facing) is the struggle of basically conditioning yourself to deal with a horrible circumstance, a nightmare (!), convincing yourself that it's for the best (or the greater good) that you're in that nightmare, and then finally being getting *out* of that nightmare, and into the circumstances that you've *wanted* for so long, your dream (!!!), but then flailing and despairing and shooting yourself in the foot, because as great as that dream is, you don't know how to live in it. You only know how to live in the nightmare. And you maybe even turn the dream into the nightmare (against your own will, betraying yourself) because it's like you can't help yourself, it's all you know.

 

That's a pretty dark interpretation, maybe? But I liked how the show dealt/deals with the problem of "home" in general, it's my favorite thing about it. The idea of home being a nightmare but still being *home* is what I'm talking about w/r/t this episode. I also like the constant facsimiles of home/heimlich that this show does. Like, for the guys, "home" is a generic motel and "home cooking" is diner food, so they can be at home and eat their home cooking virtually anywhere -- but also nowhere. There's not going to be any place that's "their" motel or "their" diner, or even "their" home. It also used to irritate me how Mary was just *constantly* appearing on this show, because I thought it was cheap/gimmicky. But I've come around to it, because I like how it's *never* really her, it's just some facsimile of her -- a ghost of her, a monster wearing her skin, a hallucination, a copy from memory, etc. When they go back in time and it really is supposedly Mary Winchester née Campbell --  even then, it's not *their mother,* though, she's not really a mother yet when they've gone back in time and seen her in the past, because they aren't born yet. The show reenforces that it's not "their mother," too -- the show doesn't even use the same actress, even though "young Mary" and "not young Mary" are like 4-6 years apart or something in terms of the timeline. So I like how they are constantly seeing Mary, but since she's died, afaik, they've never actually seen *their (real) mother.*

 

OK, done bloviating. I feel like at this point I should be passing a joint around and asking you guys, "hear what I'm saying?"

 

ETA:  *some* clarity. At least a smidge more clarity.

Edited December 8, 2014 by rue721

[DittyDotDot]

I agree that this episode feels somewhat out of synch with Supernatural, but on re-watch I find I like this episode more than I remembered. At least they're trying to take the issue of torture seriously for once and I enjoy Lucifer taunting Sam. The idea that Lucifer was always there, but it wasn't actually Lucifer just Sam's own mind playing tricks on him is interesting to me. And I find it interesting that once Sam engages him he can't just pretend he doesn't exist again.

 

Some good performances from the guest cast here also. Both Jeffery and the demon-possessed guy are great and I really like the cop at the top of the episode. It's a small bit part, but sometimes it's the littlest details that get me attached.

 

In general, I'm not opposed to a sidestep once in a while as long as Sam and Dean feel like Sam and Dean I can go with it. It also doesn't hurt if the sidestep is well written. I wouldn't put this one at the top of my list or anything, but it's not at the bottom either.

[Demented Daisy]

I tried watching this on one TNT today, but as soon as I saw the dog, I thought, "Nope.  Can't watch it."  Changed the channel.

 

I'm a whackadoo, I know, but I feel so emotionally manipulated by this episode.  He could have just picked up a dog off-screen, but no.  He has to adopt it and take care of it -- and it has to be absolutely adorable.

 

Bastards.

 

(Full disclosure -- my dog is not doing so well at the moment, so I admit that I'm not being totally objective right now.  Sorry.)

[Iguana]

Yeah, the sacrifice of the dog makes this ep almost impossible for me to watch, too.  I hope your dog gets better soon, DD.

[Demented Daisy]

Thanks, Iguana.

[Goldmoon]

Just saw this for the first time today.  I LOVE dogs- I work at adoption events for a rescue- and was dreading something happening to the poor little mite.  I will give them props for killing the dog offscreen and without blood.  It could have been much more gory, and Dean even called him a sick SOB at that point.  The dog was the line that was crossed for Dean, in other words.  I really liked this ep in spite of the dog sacrifice.  I never expected the saved guy to be the bad guy.  They surprised me.  That doesn't happen too often.  I also liked Luci's attempts to get attention from Sam.

[GirlyGeek]

Interesting episode. It did feel like an episode of Criminal Minds at some points, kinda Supernatural adjacent. But Sam and Dean were in character, so that's not a big deal.

I liked seeing Hallucifer and seeing what Sam is going through. And I like how they're showing that Sam was keeping Hallucifer away by ignoring and not engaging with him, but now that he's let him in/asked him for help/partnered with him, now he's having trouble making the distinction again and hell is taking over.

It would have been great to see Hallucifer all season, even if he was just talking to Sam and causing periphery weirdness, but I get why they couldn't have MP for the whole season. Still, would have been fun and would have helped the viewer to know what was going on with Sam. As it was there was quite a stretch of episodes where we didn't see into Sam's noggin at all, except for the subtle things, so it was easy to forget about.

Oh, and I'm a cat person. Violence, like toward the dog, in general, just doesn't shock me anymore anyway.

Which should probably be disturbing. Lol

[AwesomO4000]

I saw half of this episode yesterday (had to get to work, so didn't see the second half), and it reminded me of how creepy and interesting I found this episode was. For me, seeing Sam's hallucinations was truly creepy, and it was fascinating what "Lucifer" remembered and what that said to me about the nature of Sam's psyche. And just what he was trying to bury or ignore and how that burying affected his ability to solve the case. In a way it was good that Dean still had optimism that Jeffrey was and did turn things around. And likely Sam, too, wouldn't have figured it out except for the part of him - Hallucifer - that he was trying to ignore/bury, and only by acknowledging that part of him and letting it out was he able to figure it out... but at what cost?

 

For me, the episode was an interesting look into what accepting those dark parts of you means, and how easy it can be to let that darkness take over.  And it was so ironic that the counselor was able to help Jeffrey, but in "helping" it mainly helped him to accept that he missed the demon and enjoyed the killing even if at first he didn't like it. And as GirlyGeek above said, the episode really surprised me with what happened and really made me think. So, kudos there, and all in all I think this episode deserves more credit than it usually gets.

 

It makes me miss Ben Edlund even more, because these kinds of themes I think would've been fascinating to explore with Dean

and the effects of his having been a demon now that there is no immediacy of the mark of Cain to think about. Would he miss that "freedom" that being a demon gave him and how would the memories of what he did as a demon affect his psyche?

[Diane]

So this is where I am at in my rewatch and all I can think about is that Jared's side burns could have had their own show.

[Diane]

So this is where I am at in my rewatch and all I can think about is that Jared's side burns could have had their own show.

So my son and I are doing another re watch this time jointly.  He is the one that got me into the show.  I stand by my earlier comment, he even made a comment on it.  This episode was sad and very dark.

[DittyDotDot]

So, I'm finally getting back to my rewatch and I got to wondering if this episode is a reaction to the flack the show gets for Sam and Dean using Ruby's knife to kill demons rather than exorcising them and saving the host? In this case, exorcising the demon did not save anyone and if they'd had Ruby's knife back in S3, killing the demon and the host would've been what saved the most people. There's really a lot of layers this episode works on. I think I appreciate it more every time I see it. 

The other thing I was thinking about, S7 seems to be working on the theme, "Nothing in our lives is simple" that was stated back in The Girl Next Door. 

On 3/15/2015 at 4:01 PM, GirlyGeek said:

It would have been great to see Hallucifer all season, even if he was just talking to Sam and causing periphery weirdness, but I get why they couldn't have MP for the whole season. Still, would have been fun and would have helped the viewer to know what was going on with Sam. As it was there was quite a stretch of episodes where we didn't see into Sam's noggin at all, except for the subtle things, so it was easy to forget about.

I was thinking this same exact thing when watching it this time. What's happening inside of Jared's mind is something that actually is frightening to me. I find the jump scares and the gore fairly laughable on this show, but when they push into the psychological horror--like not knowing what's real--it takes it to a different level for me.

[Hanahope]

Other than getting Lucifer back into Sam's head, I didn't see the point of this episode, and really didn't like the dog bit. I think getting Lucifer to be more active could have been done another way.

[bettername2come]

I like that Detective Sutton actually caught on to their drummer aliases, even if he did assume it was coincidence. Mark Pellegrino gets a lot of good lines in this one. I generally prefer the Hellucinations to the main storyline of the episode The actor who played Jeffrey was good.  I would've liked to see a good guy version of the screwed up post-possession victim, who actually did help with the case of the week. As awful as I feel for the dog, on the bright side, dog actress was a very good girl who did her job well and really made me feel empathy for the character. And I always like that Dean cares about animals, so there's a plus. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I remember this one being a lot more interesting the first time through.  I can't figure out the purpose of Wiccan in the first go round: I know she helped track the demon originally, but was she the one who first 'found' the demon by the attacks and alerted the Winchesters?  How did she get a hold of the Winchesters?  And why didn't Sam and Dean apparently keep any copies of her spell book?  Seems like it would have come in handy a time or two.  I did think it was fitting that the demon would rather possess a different person and try to corrupt their soul than go back into Jeffrey who was already corrupted.  That's so very demony of them.  :)  Demons were actually kind of scary and unstable and unpredictable - which made them scarier - before they became suit wearing admin assistants. 

Still hate that they killed the dog.  At least it was off screen. 

After the last few episodes with no Halluciferations, it was rather jarring for him to pop back up in Sam's head.  I'm not watching as fast as I did the first time though, but even then I'd almost forgotten about Lucifer in Sam's head as I did this time too.  And to be honest, this time through I could have done without him this ep.  Except for The Born Again Identity, which I like, I would have been fine if the Halluciferations had just faded from the storyline like Sam's scar on his hand. 

[Iju]

i....don't think i saw this episode. i'll watch and come back later lol

[Lunula]

Wow. Misogyny much? First we have a, “I smell menopause” joke about a woman who is not that old and then continual fat jokes about women. Seriously, Supernatural? I expect better from you.

The episode pretty much sucked anyway and when I realized that the guy was evil and that the dog would die, I turned it off.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Lunula

[The Companion]

On 3/15/2015 at 4:01 PM, GirlyGeek said:

Interesting episode. It did feel like an episode of Criminal Minds at some points, kinda Supernatural adjacent. But Sam and Dean were in character, so that's not a big deal.

I liked seeing Hallucifer and seeing what Sam is going through. And I like how they're showing that Sam was keeping Hallucifer away by ignoring and not engaging with him, but now that he's let him in/asked him for help/partnered with him, now he's having trouble making the distinction again and hell is taking over.

It would have been great to see Hallucifer all season, even if he was just talking to Sam and causing periphery weirdness, but I get why they couldn't have MP for the whole season. Still, would have been fun and would have helped the viewer to know what was going on with Sam. As it was there was quite a stretch of episodes where we didn't see into Sam's noggin at all, except for the subtle things, so it was easy to forget about.

Oh, and I'm a cat person. Violence, like toward the dog, in general, just doesn't shock me anymore anyway.

Which should probably be disturbing. Lol

Personally, I am glad we didn't get hallucinations all season because I am not a huge fan of them. It made BSG unwatchable for me to constantly have a hallucination talking. I can see how they could have played with it, but I suspect it would have driven me crazy.

It does feel like killing a dog is lazy shorthand for evil. Still upsets me every time (though so did the eaten cat head). Then again, I would probably say the same thing about kid zombies. Lol.

On 7/31/2017 at 9:43 PM, bettername2come said:

I like that Detective Sutton actually caught on to their drummer aliases, even if he did assume it was coincidence. Mark Pellegrino gets a lot of good lines in this one. I generally prefer the Hellucinations to the main storyline of the episode The actor who played Jeffrey was good.  I would've liked to see a good guy version of the screwed up post-possession victim, who actually did help with the case of the week. As awful as I feel for the dog, on the bright side, dog actress was a very good girl who did her job well and really made me feel empathy for the character. And I always like that Dean cares about animals, so there's a plus. 

A very good girl. 

I am torn on this one. I like the concept but thought it lacked something in execution. It also felt strangely placed for some reason. It didn't flow well for me. That may be a function of binge watching. 

[Scout Finch]

Totally skipped this episode during re-watch because: dog.

[rhofmovalley]

On 7/31/2017 at 7:43 PM, bettername2come said:

dog actress was a very good girl who did her job well

I thought it was adorable how she picked up her cone and carried it with her. Like "won't I be needing this?" Unfortunately the next part was horrifying.

I do believe the show was trying to illustrate that anyone who hurts animals is evil. I don't see it as the writers hating dogs.