Motive - General Discussion

[Trey]

I checked out youtube for this episode - got lots of results for Bad Blonde but not a one was the Motive episode:)

[Bort]

I only just now got around to watching this episode but it's ones like this that makes me want to know the outcome of the trial. Because every piece of evidence they have goes back to Gordon. And in the last scene, the best they could get Heather to admit was that he'd do anything for her and clean up her messes. Basically, a good lawyer can probably get her out of all of it because they've got NOTHING. Not even a confession.

Edited July 6, 2014 by kariyaki

[shapeshifter]

I only just now got around to watching this episode but it's ones like this that makes me want to know the outcome of the trial. Because every piece of evidence they have goes back to Gordon. And in the last scene, the best they could get Heather to admit was that he'd do anything for her and clean up her messes. Basically, a good lawyer can probably get her out of all it because they've not NOTHING. Not even a confession.

This episode could easily have been the basis for a 10 or 13 episode miniseries a là True Detective or Fargo, but with a courtroom component. I wonder if Murder in the First (currently airing Mondays) will get to the courtroom. Edited July 6, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Neurochick]

This episode made me wonder if Gordon was sabotaging her other relationships.  I think their relationship was like this:  Gordon was in love with Heather but knew Heather would never give him the time of day; Heather knew Gordon was in love with her but she kept him in the "friend zone" and Gordon knew that.  So  Gordon decided to sabotage all Heather's relationships in the hope that one day she would admit that he was her true love, the music would swell, the end.  

[shapeshifter]

While I'm glad Callum Keith Rennie got a few more lines, I did not like the plot resolution of him screwing up Smoking Man's life insurance by spilling the plan to the detectives and surviving his suicide to spend his life in prison. I wish instead Flynn and Vega had found him too late and pieced together the plot, but without enough evidence for a murder conspiracy for the insurance company to deny the claim. Angie threw us a bone with her line about not being in a hurry to notify the insurance company, but that just delays settlement.

Edited July 10, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Mama No Life]

I thought it was Vega's father's wedding?

 

This ep felt out of order or something.  The whole "Angie sharing info with Vega after he needles her about keeping secrets" seems like it should have happened earlier.

 

The case was compelling though...felt so bad for both men, but esp the EMT.  

[Trey]

 

This ep felt out of order or something.  The whole "Angie sharing info with Vega after he needles her about keeping secrets" seems like it should have happened earlier.

 

I thought so too.  And did anyone catch what that file was all about?  It was something to do with Cross shooting, or not shooting, someone.  Vega said that Cross did it according to regulations but that it didn't make things better for Angie.  I don't know what they were talking about. 

 

Re the EMT, I too was hoping he wouldn't survive, because that's how he wanted it.  Can the insurance company refuse to pay out?  Since the victim did die from a parachute jump accident after all.

[yeswedo]

 

I thought it was Vega's father's wedding?

 

Description has been fixed, thanks!

[Grammaeryn]

I thought so too.  And did anyone catch what that file was all about?  It was something to do with Cross shooting, or not shooting, someone.  Vega said that Cross did it according to regulations but that it didn't make things better for Angie.  I don't know what they were talking about. 

 

On re-watch with closed captions, the file was about a shooting both Angie and Cross were involved in when they were rookies. I have a couple theories:

 

1. The shooting didn't go down as reported and either Cross or Angie are covering for each other.

2. The reason Cross and Angie got involved was just dealing with the emotional fallout from the shooting (kinda mimicking the PTSD story).

[St. Claire]

The insurance company probably can't deny the claim if the parachute fall is classified as murder (which it wasn't, really, it was assisted suicide). If it's suicide, life insurance won't pay out. So, it's correct that he died from the fall, but it was neither an accident nor a murder. It seems that the findings of the death as being manslaughter would be easy to put through; it was manslaughter, and the life insurance company has no need to know the details of why EMT guy committed the manslaughter.

[shapeshifter]

The insurance company probably can't deny the claim if the parachute fall is classified as murder (which it wasn't, really, it was assisted suicide). If it's suicide, life insurance won't pay out. So, it's correct that he died from the fall, but it was neither an accident nor a murder. It seems that the findings of the death as being manslaughter would be easy to put through; it was manslaughter, and the life insurance company has no need to know the details of why EMT guy committed the manslaughter.

CKR's character told Flynn and Vega that the "victim" taking a drink of the liquor was their pre-arranged signal to go through with it. Are they obligated to share that? It could help the case of the guy who survived the overdose, but it would probably also void the insurance claim.

[St. Claire]

I'm thinking that Flynn and Vega are only obligated to verify to the insurance company that the insured's death was the result of manslaughter, but not the details about how the act of killing him was enacted.  Sure, the insured actually was complicit in his own death. But isn't he also somewhat complicit in his own death if he signs the waiver that says skydiving may result in death, but still decides to skydive and his chute really does malfunction? Would the insurance company be able to deny payment then?

[shapeshifter]

But isn't he also somewhat complicit in his own death if he signs the waiver that says skydiving may result in death, but still decides to skydive and his chute really does malfunction? Would the insurance company be able to deny payment then?

Now that you mention it, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the fine print on most life insurance policies say deaths resulting from certain risky activities (sky diving being one) are not covered.

[izabella]

Now that you mention it, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the fine print on most life insurance policies say deaths resulting from certain risky activities (sky diving being one) are not covered.

 

I think that's correct.  However, the wife told them that they had bought insurance for no matter what happened when he embarked on his bucket list.  At least, I think that's what I heard her say.

[Kris117]

Yes, that's how I heard it. 

 

I've only just started watching this show, and I've been enjoying it. It's a different way to approach the procedural format. They managed to mislead me during this episode, because I thought that the dying guy was going to be the one who caused the car accident that the paramedic was obsessed with. This was a good twist to that.

 

After watching a few episodes, I have one burning question: why do they turn the makeup gun up to Stun when they do Kristin Lehman and Lauren Holly's faces? Flynn looked as if she had less makeup on for Vega's dad's wedding than she did for hanging around the job.  Detectives are always glammed up for TV, but most shows manage to use a lot of makeup to make the women look natural. Flynn and Rogers look more suited for working a cosmetic counter. 

[vera charles]

why do they turn the makeup gun up to Stun when they do Kristin Lehman and Lauren Holly's faces?

 

I think in the case of Lauren Holly's character, it's supposed to show that she is a glamour-puss, party girl in her off hours. Every now and then, they drop in a little dialogue about her boyfriends, but we never really hear much more about her life outside work. The Betty character looks so different from how Lauren Holly usually looks, it has to be completely on purpose. Betty looks so much like a co-worker of mine, who dresses and applies makeup in much the same way. When I pointed the resemblance out to another co-worker, she had to stop and think about it for a moment, then she started laughing. She said the whole time she's been watching, she knew Betty reminded her of someone, but she thought it was a character on a different show or some other actress, but she could not place who it was. It never dawned on her that it was our mutual co-worker.

Edited July 14, 2014 by vera charles

[shapeshifter]

Interesting plot twist, but Peter had so many other options.

I'm not sure I want to here about the past bad shoot coverup.

And I hope Lucas' marriage gets back on track so Sung can have a relationship with a real boy.

[basiltherat]

At least Peter did it for a "good" reason instead of merely stealing from his "patient".  I feel sorry for the mother, who gave away the good son and created the little monster who wasn't going to willingly donate his kidney for his own damn mother.  Although it does seem to prove she was a bad mother and Peter was better off without her.  The cases on this show are never cut-and-dried.

[Bort]

I figured out the long lost son angle but thought it was about the money and was sympathizing with the victim until the reveal that it was all to save the mom. That other son was a turd.

Pretty interested in Angie and Cross's big secret. Lucas's sucky marriage? Not so much.

[Trey]

 

Although it does seem to prove she was a bad mother and Peter was better off without her.

I don't think she was a bad mother; he was a bad son.  But when you are helping out your kids you have to know where the line is between helping and enabling.  I don't think she found the line until too late. 

 

I did not see the twist coming.  Peter seemed to be such a jerk at times too that I was surprised he killed the other son just to save his mother - it was very easy to believe he was just trying to get her money.  But once we did find out he was the son given up for adoption, I thought it was very touching that he put his own picture in the locket too. 

 

We just don't know enough about Lucas and his marriage for me to be very interested in it falling apart.  But I am looking forward to seeing how this shooting investigation is going to work out.

[Bort]

I don't think she was a bad mother; he was a bad son.  But when you are helping out your kids you have to know where the line is between helping and enabling.  I don't think she found the line until too late. 

Early in the episode, the mom admitted that she'd spoiled Turd Son. I don't necessarily think she was a bad mother either but he might've turned out differently if she hadn't made such a mistake overindulging him most of his life.

[Trey]

Yep, the line between helping and enabling apparently came when he was about five:)

[shapeshifter]

Early in the episode, the mom admitted that she'd spoiled Turd Son. I don't necessarily think she was a bad mother either but he might've turned out differently if she hadn't made such a mistake overindulging him most of his life.

IIRC, she said "we" spoiled him, and that when his father died, she tried to turn it around and make him assume responsibility. So, since the two sons likely had two fathers, and if it was the late husband who dictated the spoiling, I guess the conclusion is that now-dead son had a bad father (nature and/or nurture) and live son had a good father (bio and/or adoptive). Of course, IRL, not so simple.

[Trey]

I have just realized that the episode titles are all movie titles too, mostly, but not all, film noir movies.

[Grammaeryn]

The killer was Billy from BSG and the random girl interviewed about identity theft is Dillon's daughter from Continuum. I love Canada's small casting pool so I can play "Hey it's that guy"

[AlwaysWatching]

Trey: I did not see the twist coming.  Peter seemed to be such a jerk at times too that I was surprised he killed the other son just to save his mother - it was very easy to believe he was just trying to get her money.  But once we did find out he was the son given up for adoption, I thought it was very touching that he put his own picture in the locket too.

 

 For some reason I thought I was the only person who watched Motive.  Good to see other fans.

I was all ready for the nurse to be a true bad guy. The actor had that I'm a bad guy look down perfectly.  Very nice twist.

 

This episode bothered me more than it should because I have the exact same disease the mother has in the show. I just call it PKD and I'm fifth stage (out of five) and I'm living on fumes. I'm also AB-.   It upset me that they didn't mention why dialysis wouldn't work for her.  I'm getting set up for that right now and I guess I'm still not sure I can handle dialysis.  Hmmm. I was on a transplant list for two and half years, but they took me off because I kept myself too healthy. ???  Maybe that's what this character did and she waited too long. I don't condone murder of even scumbags for their kidneys, but I'm glad she got one.

 

I've noticed that everytime I think Motive looks a bit boring, they always pull out an interesting ending.  It's one of those summer shows I always watch.

 

edited for found errors

Edited July 20, 2014 by AlwaysWatching

[Trey]

 

I'm getting set up for that right now and I guess I'm still not sure I can handle dialysis.

I wish you all the best with dialysis (and PKD) and I know you can handle it - it isn't fun but it keeps you going.  I was on dialysis for two years (lucky enough to get a transplant from unknown donor in 2009) and I sure didn't love it but it certainly beat the alternative.

 

I loved My Name is Earl but one episode made me so angry I could never watch it again - it was one with Joy's mother (played by Brett Butler, which didn't help) who had a gambling problem but claimed to be on dialysis and needed $100 just every now and then for a 'treatment'.  That pissed me off so much!

 

Anyhow, to be on topic, this is a good show and I wish more people would post here.  But I think there's more posting here now than over at the old place so perhaps more will come.

[AlwaysWatching]

Thanks Trey and I'm so glad you received a transplant! You give me hope. :-)  I think I had stopped watching My Name is Earl by the time the episode you mentioned came on. Just have to remember that particular show was totally crazy. I liked it a lot, it just got lost in my shuffling of programs.

 

I'll stick to Motive topic now and say that the one reason I like it so much is the believable banter between the two leads.  Almost as good as Castle.

 

Again, really great to know you are doing well.

[shapeshifter]

Thanks Trey and I'm so glad you received a transplant! You give me hope. :-)  I think I had stopped watching My Name is Earl by the time the episode you mentioned came on. Just have to remember that particular show was totally crazy. I liked it a lot, it just got lost in my shuffling of programs.

 

I'll stick to Motive topic now and say that the one reason I like it so much is the believable banter between the two leads.  Almost as good as Castle.

 

Again, really great to know you are doing well.

There's also what these boards call a "Small Talk" thread if you want to continue sharing other common interests. If you are using the My Favorites feature, it's a little trickier to navigate to other pages in a topic--especially if you have health problems that are sapping energy and causing discomfort. The one for this board is here: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/6040-small-talk-whats-your-motivation/

I'm going to post something more on this off-topic topic there. :)

[Bort]

This one was pretty cut and dried. I figured out the motive angle fairly quickly and there were no twists this time. Zoe De Grand Maison (Sasha) has been on Orphan Black this season in a recurring role, she seems to be very good.

Little by little we're getting more info about Angie and Cross. Drunken info this time, which was fun to watch. This is all going to come to a head in the finale, I'm sure.

[Mama No Life]

Vega is such a simmering stew of hot that I can barely stand it. Whew.

This show is doing too good of a job making me sympathize with murderers! I don't need the moral confusion people!

Gracie was pretty good. Where do I know the mother from? I remember her harpy voice from somewhere else but can't place it offhand.

Starting to become interested in this Cross/Angie shooting....one of them obviously shot the guy before he shot. Cross?

[irisheyes]

Gracie was pretty good. Where do I know the mother from? I remember her harpy voice from somewhere else but can't place it offhand.

 

 

The actress's name is Jennifer Irwin.  Here's her IMDB page.

[Dagny]

I was watching it this morning and had to stop because a person with all of that hair shouldn't be in the kitchen. It should be pulled back or under a net, definitely not draped over her shoulders. I'll continue later, but REALLY! No wonder the business was going down hill, hair in the food.

[Trey]

I was watching it this morning and had to stop because a person with all of that hair shouldn't be in the kitchen. It should be pulled back or under a net, definitely not draped over her shoulders. I'll continue later, but REALLY! No wonder the business was going down hill, hair in the food.

LOL  I kept waiting for someone to tell her to wear a hairnet or at least pull her hair back. 

 

I thought she killed Barb just to release Jason from her overbearing grasp, didn't see the baby situation until they laid it out.  But setting the fire was really bad - if Barb had died from hitting her head that was one thing but setting the fire made it murder and took away my sympathy from Sasha.  This was another episode that I had a hard time following the time line. 

 

Re the food truck, I thought there were laws preventing them from parking right outside a restaurant?  Or maybe that's just in some cities.

 

 

Vega is such a simmering stew of hot that I can barely stand it. Whew.

I wonder when Angie is going to realize it. Not that I need to see a romance between them.  Maybe at the end of the series it would be okay.

 

I agree, it was probably Cross who shot the man before he shot at them which is why Angie doesn't want to testify on his behalf.  Who was the man she was asking for advice?  Was that her former boss?

[tomorrowgirl]

As usual, I'm behind in my dvr viewings, so I just saw this episode.  I wondered about the lethal drug that Peter injected into the victim's IV.  Wouldn't that affect the organs in the body that they were using for transplant?

[shapeshifter]

But setting the fire was really bad - if Barb had died from hitting her head that was one thing but setting the fire made it murder and took away my sympathy from Sasha.

But if Barb survived...

Two tragedies collided to make a baby. If Sasha made any other decisions, the tragedy would have continued for another generation. I'm not condoning what she did, it's just that the murder, ironically, prevented another tragedy.

Vega is such a simmering stew of hot that I can barely stand it. Whew.

I wonder when Angie is going to realize it. Not that I need to see a romance between them.  Maybe at the end of the series it would be okay.

Other shows that plan to put to people together romantically could take lessons here. If it happens, it will be believeable.

[Grammaeryn]

I agree, it was probably Cross who shot the man before he shot at them which is why Angie doesn't want to testify on his behalf.  Who was the man she was asking for advice?  Was that her former boss?

 

She was talking to Travis from Liber8 (Continuum joke, the guy's EVERYWHERE). Yup, that was her former boss.

[Neurochick]

I felt for Sasha. Barb was evil, no doubt about it, there probably was no other way she could be stopped. A tragedy all around. If Barb had lived, she would have destroyed another generation.

[torqy]

She was talking to Travis from Liber8 (Continuum joke, the guy's EVERYWHERE). Yup, that was her former boss.

Agent Curtis Manning from "24." Shot by Jack Bauer.

[shapeshifter]

She was talking to Travis from Liber8 (Continuum joke, the guy's EVERYWHERE). Yup, that was her former boss.

Yes, actor Roger Cross does seem to be on every show I watch lately. I love his voice, although the accent he used on Orphan Black was nearly indecipherable. I'm hoping Angie's ex-partner/new boss goes away and we get Old Boss back, but if he got a promotion when he stopped being boss, that's not possible, is it?

[basiltherat]

It's confusing on the show when they talk about "Cross" meaning Angie's NEW boss/ex-partner/ex-lover because I think of Roger Cross who plays the old boss who seems to be a much nicer guy.  Yeah, Vega is cool and I don't really like heavily-bearded men, but he seems like a teddy bear with simmering hotness just below the surface.  Plus, he has a sense of humor which is always attractive!  He must really be comfortable in his skin in playing second-fiddle to Angie.

[alias1]

That's the one thing I don't like about the show, that Vega is always playing second fiddle to Angie.  Being partners is a little one sided.  Apparently she's the really smart one.  I find her too smug sometimes.

[shapeshifter]

That's the one thing I don't like about the show, that Vega is always playing second fiddle to Angie. 

That was my complaint all last season. It's a little better this season.

[theatremouse]

I don't understand the current "character witness" plot, but possibly it's because I'm not familiar with Canadian laws? (or maybe even laws in general) Or possibly I'm not following the plot all the way. It seems to me, when she and he were partners, this was several years ago? Right? Like, a lot of years ago? I don't remember an exact number or if I just invented in my head the time difference, but I thought it was something like 10 years. In the meantime, it was strongly implied she had zero contact with him, right? And now he's her direct superior, but has only been back for what seems like a handful of months on the show. So, in what universe is she the only-and-best possible character witness that seven convictions hang in the balance. Shouldn't they want someone who has known him for a longer continuous amount of time? Like, consistently for 2-3 years? And shouldn't she be a bad candidate because of their past relationship that prosecutor made very clear she knows about?Plus since he's her direct superior currently, shouldn't that rule her out because she could feel pressure to say good things? And if she is really the only person the prosecutor can find to be a character witness for him, doesn't that sort of reflect poorly on him in the first place?

 

I mean, I know this plot's whole purpose is oooh dark secret coming from the past but it's extra contrived with a side of, sorry I can't ignore that. It's distractingly bad and I like the show otherwise.

Edited July 26, 2014 by theatremouse

[Mama No Life]

The actress's name is Jennifer Irwin.  Here's her IMDB page.

Ah thanks! She was the sister-in-law on Still Standing....

[yeswedo]

 

While investigating the death of a man trampled by his horse, Flynn and Vega suspect homicide; Vega explains his concerns; Angie is confronted by prosecutor Samantha Turner.

 

Original US air date July 30, 2014

[theatremouse]

I thought they said he used potassium chloride? It just stops the heart; it's not something that would contaminate the organs, I don't think. Apparently it's sometimes used in heart surgeries on purpose to make the heart temporarily stop beating? Especially since I think the son character was already having heart issues from being zapped earlier, probably didn't take much to kill him either.

[Trey]

I just checked it out - this is Episode 10; there's three more after this one.

[shapeshifter]

Is there any way she can get off on self defense? She had every reason to think he would try to kill her again, and her boss wouldn't give her back her passport, which I don't think she needs to get into Mexico, but probably would need to get back into El Salvador. Or do people with expired Visas not get court appointed attorneys to defend them of murder? Heck, she could even say she wanted to go back when her Visa was up, but the rich witch wouldn't give her back her passport. If she tried to use the attempts to break into the safe to prove she was trying to get her passport, boss lady would claim she was just after whatever valuables were in the safe, and I doubt the daughter's word would carry weight.

Slightly OT: The guy who played the murderer looked almost exactly like my high school boyfriend who died 15 years after he got back from Vietnam, except my bf's ears didn't stick out at all. They must at least be from the same place in Mexico.

[Mama No Life]

Loved Vega going in to talk to Cross and give him shit.

Swoooooonnnnnn