S07.E10: Death's Door

[Demented Daisy]

While Sam and Dean stand vigil at the hospital, a wounded Bobby fights a battle in his own splintered mind.

 

 

I know it's an UO, but I still love Bobby.  I almost gave up on the show after this episode.

[catrox14]

i have to say, I really don't care for this episode.  I dunno, it's a bit too treacly for SPN and yes I know that sounds crazy because Dean cries all the damn time. Dean freaking out on the donor doctor guy didn't ring true to me. Like I think he would have yelled and said ," No we don't need to talk about this" but to stand there and tell him to "Walk away from me" just after punching the wall past his head? Eh I dunno that was just too much. Dean would walk away before telling someone else to do it. Weird.

 

And I have to be honest by the time he died I was pretty tired of Bobby. He had become Bobby ex Machina.  Bleh.  but RIP Bobby

[AwesomO4000]

Not as enjoyable for me as Sera's first episode of the season, but I liked the parts in Bobby's head especially, and I always love seeing Rufus (who was Sera's "baby" so to speak, so she generally writes him well). As usual, I like the interplay between Bobby and Rufus, even if in this case it was a Rufus in Bobby's head. It was good that Sera finally wrote an episode where Rufus and Bobby "interact" (her other Rufus episodes were Rufus interacting with other characters, usually Dean and/or Jo).

 

I liked the trip through Bobby's head, even though it was pretty heavy, and the details weren't very pretty. I loved the Dean and Sam argue about the movies and snacks scene - and I agree with Sam: licorice is gross. I'd much rather eat the peanut butter and banana sandwich. Hee.

 

So there were good and bad things here for me, but it did make me cry, and there are only a handful of Supernatural episodes that did that for me, so kudos there.

[DittyDotDot]

This one is a love/hate for me. As an individual episode, it's pretty damn well done; as a part of the whole, pretty much sucks. I do love Bobby--even when I hate how they present him as dues ex machine and foster daddy--I still love him. I was seriously shocked that they did have him die in the end, I was sure they wouldn't have him be dead by the next episode. I actually wanted him to be dead at the end Hello Cruel World. Not because I wanted him gone per se, but I thought they needed to do it in order to set the boys after the Leviathans for real.  And also, I felt it that's what the story required at that point. This stripping everything away from the boys so they ended back up where they were at the start would have worked much better if they hadn't kept taking things away just to give them back later when the writing started to get too hard. I don't want to start using spoiler tags and I should get back to this episode, but look forward to more on that later.

 

The concept of this episode is interesting and I like Bobby's backstory here It's rather astonishing to me that it works so well retroactively--not the part about Bobby throwing a ball around with Dean, but the parts of Bobby's childhood. I also love Rufus and I love Bobby and Rufus together, so that alone makes the episode worth watching. I love the way Bobby see's Sam and Dean in his head and I love how he saved them for last, too. I'm really glad that Gamble decided to write this one herself (too bad they gave it to Singer to direct, though). These alternate universe type episodes are where Gamble usually excels in my eyes. She has a knack for finding those little moments to connect it to the "real" universe and she sets up the narrative in a clever enough fashion that I don't get bored with the concept or feel like she gets so caught up in her own idea that it doesn't make sense in the end. I know I give her a lot of grief for being preachy, so I thought I should also give her some kudos when it's warranted.  I should also give Jim Beaver some praise, he pulls out a wonderful performance here, as always.

 

It's really is a shame that what comes after casts a shadow on this episode, it could have been one of their very best otherwise.

[Amerilla]

I just saw this a couple weeks ago, so my impressions are fairly new, but in general, this was one of my S7 faves.

 

Abusive father = no children of his own = becoming a father felt a bit too on the nose, and I thought having Mrs. Bobby possessed right after this fight seemed unnecessary. That's the sort of disappoinment in a marriage that can fester for years, and it would have better fit with other dips we've taken in Mrs Bobby's possession/death. I don't expect 100% continuity in any long-running show, simply because the writers can't anticipate in Season C what they might need in Season X, but here it just felt like Sara didn't trust the audience would "get" that Bobby had become the boys' father if she didn't extend the foothold in their lives much further into their pasts. Overall, though, I think it was a really fantastic outing for, in this case, J3.

 

Jim  is always good, but here he just blew the doors off. The logical, no-bulls**t approach he and Rufus use to try to work his way back to life was pure Bobby. I could use "this is when you learn that they pretty much never say 'thanks'" as a ringtone. The love and pride he injected in "as fate would have it, I adopted two boys, and they grew up great. They grew up heroes," got to the emotional core of the character, even if you have to side-eye the way the script got him there. 

And his inability to accept the Reaper's assurance that the boys would be fine was a good set-up for what happens in the remainder of S7.

 

It was a great choice to have Sam and Dean be relatively passive players in the episode. It kept the focus on Bobby's story, which it needed to be, but they still got to show some chops. The fact that they weren't spinning around trying to find some way to stop showed how much they've come to rely on Bobby and what his impending loss meant to their lives.

 

Jensen was hampered a bit by having to do Dean's standard "rail against the dying of the light" routine, but that's not to say he didn't do it well. No matter how many times I've seen him look over at Sam and flip that internal switch to "suck it up and take care of baby brother" mode, I'm always touched by it. Which makes me perhaps the World's Biggest Sap, but whatever. Jared, I thought, did a wonderful job. Sam spends a good part of the episode physically gripping on to walls and chairs, like we do when we're waiting for the emotional foundation to crumble from under our feet. I didn't notice until after we were discussing the "The Mentalists" that him pressing on his scar indicates that here, too, Hallucifer was pouring horrific things into his ear.

[DittyDotDot]

Jared, I thought, did a wonderful job. Sam spends a good part of the episode physically gripping on to walls and chairs, like we do when we're waiting for the emotional foundation to crumble from under our feet. I didn't notice until after we were discussing the "The Mentalists" that him pressing on his scar indicates that here, too, Hallucifer was pouring horrific things into his ear.

 

I think S7 might be some of Jared's best work. He really was very subtle with that hand scar thing and, like you said, gripping things and trying to hold on to reality while everything keeps being yanked out from under him. I tend to gravitate more to what Jensen does onscreen, but S7 reminds me that Jared can do more when he's given more than being "evil" to work with.

[catrox14]

I always took Sam pushing on his scar as an act to remind himself that all of what was happening with Bobby was real and not one of his Hallucifer-ations(?). Or that maybe by pushing on the scar, the pain would not be real and Bobby's death was the Halluciferation.  I dunno. 

[rue721]

Dean freaking out on the donor doctor guy didn't ring true to me. Like I think he would have yelled and said ," No we don't need to talk about this" but to stand there and tell him to "Walk away from me" just after punching the wall past his head? Eh I dunno that was just too much. Dean would walk away before telling someone else to do it. Weird.

 

I agree, that was probably the worst scene of the episode because it was just so OTT that it became kind of silly/a parody. I mean seriously, acting like a drama queen out of love for *Bobby,* of all people? He would have been so irritated to see Dean acting like that and would have called him out on it ffs. And I get that Dean was upset, but people just don't do things like punch through a glass sign in the middle of a hospital corridor really. Also, we've actually seen Dean in particular react to quite a few deaths, and he's never been a drama queen like that about it, so it feels OOC, too. He's always acted more like people do usually act, and seemed subdued and kind of shocked/zoned/preoccupied. I mostly blame the direction, because I think the dialogue would have been basically fine without the weird "is Dean about to mug this doctor?" blocking, the glass-shattering punch, and how hideous yet boring that corridor looked. Since one of my favorite scenes in the whole series is when Bobby tries to get Dean to take care of Sam's corpse (at the end of S2), I doubt that the responsibility for the scene going so overboard rests on JA's shoulders -- he can obviously act the hell out of a death/mourning scene. Even within this scene of Dean talking to the doctor about organ donation, though, I felt like the mini rant that Bobby would be OK because "he always is" did hit home -- that was JA bringing it imo, because the dialogue itself was kind of hackneyed and god knows the direction wasn't helping in general.

 

I did think that the scene when Bobby dies was very touching. When Sam was awkwardly holding onto Bobby's hand and saying thank you, that really got to me. Seriously nice acting, imo, especially since those kinds of heavy scenes aren't generally JP's strong suit. I agree with the person above who said this was probably his best season in terms of acting, I think he does a great job throughout the season overall, and I think this in particular was a great moment and great episode for him. I also liked the choice to have Bobby focused on getting those numbers written down in that scene, and the inclusion of that whole little flurry of activity as the guys tried to find a way for him to write. It kept the moment unsentimental enough to keep it feeling grounded, imo, which made it hit harder.

 

The concept of this episode is interesting and I like Bobby's backstory here It's rather astonishing to me that it works so well retroactively--not the part about Bobby throwing a ball around with Dean, but the parts of Bobby's childhood. I also love Rufus and I love Bobby and Rufus together, so that alone makes the episode worth watching. I love the way Bobby see's Sam and Dean in his head and I love how he saved them for last, too. I'm really glad that Gamble decided to write this one herself (too bad they gave it to Singer to direct, though). These alternate universe type episodes are where Gamble usually excels in my eyes. She has a knack for finding those little moments to connect it to the "real" universe and she sets up the narrative in a clever enough fashion that I don't get bored with the concept or feel like she gets so caught up in her own idea that it doesn't make sense in the end. I know I give her a lot of grief for being preachy, so I thought I should also give her some kudos when it's warranted.  I should also give Jim Beaver some praise, he pulls out a wonderful performance here, as always.

 

I agree, I'm shocked at how well the trip through Bobby's head worked. I don't even like Bobby! But it was so great seeing Rufus again, and I liked that Bobby was desperate for him to come along on his trips down memory lane, because he needed his partner's help with this one. Their relationship was always very interesting and fun. Seeing that he was the person that Bobby immediately wanted to get to and ask for help also made me think again of the already-powerful (imo) moments of Rufus saying he was never going to forgive Bobby, and of (possessed!)Bobby stabbing him through the heart, and made both of those into even bigger gut-punches in retrospect (because it made Bobby's betrayal even sadder and worse). I also would have just waved off the "abusive dad" scenes as schlocky before actually seeing them, but I thought that they ended up carrying a lot more oomph than expected, too. The mom really made those scenes imo. I didn't love the memories of Sam and Dean, but I was probably never going to give those a fair shake anyway, because I have always found the idea of Bobby being their "father" irritating and contrived.

 

Anyway, I really liked that the memories that Bobby focused on were, for the most part, human rather than supernatural, and about people rather than events. Especially the choice to focus on a fight between Bobby and his wife, instead of anything to do with her possession. That focus balanced out the trippy concept of going into someone's mind as he dies very well, imo. I also liked that they bothered to give Bobby an actual mission (to find the "door" out) and a plot-based reason for why Bobby would revisit horrible memories. In general, I thought the script was well constructed, so the "spell" of going into this strange world, i.e., Bobby's head, was never broken via hiccups in the script's mechanics -- I think that helped the episode to pack as much of a punch as possible, too. Much more than I would have expected, tbh, given that it was about the death of a character who I didn't personally care much about anyway.

[DittyDotDot]

I agree, that was probably the worst scene of the episode because it was just so OTT that it became kind of silly/a parody. I mean seriously, acting like a drama queen out of love for *Bobby,* of all people? He would have been so irritated to see Dean acting like that and would have called him out on it ffs. And I get that Dean was upset, but people just don't do things like punch through a glass sign in the middle of a hospital corridor really. Also, we've actually seen Dean in particular react to quite a few deaths, and he's never been a drama queen like that about it, so it feels OOC, too.

 

I don't know, I didn't think it was really so far fetched. The entire season has been the slow stripping away of everything Dean holds dear and this is one more thing being taken away. There's only so many things Dean can stuff down before they come out in spurts of violence and alcoholism. Maybe they pushed it too far with the glass punching, but I totally believe Dean would be this hung up over Bobby dying. I still remember watching How To Win Friends And Influence Monsters the first time. I was kinda gob smacked to see Bobby actually get shot in the head and remember sitting on my couch wondering how Dean was going to survive losing Bobby after all the other losses they were taking that year.

[rue721]

I don't know, I didn't think it was really so far fetched. The entire season has been the slow stripping away of everything Dean holds dear and this is one more thing being taken away. There's only so many things Dean can stuff down before they come out in spurts of violence and alcoholism. Maybe they pushed it too far with the glass punching, but I totally believe Dean would be this hung up over Bobby dying. I still remember watching How To Win Friends And Influence Monsters the first time. I was kinda gob smacked to see Bobby actually get shot in the head and remember sitting on my couch wondering how Dean was going to survive losing Bobby after all the other losses they were taking that year.

 

I can believe that Dean would be crushed by the death, but I thought that was such a theatrical reaction to it. Tbh, I think a better setup for that scene would have been to show the moment when Dean decides he's going to go to talk to the doctor alone, since Sam is already not doing so well (and that would have given us a chance to see more of Sam's reaction, too), but then when Dean's actually talking to the doctor all alone and the doctor brings up organ donation, Dean realizes it's too much for him to handle, too. And imo JA could have shown that realization on his face perfectly fine, that's right in his wheelhouse, no need for theatrics like punching through a sign. But you know, I always like when the show chooses to err on the side of going small rather than going big.

 

Though I will say that even when the doctor came to ask if they were next of kin, I was already hoping that either they both or just Sam would go, because Dean was starting to get edgy. The show did *try* to sell Dean's emotional arc throughout the episode as best it could. I just still couldn't quite buy that that (punching the sign and yelling) would be Dean's reaction. Some people can just start reacting (emotionally) when something terrible happens, but Dean in particular has gone into shock/shut down mode every other time that someone has died or even whenever major shit has started going down, that's even how he described his reaction to Sam going into the pit at the end of S5 (when he first went to Lisa's). And it's not like he doesn't have a good handle at keeping a cool head under stress anyway. So that he started flipping out so early and recklessly this time it seemed slightly OOC to me. Not enough to be some BIG! HUGE! PROBLEM! but enough for me to feel like it felt "off" and to feel puzzled rather than (or at least as well as) empathetic as the scene was unfolding.

 

Idk, my only real issue with the episode is w/r/t the guys' reactions to Bobby's death not hitting home right. As good as a lot of Bobby's death scene was imo, it also bothered me that they didn't even really give Dean a reaction shot as Sam was saying goodbye, nor did they have Dean say his own goodbye really -- obviously that was a big moment for both of them, and I didn't really want to just see the back of Dean's head for the vast majority of it.

 

Anyway, this is SUPER nitpicky and I don't mean to be like that. This episode definitely exceeded my expectations, I thought it was overall very good.

 

In terms of Dean's state of mind overall, yeah, I do think he's running on empty. It's hard to tell what's different now, though, because he's been more or less depressed since getting back from hell. I feel like in S4 he came back angry, and then in S5 that deadened into numbness, but then in S6 he kind of found himself/his humanity again, and now in S7 he's still that (new-ish) self, but hardened. That doesn't seem like a *terrible* place to be, relatively speaking? But I haven't been watching the season in order, so that's probably messed with my ability to chart his progression. Also, other than Bobby and Cas, what else has been stripped away? Sam's more or less a wreck, I guess, but I'm not really sure how that's affecting Dean tbh (not that it isn't, I just don't really get what his perspective is on that).

[DittyDotDot]

Idk, my only real issue with the episode is w/r/t the guys' reactions to Bobby's death not hitting home right. As good as a lot of Bobby's death scene was imo, it also bothered me that they didn't even really give Dean a reaction shot as Sam was saying goodbye, nor did they have Dean say his own goodbye really -- obviously that was a big moment for both of them, and I didn't really want to just see the back of Dean's head for the vast majority of it.

 

I think, Dean wasn't willing to say goodbye yet. Sam had already come to terms that this was happening and took the moment to say goodbye. But Dean wasn't there yet. That's why he got all testy with the organ donor guy--I don't think he was a doctor, just the guy that comes and talks to the family about organ donation and gets their signatures. To Dean, this guy was telling him to give up on Bobby and come to peace with the eventuality of the situation, I don't think Dean was ready to do that. I thought the final shot of the episode is Dean's reaction, is it not? I'm not quite there on my re-watch yet, so I might be remembering it wrong. I mostly just remember thinking how heartbreaking it was because it mirrored John's final scene, but I thought it was a slow move in on Dean with Sam kinda in the background as the heart monitor flatlined.  

 

In terms of Dean's state of mind overall, yeah, I do think he's running on empty. It's hard to tell what's different now, though, because he's been more or less depressed since getting back from hell. I feel like in S4 he came back angry, and then in S5 that deadened into numbness, but then in S6 he kind of found himself/his humanity again, and now in S7 he's still that (new-ish) self, but hardened. That doesn't seem like a *terrible* place to be, relatively speaking? But I haven't been watching the season in order, so that's probably messed with my ability to chart his progression. Also, other than Bobby and Cas, what else has been stripped away? Sam's more or less a wreck, I guess, but I'm not really sure how that's affecting Dean tbh (not that it isn't, I just don't really get what his perspective is on that).

 

Cass was the first and a biggie, IMO; then Sam went a little coo coo for Cocoa Puffs and even though he seems to be holding it together at this point, Dean's still waiting for the other shoe to drop and Sam to drop dead from his Hell pain; Bobby's house got torched which was their home base for years; everywhere they go its cold showers and non-functioning bathrooms instead of motel rooms; Baby got sidelined, this alone would've made me want to punch a wall if I was Dean; and now Bobby.

[7kstar]

I think, Dean wasn't willing to say goodbye yet. Sam had already come to terms that this was happening and took the moment to say goodbye. But Dean wasn't there yet. That's why he got all testy with the organ donor guy--I don't think he was a doctor, just the guy that comes and talks to the family about organ donation and gets their signatures. To Dean, this guy was telling him to give up on Bobby and come to peace with the eventuality of the situation, I don't think Dean was ready to do that. I thought the final shot of the episode is Dean's reaction, is it not? I'm not quite there on my re-watch yet, so I might be remembering it wrong. I mostly just remember thinking how heartbreaking it was because it mirrored John's final scene, but I thought it was a slow move in on Dean with Sam kinda in the background as the heart monitor flatlined.  

 

 

Cass was the first and a biggie, IMO; then Sam went a little coo coo for Cocoa Puffs and even though he seems to be holding it together at this point, Dean's still waiting for the other shoe to drop and Sam to drop dead from his Hell pain; Bobby's house got torched which was their home base for years; everywhere they go its cold showers and non-functioning bathrooms instead of motel rooms; Baby got sidelined, this alone would've made me want to punch a wall if I was Dean; and now Bobby.

Actually, I do get it and it wasn't Out of Character for me.  When Bobby tries to get Dean to burn Sam to move on, Dean yells at Bobby.  Before this Dean had called Bobby and told him if you're gone, I hope not, because I'm barely holding on and I'll drive my Beautiful Brother off a cliff.  So for Dean he was losing it, he didn't have anyone else to help out and he was drinking pretty hard at this point.

 

Also I've watched quiet kids, reach the breaking point and suddenly start screaming and throwing things down which is out of character for them when they get upset.  So I just took this as Dean was past the threshold of what he could handle and reacted.

 

Sam is being the realistic one at this point and preparing himself for the hard time and Dean is looking for anything to keep it from happening.

 

If they hadn't brought Bobby back I don't think it would have the negative effect that some are feeling. JMV

 

So I do think it is a very strong ep for this season and it was a really nice way to send Bobby off, if they had to kill him off.  Personally I didn't have a problem with him seeing himself as the boys father figure, that doesn't mean that the Boys did and Dean had yelled at Bobby in Season 5 I believe that "you're not my father" so it did tie into Bobby's image.  I think as the years went on, Bobby had become a substitute father for Dean, but that still doesn't mean he takes John's place in Dean's life.  Dean loved John, and he loved Bobby.  He needed both of them.  If that makes any sense.

Edited December 6, 2014 by 7kstar

[catrox14]

I think Bobby became the father-figure after John died.  But I really do loathe what I believe is a retcon that Bobby was more important in the boys life before John died. There were no hints at all during the show that he was essentially a foster dad to the boys and that they spent way more time with him than was ever hinted at. Bobby teaching them to track as hunters? Oh heck no, that's also a retcon IMO. 

 

Dean saying Bobby was the closest thing to a father was true for Dean after John died but I do not believe it was true for Dean whilst John was alive. No way in heck.  I really find it difficult to believe that John and Bobby fought about taking care of them either.  And if the line of "Dad would dump us on you whenever he had a hunt" was true, then it really undermines Dean being the one that essentially raised Sam. 
 

I

Edited December 6, 2014 by catrox14

[7kstar]

Some lines just don't hold a lot of weight for me.  Dad would dump us on you whenever he had a hunt, obviously wasn't totally true, because we saw times when the boys were left on their own. 

 

I guess I give the example of how each one of us in a situation would see it differently.  Real example for me, we were robbed, at least 4 of us were involved in the bank holdup, I saw 2 guns, the person next to me saw 0, and the other two only saw 1. 

 

This is how life is, we each have our own interpretation of what happened, but that doesn't mean that Dean and Bobby saw eye to eye or that Bobby was with them all the time.  It could be a few times he did take them in, or maybe when they were too young to be left on their own, Bobby helped out more.  Does that mean that Dean didn't really help raise Sam, I don't think so.

 

I know I helped out my mom raising my younger siblings, but their memory might not agree with that.  When they got older I had moved out, so the times I really helped out, they might not even remember that.  That is how I see Bobby, he has memories that maybe the boys don't focus on.

 

The last memory wasn't the boys being young, but them being grown men.  So he tossed the ball once with Dean, we don't have Dean saying they tossed the ball all the time.  I can see it being a rare thing and a very special memory for Bobby, but it doesn't mean that Bobby did it everyday.  JMV,

 

I never got tired of Bobby.  I still liked him and wished he hadn't been killed off.

[rue721]

Actually, I do get it and it wasn't Out of Character for me.  When Bobby tries to get Dean to burn Sam to move on, Dean yells at Bobby.  Before this Dean had called Bobby and told him if you're gone, I hope not, because I'm barely holding on and I'll drive my Beautiful Brother off a cliff.  So for Dean he was losing it, he didn't have anyone else to help out and he was drinking pretty hard at this point.

 

Also I've watched quiet kids, reach the breaking point and suddenly start screaming and throwing things down which is out of character for them when they get upset.  So I just took this as Dean was past the threshold of what he could handle and reacted.

 

Sam is being the realistic one at this point and preparing himself for the hard time and Dean is looking for anything to keep it from happening.

 

YMMV, but I didn't find either the yelling at Bobby over Sam's corpse or the phone call telling Bobby he'd better not be dead to be a loss of control nearly on par with the sign punching and snarling at the organ donation guy to get away. I think it was the "get away from me" line that really put it over the top for me. If Dean had just punched the sign, took a second (or god forbid apologized -- which is what he'd usually done when he lost it in the past, as far as I remember), and walked out of the hospital, I think it would have felt different. Still not in character imo, but at least more reasonably close. And also, it wouldn't have made me wonder about where hospital security is and whether Dean would be let back into the building, which is what I was thinking about when he had that confrontation with Dick right after, but y'know.

 

Anyway, I have certainly seen people lose it, but not angrily like that when they're in the moment of facing a shock that big/horrible. And Dean in particular has always gone into shut down mode after something really major like that, and even seemed

to be in shut down/numb-this-please! mode again just in the next episode.

Personally, this is just my view, but I think it would have had more impact if they'd just let us feel what Dean was feeling by showing us JA's face as his heart broke and not dressed up the scene with punching/yelling/etc.

 

The show would probably never do this out of fear it would make Dean look less macho, but if they wanted to go "big" with the scene, I think that it would have been more realistic for Dean's instinctive physical reaction to be to feel sick to the point of throwing up rather than to feel enraged to the point of throwing punches and making threats. Rage doesn't come until after shock/horror/terror imo. But you know, that's not exactly cinematic.

 

Maybe Sam was being more realistic, but I got the feeling that he was overwhelmed and floating about a million miles away, struggling/trying to stay tethered to what was happening. He was very quiet and passive for pretty much the whole episode, who knows what was going on inside him. That said, I think that JP did an especially good job in this episode, I don't mean that he seemed blank in a "bad acting" kind of way. Usually JP goes way too over the top in trying to show that Sam is freaking out, and I thought underplaying it like this was much more effective. But of course I would say that! I just finished wishing the script had allowed JA/Dean to underplay it more, lol.

 

I think Bobby became the father-figure after John died.  But I really do loathe what I believe is a retcon that Bobby was more important in the boys life before John died. There were no hints at all during the show that he was essentially a foster dad to the boys and that they spent way more time with him than was ever hinted at. Bobby teaching them to track as hunters? Oh heck no, that's also a retcon IMO. 

 

Dean saying Bobby was the closest thing to a father was true for Dean after John died but I do not believe it was true for Dean whilst John was alive. No way in heck.  I really find it difficult to believe that John and Bobby fought about taking care of them either.  And if the line of "Dad would dump us on you whenever he had a hunt" was true, then it really undermines Dean being the one that essentially raised Sam. 

 

I agree that it felt like a retcon. Tbh the way the show pushed the idea that Bobby was basically Dad II *so hard,* was largely what turned me off Bobby as a character in the first place. Not that nobody can have a father figure, but...meh, it's not that easy. If fathers were that replaceable, the world would probably be a much better place. I also felt like there was a whole Sanctification of Bobby going on around that time. In this episode, it's all about Bobby playing catch with some totally random gloves he got from somewhere and preschooler!Sam nowhere in sight, and just an episode or two previously, it's all about Bobby teaching the guys everything they know about tracking. So he basically taught them *everything,* including regular kid stuff and hunting stuff? It's not even that those individual things are so unbelievable, what bothered me was that it just seemed like the show was trying *so hard* to prop the character. But YMMV, I never warmed up to Bobby anyway.

[catrox14]

YMMV, but I didn't find either the yelling at Bobby over Sam's corpse or the phone call telling Bobby he'd better not be dead to be a loss of control nearly on par with the sign punching and snarling at the organ donation guy to get away. I think it was the "get away from me" line that really put it over the top for me. If Dean had just punched the sign, took a second (or god forbid apologized -- which is what he'd usually done when he lost it in the past, as far as I remember), and walked out of the hospital, I think it would have felt different. Still not in character imo, but at least more reasonably close. And also, it wouldn't have made me wonder about where hospital security is and whether Dean would be let back into the building, which is what I was thinking about when he had that confrontation with Dick right after, but y'know.

 

Anyway, I have certainly seen people lose it, but not angrily like that when they're in the moment of facing a shock that big/horrible. And Dean in particular has always gone into shut down mode after something really major like that, and even seemed

to be in shut down/numb-this-please! mode again just in the next episode.

Personally, this is just my view, but I think it would have had more impact if they'd just let us feel what Dean was feeling by showing us JA's face as his heart broke and not dressed up the scene with punching/yelling/etc.

 

The show would probably never do this out of fear it would make Dean look less macho, but if they wanted to go "big" with the scene, I think that it would have been more realistic for Dean's instinctive physical reaction to be to feel sick to the point of throwing up rather than to feel enraged to the point of throwing punches and making threats. Rage doesn't come until after shock/horror/terror imo. But you know, that's not exactly cinematic.

 

Maybe Sam was being more realistic, but I got the feeling that he was overwhelmed and floating about a million miles away, struggling/trying to stay tethered to what was happening. He was very quiet and passive for pretty much the whole episode, who knows what was going on inside him. That said, I think that JP did an especially good job in this episode, I don't mean that he seemed blank in a "bad acting" kind of way. Usually JP goes way too over the top in trying to show that Sam is freaking out, and I thought underplaying it like this was much more effective. But of course I would say that! I just finished wishing the script had allowed JA/Dean to underplay it more, lol.

 

 

I agree that it felt like a retcon. Tbh the way the show pushed the idea that Bobby was basically Dad II *so hard,* was largely what turned me off Bobby as a character in the first place. Not that nobody can have a father figure, but...meh, it's not that easy. If fathers were that replaceable, the world would probably be a much better place. I also felt like there was a whole Sanctification of Bobby going on around that time. In this episode, it's all about Bobby playing catch with some totally random gloves he got from somewhere and preschooler!Sam nowhere in sight, and just an episode or two previously, it's all about Bobby teaching the guys everything they know about tracking. So he basically taught them *everything,* including regular kid stuff and hunting stuff? It's not even that those individual things are so unbelievable, what bothered me was that it just seemed like the show was trying *so hard* to prop the character. But YMMV, I never warmed up to Bobby anyway.

 

 

This is why I soured on Bobby as well. Especially when you think about how Bobby was really kind of an asshole to Dean much of the time especially in s4 and s5. I realize it was juxtaposing Bobby's terrible childhood and explained why he didn't have children because he thought he would be as bad a Dad as his father.  I think it would have been less treacly and more effective to think that Bobby became the surrogate father only in their later years with little foundation from their childhood.  It would have been a chosen family as adults and wouldn't have had to further destroy John's characterization to do it. 

 

For me, one of the most moving and tragic moments of the series was  in Lazarus Rising when Dean came back from Hell and told Bobby he was the closest thing he had to a father as proof that Dean was himself. To me, Dean placing that kind of importance on Bobby spoke volumes about Dean's state of mind back then. I thought it came from an organic place in what Dean needed to believe in vs what was necessarily fact about their relationship.  And this idea that Bobby was always there lessens that moment for me. YMMV

 

I am not really one to defend John Winchester but to be fair, I thought John was considered one of the best hunters in the world and he taught the boys to hunt  which surely involved tracking, no? So I really balk at Dean saying Bobby taught them everything they knew about tracking. Nope.  That's a retcon to elevate Bobby's importance.

Edited December 7, 2014 by catrox14

[7kstar]

There are some Bobby moments I choose to ignore and I still Like John because I ignore some of the stuff they gave him later.  Since every writer has written some really bad WTF moments, I feel I can ignore it.  JMV

 

I would say Bobby was more a father figure after John died than before.  But I myself have a sort of close relationship with my nephews and we don't see each other very often but when we do get together we always get along and make each other smile. 

 

So I guess that is just what I see about Bobby, that every once in awhile he saw the boys and helped them get better at something, but that doesn't mean that John wasn't there much more than Bobby.  So that is how I choose to see that and it makes it work for me.  But I understand those that hate him too, I just never got on that bandwagon.

[catrox14]

Oh I didn't hate Bobby, but I didn't really like him that much after a while. I sort of didn't like him with the boohoo princess speech and family isn't supposed to make you feel good. 

[DittyDotDot]

I still love Bobby, and was sad to see him go. But, I also think the retcon does take the punch out of some of the early season's story after they made it seem like Bobby was around more when they were kids. Dean's whole messed up hero worship of his dad takes on different connotations to me with this knowledge. And Dean's grief over losing John in S2 seems less important now too. The whole idea that Sam and Dean were left to their own devices for much of their childhood is now kinda moot. I'm all for Bobby becoming a father figure after John dies and to me that seems organic, but having him be foster daddy extraordinaire just doesn't work with what had been told up till that point, IMO.

 

Granted, in the grand scheme of things, it's not the most important thing, nor does it ruin this episode or Bobby for me, just makes me a little disappointed is all.. Sometimes these retcons can feel organic and actually deepen the story, this one didn't do it for me, unfortunately. 

[rue721]

I think it would have been less treacly and more effective to think that Bobby became the surrogate father only in their later years with little foundation from their childhood.  It would have been a chosen family as adults and wouldn't have had to further destroy John's characterization to do it. 

 

For me, one of the most moving and tragic moments of the series was  in Lazarus Rising when Dean came back from Hell and told Bobby he was the closest thing he had to a father as proof that Dean was himself. To me, Dean placing that kind of importance on Bobby spoke volumes about Dean's state of mind back then. I thought it came from an organic place in what Dean needed to believe in vs what was necessarily fact about their relationship.  And this idea that Bobby was always there lessens that moment for me. YMMV

 

I agree. The show seemed like it was trying to make the "Bobby is like a father to Dean and (maybe, but not really as much) Sam" thing so literal, but imo what was real and effective about the whole idea was that it wasn't literal, they were just trying to fill the holes in each others' lives and there was no way they were going to be able to really be successful at it. Bobby *couldn't* replace his hypothetical children and Dean *couldn't* replace his dead father even though they sincerely wanted to.

 

So much about the show, and Dean's arc (over the series) in particular, seems to be about having to play the hand you're dealt, and how difficult/limiting/rewarding that can be. So to have the show be like, NO WORRIES if your dad dies, I guess you can find a new one! NO WORRIES if you're alone in the world with your family all gone, some grown men might take you on as their new father! It sticks in my craw.

 

Not that I have any problem with the three of them being close in general, I think that makes sense. But I hate the "Bobby plays catch with Dean and berates John for his poor parenting!" "Bobby has no regrets about not having children because he does have sons after all!" or even "Sam killing Bobby would be patricide!" etc stuff in particular. Yeah, Bobby needed sons and especially Dean still needed a father, but wishing they could be that for each other doesn't make it so. Though it might also be better than nothing (personally, I actually think it often becomes *more* depressing when people try to step into/you try to force people into a role like that because it highlights the person who you wish you actually had or who you wish someone else actually were, but y'know. Glass half empty over here, obviously! :P). Bobby/Dean/Sam could have loved each other in a different way, it didn't have to be so spelled out. When someone is "like family," it doesn't have to mean that they literally are replacing a specific family member, LOL. Just means you love them imo. I wish the show had trusted the audience more to understand that general concept. So yeah, I'll take you guys' lead and just pretend that this particular retcon didn't happen! And that Bobby/Dean/Sam were just their own family in their own way, without all the heavy handed "Bobby is the new John" piling-on.

 

Anyway, that stuff doesn't ruin the episode for me, the episode as a whole is still really good imo. I also never *hated* Bobby, I hated how he was shoehorned in. And how extremely contrived and pointless the attempt to shoehorn him in felt (imo), because he actually could have/did fit pretty organically in the first place.

 

In terms of Bobby being too harsh or mean, I didn't think he was, he seemed pretty great as a friend/mentor. He was really trustworthy, dependable, always thought about things from Dean's or Sam's perspective when he was giving them advice or his opinion. He didn't try to manipulate them or use them. He always tried to help them when they needed it, even if they didn't ask for it. He seemed very loving, imo. I thought he was a really good person, fundamentally, which is why it was horrible/sad that he betrayed Rufus so badly (considering Rufus was his best friend and probably the person he was closest to). Unfortunately, none of that really "stuck" in terms of my feelings about him, I just couldn't warm up to the character regardless.

 

Though, there is one moment with him that I really liked. I think it was at the end of Yellow Fever? Bobby, Dean, and Sam are all standing around having a drink, and one of them makes fun of Dean (who had had to lay low for a while) and asks if he's ready to hunt. Dean goes into some defensive rant:  "hunt! give me something to hunt, I'll do it RIGHT NOW! just let me at it!" Bobby looks at Sam and says, "isn't he adorable?" and Bobby and Sam both crack up laughing (fondly). That was one of the sweetest moments in the show's entire run, imo.

[DittyDotDot]

In terms of Bobby being too harsh or mean, I didn't think he was, he seemed pretty great as a friend/mentor. He was really trustworthy, dependable, always thought about things from Dean's or Sam's perspective when he was giving them advice or his opinion. He didn't try to manipulate them or use them. He always tried to help them when they needed it, even if they didn't ask for it. He seemed very loving, imo. I thought he was a really good person, fundamentally, which is why it was horrible/sad that he betrayed Rufus so badly (considering Rufus was his best friend and probably the person he was closest to). Unfortunately, none of that really "stuck" in terms of my feelings about him, I just couldn't warm up to the character regardless.

 

I never thought Bobby was too harsh either. It's not like he was daily berating Dean or ever telling Dean he was worthless, his "harsh" speeches usually said the opposite, in my mind. And, he always had to work up to a "harsh" exchange--they usually came out of frustration and weren't his first course of action. But, I always thought he worked from a place of caring and affection for the boys--especially Dean, IMO.

[rue721]

I never thought Bobby was too harsh either. It's not like he was daily berating Dean or ever telling Dean he was worthless, his "harsh" speeches usually said the opposite, in my mind. And, he always had to work up to a "harsh" exchange--they usually came out of frustration and weren't his first course of action. But, I always thought he worked from a place of caring and affection for the boys--especially Dean, IMO.

 

Yeah, I always did believe that he for real loved Dean esp., so it didn't really even register with me when he was gruff. Taking this to the John thread though, since I guess it's about a comparison of the various father figures. (Guess that's a better place for it?!)

[DittyDotDot]

Okay, I got here on the re-watch and I was wrong, the final scene is not a slow push on Dean's face, although it does exist before the final scene. Funny how I had remembered it totally differently.

 

Anyway, I thought I'd be steeled for this episode this time...nope. It still affected me much like it did the first time and there was some eye-leaking when I was done watching it. In my mind that's a sign they did something right considering the number of times I've seen this episode. Kudos show.

[Demented Daisy]

The wall-punch doesn't bother me, or the "walk away" line.  At least Dean didn't beat the hell out of Baby again, like he did after John died.

 

Likewise, the line about John dumping them at Bobby's when he had a hunt only (IMO) applied when John was in the area.  If he's got a hunt in the south, he's not going to go all the way to South Dakota just to leave Sam and Dean with Bobby.  But if he's got a hunt in one of the surrounding states, why not drop them off with Bobby?

 

Long story short, as far as retcons go, this one is minor because it's based on Bobby's memories, which are not always reliable.  But mileage varies.

[catrox14]

I guess I don't get how the audience is not meant to interpret what we see about Bobby as anything but true.

[Goldmoon]

catrox, I kind of get this.  What I think Bobby was remembering was what stood out in importance to him at the time of his death.  I doubt he took Dean to the park more than once to play catch with him, but for that one day, he tried to give the kid a gift and then stood up to John for deviating from John's Little Soldier regimen.  I don't like the part about him teaching the boys to track, but he probably thinks he contributed to their skills with whatever little he had done with them.  When Sam gave Dean the amulet, didn't he say that it was from Uncle Bobby?  I think Bobby was there, sometimes, and may have elevated that early relationship in his memory.  I loved how he looked at the boys in his memory just before he died.  And as for the I adopted two sons line, it sounded very much like he felt that way, even if the boys would quibble about the details of the exact time that they were "adopted."

 

Also, disagreeing with posters who felt that Dean would not have punched the glass.  He had lost so much and this burst of frustration was his anxiety hitting overload.  It seemed totally in character to me.

 

Rufus is awesome.

[Altered Reality]

I watched this episode with the Jim Beaver and Steven Williams commentary for the first time the other night.  Loved it, wish we could get more of these two. A mini series maybe?  I'd watch that.  And hearing SW lobbying throughout for Rufus's return had me nodding my head in agreement.

 

Mind, I'm not sure he'd fit in the show anymore.  But it could happen, as SW said, as long as they don't salt and burn his bones, the door is open :D

[catrox14]

Just re-watched this on TNT. 

 

Okay, I admit i don't much like this episode. I know i"m in the minority on that but it's not even because Bobby died, but i didn't really like the pacing or the storytelling through Bobby's comascape or whatever that was.

 

my question is this.

 

Since this was all in Bobby's comascape

keeping in my mind the similar thing they did in s9 with Sam's comascape. which was in his head and we don't know what was real or not

was the gunshot to his father's head really just him remember being shot in his own head and that was just a wish or whatever that he had killed his father for abusing his mother and him vs Bobby actually killing his own father and then burying him in the backyard with his mother's help?

[DittyDotDot]

Like pretty much everything, it could be interpreted either way, but my theory is the memories were real. I could be being influenced by how I think of this episode as  Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, though.

 

Other reasons why I think the memories are real:

• First, the reaper says he's the first case of genetic bullet in the head (or something to that effect) he's ever had which I don't know why the reaper would say that if the memory wasn't real and/or it was simply transference due to Bobby himself getting shot in the head.
• Second, the way out was for Bobby to face his worse memory. If that wasn't a real memory then he shouldn't have had the emotional reaction to it that allowed him to become conscious again. Plus, the way he kept avoiding that particular memory makes me think it was a real one he didn't like to think about.
• And, the fact everything was disappearing makes me think they were real memories being taken away due to the brain damage.

[AwesomO4000]

I agree with DittyDotDot's reasoning above. I'll also add (since I was writing it already, so...)

 

My interpretation was also that it was an actual  memory. It would explain some of the other memories Bobby had, especially the ones where he remembered his wife wanting children and Bobby not wanting any, because he would be afraid of turning into his father and because of his own darkness. It also makes sense that it was a real memory in reference to his statement (paraphrase) "This is pretty much where you learned that they never say 'Thank you'"

 

It also was a nice call back, in my opinion, to "Slash Fiction" where the leviathan Chet (who morphed into Bobby) told Bobby that there was a real darkness in him... something concerning his father.

[Dobian]

This is one of my favorite episodes from the first seven seasons.

[GirlyGeek]

"You're either laughing cause your scared or you're laughing cause you're stupid"

Need I say more?  Great scene.

I like this episode, I like the insight into Bobby's past and some of Sam and Dean's past.  I never got upset about Bobby and his foster dad comments.  I have a long time friend that I call my sister (and she comes to all family events, too) LOL but we're certainly not related and she's my parents age.  When you know people so long, and you spend that much time together, and, especially in this case, when you're put in the position of being a father-figure over and over (and then they lose their real father)... well, I can see that being his mind set.  And Dean and Sam would concur, so I don't see the issue.

Watching the boys fall apart over Bobby, watching Sam rub at his scarred hand as if he's not sure this is real/hoping its not, and watching Dean fall back on vengeance as a coping mechanism... all very good character moments for me and true to where I think they would land.  

Sad to see Bobby go and during a time when I really thought "how in the world is Dean going to keep moving forward now?"

[DittyDotDot]

56 minutes ago, GirlyGeek said:

I like this episode, I like the insight into Bobby's past and some of Sam and Dean's past.  I never got upset about Bobby and his foster dad comments.  I have a long time friend that I call my sister (and she comes to all family events, too) LOL but we're certainly not related and she's my parents age.  When you know people so long, and you spend that much time together, and, especially in this case, when you're put in the position of being a father-figure over and over (and then they lose their real father)... well, I can see that being his mind set.  And Dean and Sam would concur, so I don't see the issue.

Well, my issue isn't that Bobby called them his boys, but that I don't believe they spent all that time with Bobby as kids as this episodes suggests. Back in S1 it really doesn't seem like Sam knew Bobby at all, but was someone Dean and John had worked with until John pissed Bobby off, IMO. So I have a hard time lining up some of the early-season episodes is all.

I don't have a problem with Bobby seeing them as his boys, though--or calling them that--not at all. I fully believe Bobby became a father figure to them after John died and I fully believe Bobby cared for them like they were his. I just don't buy that John left them with Bobby regularly or that they even knew him when they were small. And, TBH, I actually find it more meaningful Bobby was someone they glammed onto in the wake of John's death rather than someone who was always around.

The contrast between John and Bobby as father figures is one I find fascinating, though. Since Bobby wasn't their actual father, he was able to have a very different relationship with the boys than John did. While I believe John loved both his boys, I think he was too scared and paranoid to actually have a real relationship with them. But, IMO, Bobby did and saw them as individuals rather than soldiers to bark orders at.

Edited October 10, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[GirlyGeek]

Ahh yes, then I agree with you.

however, I'm not recalling what would serve as evidence to you in S1 that Sam didn't know Bobby that well?

Bobby is only in the final episodes of S1 and yes it is Dean that suggests they need help finding John so they end up at Bobbys. I certainly got the feeling that Dean had been in contact with Bobby much more re: hunting matters, so perhaps it had been years since Bobby and Sam had been in touch.  But I didn't get the feeling he didn't know him well.

In S3, the Wee-chesters are calling him Uncle Bobby, too

[DittyDotDot]

8 minutes ago, GirlyGeek said:

Ahh yes, then I agree with you.

however, I'm not recalling what would serve as evidence to you in S1 that Sam didn't know Bobby that well?

Bobby is only in the final episodes of S1 and yes it is Dean that suggests they need help finding John so they end up at Bobbys. I certainly got the feeling that Dean had been in contact with Bobby much more re: hunting matters, so perhaps it had been years since Bobby and Sam had been in touch.  But I didn't get the feeling he didn't know him well.

In S3, the Wee-chesters are calling him Uncle Bobby, too

It definitely feels like it's someone Dean trusts and knew they could rely on to help, but I just don't get the vibe it was someone who he thought of as "uncle Bobby" or a foster parent, but more of a friend and co-worker, IMO. It's just the way they played that first scene with Bobby. Dean says something like, "See, Sam, I told you this guy knows his stuff." It gave me the impression this was someone Dean knew, but not Sam. And, when Dean mentions about John pulling a shotgun on Bobby, it just feels like Sam wasn't attached to it at all, didn't even know it happened. I mean, sure, that does seem to be the effect John has on folks, but it just feels like he's just another one of John's contacts rather than someone important to them, IMO.

And, in S2, I didn't get the vibe he had been around since they were kids, but was trying to step up and help them since they didn't have any one else to turn to in the wake of John's death. I know by S3 they had already headed down the road of Bobby always being around in their young lives, I just didn't buy that direction. I find it hard to believe, if that was the case, they had no idea Bobby had been married previous to becoming a hunter. Not that I think Bobby would've told them the whole story, but if they had been hanging around his house so much I'm surprised they didn't know more about him. I knew more about one of my grandmother's friends we'd go visit together, on occasion, than they seemed to know about Bobby, IMO.

I kinda feel like they brought Bobby to to foreground more to play the part they originally had in mind for either Missouri--which seemed to not work and the actress was unavailable to return--or Pastor Jim--who they killed in S1 so it's not like they could bring him back in the present. So, I get why they did it and I loved Bobby, as a character, I just prefer him to step into that father-figure role after John died. Somehow it works better in my head that way.

[Hanahope]

I tended to see Bobby become the father figure more after John died, but I can accept that John dropped them off with Bobby when they were younger because he couldn't let them be completely alone.  But it could easily be when Sam was so young, he really didn't remember Bobby.

 

it was definitely sad to see him die, but this show always finds ways to bring back the dead, so I'm sure we'll see him again. I'm going to guess Bobby stayed somehow despite body burning. His DNA has got to be all over his books and stuff.

 

i liked seeing more of Rufus and Bobby actually hunt more than just research.   It was nice to see more of Bobby's background too.  And it's a shame Bobby never had his own kids, I think he would have been ok.

[MysteryGuest]

I just rewatched this episode, and I had forgotten how much I liked it.  I loved the pace of it, the acting, the story...all of it.  This is what I miss from the most recent seasons.  

I absolutely adore Bobby and Rufus together, and I'm sorry that we didn't get more of that in the earlier seasons.  They really do have great chemistry together.  I hope we get to see them again before the show is finished.

Bobby's relationship to Sam and Dean might have morphed as seasons went on, but I enjoyed this version.  Bobby really loved them, and they him, and I think that's consistent with what we've seen of them together.  

I do believe Bobby really did kill his father, and that was the one memory he was trying to avoid until the very end.  It made sense to me.  I doubt that he ever told anyone what happened, and just buried the memory.  I remember watching this for the first time and just assuming that he would survive somehow, like they always did.  It took me a while to get over his death...I'm not sure I ever have, actually.  Of all the characters who've come and gone on this show, I think I miss Bobby the most.

[bettername2come]

Oh, God, oh God, oh, God - my words on the weird zoom out of Bobby's bullet wound. "I'm not an idiot. I know first aid for a friggin' bullet to the head!" Of course he does. 'Cause their lives are constantly surrounded by death and destruction. I hate this one. Karen! Rufus! Rufus has a dangly earring. Sam leaning against the wall in the hospital. Great body language by Jared, he almost looks small. Definitely younger and sad. Karen actress is good. I agree that Dean walking away would've seemed more in character. Everybody filming Dean yelling at Dick and the fact that he's a famous dead serial killer doesn't get noticed? Also, why are no cops questioning how this man was shot in the head? "Because it's real!" Followed by Sam sitting down squeezing the scar on his hand. Nicely done. I think this series consistently nails the hospital scenes, when the boys get thrown back into the real world uncertainty and helplessness of life. I like the reaper. He's respects Bobby's work. "Kids ain't supposed to be grateful. They're supposed to eat your food and break your heart, you selfish dick." "This is where you learn that they pretty much never say 'thanks' when you save them." I love Bobby's final memory. The boys calling each other "asshat" and "jerkface," arguing over candy (I personally side with Sam on both licorice and peanut butter and banana sandwiches.) 

This is a really good episode. I mean, they kill Bobby so I'm obligated to hate it, but it was well done and the kind of send off Jim Beaver deserved. He brought his A-game. 

I'm convinced that Bobby and John's falling out was because Bobby questioned John's parenting in some way.  
 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I really like the way they showed  Bobby's memories closing in and disappearing due to the bullet wound trauma.  Kind of reminds me of a Stephen King story.  I also thought Bobby would some how miraculously live the first time I watched.  I think I was still in shock when I watched the next ep.  But then, I wasn't terribly attached to him at the time, so it didn't bother me as much as it bothers others.  

I like the can-torch Bobby used for burning Lara's bones.  I like that the last thing Bobby says to them is to call them idgits.  That says more than something sappy.  

On 7/29/2017 at 11:33 PM, bettername2come said:

"I'm not an idiot. I know first aid for a friggin' bullet to the head!"

I never caught this before.  I always thought he said, I don't know first aid for a bullet to the head.  

On 7/29/2017 at 11:33 PM, bettername2come said:

(I personally side with Sam on both licorice and peanut butter and banana sandwiches.) 

Me too.  I think this is when Sam finally edged out Dean for me.  :)

[Katy M]

I remember right before it aired, I said that if they ended the episode with a reaper beckoning to Bobby and him deciding whether to stay or go, I was going to scream.  Well, I decided I didn't want to get evicted, so I didn't actually scream, but man was I steamed. 

I hate licorice.  blech.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Did anyone else think Lara looked like the bad ghost sister from The Mentalists?  Or is it just me?  

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Did anyone else think Lara looked like the bad ghost sister from The Mentalists?  Or is it just me?  

Was that the heartbreaker ghost?  Maybe a little.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Was that the heartbreaker ghost?  Maybe a little.

Yes, the heartbroken/breaker ghost Bobby was hunting with Rufus.

[Iju]

idk how i can even put words into this episode. i had no idea how much i loved bobby until now. i'm already getting back the wave i felt back then. one of his last memories was looking at the boys arguing...who would have knew he loved those moments the best? and sam and dean standing there alone staring at bobby's room....ugh. orphaned again. 

On 10/11/2017 at 11:08 AM, Katy M said:

 

I hate licorice.  blech.

SAME! sam wins that debate.

[The Companion]

Sam made up slightly for arguing cake is pie by recognizing that licorice is trash. 

This one gutted me. I mean legit crying. I really liked Bobby and thought he brought so much to the show. Maybe there was some retconning, but even cutting it out he has been so closely tied with the boys that his loss is hard.

It is interesting that your life flashing before your eyes is really reliving memories. Perhaps it is the universe sorting out the ones to create your heaven.

I think everyone covered my thoughts pretty thoroughly except to say that I liked the reaper. I like that each reaper has a different strategy. I liked that he was calm and constant. 

[gonzosgirrl]

I love all things licorice. Go figure. 🙂