S23.E19: Tangled Strands Of Justice

[WendyCR72]

Airing April 28, 2022:

Quote

Garland asks Benson to reopen a missing persons case he worked as a rookie officer. A victim in one of Carisi’s recent cases is arrested.

 

[Xeliou66]

This sounds interesting - I’m kind of surprised Garland is returning given that the actor didn’t choose to leave, he was let go, but it will be nice to see him again and I hope he gets some good material and it’s not just another St Olivia saves the world hour. The case sounds like something different from the norm, let’s hope it delivers. 

[dttruman]

On 4/19/2022 at 11:49 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Airing April 28, 2022:

Quote

Garland asks Benson to reopen a missing persons case he worked as a rookie officer. A victim in one of Carisi’s recent cases is arrested.

 

This former victim that's arrested, is it that girl who may or may not have set up that shooting and theft at that one gang's crib? She got off because Benson thought she was brutalize so much, she was forced to set that massacre up.

[dttruman]

Well we got our first twist. The girl who has been missing some 20 years ago was also find out  she is pregnant. Is it me or is it just so obvious she was impregnated by her grandfather?

oh my God I just hit the ceiling, Benson goes on an unethical rant that just shows how hypocritical she is. This episode  show it's all about her as a champion for rape victims even thought those victims may later commit major crimes themselves, but according to Benson, it's not their fault.

Bottom line, Benson's holier than thou attitude has reached an all time zenith and her victim's advocacy is completely one sided. This part of the episode is so tainted with a political agenda, that it is completely unrealistic. Granted the protocol was not exactly followed, but Benson has stepped over the line so many times and she usually goes miles over the line and this is suppose to be something so outrageous to Benson. Please someone tell Benson (or Hargitay) to get over herself.

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by dttruman

[The Bullpen]

Good episode.  It was obvious it was the grandfather, but that didn't take away from the storyline IMO.  

Yes, St. Olivia is as tiresome as ever, but it was fun seeing her clash with the Major Case detective.

[Broderbits]

11 minutes ago, The Bullpen said:

Yes, St. Olivia is as tiresome as ever, but it was fun seeing her clash with the Major Case detective.

I'm all for clashing with St. Olivia, but I never need to see that detective again. Her face was so punchable!

[mommalib]

It was great to see Garland again and I loved Amanda calling him Chief. The actor who played he Grandfather does creepy very well because I got the vibe from him immediately. 

Olivia is usually the most annoying part of the show but that detective took the cake. 

[Diana Berry]

I was multitasking but I didn’t see the grandfather being the perp coming.

That detective was off the chain but enjoyable  how she was getting Liv’s goat.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Diana Berry

[preeya]

I knew it was the "not-grandfather" as soon as they were questioning them.

And St. Olivia gets one-upped by the Queens D.A.

But that Queens detective was some piece of work. I hope they keep her in Queens.

[MerBearHou]

My favorite thing to see in quite a long time on SVU — the two women who were not even slightly bowing down to St. Olivia.  They stood up to her, they told her to get out of their way, etc etc.  It was so great to watch and hear, even if they weren’t exactly on the right side of things.  

[EtheltoTillie]

Good episode. Both cases were DNA themed.

I knew it was “grandpa” from the moment he appeared. He was acting suspicious. But they gave us a potential red herring with the mother’s married boyfriend. When they were questioning him outside his hospital job he threw away his sandwich wrap and soda can. Did anyone else shout at the TV “go retrieve that DNA from the trash!”  But then he agreed to come in for a sample. 

I loved Betty Buckley’s advice to Olivia. “Sometimes the best way to get something done is to let someone else take the credit.”

[Xeliou66]

Unusual episode with 2 separate stories, I liked one and disliked the other.

The murdered girl case that Garland worked on was strong, it was nice to see Garland again, I’m glad he’s landed on his feet and I’m not surprised he’ll be in politics, I miss Garland as chief. The case kept me guessing, I was suspicious of the grandfather but I wasn’t sure it was him. Carisi’s look of hatred and disgust at him at the end after he confessed was GREAT. I enjoyed seeing Rollins and Velasco work on the case with minimal Benson, and I liked seeing Garland work on it with them, and I liked Garland/Carisi confronting creepy grandpa. And I liked seeing the ME, Abel Truman, again, it’s always nice when they visit the ME. So that case was good and was more than enough to take up the whole hour. 

Unfortunately, the other story was nothing but St Olivia on her soapbox and acting as an advocate instead of a police officer - when she said Libby needed an advocate I wanted to scream at her that’s she a police officer not an advocate. While the Major Case detective and Queens DA were unethical, I loved when the detective screamed at Benson and asked if she was some kind of saint, I wanted to scream at Benson as well, she’s such a fucking hypocrite who’s bent the rules many times, and she does seem to believe getting raped excuses rape victims from other criminal behavior, and it was nice to see her called out on that, it’s just too bad the show won’t allow someone who is ethical to call out Benson on her hypocrisy and being more of an advocate than a cop, it’s clear that will never happen because Mariska’s ego is so big no one is allowed to criticize the Queen Bee.

No Fin always sucks, at least Garland’s presence plus a lot of Rollins/Velasco made up for it.

If they had just stuck to the murdered girl case with Garland, this would’ve been one of the season’s best outings. Instead, it was a mixed bag with one good story and one irritating story. 

[wknt3]

The Good:
Garland, It was nice to see him back and that he's landed on his feet. And that whatever went down everyone seems to be OK and there is another good actor in the Dick Wolf Rep Company.
Velasco. They seem to have completely dropped his connection to the Chief of D-Bags and made him the new Fin - when he's on screen it means there's actual investigation of sexually based offenses going on.
The guest cast. Solid up and down. They delivered the good material and elevated the bad.
The cold case plot. It was solid and interesting and only brought down by the fact that the perp was obvious just by the casting - you don't bring in Ron Canada for a bit part. I kinda wish they had expanded this and completely focused on the case.
Minimal Rollins and no personal drama.
The Queen B detective calling out Benson. Yes it was ridiculous and OTT, but it was still nice to see.

The Bad:
No Fin.
The rape victim DNA plot. It was a great idea, but the execution was terrible. Benson was an advocate from the jump instead of an inestigator and CO properly concetrned about the being able to do her job. And the writing for Carisi was terrible at the beginning as well. They needed to go back and re-write this so that they weren't defending a perp who happened to be a victim before, but investigating a violation of the rape kit DNA database. It would not have been hard at all to fix the issues. Have Carisi looped in because one of his witnesses/victims now had credibility issues and investigating what seems to be an obvious violation of procedures and then bringing in Benson to assist with the investigation, drop them acting like defense attorneys and then basically proceed with everything else. Unfortunately it seems like Julie Martin has forgotten all of the basics of screenwriting and sees her job as taking dictation from Mariska.
Speaking of writing problems and elevating their game, they really need to start deliberately subverting out expectations based on casting or cast against type occasionally. Given the way the show has been stripped down (we almost never get a comic diversion, or a dead end lead) when they bring in a big name or an actor who always plays a type you can always tell what is coming in the last act 10 minutes in. And if you aren't going to do that you need to fake us out another way like giving Ron Canada's character the showy grief and making the mother the stoic one so that the twist is a little less obvious.
Mariska. All of her worst tendencies were on display in spades. The constipated faces, the overacting, all of it.

Overall this was OK, mostly because of the great guest cast and the cold case plot being interesting. But it could have been good or great if they managed to tone down the St. Benson worship a tad and fixed the script problems while telling Mariska to dial things back to 11. In some ways squandered potential is worse than another rehash of he said she said with rich white people I have no interest in. Don't waste a good idea if you have an episode that's going to be devoted to massaging Mariska's ego. Just give us a stinker and save the good ideas for a week you're going to actually try your best.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

Unfortunately it seems like Julie Martin has forgotten all of the basics of screenwriting and sees her job as taking dictation from Mariska.

I love this comment!

8 hours ago, preeya said:

I knew it was the "not-grandfather" as soon as they were questioning them.

And St. Olivia gets one-upped by the Queens D.A.

But that Queens detective was some piece of work. I hope they keep her in Queens.

I thought this was like Benson talking to herself but with a blonde wig on.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, the grandpa was suspect from the beginning.  I guess I have a different perspective on that story though.  So, all along mom never mentioned the boyfriend. How could she know for sure he was not Involved?  I found her too defensive over the truth.  And, she had no idea her teen daughter was five months pregnant and being abused by her grandfather?  So, how did grandpa get the body from the apt to the park?  
 

The other story was bothersome to me too.  I get wanting to stop a perceived injustice, however, all that back room dealing was disturbing to me.  Maybe, it’s because I am an attorney, but seeing the chummy banter between the judge and Chief trial division person Maxwell.,..was a turnoff.  They discussed pending cases, old cases, and how another attorney had done unethical things like improperly putting judges name on search warrants?  That’s just not okay to condone or use as leverage.  Wrong on so many levels.  The message was the end justify the means….I disagree in that situation.  I do adore Betty Buckley though.  I’m posting a link of her posing with show’s cast on Media thread.  

[EtheltoTillie]

33 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, the grandpa was suspect from the beginning.  I guess I have a different perspective on that story though.  So, all along mom never mentioned the boyfriend. How could she know for sure he was not Involved?  I found her too defensive over the truth.  And, she had no idea her teen daughter was five months pregnant and being abused by her grandfather?  So, how did grandpa get the body from the apt to the park?  
 

The other story was bothersome to me too.  I get wanting to stop a perceived injustice, however, all that back room dealing was disturbing to me.  Maybe, it’s because I am an attorney, but seeing the chummy banter between the judge and Chief trial division person Maxwell.,..was a turnoff.  They discussed pending cases, old cases, and how another attorney had done unethical things like improperly putting judges name on search warrants?  That’s just not okay to condone or use as leverage.  Wrong on so many levels.  The message was the end justify the means….I disagree in that situation.  I do adore Betty Buckley though.  I’m posting a link of her posing with show’s cast on Media thread.  

I'm an attorney too and I'm always surprised at seeing these back-room dealings, but I know they go on (I am in NYC).  I just have no direct exposure so I can't confirm anything specific, as my practice is not usually a courtroom practice.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I'm an attorney too and I'm always surprised at seeing these back-room dealings, but I know they go on (I am in NYC).  I just have no direct exposure so I can't confirm anything specific, as my practice is not usually a courtroom practice.

I’ve litigated for many years and just the idea of chatting with a judge about any case without opposing counsel present is just beyond me.  Plus, in my state there’s a duty to disclose violations of others  so, there’s that too.  I’m not naive that stuff happens, but for the show to portray it as fair, since it helped with their cause just didn’t appeal to me.  

[EtheltoTillie]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I’ve litigated for many years and just the idea of chatting with a judge about any case without opposing counsel present is just beyond me.  Plus, in my state there’s a duty to disclose violations of others  so, there’s that too.  I’m not naive that stuff happens, but for the show to portray it as fair, since it helped with their cause just didn’t appeal to me.  

I always feel like I'm the nerdiest goody-goody, but I don't do such things.  But I know they must go on, as you always hear some story about someone getting in trouble after the fact, or you hear rumors.  Or they televise stories like this.  I have to believe these stories are based on real information.  My experience is that most people are ethical.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I recall when Schiff would have a meal with a judge or attorney, but he was very careful to stay inside the lines.  It was close, but I never got the impression there was impropriety…..maybe, it’s the delivery.  

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I recall when Schiff would have a meal with a judge or attorney, but he was very careful to stay inside the lines.  It was close, but I never got the impression there was impropriety…..maybe, it’s the delivery.  

Yeah on the old episodes of L&O they knew how to do that correctly and believably. SVU is notorious for setting up scenarios where many commentators here have stated "That would never happen in real life" or something to that effect.

[wknt3]

20 hours ago, preeya said:

But that Queens detective was some piece of work. I hope they keep her in Queens.

Detective Drama Queen is actually Major Case, which I'm surprised @WendyCR72 hasn't yet reminded us all is located in Manhattan (1PP) She probably will be banished forever as she is an apostate who has blasphemed against our Lord and Savior Benson so it probably doesn't matter, Unless they are setting her up for some sort of return where she faces the wrath of Liv and is drummed out of the force in disgrace after the chief finally sees the error of his ways and reforms, devoting himself to the one true path of just doing whatever Benson tells him to do..

 

18 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I loved Betty Buckley’s advice to Olivia. “Sometimes the best way to get something done is to let someone else take the credit.”

She looked confused, but it is probably just her usual Resting Liv Face. I do really wish they had taken a moment in that scene to finally get on board with the Mothership Return by having her comment ruefully to Benson about this sort of thing being the one downside to having a boss who is much more of a prosecutor than a politician or something similar. But I guess that would be a bridge too far given that they were already showing someone considerably higher up the food chain than Carisi acting out of morality instead of base political considerations...

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I recall when Schiff would have a meal with a judge or attorney, but he was very careful to stay inside the lines.  It was close, but I never got the impression there was impropriety…..maybe, it’s the delivery.  

The delivery was better, but so was the material. The actors, writers, and directors all understood nuance. You can't say that about this show.

[WendyCR72]

7 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Detective Drama Queen is actually Major Case, which I'm surprised @WendyCR72 hasn't yet reminded us all is located in Manhattan (1PP)

I was still in shock that someone was allowed to besmirch the glory that is Saint Olivia. Forgive me! Still was nice to know Major Case is still thought of, obnoxious detective or not!

[Dessert]

The part of the episode about rape victims’ DNA being used to cross check for other crimes is based on real cases and controversy in California. The San Francisco DA has admitted that they have doing this for years and say that it was a mistake. At least one victim is suing them. Legislation has been proposed to make it illegal. 

https://www.abc10.com/amp/article/news/crime/rape-kit-dna-bill/103-a391b18e-aa79-4ef5-bd01-dcfd9d0eba9c

[wknt3]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I was still in shock that someone was allowed to besmirch the glory that is Saint Olivia. Forgive me! Still was nice to know Major Case is still thought of, obnoxious detective or not!

In the name of the Mariska, and the Benson and of the Holy Spirit I forgive you.

To be fair she's not the first detective they've had who lacks some social graces and has a rather casual attitude towards the chain of command. Although the rest of them would have been able to solve this without sleeping with ME staff and trawling through victim DNA!

Edited April 30, 2022 by wknt3

[Wizardpatch]

This episode didn't do a lot of good for women in the workplace. If you make them DAs, they will use their power to spy on their cheating husbands, I guess?

[Irate Panda]

On 4/29/2022 at 9:34 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Maybe, it’s because I am an attorney, but seeing the chummy banter between the judge and Chief trial division person Maxwell.,..was a turnoff.  They discussed pending cases, old cases, and how another attorney had done unethical things like improperly putting judges name on search warrants?  That’s just not okay to condone or use as leverage.  Wrong on so many levels.

I thought this was weird too.  I’m like so they are just openly discussing all this, but when they were like the judge has been holding on to information about the one attorney falsifying warrants for personal reasons, I’m like shouldn’t they all be hauled in front of the Bar Association including the judge and now Maxwell because she knows and apparently doesn’t care to do anything about it.  Plus they’re all blabbering and shouldn’t St. Olivia do something because it would be a crime?

Edited May 1, 2022 by Irate Panda

[dttruman]

 

On 4/29/2022 at 9:33 PM, Dessert said:

The part of the episode about rape victims’ DNA being used to cross check for other crimes is based on real cases and controversy in California. The San Francisco DA has admitted that they have doing this for years and say that it was a mistake. At least one victim is suing them. Legislation has been proposed to make it illegal. 

https://www.abc10.com/amp/article/news/crime/rape-kit-dna-bill/103-a391b18e-aa79-4ef5-bd01-dcfd9d0eba9c

Benson advocacy for rape victims has always been narrow minded and one side. I know it's a slippery slop here and with all do respect to real rape victims, but it seems like Benson wants to give all rape victims "carte blanche" even if they commit major crimes or probably even going on a killing spree. If Benson had her way, the lady from the "Chameleon" episode and the girl from "Remember Me & Remember Me Too" episodes would be let off scot-free because they were sexually assaulted even though their DNA would have been used to identify them at the crime scenes.

I just wonder how this will play out in San Francisco and how much right to privacy will be allowed considering many more victims of crimes could result from this.

[tennisgurl]

Even with the never ending Olivia worship, this was a good episode. I am really happy to see Garland again and that he is doing well, I wish that he was still around but its nice to see them landing on his feet after being majorly screwed over. The cold case was definitely the best of the two cases, even if I knew it was the grandfather right away, it was helped by a great guest cast and solid police work. The second case basically existed for the show to give us a big lecture of the importance of keeping the DNA of rape victims private and for Olivia to be St Olivia, patron saint of rape survivor advocates, so while it was an interesting idea and a good issue to discuss, the constant Olivia "this is serious" faces really hurt my interest in the case. 

I liked that they touched on cases getting lost in the chaos of 9/11, I can imagine that a lot of crimes ended up being forgotten about right before and after the attacks, for understandable reasons, cases ended up going cold, I actually wish they had focused on that aspect a bit more, but I did like the case. It was obvious that the grandpa did it early on, although the boyfriend was a decent red herring. I felt bad for the mom and surviving sister, but the mom keeping information from the cops was really frustrating. If her daughter was missing she absolutely should have mentioned her boyfriend, even if he was married, and she should have mentioned her other daughter, to the cops when her daughter went missing and to Rollins and Velasco. If the cops had talked to the younger daughter in the first place, maybe she would have admitted the truth and they could have arrested the grandpa years ago. 

The second case started out interesting, dealing with how rape victims deal with what happened to them and the unethical use of DNA, but it ended up sadly just being another Olivia scream where she gets to be the ultimate victim advocate and savior of New York while her eyes bug out. Its frustrating because I do agree that using rape victims DNA for convict them for other crimes is very unethical and could absolutely keep victims from coming forward, but Olivia is so damn self important and smug its hard to root for her. Its just another incident where Olivia is more of a victims advocate than a cop, you get the feeling that Olivia will let any rape victim get away with anything ever because, in her mind, being a victim means that anything you do after is justified. She should have gotten the woman and her lawyer in touch with a victims rights group and they could have advocated for her instead of Olivia. Does a police captain really have so much spare time that she can dedicate herself so fully to this instead of passing this on to someone more qualified in law or victims rights? Even the woman who stole the watches wanted to take responsibility for what she did more than Olivia did, honestly I wanted to see more of her, hear why she stole the watches and if she is going to get some help moving forward, instead of a bunch of self righteous speeches from Olivia. Its also pretty rich listening to her giving a bunch of passionate speeches about ethics in the police department and DA's office while she is also benefitting from some very questionable backroom dealings to get what she wants, but I guess its alright when Olivia does it. That Queens detective was a real piece of work, I would be happy not to see her punchable face again.

No Finn, which sucks, but having Garland back made up for it.