S07.E03: The Girl Next Door

[Demented Daisy]

Sam reunites with a childhood girlfriend who is supposedly preying on human brains.

 

 

Ah, if only it were that simple.  Glad they brought back Colin Ford.  

[catrox14]

This episode IMO is one of the clunkers of the season. I mean it's not terrible or anything it's just bleh. Sorry, Jensen but this episode did not reflect your best work as a director but you set the bar high with Weekend at Bobby's.

 

s10 spoilers and speculation:

I've been thinking that maybe the character that is hunting Dean is  Amy's son because he would have every reason to be hunting Dean.  But I think the age doesn't work. Of course, they could fanwank it away as an aging thing because monster reasons.

[AwesomO4000]

This is not a favorite, but the last time I rewatched season 7, I decided I might as well watch a few scenes and I said to myself, "this isn't as bad as I remembered it being. I'll watch a few more..." which eventually turned into the entire episode. I like Colin Ford playing young Sam, so that helps, but I also enjoyed the insight into the family dynamics at that time that this episode provided. We learned that Sam wasn't all about his studies and defying John, but actually even at a fairly young age was charged with some responsibility when it came to their hunts: a responsibility that he took very seriously... and so it wasn't just rebellion involved in Sam's leaving/choosing college. Sam had experience and an informed opinion behind it.

 

I didn't really like how Dean killed Amy in the end, but I can see both sides here. The decision to have the son see it was a bit gratuitous on the show's part, though, and really the better - and for me in some ways more humane - thing for Dean to do would have been to kill the son also, in my opinion. And for me, it was a missed opportunity that Dean did not come across Amy in purgatory... there could have been resolution there. Dean could've let Amy know that he let her son live... and struggle with the decision on whether or not - after thinking about it - he should bring her back or not. A missed opportunity there for me.

 

Your speculations are very interesting @catrox14 and I could see that happening.

Edited August 12, 2014 by AwesomO4000

[Demented Daisy]

@catrox14,

I could see that happening in a future season, but didn't Carver say that the guy hunting Dean has no idea the supernatural world exists?  I think a "monster" would be well aware of that.

[catrox14]

@catrox14,

I could see that happening in a future season, but didn't Carver say that the guy hunting Dean has no idea the supernatural world exists?  I think a "monster" would be well aware of that.

 

s10 spoilers and speculation

That's a good point that I had forgotten.  But just for fun, what if he didn't know he's a monster.  He was like 6 or 7 IIRC. Was his father human? I really can't remember. Llet's say he's found by human people or he ends up in foster care with humans, maybe he never knew he was a monster or is raised by other Kitsunes that hide from him what they are.  All he remembers is seeing Dean kill his mother which might be motivation enough

Edited August 12, 2014 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

I don't hate this one either, It wouldn't make a top 10 or even 20 list, but overall I didn't think it was too bad. I realize that it started the Amy ridiculousness, but if you separate it from the other episodes I thought it was a decent MoTW. I do hate the way Sam ran off again--at least he left a note this time--but he had to know that Dean would be out of his mind with worry so it pisses me off that he didn't at least stay in touch and keep Dean in the loop.

 

And, I didn't have a problem with Dean killing Amy per se, I just hated the lying about it to Sam. I understood why he did it, but I thought we were past the lying and subterfuge between the boys. I would have had a problem if he had killed Amy's son though, he was still an innocent--but he basically did nothing to keep him an innocent, so I was a little chaffed about that, but not sure exactly what he could have done to change that after the fact. 

 

What really drags it down for me, though, is that I don't really care for flashbacks and especially don't care for the treatment that gets used on them--they just look yucky to me. However, I do think Colin Ford does a great Sam so, they're not all bad. Jensen did okay for his second time out so I give it a pass, just not a favorite.

 

@catrox14--

Amy was feeding him human pituitary glands...I think he would know he was a monster, wouldn't he? Can those be cooked up to look like chicken? ;)

Look at that, my spoiler tags worked properly this time...I usually have to edit it like five times to get them to work properly...yay me!

[catrox14]

Amy was feeding him human pituitary glands...I think he would know he was a monster, wouldn't he? Can those be cooked up to look like chicken? ;)

 

@DittyDotDot,

you can fry anything! He's 7. She probably just chopped it up and put it in his mac and cheese...:)

[Meredith Quill]

Guys,

 

If you're having to use this many spoiler tags, may I suggest that you consider taking that part of your discussion over to the speculation thread, where you can talk freely with no restriction? It isn't mandatory but my eyes will thank you! :)

[mertensia]

I love that somewhere along the line Dean's picked up enough Spanish to watch and understand a telenovela. Also that he watches telenovelas. Kin to Dr Sexy, I guess.

I find it interesting that Dean makes a simple decision- kill Amy and just does so. He's right, of course, in that promise all she might there's no guarantee she won't kill again but still.

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, Dean and the telenovelas...that was nice. I had forgotten about that. And, of course, Bobby was also a fan.

 

Sorry @SilverStormm...it really doesn't pay to be a smartass does it?...Or should I say...someone else always pays for my smartassery. ;)

Edited August 13, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[supposebly]

The main problem I had was that Dean was arguing he was being pragmatic about Amy because Sam couldn't be but then he let her son go. How on earth did that not make him hypocritical?

 

It felt like the TV rule interfered where you can't kill a child on screen but it kinda destroyed Dean's motivation for killing Amy and his eventual explanation to Sam and that Sam understands it.

 

Overall, I always adored Colin Ford as Sam. Looks and acting ability.

[DittyDotDot]

Well, Amy had killed people and her son hadn't. I don't see it as hypocritical, Dean's entire argument was that she was not only a monster, but had killed a bunch of folks recently. I don't think he would have killed Amy if she hadn't been killing people.

[supposebly]

But wasn't the whole argument that she had killed AND that she would kill again because it was in her nature? What made him think it wasn't in her son's nature? Especially after he had witnessed his mother being killed?

 

I think it would be interesting if that one would be addressed again and the son would come after Dean. In a few years. Although, I do hope they finish the show soon.

[DittyDotDot]

I thought the argument was that she had killed once, so she'd be more likely to kill again. I don't remember the exact dialogue, but he said something like "She's dropping bodies, which means we got to drop her, no matter how many merit badges she racked up when she was a kid. I'm sorry, but it's that simple." I didn't think Dean was arguing that all monsters will inevitably kill humans, but since she did it once, it'd be that much easier for her to make that decision again. What happens the next time her kid got sick or she get's fired from her job and doesn't have a supply of dead bodies to feed off of?  I thought he was basically saying that once you've stepped over a line, it's that much easier to step over it again. Maybe that's my own feelings on projecting on the situation, though.

[supposebly]

Yes, I agree. I just think it fell short because he ignored the possibility that the kid might kill because he was now on his own. And I think the argument was raised that it might also have scared him off. Although that's the argument where I don't agree that harsher sentences scare people off committing crimes.

 

It makes me think of Lenore. They let her go since she didn't eat people. Now that I think about it, did they ever say that she had never killed before she started eating cows?

 

Ok, not episode related anymore.

[DittyDotDot]

Watching this episode again reminded me of why Dean killing Amy didn't bug me too much. I think Dean kills Amy mostly due to the fallout of Cass betraying them. I think Dean's having serious trust issues and just not willing to give anyone a pass. I'm not saying it was the right or wrong thing to do, but in terms of Dean's progression through the season, it totally makes sense to me why he did it. I don't think he really needed to lie about it, but it is Supernatural after all.

 

Anyway, I rather enjoyed my re-watching of this one. This episode has a quietness to it that I'm kinda drawn to.

[Demented Daisy]

So, re-watching on TNT right now and I can't believe I never noticed before -- how did Dean get his jeans over that huge cast?  ;-)

 

ETA  Of course, in the next scene, at the cabin, the cast is over his jeans.  Cute.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[Goldmoon]

Dull episode.  It doesn't help that I don't care that much for Sam and seeing Jewel S takes me out of the moment.  Dean should have killed the kid.  It was stupid for him to let him go.

[GirlyGeek]

I had extreme hatred for this episode when it first aired.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Colin Ford and I LOVE Jewel Staite.  Both a big check in the win column for me.  I also loved the flashbacks and seeing young Sam and his duties within the family structure.  I liked Dean and his telenovelas.

I hated that Sam took off.  He's going crazy/acting nutty and then decides he should take off?  Left his gimp brother, all alone, barely able to walk, without a mode of transportation, (and NO PIE?  no, Sam, cake is not close enough!), ostensibly taking the lion's share of the weaponry, and then DID NOT ANSWER HIS PHONE?  I mean c'mon?  That's just dumb.  And annoying.  

And then he wants Dean to just trust him?  Trust that he's made the right choice wrt Amy?  hmmm, no

On the other hand, I also disliked that Dean killed Amy.  Just didn't seem in character at this point.  I get that he's hurting and scared and losing people and hope, but it didn't seem organic to me to have him off Amy and then just stare down her kid and threaten to kill him too.  Just, no.
And it begins the whole You Killed Amy debacle of 2011 and I just recall hating on this new, forced, chasm between the brothers again.  Can we not go five seconds without someone doing something behind the other's back???

No, apparently not.

grrr.  OK, I'm better now. :)

[DittyDotDot]

Can we not go five seconds without someone doing something behind the other's back???

No, apparently not.

 

Wait, they can work together and be honest and forthright with each other. You just blew my mind. Hee! Take heart GirlyGeek, I think the whole Amy debacle is better on re-watch. When I think of S7 now, the Amy crap barely even registers as something that happened anymore. Watching it live though...

[GirlyGeek]

Still mad, even on re-watch.  ;)

Its just wrong on so many levels for Sam to leave, take the car and weapons, turn off his cell, and then ask to be trusted?!  I just can't get behind this at all.

And don't get me wrong, I actually land on Sam's side here.  Or, to be more clear, I can see both sides.  But its the lying (on both their parts) that nullifies their intentions, IMO.

Good to see Colin Ford- he's a cutie pie and the perfect young Sam Winchester.  

Again, NO CAKE does not equal PIE.  sheesh, Sam.  Its like your brain is mush or something... oh wait

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Upon rewatch, Dean comes across even worse.  The first (chronological binge-watching) time through, I remember hardly even blinking about Dean killing Amy at the end.  Kind of sucked that he went behind Sam's back, but not a deal breaker.  

I didn't have a problem with Sam leaving the first time I watched, nor did I this time.  I don't think he took all the weapons - otherwise, where did Dean get the knife with which he stabbed Amy?  But I did, and still do, have a problem with him telling Sam that he trusted him, and then he didn't.   I don't think Sam went behind Dean's back so much as Dean went behind Sam's back.  Sam just left information out of his note - but he did leave a note.  Dean said he'd trust Sam's judgement in letting Amy go, and then actively tracked her down and killed her.  Not the same thing at all.  

On rewatch, in his speech to Amy, Dean comes across much more hypocritical.  I guess I'm going to have to let that slide, because at the time of this episode, all the other stuff of days of future past (as of S12) hadn't happened yet.  

[Katy M]

19 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Upon rewatch, Dean comes across even worse.  The first (chronological binge-watching) time through, I remember hardly even blinking about Dean killing Amy at the end.  Kind of sucked that he went behind Sam's back, but not a deal breaker.  

I didn't have a problem with Sam leaving the first time I watched, nor did I this time.  I don't think he took all the weapons - otherwise, where did Dean get the knife with which he stabbed Amy?  But I did, and still do, have a problem with him telling Sam that he trusted him, and then he didn't.   I don't think Sam went behind Dean's back so much as Dean went behind Sam's back.  Sam just left information out of his note - but he did leave a note.  Dean said he'd trust Sam's judgement in letting Amy go, and then actively tracked her down and killed her.  Not the same thing at all.  

On rewatch, in his speech to Amy, Dean comes across much more hypocritical.  I guess I'm going to have to let that slide, because at the time of this episode, all the other stuff of days of future past (as of S12) hadn't happened yet.  

I definitely don't think Sam took all the weapons.  They would have never left AlL their weapons in the trunk as that would leave them defenseless if something got in, or was even outside before they noticed.

And, yeah, I don't remember what Sam said in his note, but since Dean didn't have any prior connection with Amy, hey I'm leaving for a few days is not a lie. They are adults.  They can do what they want with their own time.  Dean on the other hand may not have said "I won't kill your friend" but it was heavily implied.  And he told Sam he was going to the drug store.  So, actual lie.  Unless he swung by the on the way back.

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 8:07 PM, GirlyGeek said:

Again, NO CAKE does not equal PIE.  sheesh, Sam.  Its like your brain is mush or something... oh wait

Tell me about it.  I love pie.  Well, fruit pies, pumpkins and sweet potatoes don't belong in pies.  Can't stand most cake.

[Hanahope]

So first I'm mad at Dean for killing Amy. She was able to live without killing people the vast majority of the time .  And it looked like those she did kill, solely to heal her son, weren't good people (though that wasn't strongly stated - if it was, would it have made a difference to Dean?).  Plus killing her makes her kid be on his own and he may not be able to get a good supply of dead bodies to steal pituitary gland from.

then I'm mad at Sam because but for him finding Amy again, Dean never would have known about her, and thus wouldn't have killed her.  Given that she wasn't going to kill again, other hunters may not have found her either.

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

So first I'm mad at Dean for killing Amy. She was able to live without killing people the vast majority of the time .  And it looked like those she did kill, solely to heal her son, weren't good people (though that wasn't strongly stated - if it was, would it have made a difference to Dean?).  Plus killing her makes her kid be on his own and he may not be able to get a good supply of dead bodies to steal pituitary gland from.

then I'm mad at Sam because but for him finding Amy again, Dean never would have known about her, and thus wouldn't have killed her.  Given that she wasn't going to kill again, other hunters may not have found her either.

So, you would be OK with Amy killing your dad or something because her son needed his brain part?  You could literally make this argument about pretty much any of the creatures they kill-vampires, wendigo, werewolves, etc.  If my son needed a heart transplant and yours was a match, would you be OK with me killing your son to get his heart?  And as to her never killing again, who is to say her son won't get sick again.  I do agree with you, though, that it makes a sticky situation with her son being on his own and still needing to eat.

[Hanahope]

Well as I said, it looked like she was killing bad people, but I agree it was not completely clear, so it does lend some credence to what Dean did.

[DittyDotDot]

I guess for me, that whole "bad" people is subjective. What exactly was Amy's criteria for "bad"? Would that criteria have changed if she couldn't find a sufficiently bad person? Why does she get to decide what is bad and deserving of death?

For me, what Amy was doing was no different than what Dean did in the end. Dean and Amy both decided they got to be judge, jury and executioners all on their own.

But, that's also one of the things I like about this episode. It's a good discussion that doesn't tell me what was right or wrong. They just presented the arguments and left it up to me decide.

[Katy M]

Another thing to consider: when comparing the cases from 20 years ago (or whenever), Sam said the victim pool was the same.  That means that Amy's mother was also killing drug dealers and the like.  Yet nobody had any problem with amy's mother being hunted. 

Dean, not personally, is a mass murderer or cows.  If a bull tried to gore him, and Sam had the means, he would kill the bull.  Not think that it was OK because the bull just wanted revenge or wanted to save its life.  Or whatever.  And, it's also like Luther said in Dead Man's Blood.  "We have as much right to live as you."  Luther is absolutely right.  But, perhaps hunters are also right in killing vamps since they subsist on humans.  It's like killing a wild animal once it gets a taste for human.  Right or wrong?  Who knows?

[DittyDotDot]

You know what's funny to me right now? I've been thinking about what it exactly is about S7 that I find so engaging. It not like the plots were handled any better or worse; it's not that the storylines were really better or worse; I think it's that there are a lot of episodes like this that sit in the gray.

Sometimes there is no black and white right or wrong; sometimes protecting one person means you end up hurting some other innocent person. All you can do is try to make the choice you feel you can live with and hope it turns out to be the right one in the long run. S7 seems to really work on the theme set up here in this episode, "Nothing in our lives is simple."  I kinda love that aspect of the season. And it never really feels peachy to me.

Which is why I say it's funny. I gave Sera Gamble so much crap in the early seasons for being preachy...seems she figured it out without all my crap giving. ;)

[Hanahope]

Its definitely a gray area shown in this episode.  And it does harken back to the episode where Dean let the vamps that fed on animals go free.  How does he know they won't go back to humans in some dire need?  Yet he let them go solely on their promise to not kill humans, even though they have in the past.  Amy promises not to kill, now that her kid is well, and she certainly sounds truthful, plus she has survived on dead humans, to which she has amply supply in her job.  Yeah, its possible that her son will get sick again, but is it better to give her a shot, given her past mostly good actions, since she also has to take care of her son and bring him up to respect human life (as much as possible), or kill her and who knows wtf her son will do now that he's on his own at, what 12?

[AwesomO4000]

10 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

You know what's funny to me right now? I've been thinking about what it exactly is about S7 that I find so engaging. It not like the plots were handled any better or worse; it's not that the storylines were really better or worse; I think it's that there are a lot of episodes like this that sit in the gray.

I was talking about something similar in another thread... and I agree that quite a few season 7 episodes bring up these gray area issues - which I enjoy also. And even better for me? As this episode is a good example of, the writers don't hit you over the head with what the "right" answer is either. It's left for us, the viewer, to make up our own minds on what the answer could be... or even if we even think there is a right answer at all. My example in the other thread was a future episode ("Repo Man"), so I can't say what the gray issues were, but for me it was definitely in a similar vein as this episode.

[bettername2come]

So the guest star of the week is one of the queens of sci-fi named after another queen of sci-fi...she never stood a chance. I feel like Supernatural kills known sci-fi actresses at a higher rate than other characters.

Sam, you know perfectly well that cake is no substitute for pie in Dean Winchester's eyes. I wish the show would be consistent in its tinting of flashbacks to the boys' childhood. Dammit, leave Sam's head alone! Headbashing aside, Amy was a sympathetic monster. Colin Ford and the young Amy had good chemistry. I know a debate about whether the guys are any good at comedy, but I have to say I think Jared is great at pratfalls. "New rule, you steal my baby, you get punched." Fair. Good scenery chewing by Mama Pond. Young Sam really should've put up more of a fight. 

Dean is complicated in that scene. Because he asks the kid if he has someone to go to. Wouldn't that person likely also be a kitsune, who may or may not have a worse moral code than Amy. Also, I'd forgotten that the monster for this ep is weird and after seeing them on Teen Wolf, Supernatural's portrayal just seems weird. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On re-re-watch: More proof that someone* is still looking after Sam and Dean.   They had time to put a cast on Dean's leg and let him have a nice nap at Monster General Hospital and the Dr. Murder didn't find him until it was too late.  Also - I want to know who undressed Dean and why we didn't see this.  Drugged up Dean is fun.  Nice knee.  Dean leg porn!

Bobby sweet talking to Sam: "Come on, sicko."  

That whole hospital escape sequence was a lot of fun:, tense, and thrilling.  I didn't foresee Dean getting in the passenger side while the monsters are in the rear view.  

Dean and Bobby both getting into a Mexican soap opera is hilarious.  I love those bits of humor in episodes.  Wait - this is three weeks after Dean got his cast and he's saying he gets it off in 5 days?  It only takes 4 weeks for a broken leg to heal?  I thought it was longer - like 6-8 weeks.  

I wonder in what language that book 'Uncle Bobby' sent was written, that young sam was able to at least partially decipher.  

Lol for the television narration over - Dean is a wildebeest in that moment.  On the other hand, Dean is also a fierce predator, so...  Why am I suddenly having Lion King visions?  I don't really blame him for worrying, but Dean is lucky he didn't cut into his skin with the saw.  Really, Sam should have just answered the phone and talked to Dean for a moment without telling him where he was, but that would have at least let Dean know he wasn't hallucinating Lucifer.  

Chivalrous young Sam makes me smile.  

But seriously - it can't be easy for Giant sized Sam to hide behind some bushes and scraggly old forest undergrowth.  How did adult Amy not catch a glimpse of him?  Good point made by @Katy M about the victim pool being the same as 20 years ago.  Interesting that Amy's mother was also targeting drug dealers, etc.  I guess they would be less likely to be missed.  Whoa, so Sam was reaching in to Amy's pocket right before she knocked the knife out of his hand.  Hm.  I wonder if this is the first time Sam (as young Sam) had actually met a 'monster' and talked to one and this is when his more lenient (as compared to John and younger Dean) policy toward monsters began.

Dean punching Sam as soon as he opens the door of the motel room is another good bit of humor in the ep.  Nice visual call back with big Sam holding a cold can to his eye the same way young Amy gave young Sam to do.  

I do have to wonder how young Amy survived on her own for so long.  She said she'd never killed before she killed her mom.  As a kitsune, she still needed the pituitary glands.  So where did she get them before her coroner job?

Big Sam looks nice in his red and black plaid shirt.  And his hair is pretty.  Oh so pretty.  And witty and bright.  ;)

Hey, they were in front of a Biggerson's and Dean did not avail himself of their pie bar.  What gives?

Why did Dean even bother with the "next time you run" when he knew there wouldn't be a next time?  Don't play me like that, show.  Okay, I don't want to talk about this part anymore.  I still don't like how it went down.  Amy's son is another character we should definitely see again.  I don't know how old he was in this ep.  He looked about 10.  So he'd be around 15-16 in 2017.  I really wish the show would follow up on these things.  

*

Spoiler

Personally, I think that someone is Chuck - just like he put them on the plane in S4 and brought Bobby and Cas back to life at the end of S5.  

[10kfever]

On 8/13/2014 at 1:57 PM, supposebly said:

But wasn't the whole argument that she had killed AND that she would kill again because it was in her nature? What made him think it wasn't in her son's nature? Especially after he had witnessed his mother being killed?

 

I think it would be interesting if that one would be addressed again and the son would come after Dean. In a few years. Although, I do hope they finish the show soon.

Hey, we've got season 14 coming up. The kid will be about 17 or 18. Time for a little payback?

[Iju]

these levis look so impossible to kill, they broke up dean! 

and about the whole dean killing the girl, i would have trusted sam on her, but i wouldn't have trusted the son. he has nothing to do with the mom, and he's young so he could be reckless and who knows what. it doesn't make a lot of sense of but i guess i could understand why he did it. 

also, i miss childhood dean and sam. why didn't the writers hone in on that more i wonder.

[The Companion]

Well, if anything was going to make me have a nergasm in life, it's Jewel Staite under the alias if Amy freaking Pond. Excuse me, i am gonna need a moment. 😆

I don't think i have ever been so sad about the death of a one off character in this show. Even some of the recurring ones. I really wish Dean had let this one go. I knew he wouldn't. 

I do think Sam was wrong . . . about the cake. Amy had gone years and years without killing and she specifically killed bad guys (which is also what Sam and Dean do, in case they have forgotten). But Dean rarely sees shades of gray on this stuff. And i think he is less inclined at this point.

Bringing it home for me was the stellar job the young actors did. This was a complete win for me, and i am surprised at how down so many people are on it. It sounds like there are repercussions down the road, though. So perhaps that will retroactively change my view. 

As for the Leviathans, i am really happy with them as the big bad and hope this doesn't fizzle out like Eve kinda did. They are great. Sufficiently sinister and remorseless.

In other news, is anyone concerned for Sam's head? He is taking a lot of blows. Maybe he isn't crazy, he just has TBI. Aim lower, Dean. Our boy needs to recover from his brain injuries. 😆

[gonzosgirrl]

57 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I do think Sam was wrong . . . about the cake. Amy had gone years and years without killing and she specifically killed bad guys (which is also what Sam and Dean do, in case they have forgotten). But Dean rarely sees shades of gray on this stuff. And i think he is less inclined at this point.

Dean and Sam kill monsters, not bad guys. They have let some go, but Amy was killing humans (bad or not, she's not judge, jury and executioner) and if her son got sick again, no doubt she would do it again. This is an argument that generally never resolves, so I'll leave it at that.

I'll be curious to see if you feel the same way about shades of gray few episodes from now (no spoilers).

Edited December 13, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, The Companion said:

I do think Sam was wrong . . . about the cake. Amy had gone years and years without killing and she specifically killed bad guys (which is also what Sam and Dean do, in case they have forgotten). But Dean rarely sees shades of gray on this stuff. And i think he is less inclined at this point.

Yes, Sam was 100% wrong about the cake.  Cake can not hold a candle to pie.

Amy wasn't killing serial killers. She was killing drug dealers and drunk drivers. Good guys?  No.  People who had committed capital offenses?  Also, no.  Yes, by Sam and Dean's standards they probably should have killed each other.  But, that doesn't mean Amy gets a pass.  

3 hours ago, The Companion said:

Bringing it home for me was the stellar job the young actors did. This was a complete win for me, and i am surprised at how down so many people are on it. It sounds like there are repercussions down the road, though. So perhaps that will retroactively change my view. 

I also like this episode.  Young Sam and Amy were really sweet bonding over their crappy home life. Probably should put home in quotes.  And, it is undeniable that it was sad what happened.  Nobody was happy about it.  Dean didn't want to kill her.  But, if her kid got sick again, she would kill again.  Does beg the question of what will happen anyway if kid gets sick again, but no pre-emptive killing.

[The Companion]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Dean and Sam kill monsters, not bad guys. They have let some go, but Amy was killing humans (bad or not, she's not judge, jury and executioner) and if her son got sick again, no doubt she would do it again. This is an argument that generally never resolves, so I'll leave it at that.

I'll be curious to see if you feel the same way about shades of gray few episodes from now (no spoilers).

48 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yes, Sam was 100% wrong about the cake.  Cake can not hold a candle to pie.

Amy wasn't killing serial killers. She was killing drug dealers and drunk drivers. Good guys?  No.  People who had committed capital offenses?  Also, no.  Yes, by Sam and Dean's standards they probably should have killed each other.  But, that doesn't mean Amy gets a pass.  

I also like this episode.  Young Sam and Amy were really sweet bonding over their crappy home life. Probably should put home in quotes.  And, it is undeniable that it was sad what happened.  Nobody was happy about it.  Dean didn't want to kill her.  But, if her kid got sick again, she would kill again.  Does beg the question of what will happen anyway if kid gets sick again, but no pre-emptive killing.

Oh, I know. She can say she won't kill again but she will if her kid gets sick again. And like Mannequin 3, the crimes/actions don't merit the death penalty. But it is still hard to watch and Dean and Sam have killed innocents so there is a double standard in there. Plus we know their Dad killed a ghoul who only ate corpses. Dean is probably right or at least there isn't a right answer here. And i realize that my perspective may change.

Also, it seems likely more people will die because the kid's source of ethical food is gone, but what can you do? 

Anyway, i really loved the episode despite feeling sorry for the monster 

[MagnusHex]

Well, that sucked. And after everything I said about episode 2 too. Jesus Christ. One of you could have said something. lol

I don't know. I get why Dean ended up killing Amy because he's always been a knight templar about monsters, but this is just so disappointing after the terrific bond Dean and Sam has built up over the past two episodes. Now Sam is hiding shit from Dean - again - and Dean is also lying to Sam as well and perhaps doing what he thinks is best for Sam and everybody, coming off like a real tool. It's just one of those annoying CW tween drama that I guess will never really go away. All my high hopes for this season are now gone.

What frustrates me even more is how Dean left the kid alive. Look, if you're gonna go all knight templar on all monsters, then go all the way. Don't be a hypocritical bitch about it and ending up letting the kid (who has now lost his source of food) become the next serial killer.

And it's even more frustrating that Sam would have gotten a nice spotlight episode on him showing his tracking and hunting skills. Ever since season one, I've always wanted to be #TeamSam over #TeamDean because his character's more sensitive, nerdy and insecure side just resonated more with me, so even when his character became a big tool and a big fool, I kept waiting for his redemption to come. This episode could have been it, showing Sam in control and trying to make the best moral decision without being a dick about it.

At least Leviathan remains smart. Tracking credit cards and the Winchesters' aliases. That's probably the smartest thing the writers wrote this episode. Unfortunately.

3/5

[FlickChick]

I thought about warning you, but I figured, why burst your "bro" bubble. This season in general has various viewers either hating it or liking it. I saw both its good and bad sides depending on the writer or episode. Not only that, but get ready - Dean's actions in this episode will be brought up at least a few times this season. Never want to let a sleeping drama dog lie!😟

[MagnusHex]

10 hours ago, FlickChick said:

Not only that, but get ready - Dean's actions in this episode will be brought up at least a few times this season. Never want to let a sleeping drama dog lie!😟

I think the worst part is that Dean gave this impression immediately before the final scene that he trusts him now (letting him drive his Impala as a seeming gesture of goodwill), that he regretted using the word, "freak."

And then he said "the other shoe will drop" to Amy, the same phrase he used to describe Sam when he thought that Sam would just lose control again. Fucking disappointing, Dean. All that goodwill you displayed for your brother, your flesh and blood, in the scene immediately before this one - poof, gone. All so the writers could stir up the usual angst conflict nonsense between them. So much for character development.

Edited May 1 by MagnusHex

[FlickChick]

Yes, unfortunately the writers couldn't figure how to write good drama without making the brothers' personalities change from episode to episode or be at odds with one another. But overall, it was one of my favorite series as long as I didn't let all the writers' failures spoil it for me.