S20.E12: Bob Odenkirk; Mary Katharine Ham; Caitlin Flanagan.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Bill returns this week by interviewing comedian Bob Odenkirk and is joined for the panel discussion by CNN Commentator Mary Katharine Ham and writer at The Atlantic, Caitlin Flanagan.

Original air date 2022.04.22

[tessaray]

I just can't with this anymore. It isn't that masks aren't effective at all, they became much less effective when Omicron hit. I had to turn it off when he launched into twenty somethings and masks and anxiety. Ugh.

[HC87]

That had to be the amongst the worst panels in the history of the show. Do people just not want to be on this anymore? 

The Odenkirk interview was great to start the show....but it was absolute dreck after that.

[JNavarro]

I was mostly interesting in them discussing the Disney thing, and wow was that a dud.

The issue wasn't whether the Don't Say Gay bill was wrong, or whether companies should be politically neutral.  Honestly there are arguments to made on either of those issues and I'm fine with it. 

The issue was whether it's ideal that the power of the fucking STATE should be used against private entities for opposing government legislation and activity.   You can think Disney is filled with too many woke activists and/or should stay out of political debates and still have a totally different standard for whether the government can or should take that kind of step, independent of whatever Disney does.

Like, take a side on that one.  But they just went into logical fallacy/dogshit argument land.  To Bill's credit, he's sharp enough sometimes to sense that and reel them back in, but missed the ball here.  

Good on him for the New Rule, though.  

Edited April 23, 2022 by JNavarro

[aghst]

7 hours ago, tessaray said:

I just can't with this anymore. It isn't that masks aren't effective at all, they became much less effective when Omicron hit. I had to turn it off when he launched into twenty somethings and masks and anxiety. Ugh.

Hamm was all about "they lied at the beginning of the pandemic about masks!" so they can't be trusted any more.  No it was expediency because of mask shortages.  They didn't want a run on masks like the way people were hoarding TP and disinfectants.

Why, because doctors and nurses needed them, so it was OBVIOUS that they had some protective value.

They still do all the studies show some level of protection.  Not as much as we'd like or hope for but it's not nothing.  Vaccines have also proved less effective at preventing infection with Delta and Omicron.  But these idiots think vaccination is all you need.  Maybe but having more layers of protection is better than having fewer ones.

Maher has been saying if you want to mask you can, though it makes no sense to do it outdoors.  Now he said on this show he wants to punch the people who mask.

Hamm was going on about how kids least need protection.  Recently there was an estimate that as many as 200,000 American children lost a parent or both parents to covid.

Quote

In December, a coalition called the Covid Collaborative estimatedthat about 167,000 American children like Kimiya had lost a parent or primary caregiver to the pandemic, with much higher rates among communities of color. More recently, researchers at Imperial College London put the number of children who have lost one or both parents at nearly 200,000.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/04/12/well/family/covid-deaths-parents-grandparents.html

Children may not develop severe disease with anywhere near the frequency of adults but they've lost parents and some believe they may have infected their parents.  There is still no definitive word on the long-term impacts of covid.  Not just long covid but loss of brain and heart tissue.  We know these conditions can affect adults who've had "mild" or asymptomatic infections.

Covid is still way more deadly than the flu.  We've lost 90k people since early February, despite this "mild" Omicron variant.

Quote

Trevor Bedford, a computational biologist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, thinks it could be a bigger nuisance for us going forward than the annual flu season, even though Covid is now killing far fewer of the people it infects. Because of its high infectiousness, he thinks Covid-19 could cause about 60,000 deaths a year in the U.S., which is the equivalent of a very bad flu season. To put that in context, we’ve had more than 90,000 Covid deaths since early February.

https://www.statnews.com/2022/04/19/six-covid-mysteries-including-how-it-will-evolve/
 

Bill isn't an outright covid denier nor has he compared covid to the flu like the idiots in early 2020 (like Dr. Drew, colleague of Adam Corolla who's been angling to get on the show again and is suppose to appear in May).

But he's repeatedly trying to minimize the dangerousness of this pathogen.

 

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

That had to be the amongst the worst panels in the history of the show. Do people just not want to be on this anymore? 

Wouldn't surprise me. This has turned into a show about an old man griping about the same damn things week after week after week. What the hell did masks ever do to Bill Maher to piss him off this much? He actually wants to punch kids when he sees them wearing masks outdoors? WTF. If people want to wear masks, let them wear masks. Who are they hurting? Aside from Bill, apparently. 

People do all sorts of things that Bill doesn't believe in. They go to church. They get married. They have children. He doesn't go on TV every single week griping about this shit, what's so different about masks? Live and let live, Bill!

And I don't care how good ventilation is on a plane. I can't think of a more contagious environment than a metal tube packed with 150 people like sardines. And guess what? You don't have to eat when you're on a plane. Most airlines don't even serve food anymore.

Honestly - with everything going on right now, and I don't need to even make a list - Bill acts like the biggest problems in the world are masks, wokeness and cancel culture. That's what matters to him. Oh, and porn titles. We see what his priorities are.

I had to laugh when Bill said people his age are "imparting wisdom." HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Just because you're a cranky old man doesn't mean you're wise. Quite the opposite. 

What on earth did Mary Katharine Ham mean when she said she was quoting Fauci but she "wouldn't do the Italian accent." Italian accent? I've heard Fauci speak many times, I have never detected any kind of accent, Italian or otherwise. What kind of derogatory shit was that? You don't agree with Fauci (or any science) fine, but if you feel the need to mock someone at a grade-school level you don't belong anywhere near CNN. And was she defending DeSantis? Are we sure she's not from Fox News?

Caitlin Flanagan: "teachers and unions are too leftist." Gee, I wonder why. Maybe it's because teachers make shit for wages and are currently the most attacked profession in the country and unions try to support workers instead of elite, rich white celebrities on talk shows panels. Just spit-balling here. I guess if you want to be able to do your job, make a decent living and support the working class you're "too leftist." Good to know.

Edited April 23, 2022 by iMonrey

[tessaray]

42 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What on earth did Mary Katharine Ham mean when she said she was quoting Fauci but she "wouldn't do the Italian accent." Italian accent? I've heard Fauci speak many times, I have never detected any kind of accent, Italian or otherwise. What kind of derogatory shit was that?

I think Fauci has a slight Brooklyn accent. It's a little more noticeable when he's visibly tired or extra  animated. 

Because it was late and I couldn't stand another minute, I missed the "Don't say gay" discussion.  Did they bring up the Citizens United, corporations are people too principle some love so much? I think Disney might have a case there. 🤔

[The Solution]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

This has turned into a show about an old man griping about the same damn things week after week after week.

An old man who still thinks he's a rebellious young man. Sad.

[Poohbear617]

I agree with all of you about Bills attitudes towards masks. Complaining about them was the first thing he.mentioned in his new.special as well.  

I have been wearing a mask since 2013 when i.was diagnosed with a severe and rare autoimmune disease.  I was a high school teacher with 35 to 40 students at a.time in a crowded classroom with only 2 windows so purell and my mask were my only defense against catching anything that would cause.my disease to flare up.Since then i developed 2 additional autoimmune disorders that have left me physically diabled and forced me into retirement.  I got used to the stares.people would give me on public, but most assumed i had lung problems or cancer. Nowadays people see me in my mask and think i am some neurotic snowflake and have.made comments to me thinking my mask is a political statement. I am a liberal democrat living in a very red state, but i am not making a silly or paranoid statement with my mask, i am just trying to live my life and.protect myself from getting sick from other people.  Others out there still wearing their masks is their right and their business.   We are not bothering anyone Bill,  covid is not the only reason some wear masks.  We.are not as rich as you and cant afford to get sick or afford a trip to a doctor or hospital.  You dont like.me wearing my mask, well i dont like hearing you whine about it, so i will mask my hearing with earplugs and turn off your show.

[Pike Ludwell]

Interesting how Bill pretty much avoided talking about Better Call Saul till the final minute of the Odenkirk interview. He talks to other guests in current TV programs about their programs to a much greater extent. He must not be a fan of BCS.

[ICantDoThatDave]

I just assumed that was because Odenkirk was more pushing his book than Better Call Saul, except in how he got his role as Saul in relation to what he wrote in the book.  I don't think actors go around doing press to push the 6th & final season of their show as much as "their latest project" (the book in this case).  I don't think the interview guests come in "cold" to Bill's show, but rather that they set the stage (within limits) for what they'd like to discuss.

I do get where Bill is coming from with masks, although I think he goes too far with it.  They absolutely do provide protection, else why would doctors & surgeons wear them?  However I also agree that it's time to start relaxing, or even removing mandates, but I just don't agree with him on stigmatizing anyone who *chooses* to keep wearing them.  Who really cares if individuals choose to continue?  Just let them.  When my state removed the mandates, I stopped wearing mine everywhere (double-vax'd & boosted here, fwiw, as are my vulnerable parents) but I don't look askance at anyone who still wears one at the grocery store or wherever.

I've also noticed it seems most comedians, even very left-leaning ones, have generally been for opening things up & relaxing restrictions, & have been for a while now.  Bill is simply no exception here - Stephen Colbert is the same way.  It's that they crave the audience experience.  They need it.  It's what validates them.  They crave that feedback.  I think that explains his attitude towards masks, even though, as I mentioned, I think he goes too far with it.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Seat belts and condoms aren't 100% but you use them. Body armor isn't 100% but LEOs and military wear it. Sunscreen isn't 100% but we use it. Why? Because when death is a consequence you want whatever you can get. 

This is what pissed me off with the Disney shit. THIS IS AN ACTUAL, LITERAL VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMMENDMENT. IT IS ALSO CANCEL CULTURE. And they don't care I guess because look at these stupid woke "kids" with their weird identifying and they pronouns.

[Kenz]

I quit watching this show a long time ago, because Bill Maher is such a whiny, selfish, crabby old man, but I love Bob Odenkirk, so I watched for his interview and thought that I'd watch a bit more after that to see if things had improved. The conversations about masks made my blood boil. As others have previously mentioned, why should Maher care if others are wearing masks? Does he know what their medical conditions are, or maybe they are being careful to protect others in their families who are in poor health? My husband has kidney disease so we will continue to wear masks when in crowded places. Don't get me started on those two women commentators who giddily added to Maher's attitudes about masks. Their Disney comments were incoherent. No wonder I gave up on this show. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Kenz

[Pike Ludwell]

1 hour ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

I just assumed that was because Odenkirk was more pushing his book than Better Call Saul, except in how he got his role as Saul in relation to what he wrote in the book.  I don't think actors go around doing press to push the 6th & final season of their show as much as "their latest project" (the book in this case).  I don't think the interview guests come in "cold" to Bill's show, but rather that they set the stage (within limits) for what they'd like to discuss.

It was 12 minutes. They could have easily worked in both the book and BCS - his two current projects. Big hugely popular premier of BCS a few days before - shows go around pushing what's interesting to the public. That's the subject the public would have wanted more focus on. Whether because of Bill or Bob, just plain weird BCS only got like 45 seconds of talk.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Pike Ludwell

[ICantDoThatDave]

I mean, BCS season 5 topped out at about 1.6 million viewers, for the premier & the finale. That's "good for CW" numbers.  So I dunno how much "hugely popular" plays in here.  If Odenkirk felt like pushing his book, I can't really blame him.

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/better-call-saul-season-five-ratings/

[ICantDoThatDave]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Seat belts and condoms aren't 100% but you use them. Body armor isn't 100% but LEOs and military wear it. Sunscreen isn't 100% but we use it. Why? Because when death is a consequence you want whatever you can get.

Right, but you don't wear a seatbelt when you aren't driving.  You don't wear a condom around during the whole day.  You don't put on sunscreen first thing when you wake up.  You use them in appropriate circumstances.  No one goes swimming indoors with a condom, sunscreen, & a seatbelt on, for example, despite them being appropriate in other circumstances.

I really think that's all Bill is saying in regards to masks, although he is doing it hamfistedly, I admit - wear a mask when appropriate, not performatively.

[The Mighty Peanut]

43 minutes ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

Right, but you don't wear a seatbelt when you aren't driving.  You don't wear a condom around during the whole day.  You don't put on sunscreen first thing when you wake up.  You use them in appropriate circumstances.  No one goes swimming indoors with a condom, sunscreen, & a seatbelt on, for example, despite them being appropriate in other circumstances.

I really think that's all Bill is saying in regards to masks, although he is doing it hamfistedly, I admit - wear a mask when appropriate, not performatively.

Fair enough, but who is he to judge who is performing and who is taking a safety precaution? I think the majority of people who mask up do so because it provides some level of protection. Not to be vulgar but I probably don't need to use two forms of birth control...statistics show that 1 used correctly is fine...but I choose to because I really don't want to take any chances. I think that's what's going on with masks more than Gen Z wanting wokeness points. It is weird to wear them alone in the car or in an abandoned field or something, but I think it for the most part comes from a good place and a fear of a disease that for many has been devastating.

Edited April 24, 2022 by The Mighty Peanut

[ICantDoThatDave]

That is a fair push-back to Bill's take on masks.  Absolutely (see below).

30 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

1) It is weird to wear them alone in the car or in an abandoned field or something, 2) but I think it for the most part comes from a good place and a fear of a disease that for many has been devastating.

I inserted the numbers into your quote.  I think 1 is Bill's main point, & I sympathize with it.  But 2 is a very valid rebuttal I do wish someone on his panel would raise.  I honestly would like to hear his response to it.

[Victor the Crab]

I plan on wearing a mask for the foreseeable future, until it is safe to not wear it. If some micro dicked asswipe, like that bunghole Bill, tells me to take it off, they're going to be so fucking sorry they tried to confront this 6'5" 250 pound male about masks.

And in that bunghole Bill's case, he'd get it far worse. Like being hospitalized!

[Welshman in Ca]

17 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

It was 12 minutes. They could have easily worked in both the book and BCS - his two current projects. Big hugely popular premier of BCS a few days before - shows go around pushing what's interesting to the public. That's the subject the public would have wanted more focus on. Whether because of Bill or Bob, just plain weird BCS only got like 45 seconds of talk.

But he's not there to push BCS is he. The whole reason he's there is to push his book, no more no less, he doesn't give a flying fuck if you watch BCS or not he's already been paid for doing it and his book is what is putting food on the table going forward.

[Pike Ludwell]

6 hours ago, Welshman in Ca said:

But he's not there to push BCS is he. The whole reason he's there is to push his book, no more no less, he doesn't give a flying fuck if you watch BCS or not he's already been paid for doing it and his book is what is putting food on the table going forward.

There's all kinds of future benefits to him in pushing BCS to be even more popular. Future TV series, syndication, streaming deals, e.g. And it's what many were tuning in to see and are disappointed. So Bill had an interest in talking about it. And "he doesn't give a flying fuck if people watch BCS"?? Are you kidding me? He should. I repeat. It was weird to have so little discussion of it.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Pike Ludwell

[cali1981]

On 4/23/2022 at 9:38 AM, tessaray said:

I think Fauci has a slight Brooklyn accent. It's a little more noticeable when he's visibly tired or extra  animated. 

Because it was late and I couldn't stand another minute, I missed the "Don't say gay" discussion.  Did they bring up the Citizens United, corporations are people too principle some love so much? I think Disney might have a case there. 🤔

As a native son of the great Borough of Brooklyn, I'll confirm that there are times when Dr. Fauci's homeboy accent is noticeable. 🙂

[cali1981]

I forgot that the show was on this week and, based on the comments here, I'm glad that I did.  It sounded like a complete shit show of stupidity and intolerance.  Did Maher really say the he would like to punch people who mask up, even jokingly?  Talk about intolerant and stupid.  Once again, Bill's lack of empathy and his complete inability to put himself in anyone else's shoes is stunning.  Maybe he should get out and mingle with "the little people" on occasion and/or actually talk to people who choose, for whatever reason, to continue to wear masks.  He might benefit from the education that he appears to desperately need.

[MsTree]

9 hours ago, cali1981 said:

Did Maher really say the he would like to punch people who mask up, even jokingly? 

IIRC, he was only referring to people who are walking outside alone.

[cali1981]

17 hours ago, MsTree said:

IIRC, he was only referring to people who are walking outside alone.

Ah, but still, what precautions people are taking, for whatever reason, is none of his damn business.  

Edited April 26, 2022 by cali1981

[iMonrey]

Quote

There's all kinds of future benefits to him in pushing BCS to be even more popular. Future TV series, syndication, streaming deals, e.g. And it's what many were tuning in to see and are disappointed. So Bill had an interest in talking about it. And "he doesn't give a flying fuck if people watch BCS"?? Are you kidding me? He should. I repeat. It was weird to have so little discussion of it.

Odenkirk is on a book tour. He's been on at least two of my podcasts. Plus, he and Bill go way back, so Bill is more interested in talking to him about the good old days and their mutual friends and history. But I noticed both of them kept circling back to the book in that not-so-subtle way people selling their book do, by paraphrasing "As I wrote in the book" and "as you said in the book," etc. I'm sure Odenkirk cares about Better Call Saul but that's not what he's making the rounds for. He's probably got publicists backstage that would yell at him if he talks more about BCS than his book. And I don't think Bill watches BCS. He only watches a little bit of things rather than whole shows according to the interview he gave on Smartless. 

[izabella]

On 4/23/2022 at 9:40 AM, JNavarro said:

The issue wasn't whether the Don't Say Gay bill was wrong, or whether companies should be politically neutral.  Honestly there are arguments to made on either of those issues and I'm fine with it. 

The issue was whether it's ideal that the power of the fucking STATE should be used against private entities for opposing government legislation and activity.   You can think Disney is filled with too many woke activists and/or should stay out of political debates and still have a totally different standard for whether the government can or should take that kind of step, independent of whatever Disney does.

 

On 4/23/2022 at 11:38 AM, tessaray said:

Because it was late and I couldn't stand another minute, I missed the "Don't say gay" discussion.  Did they bring up the Citizens United, corporations are people too principle some love so much? I think Disney might have a case there. 🤔

The same people and politicians who cheered Citizens United because it allowed corporations to "speak" by donating to politicians, are the same people complaining when a corporation "speaks" with actual words in public rather than through their quiet donations of vast sums of money to politicians.  Disney quietly donated lots of money to GOP politicians who ended up passing "Don't Say Gay," and that was just fine.  But when Disney (facing an employee and customer backlash for staying quiet about the bill) spoke out against it, that was somehow a problem and the Governor and the state acted to punish them. 

But that is beyond Bill's panels to discuss cogently.  Cancel culture is perpetrated on Bill's show regularly, against stuff Bill wants to cancel.

[PixiesFan]

It is true.  Masks aren't very effective against preventing somebody from getting the virus.  Even small changes in the R0 of a virus can have significant affect on the number of people who become infected, though.  If everybody wearing masks only lessened an individual's chances of getting infected by a mere 10% (a number I pulled out of my ass), by 10 generations in you could effectively have half the number of cases.  Why do you think that red states have almost exclusively filled the top 10 slots for the most cases (and deaths) per capita since June of 2020?  All else being equal, it should be the other way around!  Blue states have much higher population density, after all.  Barring any other glaring factors, I would say this is a clear indication that masks ARE effective in preventing the spread of COVID, even if they only decrease an individual's chances of getting it only slightly.