Secrets Of Playboy - General Discussion

[Gharlane]

Quote

"The Aftermath". Former Playmates, girlfriends, and employees including Sondra Theodore, Susie Krabacher, Lisa Loving Barrett and Audrey Ann Huskey come together to share their experiences and struggles stemming from their time in the Playboy world. Alongside sex and trauma therapist Dr. Kate Balestrieri, the women reflect on the decades of fear and abuse they experienced and how the Playboy legacy has changed as a result of their decisions to come forward.

Ir was nice to see a reunion of the former Playmates who had been abused, but I really son;t like the Hollywood sex therapist. It seems like all she does is spout platitudes.🤷‍♂️

[SunnyBeBe]

I do wonder how many people were aware of the abuse by Hef.  I recall on the GND Hef and girls were guests on The View and they said they weren’t treated well.  I wonder if Barbara Walters was upset with Hef, not the girls.  

[Gharlane]

On 4/3/2022 at 12:28 PM, RealHousewife said:

Anyone check out secretsofplayboy on Reddit? There is a lot of information there. 

No, I didn't! It looks like I won't be getting much done at work today! 😃

On 4/3/2022 at 12:32 PM, Welshman in Ca said:

Hell would be fun for him being with his best bud. Put him upstairs where everything sounds boring & self righteous.

Why not a The Good Place scenario? 😈

13 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Holly says she was never a recruiter. She also addresses the Shannon twins being ghosted in the bedroom with Hef. 

I really don't feel like watching Holly comb her hair and putting on makeup until she gets to the interesting parts for 30 minutes. Can you give a synopsis, please? 🙏

12 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Interesting! Kendra sounds like the bitch I assumed she was. Was Bridget even in the documentary? Holly mentioned her part and I don’t remember it. 

Yeah, hearing how Kendra helped lure the Incest Twins into Hef's bedroom was surprising and disappointing.  As mentioned earlier, Brigette's appearance was easy to miss, but I did see her on the final ep. 

 

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I do wonder how many people were aware of the abuse by Hef.  I recall on the GND Hef and girls were guests on The View and they said they weren’t treated well.  I wonder if Barbara Walters was upset with Hef, not the girls.  

Did they elaborate on their mistreatment? I figured they were still singing his praises at that point.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Gharlane

[SunnyBeBe]

17 minutes ago, Gharlane said:

No, I didn't! It looks like I won't be getting much done at work today! 😃

Why not a The Good Place scenario? 😈

I really don't feel like watching Holly comb her hair and putting on makeup until she gets to the interesting parts for 30 minutes. Can you give a synopsis, please? 🙏

Yeah, hearing how Kendra helped lure the Incest Twins into Hef's bedroom was surprising and disappointing.  As mentioned earlier, Brigette's appearance was easy to miss, but I did see her on the final ep. 

 

Did they elaborate on their mistreatment? I figured they were still singing his praises at that point.

 

The girls seemed offended and even hurt by their perceived treatment.  They outwardly supported Hef on the show.  I suppose any opposition to him would have been edited out. 

[AryasMum]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:25 AM, Tatum said:

It is really sad. I mean, I get it in a way, the competition is totally fierce, In its heyday, probably thousands of women were submitting photos on a daily basis. And the ones who bothered to submit were already probably used to being one of the most attractive women in the room at any given time. Even not getting cut right off the bat was probably a major feat. So I get the ego boost thing, but at the end of the day, other than bragging rights, the majority of the women probably didn't get much out of it. Maybe some women thought it would launch their careers or  snag them a rich professional athlete husband (the latter at least, seems to happen with some regularity), but mostly it seemed to be a way for women with low self esteem to get validation.

I feel this way about The Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. These women are extremely athletic, educated, and well spoken. But they feel their ticket to success is selling T & A in barely there outfits, reverently baby whispering “yes ma’am”, and struggling to work secondary jobs while they pose for free in million dollar pin up calendars, and perform for minimum wage while the men make millions.  And we’re supposed to believe they’re the classic, wholesome, girls next door.  And like Hef, Jones makes his daughter the figurehead in an attempt to disguise the misogyny. 

On 2/3/2022 at 1:34 PM, Cinnabon said:

And what an empowering way for women to get validation, by posing nude for a magazine that millions of men will masturbate to. Instead of, you know, getting an education that may lead to a successful career and the ability to support oneself without a man, if a woman so desires. 

Yup. This always occurs to me when followers of a certain housewives show bang on about how the other women will never be “Denise Fucking Richards” who was on the cover of endless numbers of men’s magazines. Yep, Denise has probably been jerked off to more than any other housewife. Clearly that makes her the Queen. I’m so jealous. 

[RealHousewife]

 

2 hours ago, Gharlane said:

I really don't feel like watching Holly comb her hair and putting on makeup until she gets to the interesting parts for 30 minutes. Can you give a synopsis, please? 🙏

Yeah, hearing how Kendra helped lure the Incest Twins into Hef's bedroom was surprising and disappointing.  As mentioned earlier, Brigette's appearance was easy to miss, but I did see her on the final ep. 

Holly said there was recruiting when she and Bridget became girlfriends but that it had stopped. She didn't say a whole lot about Kendra and the twins because she wasn't there. My impression is she doesn't think the picture sounds pretty either, but that she didn't want to throw Kendra under the bus without firsthand knowledge. 

 

53 minutes ago, AryasMum said:

I feel this way about The Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. These women are extremely athletic, educated, and well spoken. But they feel their ticket to success is selling T & A in barely there outfits, reverently baby whispering “yes ma’am”, and struggling to work secondary jobs while they pose for free in million dollar pin up calendars, and perform for minimum wage while the men make millions.  And we’re supposed to believe they’re the classic, wholesome, girls next door.  And like Hef, Jones makes his daughter the figurehead in an attempt to disguise the misogyny. 

Yup. This always occurs to me when followers of a certain housewives show bang on about how the other women will never be “Denise Fucking Richards” who was on the cover of endless numbers of men’s magazines. Yep, Denise has probably been jerked off to more than any other housewife. Clearly that makes her the Queen. I’m so jealous. 

I think a lot of women sign up for things like cheerleader for the ego boost. As someone who was an ugly duckling growing up, I always yearned for validation, even when I wasn't so unfortunate looking anymore. Compliments are nice, but sometimes you wonder if people are just being nice. So while I grew up in a conservative household (even watching GND would be considered scandalous), I get these women to a degree. I was still surprised when I found out how little cheerleaders make though. I figure most women would only do it short term. I'm still stunned how many women want to pose for Playboy when only a few became stars afterwards.

Guilty as charged there! I am aware of the kinds of things Denise has done, and I'm not saying that makes her the queen. But I think her looks and fame can threaten some people. The women on that show tend to be very concerned with who's the most famous, most fabulous, has the most twitter followers, etc. So I think this Bond girl who's been famous for many years can cause some jealousy. I like Denise because she was one of the nicest on the show, but the women bullied her. Her sex life was not their business, and it was disgusting how much they all probed. Also, lots of women who've done BH have posed for Playboy-Camille, Lisa Rinna, and Garcelle. Not sure if I'm forgetting anybody, but like it or not, it's not just Denise.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, AryasMum said:

I feel this way about The Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. These women are extremely athletic, educated, and well spoken. But they feel their ticket to success is selling T & A in barely there outfits, reverently baby whispering “yes ma’am”, and struggling to work secondary jobs while they pose for free in million dollar pin up calendars, and perform for minimum wage while the men make millions.  And we’re supposed to believe they’re the classic, wholesome, girls next door.  And like Hef, Jones makes his daughter the figurehead in an attempt to disguise the misogyny. 

Yup. This always occurs to me when followers of a certain housewives show bang on about how the other women will never be “Denise Fucking Richards” who was on the cover of endless numbers of men’s magazines. Yep, Denise has probably been jerked off to more than any other housewife. Clearly that makes her the Queen. I’m so jealous. 

I agree!  Don’t get me started on Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders.  Omg, it’s sad, disgusting and shocking that livestock type display is still being aired!  Ugh….

 

Ref. Reference above about real housewives who have posed for Playboy.  I think also is Jeanna Kough from Orange County first season or two…can’t recall which. 
 

https://people.com/tv/rhoc-alum-jeana-keough-topless-portrait-artist-patrick-nagel-sells-350000/

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[RealHousewife]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree!  Don’t get me started on Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders.  Omg, it’s sad, disgusting and shocking that livestock type display is still being aired!  Ugh….

Do you think they should do away with cheerleaders entirely? When I was young I thought cheerleaders were so cool and wished I could be one. I wanted a pretty costume and to dance. My parents were against it. Now that I'm older, I see why some parents are against it.

What do you all think of places like Hooters? I'm not even the most conservative person, and I find the whole concept so tacky and degrading, even if Hooters girls are paid well. Where I live, there's Hooters, Twin Peaks and maybe others, but not a single place named after a part of a man's anatomy where they'retreated like pieces of meat, and families all dine together like it's normal. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Women have the right to work as they please, but what bothers me are young impressionable women lining up to fight for the chance to work for free or low wages , to make mega bucks for corporations.  All the while being inspected, criticized and kicked to the curb, cause they don’t make the cut.  It’s beyond cruel to me.  
 

I have no issue with adult film actors, models and sex workers if they are truly in charge of their decisions and safe.  I realize I’m in the minority, but I have no moral issue with it.  It’s the abuse, control and degradation by others that is concerning.  

[Gharlane]

Oh yeah, it was interesting ( but not totally surprising) that Hef's wife (Christina?) didn't seem to have stopped his shenanigans. 

 

25 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Ref. Reference above about real housewives who have posed for Playboy.  I think also is Jeanna Keough from Orange County first season or two…can’t recall which.

Yes, Jeana Keough was a former playmate. I wonder what she thought?

 

18 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

What do you all think of places like Hooters? I'm not even the most conservative person, and I find the whole concept so tacky and degrading, even if Hooters girls are paid well. Where I live, there's Hooters, Twin Peaks and maybe others, but not a single place named after a part of a man's anatomy where they're treated like pieces of meat, and families all dine together like it's normal. 

I'm pretty indifferent to Hooters, but yeah, it's a tacky and has no interest for me.

[RealHousewife]

14 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Women have the right to work as they please, but what bothers me are young impressionable women lining up to fight for the chance to work for free or low wages , to make mega bucks for corporations.  All the while being inspected, criticized and kicked to the curb, cause they don’t make the cut.  It’s beyond cruel to me.  
 

I have no issue with adult film actors, models and sex workers if they are truly in charge of their decisions and safe.  I realize I’m in the minority, but I have no moral issue with it.  It’s the abuse, control and degradation by others that is concerning.  

Oh I agree women should have the choice. With some of these choices, I just worry about the consequences, and if 18 is old enough to make those choices. You can't even drink until you're 21. I'm so curious how many women who did porn in their late teens still feel good about it once they're older? There is a huge difference between a job where you're scantily clad or even nude and having sex on camera. I'm not an expert, but I think so many of the women must have had some trauma. I think of the Shannon Twins and Jenna Jameson. 

I have heard women actually make great money at places like Hooters, but I don't know how much they make. A lot of it must be the tips. I still find a place that might as well be called boobs degrading and tacky. And it's one thing when young single men go in there, it's another when people go in as a family. I guess that's an unpopular opinion of mine. I know men like to look at beautiful women, but there's a difference for me between looking at a magazine or something online and ogling someone half your age in person with your wife and kids. 

With Playboy specifically, it seems like a mixed bag. There are Playmates who view it as art and had such a great experience they refuse to even consider the possibility Hef was anything less than a gentleman. Then there are those who are bitter they posed nude for the world to see and didn't get a whole lot out of it, and the images are out there forever. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by RealHousewife

[AryasMum]

44 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Do you think they should do away with cheerleaders entirely? When I was young I thought cheerleaders were so cool and wished I could be one. I wanted a pretty costume and to dance. My parents were against it. Now that I'm older, I see why some parents are against it.

What do you all think of places like Hooters? I'm not even the most conservative person, and I find the whole concept so tacky and degrading, even if Hooters girls are paid well. Where I live, there's Hooters, Twin Peaks and maybe others, but not a single place named after a part of a man's anatomy where they'retreated like pieces of meat, and families all dine together like it's normal. 

I’ve always teased I’m going to open a place called Nuts. The waiters are guys in uniforms with super snug crotches with adorable squirrels chewing an acorn. We will have a famous appetizer that all women can claim is the reason they just have to come eat at my place.  Husbands will be made to go with his family while his wife ogles the waiter’s package.  

[RealHousewife]

2 minutes ago, AryasMum said:

I’ve always teased I’m going to open a place called Nuts. The waiters are guys in uniforms with super snug crotches with adorable squirrels chewing an acorn. We will have a famous appetizer that all women can claim is the reason they just have to come eat at my place.  Husbands will be made to go with his family while his wife ogles the waiter’s package.  

lol! 

[Atlanta]

Saw episode 12. Poor Susie didn't know those outtakes were on porn sites. I had no idea either, but I'm not trolling for porn. LOL What makes the outtakes more scandalous than the pictures that make it into the magazine? I can understand not being happy that unflattering pictures of you are out there, but it was made to sound like they were not the 'art' PB tried to portray. In between poses, did a woman accidentally show something she didn't want while she adjusted her pose? 

I'm glad these women have each other now. Hef always made it sound like he was faithful when married, but we now know that's a big honking lie. 

As far as Hooters, yeah, it's weird, but I had some sorority sisters that worked there back in the 90s and got great tips. They tended to get better tips than our friends that worked at Applebees or similar place. I think the only time I've been in one is back in October 1995 watching the World Series and it happened to be a convenient place in walking distance from campus. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Atlanta

[Me from ME]

Unfortunately most women whose careers are based on looks don't realize until it is too late that their attractiveness will not last forever and would be best served to have a backup plan for that eventuality. It seems as if 98% of the women who worked as playmates didn't have any idea what they would do later in life.  I know someone who rode in horse shows. A freelance photographer noticed that she was strikingly beautiful and put her in contact with a modeling agency when she was in high school.  She did a few really big ad campaigns including one for Johnson & Johnson.  When she graduated from college she went to law school having left modelling far behind.

As far as the Shannon twins failure to differentiate, in January I visited the grave of the Bunker twins. They were once known as Chang and Eng, the Siamese twins.  They tired of show business and became farmers in North Carolina, and quite successfully. They married sisters who began to feud with each other so the twins built houses for each sister in different towns and would spend an equal amount of time in each sister's house. The twins fathered 21 children in all.  It seems to me that Karissa and Kristina should be able to see the benefit of developing their own personnas. I fear that when one passes away the other will be left totally isolated and friendless. (Chang and Eng died within 1 1/2 hours of each other because they were physically connected. It was later determined that one could have survived if there had been a quick surgical intervention.)

[qtpye]

6 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

 

Holly said there was recruiting when she and Bridget became girlfriends but that it had stopped. She didn't say a whole lot about Kendra and the twins because she wasn't there. My impression is she doesn't think the picture sounds pretty either, but that she didn't want to throw Kendra under the bus without firsthand knowledge. 

 

I think a lot of women sign up for things like cheerleader for the ego boost. As someone who was an ugly duckling growing up, I always yearned for validation, even when I wasn't so unfortunate looking anymore. Compliments are nice, but sometimes you wonder if people are just being nice. So while I grew up in a conservative household (even watching GND would be considered scandalous), I get these women to a degree. I was still surprised when I found out how little cheerleaders make though. I figure most women would only do it short term. I'm still stunned how many women want to pose for Playboy when only a few became stars afterwards.

Guilty as charged there! I am aware of the kinds of things Denise has done, and I'm not saying that makes her the queen. But I think her looks and fame can threaten some people. The women on that show tend to be very concerned with who's the most famous, most fabulous, has the most twitter followers, etc. So I think this Bond girl who's been famous for many years can cause some jealousy. I like Denise because she was one of the nicest on the show, but the women bullied her. Her sex life was not their business, and it was disgusting how much they all probed. Also, lots of women who've done BH have posed for Playboy-Camille, Lisa Rinna, and Garcelle. Not sure if I'm forgetting anybody, but like it or not, it's not just Denise.

I think when I was growing up there was a thought that if a woman met certain standards of beauty, that they would have a relatively easy life. It was based on the notion that a woman’s social capital was tied up to her looks. It was very objectifying but fascinating to me, a woman of color who would never meet up to those European standards of beauty.

Yes, you should want to use your brains but not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, lawyers, or engineer. What if you never did well at school or had the motivation to be a success? It was a thought that if you had the looks then some man would come and take care of you financially.

I guess even if many of the Playmates did not become stars, many of them did go on to marry rich men that they would never have met unless they had the Playboy connection.

It is all rather gross and gold digger like but felt relatively harmless.

Now, we find how nasty life behind the walls and it feels disgusting. The Dallas Cowboys is another example of how falling into the beauty trap hurts much more then it helps.

[Atlanta]

46 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I guess even if many of the Playmates did not become stars, many of them did go on to marry rich men that they would never have met unless they had the Playboy connection.

A lot of them married rock stars or successful actors. I think Tiffany Fallon is married to a country singer. I wish more had gone the Kelly Wearstler route and became a success in a completely different field. Take the money earned from the centerfold and use that to pay for college or trade school. Or use it as seed money to start a small business. Heather from "Selling Sunset" was a Playmate and now a realtor. Susie has done some amazing humanitarian work: https://haitichildren.org/team/susie-krabacher/  and Lisa Guerrero (the host) has had a successful career as a broadcast journalist. What other PMs have had success outside of the entertainment biz? As far as acting careers aside from Pam Anderson, Kelly Monaco has done well as a General Hospital actress and Donna D'Errico has had a moderate yet steady acting career.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Atlanta

[MCMLXXVII]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I think when I was growing up there was a thought that if a woman met certain standards of beauty, that they would have a relatively easy life. It was based on the notion that a woman’s social capital was tied up to her looks. It was very objectifying but fascinating to me, a woman of color who would never meet up to those European standards of beauty.

Yes, you should want to use your brains but not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, lawyers, or engineer. What if you never did well at school or had the motivation to be a success? It was a thought that if you had the looks then some man would come and take care of you financially.

I guess even if many of the Playmates did not become stars, many of them did go on to marry rich men that they would never have met unless they had the Playboy connection.

Exactly. I feel like if I had grown up thin and “hot” and had some different life options I’d totally have wanted to become a Playmate and date all my favorite rock stars. 😊

I feel like some of the anti-sex work mentality is rooted in classism. I’m not mad that another woman with less education/resources can leverage her looks to a better financial situation. 

[RealHousewife]

54 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

A lot of them married rock stars or successful actors. I think Tiffany Fallon is married to a country singer. I wish more had gone the Kelly Wearstler route and became a success in a completely different field. Take the money earned from the centerfold and use that to pay for college or trade school. Or use it as seed money to start a small business. Heather from "Selling Sunset" was a Playmate and now a realtor. Susie has done some amazing humanitarian work: https://haitichildren.org/team/susie-krabacher/  and Lisa Guerrero (the host) has had a successful career as a broadcast journalist. What other PMs have had success outside of the entertainment biz? As far as acting careers aside from Pam Anderson, Kelly Monaco has done well as a General Hospital actress and Donna D'Errico has had a moderate yet steady acting career.

True. Hope Dworaczyk is with a billionaire. Heather Kozar married Tim Couch. Divini Rae married a doctor. I'm curious if these women would have still been able to meet these men if it weren't for Playboy. I'm also curious if there are men who wouldn't be thrilled about marrying a Playmate, no matter how pretty. I read somewhere that Kathy Hilton was offered to do Playboy many years ago but was talked out of it because it was seen as low class and something rich men look down upon. I think Paris also said Hef was after her for years but she always turned it down. 

20 minutes ago, MCMLXXVII said:

Exactly. I feel like if I had grown up thin and “hot” and had some different life options I’d totally have wanted to become a Playmate and date all my favorite rock stars. 😊

I feel like some of the anti-sex work mentality is rooted in classism. I’m not mad that another woman with less education/resources can leverage her looks to a better financial situation. 

I think for some people nudity is no big deal, so they see Playboy as modeling. I'm not sure about porn though. If a woman has no problem doing it, more power to her. I just can't personally wrap my head around it not being traumatic. 

With things like Hooters, even though I hate the concept, I understand a young woman paying her way through college or whatever being willing to do the job. Honestly though, if you're good-looking, you should make good money serving anywhere. 

When I was younger I thought if Playboy Clubs were still around, that's the one risqué gig I may have considered. It came across more glamorous than Hooters to me, you didn't have to get naked like a Playmate, and the money was good. I was so disturbed by all the abuse those poor Bunnies suffered through. :(

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I think when I was growing up there was a thought that if a woman met certain standards of beauty, that they would have a relatively easy life. It was based on the notion that a woman’s social capital was tied up to her looks. It was very objectifying but fascinating to me, a woman of color who would never meet up to those European standards of beauty.

Yes, you should want to use your brains but not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, lawyers, or engineer. What if you never did well at school or had the motivation to be a success? It was a thought that if you had the looks then some man would come and take care of you financially.

I guess even if many of the Playmates did not become stars, many of them did go on to marry rich men that they would never have met unless they had the Playboy connection.

It is all rather gross and gold digger like but felt relatively harmless.

Now, we find how nasty life behind the walls and it feels disgusting. The Dallas Cowboys is another example of how falling into the beauty trap hurts much more then it helps.

Same. I grew up wanting to be pretty so badly, and luckily I did have a bit of a glow-up. But what I found is even when I wasn't so ugly anymore, I still picked at flaws. Now I know men find me attractive, but I will stress over acne or cellulite or whatever. There are always things that could use improvement and other attractive women around. I think even the most beautiful women in the world deal with it though. Elizabeth Taylor was a goddess to me. But she had insecurities about her looks and was threatened by Sharon Tate and Sophia Loren. 

True. That's one reason why I don't judge Kendra or the Shannon Twins too much. And I'm not calling these women stupid either. But I don't think any of them grew up with great childhoods or education. 

With a lot of these women, I wonder if their lives would have been happier if they weren't good-looking. As much as I wish I looked like her, I mentioned Dorothy's beauty almost seemed like a curse. If she didn't have that perfect face and figure, maybe she would have married a nice man who didn't want to exploit her, became a teacher, and be retired enjoying grandkids now. It's so tragic. 

If the twins weren't young pretty blondes, maybe they could have looked into getting some type of training and dating men their own age instead of the Playboy route. 

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

True. Hope Dworaczyk is with a billionaire. Heather Kozar married Tim Couch. Divini Rae married a doctor. I'm curious if these women would have still been able to meet these men if it weren't for Playboy. I'm also curious if there are men who wouldn't be thrilled about marrying a Playmate, no matter how pretty. I read somewhere that Kathy Hilton was offered to do Playboy many years ago but was talked out of it because it was seen as low class and something rich men look down upon. I think Paris also said Hef was after her for years but she always turned it down. 

I think it totally depends on the kind of rich man. There are rich men who want their wives to be classy and have a good education. Are you looking for a woman to be your life partner or great eye candy or both? They would dislike any woman who posed for this type of magazine.

Also, I think Playboy was considered much more respectable in the 90s then compared to when Kathy Hilton grew up. Being a Playboy model almost became a badge of honor for a certain type of person and that type of person attracted a certain type of guy.

Pamela married Tommy Lee and Donna D'Errico married Nikki Six, both rock stars from Motley Crue. 

I think Barbie Benton also married a very rich man.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by qtpye

[Atlanta]

I think also part of the Playboy glamour was they were considered the most beautiful women on earth. You can be a high fashion model, but many of them are unconventionally beautiful and have to be extremely thin and at least 5'8" (Kate Moss is the height exception at 5'7"). Also, Penthouse and Hustler were not considered as 'wholesome' or arty as PB if a woman wanted to do the glamour model route. I remember Jenny McCarthy went to a regular modeling agency in Chicago, but they referred her to PB.   

A weird coincidence, an acquaintance is friends with Heather Kozar. My acquaintance could have easily been a centerfold minus the bright blond hair.  

[RealHousewife]

22 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think it totally depends on the kind of rich man. There are rich men who want their wives to be classy and have a good education. Are you looking for a woman to be your life partner or great eye candy or both? They would dislike any woman who posed for this type of magazine.

Also, I think Playboy was considered much more respectable in the 90s then compared to when Kathy Hilton grew up. Being a Playboy model almost became a badge of honor for a certain type of person and that type of person attracted a certain type of guy.

Pamela married Tommy Lee and Donna D'Errico married Nikki Six, both rocks stars from Motley Crue. 

I think Barbie Benton also married a very rich man.

Oh very true! Yeah I can't imagine a rock star having an issue with Playboy. lol I would just think he's the kind of man who thinks he can do whatever but a woman can't. I'm not sure about successful business men, oil money, doctors, and whatnot. I guess it depends on the individual. 

18 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

I think also part of the Playboy glamour was they were considered the most beautiful women on earth. You can be a high fashion model, but many of them are unconventionally beautiful and have to be extremely thin and at least 5'8" (Kate Moss is the height exception at 5'7"). Also, Penthouse and Hustler were not considered as 'wholesome' or arty as PB if a woman wanted to do the glamour model route. I remember Jenny McCarthy went to a regular modeling agency in Chicago, but they referred her to PB.   

A weird coincidence, an acquaintance is friends with Heather Kozar. My acquaintance could have easily been a centerfold minus the bright blond hair.  

True! To be honest, I do think Playmates vary considerably from cute college blondes to the most beautiful women on earth types. I do think supermodels are quite beautiful, but yeah a lot of high fashion models are just extremely tall and thin. Bridget said when she was very little Playboy set her standard of beauty. While I think it was wrong for such a small child to be exposed to it, I get it as an adult. I would rather look like a Playmate than a high fashion model myself. 

Uhh I looked up Playboy on reddit recently, and it's no longer any different than what I understand Penthouse and Hustler are. There are models who show everything. I guess it all changed once Hef was no longer in charge. 

Yeah Jenny is pretty but doesn't have the high fashion look, definitely more Playmate.

How funny! Your acquaintance must be quite pretty. Holly said Heather was her favorite Playmate for the longest time. I can see why. She has a Marilyn Monroe look to her. 

[MCMLXXVII]

1 hour ago, Atlanta said:

I think also part of the Playboy glamour was they were considered the most beautiful women on earth. You can be a high fashion model, but many of them are unconventionally beautiful and have to be extremely thin and at least 5'8" (Kate Moss is the height exception at 5'7"). Also, Penthouse and Hustler were not considered as 'wholesome' or arty as PB if a woman wanted to do the glamour model route. I remember Jenny McCarthy went to a regular modeling agency in Chicago, but they referred her to PB.   

A weird coincidence, an acquaintance is friends with Heather Kozar. My acquaintance could have easily been a centerfold minus the bright blond hair.  

Right, and by the late 90s Playboy was considered pretty mainstream. Cindy Crawford, Naomi Campbell, and Angie Everhart all had “artsy” nude pictorials. 

[RealHousewife]

Watching last night's episode.

God Hef was such a pig. 

 

[Atlanta]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

How funny! Your acquaintance must be quite pretty. Holly said Heather was her favorite Playmate for the longest time. I can see why. She has a Marilyn Monroe look to her. 

Yes, she is a stunning woman with auburn hair. She's a devout Christian so that may be the only reason she didn't pose nude. I remember when Hef passed, people were flooding her Facebook. I think she may have also had a cousin who was a PM. 

[princelina]

15 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I do wonder how many people were aware of the abuse by Hef.  I recall on the GND Hef and girls were guests on The View and they said they weren’t treated well.  I wonder if Barbara Walters was upset with Hef, not the girls.  

 

14 hours ago, Gharlane said:

Did they elaborate on their mistreatment? I figured they were still singing his praises at that point.

From what I recall they were pissed that the View ladies asked some questions about their "relationship"/sex life.  They all got in the car and whined to Hef with big eyes going, "I don't know why people are interested in that!" 😄. Like the teen with the purple mohawk whining that everyone's staring at her hair 😄

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

Now, we find how nasty life behind the walls and it feels disgusting.

 

3 hours ago, MCMLXXVII said:

I feel like some of the anti-sex work mentality is rooted in classism. I’m not mad that another woman with less education/resources can leverage her looks to a better financial situation. 

The above is my reason for my anti-sex work mentality.  Every woman we heard on this documentary went to Playboy to leverage her looks to a better financial situation - they were not expecting what they got.  I can't believe that actual sex work is any better, and I can totally see how it would become a degrading trap that for various reasons they feel they can't get out of.

[Athena5217]

I loved Holly’s face when she read Hef’s description of the ideal Playmate and tossed it on the table. That part about “well washed with soap and water” was so weird. 

[Atlanta]

I also want to chime in that women are complicated. 

When I think of 'sex work', I'm thinking prostitution or porn vids. Posing nude or stripping is different from taking money for sex. Call me a prude, but I'm not cool with trading sex for money. A friend made bad choices and lost her scholarship in college, but stripped to make money for school. She became an elementary school teacher and is married with two daughters. Now a successful mom blogger (she makes more money at that than teaching). I had no idea she stripped until another mutual friend said that (she thought I knew). She's the last person I would think would do that. She is a gentle and sweet person. 

I also worked with an outreach called Victoria's Friends that helps women leave that life of stripping. No woman does that as a first choice. People want to justify it by saying, "she's making money for school." For some women that is true. I could have taken that way to pay for my uni expenses. I am petite but was considered 'hot' (not my thinking--many years after high school I got messages from guys who were afraid to ask me out. I thought I was the plague in HS--I was dateless since I didn't put out). I would either not respond or say a polite, "Thank you." I got my degree the old school way with working on campus and a small student loan. After I got married to a fab dude (we're raising a fab teen girl who wants to be a lawyer), he encouraged me to get my Masters. 

[Cinnabon]

12 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Do you think they should do away with cheerleaders entirely? When I was young I thought cheerleaders were so cool and wished I could be one. I wanted a pretty costume and to dance. My parents were against it. Now that I'm older, I see why some parents are against it.

What do you all think of places like Hooters? I'm not even the most conservative person, and I find the whole concept so tacky and degrading, even if Hooters girls are paid well. Where I live, there's Hooters, Twin Peaks and maybe others, but not a single place named after a part of a man's anatomy where they'retreated like pieces of meat, and families all dine together like it's normal. 

Cheerleaders who only exist to be ogled and support men’s endeavors make me sad. But some cheerleading squads are amazing when they compete as athletes in their own right. We had an amazing drill team in my high school who wore the fun costumes and were amazing dancers. They performed on their own (they were NOT cheerleaders) and not simply as eye candy and support to men. One year they were chosen to perform at the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade.

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think it totally depends on the kind of rich man. There are rich men who want their wives to be classy and have a good education. Are you looking for a woman to be your life partner or great eye candy or both? They would dislike any woman who posed for this type of magazine.

Also, I think Playboy was considered much more respectable in the 90s then compared to when Kathy Hilton grew up. Being a Playboy model almost became a badge of honor for a certain type of person and that type of person attracted a certain type of guy.

Pamela married Tommy Lee and Donna D'Errico married Nikki Six, both rock stars from Motley Crue. 

I think Barbie Benton also married a very rich man.

 

 

They married the rock stars, sure, but also divorced them. I was into musicians and bands my whole life (not the types who were into Playboy type women), but I’m glad now that I never married one.

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, Atlanta said:

I think also part of the Playboy glamour was they were considered the most beautiful women on earth. You can be a high fashion model, but many of them are unconventionally beautiful and have to be extremely thin and at least 5'8" (Kate Moss is the height exception at 5'7"). Also, Penthouse and Hustler were not considered as 'wholesome' or arty as PB if a woman wanted to do the glamour model route. I remember Jenny McCarthy went to a regular modeling agency in Chicago, but they referred her to PB.   

A weird coincidence, an acquaintance is friends with Heather Kozar. My acquaintance could have easily been a centerfold minus the bright blond hair.  

In my day (I was 22 in 1990), most of the men I knew were more into Victoria’s Secret models than Playboy centerfolds and porn stars. This was when most of the VS models were more natural and not extremely thin with unnaturally large breasts. I had kind of the VS hair and a couple times was compared to them (I had naturally large breasts but I was never super thin) by men. It made me feel a little uncomfortable and not particularly flattered though.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Athena5217 said:

I loved Holly’s face when she read Hef’s description of the ideal Playmate and tossed it on the table. That part about “well washed with soap and water” was so weird. 

Have you heard about the baths Hef made all women take before his “orgies?” Bridget and Holly are said to have led women into the bath and given instructions on how to properly clean themselves. Holly claims that they weren’t involved in recruiting the women for those nights, but several women have confirmed that they directed the bath time (gross!) Hef insisted on all that but still refused to use condoms with the women. Sickening.

[1011101010001]

6 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Have you heard about the baths Hef made all women take before his “orgies?” Bridget and Holly are said to have led women into the bath and given instructions on how to properly clean themselves. Holly claims that they weren’t involved in recruiting the women for those nights, but several women have confirmed that they directed the bath time (gross!) Hef insisted on all that but still refused to use condoms with the women. Sickening.

I suppose it’s like a hooker wiping a john with a wet rag as if that is going to accomplish much.

[Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, MrBuhBye said:

I suppose it’s like a hooker wiping a john with a wet rag as if that is going to accomplish much.

So demeaning and disgusting.

[Nicmar]

15 hours ago, Me from ME said:

Unfortunately most women whose careers are based on looks don't realize until it is too late that their attractiveness will not last forever and would be best served to have a backup plan for that eventuality. It seems as if 98% of the women who worked as playmates didn't have any idea what they would do later in life.  I know someone who rode in horse shows. A freelance photographer noticed that she was strikingly beautiful and put her in contact with a modeling agency when she was in high school.  She did a few really big ad campaigns including one for Johnson & Johnson.  When she graduated from college she went to law school having left modelling far behind.

As far as the Shannon twins failure to differentiate, in January I visited the grave of the Bunker twins. They were once known as Chang and Eng, the Siamese twins.  They tired of show business and became farmers in North Carolina, and quite successfully. They married sisters who began to feud with each other so the twins built houses for each sister in different towns and would spend an equal amount of time in each sister's house. The twins fathered 21 children in all.  It seems to me that Karissa and Kristina should be able to see the benefit of developing their own personnas. I fear that when one passes away the other will be left totally isolated and friendless. (Chang and Eng died within 1 1/2 hours of each other because they were physically connected. It was later determined that one could have survived if there had been a quick surgical intervention.)

I remember those Twins Chang and Eng! 

[RealHousewife]

10 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Cheerleaders who only exist to be ogled and support men’s endeavors make me sad. But some cheerleading squads are amazing when they compete as athletes in their own right. We had an amazing drill team in my high school who wore the fun costumes and were amazing dancers. They performed on their own (they were NOT cheerleaders) and not simply as eye candy and support to men. One year they were chosen to perform at the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade.

I like this perspective! I always admired the talent of cheerleading. Those stunts are not easy. 

[Gharlane]

23 hours ago, AryasMum said:

I’ve always teased I’m going to open a place called Nuts. The waiters are guys in uniforms with super snug crotches with adorable squirrels chewing an acorn. We will have a famous appetizer that all women can claim is the reason they just have to come eat at my place.  Husbands will be made to go with his family while his wife ogles the waiter’s package.  

I had the same idea, but it would be called Peckers and its logo would be a bird face with a huge long beak facing you. 🦉

 🤣

 

22 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Saw episode 12. Poor Susie didn't know those outtakes were on porn sites. I had no idea either, but I'm not trolling for porn. LOL What makes the outtakes more scandalous than the pictures that make it into the magazine? I can understand not being happy that unflattering pictures of you are out there, but it was made to sound like they were not the 'art' PB tried to portray. In between poses, did a woman accidentally show something she didn't want while she adjusted her pose? 

I think it was mentioned in an earlier ep. The photographers didn't limit their activity to when the women were on the stage(?) but were told they'd do nothing with what they were taking.

 

13 hours ago, princelina said:

From what I recall they were pissed that The View ladies asked some questions about their "relationship"/sex life.  They all got in the car and whined to Hef with big eyes going, "I don't know why people are interested in that!" 😄. Like the teen with the purple mohawk whining that everyone's staring at her hair 😄

Ah, that rings a bell! I think there was a segment on The Soup about it.

 

13 hours ago, Atlanta said:

I also worked with an outreach called Victoria's Friends that helps women leave that life of stripping.

Victoria's Friends? Was certain Real Housewife involved and did it take place on a cruise ship? 🤔

Edited April 6, 2022 by Gharlane

[SunnyBeBe]

Also, on The View…I think the girlfriends were also upset that they were made to sit on one stool!  Everyone else got their own.  Anyone recall that?  It’s been a long time ago.  

[1011101010001]

22 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Also, on The View…I think the girlfriends were also upset that they were made to sit on one stool!  Everyone else got their own.  Anyone recall that?  It’s been a long time ago.  

You mean a stool other than Hef?

[SunnyBeBe]

That’s funny.  Yeah, Hef got a stool as did the View panel, but the girlfriends shared one.  Not very nice.  

[1011101010001]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That’s funny.  Yeah, Hef got a stool as did the View panel, but the girlfriends shared one.  Not very nice.  

I meant he is a stool sample.

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Also, on The View…I think the girlfriends were also upset that they were made to sit on one stool!  Everyone else got their own.  Anyone recall that?  It’s been a long time ago.  

I never watched the interview. I tried searching for it and had no luck. What I remember from GND was that they had all three girlfriends sit together but that they were mocked like "you always sit together like that?"

Bridget was really excited to meet Barbara because she was a journalism major. She said Barbara greeted her coldly "and you are?" The only person they said was kind to them was Meredith. 

[SunnyBeBe]

14 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I never watched the interview. I tried searching for it and had no luck. What I remember from GND was that they had all three girlfriends sit together but that they were mocked like "you always sit together like that?"

Bridget was really excited to meet Barbara because she was a journalism major. She said Barbara greeted her coldly "and you are?" The only person they said was kind to them was Meredith. 

I wish it was handy. You’re right about the details, but I do think the producers bunched them on one seat and then questioned them about it.  I doubt I’ll have time to explore it more.  

[chediavolo]

30 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I never watched the interview. I tried searching for it and had no luck. What I remember from GND was that they had all three girlfriends sit together but that they were mocked like "you always sit together like that?"

Bridget was really excited to meet Barbara because she was a journalism major. She said Barbara greeted her coldly "and you are?" The only person they said was kind to them was Meredith. 

Barbara was a bitch anyway

[SunnyBeBe]

You never hear anything about Barbara.  I suspect I know why.

[qtpye]

6 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I like this perspective! I always admired the talent of cheerleading. Those stunts are not easy. 

It is also one of the most dangerous competitive sports yet the females wear absolutely no protective gear because it will interfere with the "look".

[Cinnabon]

11 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I like this perspective! I always admired the talent of cheerleading. Those stunts are not easy. 

I didn’t appreciate it at all until I saw “Bring it On” lol. Not generally my type of movie but I really enjoyed it.

6 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I never watched the interview. I tried searching for it and had no luck. What I remember from GND was that they had all three girlfriends sit together but that they were mocked like "you always sit together like that?"

Bridget was really excited to meet Barbara because she was a journalism major. She said Barbara greeted her coldly "and you are?" The only person they said was kind to them was Meredith. 

I’m sure Barbara didn’t have much respect for the path Bridget chose. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Cinnabon

[TrixieTrue]

12 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I never watched the interview. I tried searching for it and had no luck. What I remember from GND was that they had all three girlfriends sit together but that they were mocked like "you always sit together like that?"

Bridget was really excited to meet Barbara because she was a journalism major. She said Barbara greeted her coldly "and you are?" The only person they said was kind to them was Meredith. 

I think it's one of the clips that's not available on YouTube. I've looked for it before, too, and have never been able to find it. I'm wondering if the View panel got a lot of criticism and made sure those clips stayed off the internet. 

[chediavolo]

13 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

You never hear anything about Barbara.  I suspect I know why.

Isn’t she dead? Not that I care😁

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Isn’t she dead? Not that I care😁

She’s still alive.  She seemed to have cognitive decline, even before she left The View.