S23.E10: Silent Night, Hateful Night

[WendyCR72]

A little late, but it appears we get a Christmas episode. Airs January 6, 2022:

Quote

The SVU is called in to help investigate a wave of hate crimes on Christmas Eve. Rollins catches up with an old flame.

 

[CrystalBlue]

Well, Orthodox Christmas Day is January 7, 2022.  Merry Christmas to those who celebrate on this date.  Enjoy!

[wknt3]

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Well, Orthodox Christmas Day is January 7, 2022.  Merry Christmas to those who celebrate on this date.  Enjoy!

I'm pretty sure that the show is not Orthodox. At least based upon my limited understanding of theology and my unfortunately much less limited observation of the worship of Liv above all else. Actually I'm surprised that they don't hold the episode a couple more weeks so that they could air it right before Mariska's birthday...

[Xeliou66]

I look forward to seeing Murphy again in this one now that I know Carisi isn’t going to be in it and we won’t have any soapy drama there. Other than that, the plot sounds like stuff we’ve seen before on SVU, I hope they can put something original on it rather than having a typical cliched hate crimes episode with clunky dialogue and cardboard characters. 

[dttruman]

On 12/29/2021 at 1:05 AM, WendyCR72 said:

A little late, but it appears we get a Christmas episode. Airs January 6, 2022:

Quote

The SVU is called in to help investigate a wave of hate crimes on Christmas Eve. Rollins catches up with an old flame.

Since this episode is going to involve Rollins, then it will probably be a little more than the usual. And since, "Rollins catches up with an old flame", I going to assume this will take up a lot of the episode time.

I wonder how the producers and writers are going to portray this wave of hate crimes? Will it be something ripped from the headlines where seniors are the ones targeted or maybe even Asian seniors? Will the perpetrators be a gang of high schoolers and young adults or will they blame it on some white supremacists? I wonder if it will be a social message, where the system breaks down and the mentally ill are ignored or not helped and allowed to go out and run amok and the NYPD catches all the flack?

[dttruman]

I just saw a preview of this episode and I wouldn't exactly call it a "series of hate crimes". When the suspect is a bomber, then there is a little more to it. I was assuming a person or group was just focusing on a certain type of individuals, like some of the random attacks we have seen lately coming from NYC.

Edited January 9, 2022 by dttruman

[CrystalBlue]

Apparently Donal Logue is making his comeback in this epi!  Wearing glasses.  I guess he's Rollins' "old flame" and I'm wondering now if they will acknowledge he's the older daughter's baby daddy as well.

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Apparently Donal Logue is making his comeback in this epi!  Wearing glasses.  I guess he's Rollins' "old flame" and I'm wondering now if they will acknowledge he's the older daughter's baby daddy as well.

Are they going to use this as an excuse to make up something melodramatic where he may sue for custody or at least some visitation time?

[Ms Blue Jay]

What was that ending??????? LOL

[dttruman]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

What was that ending??????? LOL

Just a sudden ending making Benson look like a badass. I guess it's better than having her use her low voice and convincing them to surrender. IMO, I would have liked to have seen Fin take the shot.

Edited January 7, 2022 by dttruman

[dttruman]

I thought they had a good premise again, but the writers really made the FBI and McGrath look so incompetent to make Benson and the others look so important. The plot and the pace was pretty good I am sure the FBI doesn't act that stupid. Dick Wolf 's FBI show on CBS acts so much more responsible and professional. I have not seen McGrath act so irresponsible and making such stupid decisions, By the way, did they actually identify if he was the one who gave the order to release the video of the kids? I don't think they answered that question.

As for Murphy and Rollins, when they had their little conversation as they were walking down the sidewalk. Rollins mentioned that it was her idea to raise their kid alone, but what gets me is she wasn't exactly in the best shape to take care of the kid considering her family life, which could have been syndicated for an all soap opera channel. Is Rollins' father still alive or has he recovered from his drug abusing ways? I ask that question, because when Rollins was on the phone with her daughter (I think?) she mentioned to talk to her grandma and grandpa.

[Xeliou66]

Not great, not as bad as most SVU’s this season. There were some good parts and things to like about this one despite it being ultimately pretty predictable and the mastermind a typical cartoon cliched villain.

I did like the intensity of the investigation, and having a lot of players involved, it made things feel more real with having a lot of people involved rather than just SVU. It made for an action packed intense hour.

It was very nice to see Murphy again, he’s a cool guy and it was nice to see him leading his own task force, I hope he crosses paths with SVU again some. His presence really improved the episode and he commands the screen when he’s on, so having him in a big role really helped the episode.

I liked Murphy’s task force pretty good, and good continuity having Khaldun and Ruiz on the task force, both of whom we’ve seen before.

The investigation parts were decent and there was good detective work, but ultimately everything was predictable - it was glaringly obvious the dude with the dog would be involved, and we knew the identity of the ultimate villain from the start with his cringeworthy racist rant complete with phony accent. It felt like stuff we’ve seen before. Only part I didn’t see coming was that the black kids who did the anti Semitic attacks weren’t involved in the bigger plot, it was just coincidence.

Benson bugged me some as always, Mariska’s overacting in the interrogation room and in the final scene at the end was glaringly obvious, it really stands out how they want us to see St Olivia as super awesome but it’s just cringeworthy. Minus points for shoehorning in Noah the brat in a pointless scene.

And can they please get rid of McGrath ASAP, he’s so one dimensional, and of course the feds were even more one dimensional idiots than McGrath.

Thankfully they didn’t shoehorn Carisi in to create drama between Carisi/Rollins/Murphy.

So the good parts were the intensity of the case, Murphy, a lot of people involved in the case and some decent detective work. The bad parts were the predictability of the case, a lot of it felt like unoriginal stuff we’ve seen before. 

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked Murphy’s task force pretty good, and good continuity having Khaldun and Ruiz on the task force, both of whom we’ve seen before.

Is thls the kickoff for the next spinoff Law & Order: Special Victims Unit: Hate Crimes? I like the looks of the team, but I question the amount of material they will have to use. I wonder if it will kind of go stale

[TotalDrama]

16 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Is thls the kickoff for the next spinoff Law & Order: Special Victims Unit: Hate Crimes? I like the looks of the team, but I question the amount of material they will have to use. I wonder if it will kind of go stale

It seems that way and I point this in out in my prior comment above yours, but as I also stated they shouldn't bother. The L&O revival is happening and there's already two L&O shows on the air and we're about to have three. To throw in another anytime soon would be too much so they're just best not greenlighting this one. And the hate crime thing I can't see stretching enough to make a whole season of a show and it being continuous for years and years as normal as the other shows have done, even a half of season of episodes. Things like this seems to occur on rare occasions so they're just best keeping them part of an existing show that pop up now and then if it ties into the existing show's unit whether it be SVU, OC or homicide.

[dttruman]

8 minutes ago, TotalDrama said:

Seems like you just need to stop watching the show altogether. You hate it so much and it's sad. I don't mind how it is now, even if there's writing choices and character whereabouts I could be delving in better. But it's far from being unbearable to me. I think you can ease up on it some more. 

I thought it was a good honest assessment.  He mentioned some good points and some bad ones about the episode that I think we can all agree upon. He also gave some personal opinions that we are all entitled to give.

If you have watched many of the SVU episodes over the last 5-8 years you probably noticed that they have taken good story lines that could have been 2 or 3 parters and crunched them into a single episode. They may also leave out certain details that leave us scratching our heads and wondering how that course of action could have taken place or wondering that some blatant actions violate police protocol. We just point out some of the show's short comings.

 

[wknt3]

The Good:
Donal Logue! He still has screen presence to spare and the ability to pull off and elevate whatever he is given. I'm hoping this is a backdoor pilot for the long stalled Hate Crimes spinoff and they have him signed as the lead.
Murphy's return! Separate from DL because I like the way the wrote the character. They acknowledged the past without wallowing in it and he was a colleague who respected Benson without worshiping her. It would be nice if they could handle all the returns of old favorites like this.
Rollins???!!!. She was a competent detective and took responsibility for her past actions. It was nice to see and again I would love if they used this as a template for future scripts.
Fin. Nice mix of snark and serious and it kept Ice-T engaged throughout the episode. Unlike the domestic terrorists he never phoned it in.
The script. The story flowed smoothly, the dialogue was good and they did a good job with some of the things that are usually weak spots such as continuity and giving McGrath some believable motivations and at least one dimension. Plus there was a nice use of humor and all of the investigators played a role in solving the case.

The Bad:
Mariska. While Logue elevated what he was given she ruined decent writing through overacting. It was very jarring since everyone else did such a good job finding the right level (yes some of the wingnut bombers did a little scenery chewing, but they were supposed to be OTT wackjobs and not calm professionals.)

Overall I really liked it. Better than most of you it seems. Yes it was a bit predicable and we have seen it before, but there is really no way around it at this point - it's why they need to take a victory lap and go off into the sunset. It avoided the obvious traps and gave us the classic SVU experience that has been so often lacking in the past several years. If they could do a season at this level, bringing back some of the characters from the show's past with a few home runs and a couple clunkers I would be a very happy viewer. Unfortunately I expect them to go out with a whimper when they eventually reach a point where the budgets don't work and they can't have all the main cast on together except for sweeps. But hey at least this week was pretty good!

[Cloud9Shopper]

I wanted to enjoy this episode, and I don’t entirely hate this season, but I found myself bored most of the time and scrolling through my phone. I think I greatly prefer watching SVU in syndication/reruns as opposed to the newer seasons. 

I don’t mind the Rollins and Carisi relationship but I don’t think they’re going to make it long-term. It just seems like a relationship you enjoy while you’re in it but one day you’ll get bored and move on. Or they’ll just settle but won’t be particularly happy or unhappy. I don’t get vibes of them being madly in love. 

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Donal Logue! He still has screen presence to spare and the ability to pull off and elevate whatever he is given. I'm hoping this is a backdoor pilot for the long stalled Hate Crimes spinoff and they have him signed as the lead.
Murphy's return! Separate from DL because I like the way the wrote the character. They acknowledged the past without wallowing in it and he was a colleague who respected Benson without worshiping her. It would be nice if they could handle all the returns of old favorites like this.

This would have been a good opportunity to throw Murphy under the bus, where he does something disgraceful or out of character against Benson or especially Rollins, but I thought with the overdue Hate Crimes coming up, you can't throw him away like that.

Edited January 7, 2022 by dttruman

[Cloud9Shopper]

3 hours ago, dttruman said:

I thought it was a good honest assessment.  He mentioned some good points and some bad ones about the episode that I think we can all agree upon. He also gave some personal opinions that we are all entitled to give.

If you have watched many of the SVU episodes over the last 5-8 years you probably noticed that they have taken good story lines that could have been 2 or 3 parters and crunched them into a single episode. They may also leave out certain details that leave us scratching our heads and wondering how that course of action could have taken place or wondering that some blatant actions violate police protocol. We just point out some of the show's short comings.

 

Yeah I feel like this is inevitable once any show gets late in its run. I’ve seen it in shows that have run six or seven seasons and those that went 10+. After a while, it’s either not as exciting anymore, plots are recycled and predictable, or the makeup of the cast changes and there’s no longer the magic there once was among the characters. I know I loved when Warner and Huang were in the main cast of SVU, and I wish even Declan or Peter Gallagher’s character had stuck around. Or there are storylines that have potential but get brushed under the rug once they’re teased. 

[TV Diva Queen]

Didn't Benson spend Christmas eve at Stabler's house last month?  Is Declan and crew the new "Law" side of the mother ship reboot?  

[tennisgurl]

This franchise really wants the Hate Crime show to become a thing, so here we are with our most recent backdoor pilot. This show seems to exist at times just to springboard new shows off of, and while the new task force seems pretty interesting, I will probably pass. I just don't have enough time in my day for that many shows in this franchise. 

Silent night, hateful night is a silly title for an episode, even for a show that has seemingly been trying to constantly out due itself on silly names that describe serious problems in ridiculous ways. I do like that they focused on actual detective work and for an episode all about racism, they actually didn't go too nuts on the Olivia speeches, I guess because they were hate crime victims and not pretty young victims of sexual abuse. 

I really like Murphy so it was great to see him again, I like that he can be an old colleague of Olivia's that clearly respects her but doesn't worship the ground she walks on. The rest of the new squad seems decent, and I like that they used some past characters who should be on the squad, they at least have more personality then the Organized Crime unit, who even after two season struggle to find screen time. And they did actually use both squads instead of letting Hate Crimes take over, except for Carisi, who was very much missed.  

Edited January 8, 2022 by tennisgurl

[TV Diva Queen]

1 hour ago, TotalDrama said:

I've been watching SVU regularly since Season 9 after tuning into reruns and getting into the show, so that's a good thirteen years I've been tuning in and still ongoing. I've noticed the changes, but even I can like what I see sometimes and can applaud Warren Leight's direction for example while sometimes I find myself criticizing choices he makes that leaves me wondering if he truly cares about character whereabouts he seems to leave hanging at times. When the show was under Rick Eid or that Michael guy who ran Chicago Justice during Seasons 18-20, it was okay to me. Do not have as many complaints as that Xelious dude does. 

I have to look back at that. If so, this is a continuity error and it doesn't surprise me. And to your second question, no? Do you recall seeing any of these cast members and faces on the casting announcements of the L&O revival that's been going on for the past couple months? And they're part of the HATE CRIMES unit, not the 27th precinct. Something entirely different. Hopefully we do get an episode where we get to see that crew before the revival starts off next month. 

No, I don't.  If I had, I wouldn't ask the question.  Didn't even know about a HATE CRIMES show coming out.  Sorry to bother anyone.  

Edited January 7, 2022 by TV Diva Queen

[illdoc]

"L&O Hate Crimes" is NOT coming out. It got its "season order" revoked way back in late summer. That's why "The Blacklist" is the lead-off to "SVU"---that's the slot "L&O HC" was supposed to go. This seems like it would have been the back-door pilot, which would have aired last spring (since originally "HC" would have been in the fall).

[TotalDrama]

1 hour ago, TV Diva Queen said:

No, I don't.  If I had, I wouldn't ask the question.  Didn't even know about a HATE CRIMES show coming out.  Sorry to bother anyone.  

There is no HC show coming out, and I suppose you're not quite familiar with the original L&O because they only investigate homicide cases, nothing resorting to hate crimes. 

1 hour ago, illdoc said:

"L&O Hate Crimes" is NOT coming out. It got its "season order" revoked way back in late summer. That's why "The Blacklist" is the lead-off to "SVU"---that's the slot "L&O HC" was supposed to go. This seems like it would have been the back-door pilot, which would have aired last spring (since originally "HC" would have been in the fall).

Plans of this show happened as early as 2019 when it was initially the show Chris Meloni was to be a part of, but then that became Organized Crime. This one has been cancelled for a while. I was kind of hoping OC wouldn't happen given the tainted stigma L&O spinoffs have been under post-CI (TBJ, Conviction, LA, and True Crime all lasting a season), so I didn't want them to make another and have it be a waste. He was best off being incorporated back into SVU. But I'm glad OC has broken the curse and lasted more than a season. Let's see how long this one continues in the long haul. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by TotalDrama

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I have to look back at that. If so, this is a continuity error and it doesn't surprise me. And to your second question, no? Do you recall seeing any of these cast members and faces on the casting announcements of the L&O revival that's been going on for the past couple months? And they're part of the HATE CRIMES unit, not the 27th precinct. Something entirely different. Hopefully we do get an episode where we get to see that crew before the revival starts off next month. 

If the Hate Crimes unit doesn't work out, I wouldn't mind seeing them transfered over to the Law & Order Reboot

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

There is no HC show coming out, and I suppose you're not quite familiar with the original L&O because they only investigate homicide cases, nothing resorting to hate crimes. 

That hasn't stopped them from having SVU investigate so many other types of crimes that are not even related to sex crimes. If you ever saw "Zero Tolerance" You will know why. They had just busted up a hideout for undocumented child sex trafficking and rather than go after the other gang members, the producers and writers turn the rest of the episode into a bias unrealistic look at the immigration policies. Benson arrested or had a ICE agent arrested and then there is a trial, that never should have taken place.  So I am going to keep an open mind about Hate Crimes.

[SuzieQ]

Loved seeing Murphy back!!  He is a solid character and handled the personal scenes well.  Donal Logue is a top notch actor and I would watch just about anything he was in.  I HOPE HOPE HOPE they don't go down some love triangle rabbit hole with Murphy, Rollins and Carissi.  That would suck!  Rollins even managed to put on her big girl panties and act like an adult.  Hope to see more of Declan!

[CrystalBlue]

My beloved Donal Logue is back and just as good as ever!  Declan Murphy was great in this episode, and left time for others to shine too, like Fin.  Don Johnson aka Darko was so obviously a part of the hate crimes terrorist ring from the start.  Loved how Rollins played him to get inside his apt. and to save Danica to boot!  Amanda was pretty decent this outing, and her taking responsibility for the past choices she made with Murphy and having the baby was aces in my book.  I still secretly want them to get back together.  I watched the clip of Donal and Kelli walking in the "biggest mistake of my life" scene three times.  I hope Declan Murphy can be back on SVU or any other L&O.

I enjoyed the story throughout and this was a very good episode.

[wknt3]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:34 PM, dttruman said:

I thought they had a good premise again, but the writers really made the FBI and McGrath look so incompetent to make Benson and the others look so important. The plot and the pace was pretty good I am sure the FBI doesn't act that stupid. Dick Wolf 's FBI show on CBS acts so much more responsible and professional. I have not seen McGrath act so irresponsible and making such stupid decisions, By the way, did they actually identify if he was the one who gave the order to release the video of the kids? I don't think they answered that question.

I don' t think they did which is actually a good thing - most press leaks are like that where everyone assumes it was whomever they didn't like that did it and nobody ever finds out for sure. As far as the FBI not acting so stupidly unfortunately there is voluminous evidence in the public record that the FBI like all law enforcement agencies can be just that stupid in real life, although it is more of the standard trope of the feds coming in as big shots but not actually being as good as the the local cops. At least in shows featuring city cops - in shows where the feds are the stars it tends to be they are better and the local cops are yokels who resent them because they are either corrupt or just not too bright. This was one of those areas where in the old days they would have done the same thing, but pulled it off better. It would be relatively easy to have a line of dialogue where Murphy mentions having worked with one of the agents before on a JTTF case and remark on him being a great analyst, but a lousy interrogator and then someone respond that this it what happens when half the task force is home for the holidays. And you could also have the squad talking about how political and budget pressures are combining to have the brass ready to prematurely close the case with Murphy or Fin as the world wise cynics speculating that perhaps they don't want to really look at the ideological nature of the more serious incidents because it hits a little too close to home. Relatively minor tweaks in the script really would make it a lot easier to suspend disbelief and go with the flow.

Edited January 8, 2022 by wknt3
ducking autocorrect

[dttruman]

15 hours ago, wknt3 said:

the FBI like all law enforcement agencies can be just that stupid in real life, although it is more of the standard trope of the feds coming in as big shots but not actually being as good as the the local cops.

I thought it could have been written better. it looked like they didn't share any information with each other. The FBI guys didn't even know (or wasn't told) the name of the dog. The FBI were a little inept here, but I didn't get the feeling they acted like Big Shots.

The best example of the FBI being Big Shots and taking over is from an excerpt of this movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY_nkgJG3oE

 

[MarylandGirl]

I found the episode to be fairly engaging. I think Benson not being front and center really helped (though of course she had to be the one to take the shot). Rollins being competent and connecting with the dog guy was also good, as was having Murphy back.

So was this supposed to be happening in the same universe/time as the Organized Crime ep where she was invited to Stabler's house but didn't go? Is this meant to be what she was doing instead? Or are we just supposed to pretend they're different worlds and timelines despite all the crossovers?

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, MarylandGirl said:

So was this supposed to be happening in the same universe/time as the Organized Crime ep where she was invited to Stabler's house but didn't go? Is this meant to be what she was doing instead? Or are we just supposed to pretend they're different worlds and timelines despite all the crossovers?

That is a very good question! Do the producers and writers keep in touch with their counterparts from other shows?

[CrystalBlue]

I would say this was Christmas Eve and is why Benson was a no-show at the Stablers.

[dttruman]

41 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

I would say this was Christmas Eve and is why Benson was a no-show at the Stablers.

Does she have another crossover coming up on OC, where she will fill in the blanks concerning the story line?

[wknt3]

2 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I would say this was Christmas Eve and is why Benson was a no-show at the Stablers.

 

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

Does she have another crossover coming up on OC, where she will fill in the blanks concerning the story line?

I'm sure she does have a crossover coming up. Who knows if they'll bother to actually bother to have them talk about it, or if it will just be another misunderstanding keeping them apart even as fate and Dick Wolf keep throwing them together. All we can do is hope that we gain more by having less focus on Benson during SVU than we lose by having Benson take away time from more interesting stories and characters on the OC episode.

[Zoe]

I know the Hate Crimes spinoff was declared dead, but with the recognizable characters and random Jason Biggs here, I wonder if they're floating the idea again.

[TotalDrama]

34 minutes ago, Zoe said:

I know the Hate Crimes spinoff was declared dead, but with the recognizable characters and random Jason Biggs here, I wonder if they're floating the idea again.

They better not be. The revival of the original is coming and we'll already have three shows. No franchise works when there's four running at once. All the times L&O did this, the newest shows got cancelled and four spinoffs between CI and OC all got cancelled. It's best not to even try at another spinoff until one of the other shows end or at least have it air on a different network away from the others like TBJ did when CourtTV got the rights and CI on USA Network. That could probably work best. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by TotalDrama

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Zoe said:

I know the Hate Crimes spinoff was declared dead, but with the recognizable characters and random Jason Biggs here, I wonder if they're floating the idea again.

Hmm. Maybe a Law & Order: Hate Crimes spinoff could be some Peacock exclusive series or something. (Hey, @wknt3, didn't you float that very scenario once? Not that I think it's happening, but it would be one way to have a spinoff without a lot of pressure, so to speak, if TPTB ever wanted to think outside the box.)

[wknt3]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hmm. Maybe a Law & Order: Hate Crimes spinoff could be some Peacock exclusive series or something. (Hey, @wknt3, didn't you float that very scenario once? Not that I think it's happening, but it would be one way to have a spinoff without a lot of pressure, so to speak, if TPTB ever wanted to think outside the box.)

I did and I still think it makes sense in a lot of ways. You avoid a lot of the worries about offending the delicate sensibilities of those who spend most of their time telling us not to worry about offending anyone and it would give the service a flagship original drama. Plus it would fit what seems to be their strategy of taking creative talent that has an existing deal with NBC and letting them make better shows than what's on the broadcast network. It would also be a way of promoting Peacock as the streaming home of L&O so they might be able to pay enough to make the numbers work. But who knows?

[Zoe]

4 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I did and I still think it makes sense in a lot of ways. You avoid a lot of the worries about offending the delicate sensibilities of those who spend most of their time telling us not to worry about offending anyone and it would give the service a flagship original drama. Plus it would fit what seems to be their strategy of taking creative talent that has an existing deal with NBC and letting them make better shows than what's on the broadcast network. It would also be a way of promoting Peacock as the streaming home of L&O so they might be able to pay enough to make the numbers work. But who knows?

They could do it in a more limited capacity as well without the expectations of 20+ episodes a season.

[dttruman]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hmm. Maybe a Law & Order: Hate Crimes spinoff could be some Peacock exclusive series or something. (Hey, @wknt3, didn't you float that very scenario once? Not that I think it's happening, but it would be one way to have a spinoff without a lot of pressure, so to speak, if TPTB ever wanted to think outside the box.)

Good call on that! Never even thought about streaming exclusively. Would their budget change, and if so would it be cut extremely or would it get a big boost? Not familiar with the budgets of just streaming shows

Edited January 10, 2022 by dttruman

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, dttruman said:

Good call on that! Never even thought about streaming exclusively. Would their budget change, and if so would it be cut extremely or would it get a big boost? Not familiar with the budgets of just streaming shows

No idea about budgets either, but streaming can be a lot freer in terms of scenarios and language, etc.

To connect this back to SVU, I still think, at some point, Dick Wolf would do his best to put all L&O shows online eventually rather than have broadcast/NBC cancel them outright. He really hates to let anything go...

[Zaffy]

I wouldn't mind a L&O Hate Crimes, the cast is really interesting.

[wknt3]

On 1/10/2022 at 2:20 PM, dttruman said:

Good call on that! Never even thought about streaming exclusively. Would their budget change, and if so would it be cut extremely or would it get a big boost? Not familiar with the budgets of just streaming shows

It's complicated. Some have huge budgets and some have tiny budgets and the economics are pretty much a black box in a lot of cases with no publicly available viewership figures (even as the streamers have more info than any broadcaster ever had) and in some cases it's hard to even determine what the business model or motivation behind programming decisions are - like why NBC has many of it's contracted talent making better shows for it than airs on the main network that don't seem especially niche. I suspect given the promotional elements, the overall importance of the Dick Wolf relationship and the anticipated audience numbers NBC would pay roughly the same as the other series with the lead getting significantly less.
 

On 1/11/2022 at 12:56 AM, WendyCR72 said:

No idea about budgets either, but streaming can be a lot freer in terms of scenarios and language, etc.

To connect this back to SVU, I still think, at some point, Dick Wolf would do his best to put all L&O shows online eventually rather than have broadcast/NBC cancel them outright. He really hates to let anything go...

Connecting the overall economics back to SVU and this episode, one thing I really liked this week was that there were simply enough different characters to keep things interesting and change things up a bit during the investigation. That's unusual and the reason behind it is the same reason why SVU will not switch to Peacock when NBC finally gives up on it (which I suspect will be pretty soon if the mothership revival does similar numbers and NCIS ends) despite Dick Wolf talking a lot about the possibility. Dick Wolf will not use his own money to pay for shows upfront so the budget is limited to whatever NBC will pay per episode. It's typical for shows, especially long running series to be "deficit financed" with the studio puttting in additional money beyond what the network is paying. Wolf simply refuses, and always has (it was part of why the mothership ended) and that is why for the last 10 years or so they have been jettisoning cast members and recurring actors left and right and those that remain skip episodes once they get beyond their initial contracts especially as Mariska gets more and more money every year. Whereas just about anyone else would look at one of the most predictable future revenue streams in television and put up the money to slow the erosion of viewership and keep the new episodes desirable in syndication, Mr. Wolf is living up to his name and just cutting the budget every year and it's a big part of the overall decline in quality and why episodes with a full investigation and any sort of legal follow up are so rare - they simply don't have the money to pay everyone needed to do a classic style episode more than a  few times a season.

Edited January 13, 2022 by wknt3

[TVMovieBuff]

I haven't read all the posts, but i can fill in some blanks I did see. We have always known who Jessie's father is, that he is Murphy. Never a secret. Rollins father died last season or so, off screen, I think. The grandma & grandpa must be Rollins mother and a partner of hers perhaps. Rollins parents are long divorced. 

So on to the present! I love that Murphy is back! Rollins is her own worst enemy; when a guy is good she's bad. Carisi is too easy for her. She needs a guy who is challenging. Murphy is no pushover. We don't even know yet how serious he is about staying put in one place, let alone getting with Rollins on  long-term basis. 

I figured Rollins would cheat on Carisi sometime, and you just know she is going to be intrigued by Murphy. Carisi is going to be all butthurt but he won't do anything illegal about it. Murphy isn't going to file for custody of Jessie. He is more level-headed than that. 

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I haven't read all the posts, but i can fill in some blanks I did see. We have always known who Jessie's father is, that he is Murphy. Never a secret. Rollins father died last season or so, off screen, I think. The grandma & grandpa must be Rollins mother and a partner of hers perhaps. Rollins parents are long divorced. 

So on to the present! I love that Murphy is back! Rollins is her own worst enemy; when a guy is good she's bad. Carisi is too easy for her. She needs a guy who is challenging. Murphy is no pushover. We don't even know yet how serious he is about staying put in one place, let alone getting with Rollins on  long-term basis. 

I figured Rollins would cheat on Carisi sometime, and you just know she is going to be intrigued by Murphy. Carisi is going to be all butthurt but he won't do anything illegal about it. Murphy isn't going to file for custody of Jessie. He is more level-headed than that. 

Rollins father is still alive, he didn’t die, he’s in poor health but he’s still alive, and I think he’s staying with Rollins’ mother. 

[CrystalBlue]

Yeah, I don't remember Papa Rollins (he of the impromptu roadtrips) actually dying but he was pretty sick in the hospital.  I looked it up and am reminded he is Jim Rollins and stayin' alive.

[wknt3]

8 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Yeah, I don't remember Papa Rollins (he of the impromptu roadtrips) actually dying but he was pretty sick in the hospital.  I looked it up and am reminded he is Jim Rollins and stayin' alive.

Well, you can tell by the way he's a screwed up prick he's a Rollins man, no one to talk...

[wanderingstar]

I didn't care for this episode. Felt like it had no stakes. Darko was a pathetic excuse for a character. The new chief seems laughably ignorant. Murphy's return was wasted (and I'm not even a big Murphy fan)

And do not get me started on that ridiculous ending.

[Pearson80]

On 1/12/2022 at 6:41 AM, wknt3 said:

Connecting the overall economics back to SVU and this episode, one thing I really liked this week was that there were simply enough different characters to keep things interesting and change things up a bit during the investigation. That's unusual and the reason behind it is the same reason why SVU will not switch to Peacock when NBC finally gives up on it (which I suspect will be pretty soon if the mothership revival does similar numbers and NCIS ends) despite Dick Wolf talking a lot about the possibility. Dick Wolf will not use his own money to pay for shows upfront so the budget is limited to whatever NBC will pay per episode. It's typical for shows, especially long running series to be "deficit financed" with the studio puttting in additional money beyond what the network is paying. Wolf simply refuses, and always has (it was part of why the mothership ended) and that is why for the last 10 years or so they have been jettisoning cast members and recurring actors left and right and those that remain skip episodes once they get beyond their initial contracts especially as Mariska gets more and more money every year. Whereas just about anyone else would look at one of the most predictable future revenue streams in television and put up the money to slow the erosion of viewership and keep the new episodes desirable in syndication, Mr. Wolf is living up to his name and just cutting the budget every year and it's a big part of the overall decline in quality and why episodes with a full investigation and any sort of legal follow up are so rare - they simply don't have the money to pay everyone needed to do a classic style episode more than a  few times a season.

Why can't Mariska get a pay cut that will ensure that the show gets quality actors and writers to give the viewers excellent episodes?  I liked the chief from last season and even Kat. Bring back Barba who was not the Olivia worshipper and combine with the current cast, have Stabler come in from time to time when needed, limit Mariska's influence on storytelling ,then, I think the show would be dynamite in my opinion..

Edited January 18, 2022 by Pearson80