Hive Mind: Speculation

[BitterApple]

blixie, my mother was obsessed with Color Me Beautiful. I still remember those little books with the fabric swatches. Mom was a Winter, my sister and I were Autumns. Ah, the memories.

The dress Jeff picked looked like an Herve Leger bandage-style. I remember Kim K used to wear a ton of them when she first hit the scene. I didn't know they were still a "thing," but apparently so. I agree Jeff's intentions were genuine, but he missed the mark. A slinky body-con club dress really isn't something most middle-aged women would choose for a high school reunion. It screams "try-hard" which fits with Jeff peaking early and wanting to reclaim his glory days. 

I still think Tai could be in the mix as the journal stealer. Her sleepwalking is so stealth her own wife doesn't realize it's happening. She also knows Shauna more intimately than Jeff does, and could make an accurate guess on the passcode.

 

[Darian]

13 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Why a yellow dress that is obviously too small for a High School Class Reunion? Humiliation?

ETA: I realize it might be a call back to a yellowjacket, but the team uniforms were blue with touches of yellow.

I remember in episode one, at the party when Jackie pulls to the team aside and makes them all say nice things about each other, she's wearing a pale yellow jacket. I thought at the time that it was a "yellow jacket" and wondered if wearing yellow was a thing among the team. I think I noticed it a time or two, but I can't be sure, but yellow is one of the school colors, and Jeff seems like the guy who seems to be stuck on his high school glory days, telling her (jackass) that she "married into homecoming royalty." My eyes may never stop rolling. 

Which reminded me of that pic on the magazine Shauna had in her bag when the "reporter" showed up. It looked from the brief flash like high school Jackie's hair and I thought it could be from later in life and she could be alive, but it also could be a homecoming pic or something similar. But who knows?

I have no idea who Adam is and he could be lying about his age and when he was in school, etc. But even though I think they did a good job of casting the adult and teen versions I see a lot of posts criticizing how unalike they look. I'd chuckle if the same people who make them think Adam can't be Javi because they don't look enough alike, but it could be different people. Either way, Adam could be just some guy who sparked with Shauna immediately; it does happen. Or his intentions could be nefarious. Either way, I'm not much influenced by how much he does or doesn't look like teen Javi. 

And yes to those who say there would have been chaperones. Teachers, parents, something. I went to high school in the 1970s, when things were even looser and any trip we took, whether it was overnight, weekend, or just a day trip, there were chaperones, male and female. I remember being glad my mom wasn't the chaperoning type. 

[BitterApple]

Thinking about the last two episodes, and I'd love to hear opinions. Do you guys think we'll get any more major character deaths? If so, who and in which timeline? Past or present? 

 

 

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, BitterApple said:

blixie, my mother was obsessed with Color Me Beautiful. I still remember those little books with the fabric swatches. Mom was a Winter, my sister and I were Autumns. Ah, the memories.

My mom actually went to a week long out of state training for Color Me Beautiful. I’m a winter. 😂

[snarts]

There's a scene from the trailer of Jackie banging on a door like she's been locked somewhere (1:12 mark)

There's also one of Shauna pulling a knife on Adam (1:04 mark) and of adult Nat sighting a rifle/shotgun (0:59 mark). 

We haven't seen any of these scenarios yet.  How many episodes are left?  Also, if they're paying attention to continuity, after the girl falls into the pit, the one standing over looking down at her in animal garb is wearing red converse high tops. Anyone recognize the wearer?

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by snarts
included link

[peachmangosteen]

7 minutes ago, snarts said:

How many episodes are left? 

2.

Quote

Also, if they're paying attention to continuity, after the girl falls into the pit, the one standing over looking down at her in animal garb is wearing red converse high tops. Anyone recognize the wearer?

The girl standing over pit girl is also wearing Van's shirt, which is why many assumed Van would live. The thing is though, if any of the girls die, the other girls could just take their clothes so I don't think what that girl is wearing really points to who it is per se.

[Anela]

It looks like the four in the present, go to the reunion. They're all dressed up, and striding in like stars. I can't see Nat going, unless she had a reason to think she would find someone there.

[Cinnabon]

Has anyone ever seen the intros from AHS? Best not to look too closely or take them too seriously. I’m assuming the same here 🤷‍♀️

[BitterApple]

The writers have said they're going to show the girls wearing each others' clothing and shoes, and they used stunt doubles for the cannibal scenes (minus Misty), so we really have no idea who's in the clan until the big reveal. In the group shot, someone is even wearing Laura Lee's skirt. 

34 minutes ago, Anela said:

It looks like the four in the present, go to the reunion. They're all dressed up, and striding in like stars. I can't see Nat going, unless she had a reason to think she would find someone there.

I'm curious as to what motivates any of them to go to the reunion. Their senior year ended traumatically and they didn't even get to graduate with their class. I think you're right and it has something to do with Travis or the blackmail, or possibly another survivor who's yet to be revealed. 

[Cinnabon]

5 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The writers have said they're going to show the girls wearing each others' clothing and shoes, and they used stunt doubles for the cannibal scenes (minus Misty), so we really have no idea who's in the clan until the big reveal. In the group shot, someone is even wearing Laura Lee's skirt. 

I'm curious as to what motivates any of them to go to the reunion. Their senior year ended traumatically and they didn't even get to graduate with their class. I think you're right and it has something to do with Travis or the blackmail, or possibly another survivor who's yet to be revealed. 

Yes to all of this. 

[Nicmar]

15 hours ago, snarts said:

There's a scene from the trailer of Jackie banging on a door like she's been locked somewhere (1:12 mark)

There's also one of Shauna pulling a knife on Adam (1:04 mark) and of adult Nat sighting a rifle/shotgun (0:59 mark). 

We haven't seen any of these scenarios yet.  How many episodes are left?  Also, if they're paying attention to continuity, after the girl falls into the pit, the one standing over looking down at her in animal garb is wearing red converse high tops. Anyone recognize the wearer?

 

 

I thought the converse was pink?

[snarts]

33 minutes ago, Nicmar said:

I thought the converse was pink?

They looked red in the trailer, maybe they were wet.

I get that they'd all share clothes but maybe not so much the shoes since they're more size specific & it's likely they didn't pack that many.  If the converse were originally Van's (or left behind by Laura Lee) then someone else wearing them would make sense.  But if they are Nat's and she wears them every day, then seeing them on the person who was chasing the girl in the nightgown and standing over her body is a bit more telling. 

Also interesting is that the girl running & failing into the pit was wearing a white nightgown, just like the one Lottie wears in the candle scene (which I thought was likely a dream/vision sequence).  

Ok, and this one is way out there & gross but based on Melanie Lynskey's comments on Adam speculation could he be her son? He'd be 24-25.

[peachmangosteen]

2 minutes ago, snarts said:

Also interesting is that the girl running & failing into the pit was wearing a white nightgown, just like the one Lottie wears in the candle scene (which I thought was likely a dream/vision sequence).  

Laura Lee also wore a white nightgown though. 

3 minutes ago, snarts said:

Ok, and this one is way out there & gross but based on Melanie Lynskey's comments on Adam speculation could he be her son? He'd be 24-25.

I've seen this spec recently too and ewwwwwwwwwww. I really hope they don't go there. I'm out if they do. And I truly don't think they will.

[snarts]

15 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Laura Lee also wore a white nightgown though. 

She did but she's already dead.  The hair on the girl running is too dark & long to be Jackie, IMHO, it's either Lottie or Callie.

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, snarts said:

She did but she's already dead. 

That’s why I’m saying I don’t think the clothes are really gonna help determine anything lol.

Pit girl has long dark hair and then naked girl’s hair is shorter. Could be 2 different girls or it could just be that, as the writers said, they used stunt doubles in those scenes so they might not 100% match. Hell, the writers might not even be 100% sure of how they wanna go with it or they could change their mind from what they originally planned.

I doubt we even see that stuff in the second season tbh. There is a 5 season plan in place for fucks sake!

Hopefully Showtime will do right by them and let them know ahead of time if the show is gonna continue or not so the writers can adjust if needed.

[BitterApple]

The Adam theories I've seen thus far:

Adam is:

Javi 

Trans Jackie 

working with Jeff 

Shauna's son

Jackie's son 

a third Martinez brother

a journalist/author

one of Tai's minions 

a sibling of one of the crash victims 

a plant hired by Jackie's parents 

a typical stalker/obsessed fan 

I'm probably forgetting a few, but that's what I've got off the top of my head. I'm not sure how thoroughly Melanie reads Reddit, but her comment implies none of those theories are right and the correct answer is something obvious, but not obvious. At this point I don't give a shit if Adam is Biscuit in disguise, I just want the answer by the finale.

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by BitterApple

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I'm probably forgetting a few, but that's what I've got off the top of my head. I'm not sure how thoroughly Melanie reads Reddit, but her comment implies none of those theories are right and the correct answer is something obvious, but not obvious. At this point I don't give a shit if Adam is Biscuit in disguise, I just want the answer by the finale.

I feel the same. If the season ends and no questions have been answered, that would be a little frustrating.

 

I briefly did wonder if Adam was Shauna's first baby, but I do think the character is too old (on top of the fact that very few screenwriters would go there, although some certainly have). I mean, having a 36 year old play a 25 year old isn't  out of character for Hollywood, but that's just in general. When the character's background is supposed to a mystery, I think it's cheating to hire an actor who is significantly older to throw off your audience. Also, if it's a character who has undergone major plastic surgery so as to be non recognizable, that's like, soap opera territory.

 

I do wonder though if he is somehow connected to Shauna's first child. Maybe an adoptive brother? Or an ex boyfriend?

 

I also still think the strained goodbye between Coach Martinez and his wife could be a clue, but a third Martinez brother would be a little boring for a reveal, I think.

[Tatum]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Pit girl has long dark hair and then naked girl’s hair is shorter. Could be 2 different girls or it could just be that, as the writers said, they used stunt doubles in those scenes so they might not 100% match.

I just don't see how it could be the same girl. With the amount of spikes that went through Pit Girl's body, I think she would be shredded by the time they pulled the spikes out and dragged her out of the pit.

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, snarts said:

She did but she's already dead.  The hair on the girl running is too dark & long to be Jackie, IMHO, it's either Lottie or Callie.

 

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

That’s why I’m saying I don’t think the clothes are really gonna help determine anything lol.

Pit girl has long dark hair and then naked girl’s hair is shorter. Could be 2 different girls or it could just be that, as the writers said, they used stunt doubles in those scenes so they might not 100% match. Hell, the writers might not even be 100% sure of how they wanna go with it or they could change their mind from what they originally planned.

Exactly!

[Anela]

I don't know how her baby would survive, unless it was through breast milk. I assumed that she lost it, due to stress and lack of food. 

[Cinnabon]

35 minutes ago, Anela said:

I don't know how her baby would survive, unless it was through breast milk. I assumed that she lost it, due to stress and lack of food. 

Yeah, much like the possibility of Laura Lee surviving in that plane, I give this pregnancy a near zero chance of success. I’m assuming she’ll miscarry. Her due date would have theoretically been in the middle of winter based on the timing, right? 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

I don't know how her baby would survive, unless it was through breast milk. I assumed that she lost it, due to stress and lack of food. 

It's a long shot for sure, at least under her current circumstances, but I wouldn't rule anything out on this show...

 

If Shauna does miscarry, I think (and I am not an OB) the earlier she does it the better off she'd be medically speaking. I think there would be a lot of health complications with a later term miscarriage or stillbirth. But this isn't a medical show so they may not be worried about that.

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Yeah, much like the possibility of Laura Lee surviving in that plane, I give this pregnancy a near zero chance of success. I’m assuming she’ll miscarry. Her due date would have theoretically been in the middle of winter based on the timing, right? 

I think they left in May, based on the comment one character made about Nationals being the same weekend as prom, which was always mid/late May in my school. Definitely springtime, so yeah, I'd estimate a mid Feb due date, give or take a few weeks.

 

Honestly, as much as it would suck to be pregnant in the wilderness, I think I would be most scared of the delivery. At least Claire from Lost had a real doctor on her show (not that it actually helped her any).

[Cinnabon]

2 minutes ago, Tatum said:

It's a long shot for sure, at least under her current circumstances, but I wouldn't rule anything out on this show...

 

If Shauna does miscarry, I think (and I am not an OB) the earlier she does it the better off she'd be medically speaking. I think there would be a lot of health complications with a later term miscarriage or stillbirth. But this isn't a medical show so they may not be worried about that.

Yes, a later term miscarriage would be far more dangerous with the chance of infection. But so far Ben and Van have managed to evade serious infection, somehow, so as you said anything is possible.

1 minute ago, Tatum said:

I think they left in May, based on the comment one character made about Nationals being the same weekend as prom, which was always mid/late May in my school. Definitely springtime, so yeah, I'd estimate a mid Feb due date, give or take a few weeks.

 

Honestly, as much as it would suck to be pregnant in the wilderness, I think I would be most scared of the delivery. At least Claire from Lost had a real doctor on her show (not that it actually helped her any).

That’s about what I was thinking - definitely a winter due date (assuming a full term pregnancy, which is doubtful here). I don’t think that fetus is going to make it. 

[peachmangosteen]

This is what I figured all along. I never thought she meant she had literally never seen it, just that it wasn't prominent. And she hasn't even been reading reddit lately so!

I do think he's probably not Javi though since I feel like that's been a dominant theory for awhile now.

[peachmangosteen]

I mean, Melanie brought it up so I don’t see a problem with fans responding to it lol. 

To me, the fun of a show like this is trying to find clues and coming up with theories and even just reading other theories.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

This is what I figured all along. I never thought she meant she had literally never seen it, just that it wasn't prominent. And she hasn't even been reading reddit lately so!

I do think he's probably not Javi though since I feel like that's been a dominant theory for awhile now.

I agree. Adam/Javi has been plastered all over Reddit. There's no way Melanie hasn't seen it, even if she did a quick, one-time browse. It's either one of the more obscure theories or something that hasn't been mentioned altogether. 

[peachmangosteen]

I feel like there has to be more to this than them killing and eating each other. I mean, that’s already so obvious and yet there’s a 5 season plan. Like what the fuck they gonna do for 5 seasons lol?!

[BitterApple]

56 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I feel like there has to be more to this than them killing and eating each other. I mean, that’s already so obvious and yet there’s a 5 season plan. Like what the fuck they gonna do for 5 seasons lol?!

I agree. The cannibalism has long been rumored. Murder cannibalism takes it up a notch, but what if they didn't give their friends a quick, humane death? If the girls start diving deep into ritualism and cult-like behavior they may have tortured their victims or created a game out of the hunt. The animal calls they made to scare the wolves were the same ones pit girl heard before falling to her death. 

 

[Anela]

11 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. The cannibalism has long been rumored. Murder cannibalism takes it up a notch, but what if they didn't give their friends a quick, humane death? If the girls start diving deep into ritualism and cult-like behavior they may have tortured their victims or created a game out of the hunt. The animal calls they made to scare the wolves were the same ones pit girl heard before falling to her death. 

 

I was thinking the same thing.  Unless it’s another misdirect, Shauna didn’t seem too bothered in the preview.   That could just be that she’s done with Jackie, though.  

Edited January 9, 2022 by Anela

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. The cannibalism has long been rumored. Murder cannibalism takes it up a notch, but what if they didn't give their friends a quick, humane death? If the girls start diving deep into ritualism and cult-like behavior they may have tortured their victims or created a game out of the hunt. The animal calls they made to scare the wolves were the same ones pit girl heard before falling to her death. 

Yea, that seems likely.

I just don't really see how the writers can have a 5 season plan for this. That seems like way too much time. I don't want this to turn into another Lost! I actually loved Lost all the way through and it's one of my all-time fave shows, but it went on far too long and it really suffered for it.

[BitterApple]

For those interested, here is the link for the screen grabs of Shauna's flashback:

https://imgur.com/a/GycCpzU

The clip that intrigues me most is the night time fire. The plane crashed during the day, so is it possible the cabin burns down? Also, what was Shauna unearthing in the snow? It looked like something large and square. The damaged black box? 

[Fuzzy Logic]

I am expecting an adult Van reveal next week at the reunion.  Her scars were too distinctive…too easy to imagine an older red-headed actress with the same facial scars in a dun-dun-DUN moment.

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Also, what was Shauna unearthing in the snow? It looked like something large and square. The damaged black box? 

Oh, maybe! I kind of assume the girls never found out about Misty destroying that though since I doubt they'd have anything to do with her if they did. But they could find out about it without realizing it was Misty. Maybe Misty will blame someone else and they'll believe her.

Speaking of Misty, did we ever see her actually have the postcard? We did, right? Because Jeff only mentioned sending them to Tai and Nat. I don't know if that was just a writer error or if we should wonder about it.

1 hour ago, Fuzzy Logic said:

I am expecting an adult Van reveal next week at the reunion.  Her scars were too distinctive…too easy to imagine an older red-headed actress with the same facial scars in a dun-dun-DUN moment.

I will be shocked if we don't get the reveal of another survivor in the finale. Van seems like a safe bet. Lottie and Jackie are really the only other options since the other girls are so inconsequential it wouldn't really have much impact to reveal they're alive.

[braziliangirl]

I think Jackie survives, returns home (i don't think her diary was a production error) and then disappears. Jackie's mom compared Shauna and Jackie to Lenu and Lila from Elena Ferrante, right? 

[blixie]

Quote

I just don't really see how the writers can have a 5 season plan for this.

I suspect the split timeline will fade away and they will increasingly focus on the fall out or re-engagement of battle lines in the present. Like it's still unclear to me  how long they've been in the woods, it still seems warm enough and yet they are flipping their shit about dying soon. If they left in May and it's like July/August we got a lot of months left to sort through. 

 

Quote

the girls never found out about Misty destroying that though since I doubt they'd have anything to do with her if they did

But they haven't had anything to do with her. And the first time Nat saw her she planned to blow her head off. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by blixie

[BitterApple]

I'm thinking it's late September or early October. Shauna looks like she's sporting a five month bump, which jives with a May crash date and typical timeframe for high school homecomings. As far as the weather, I guess we can handwave it as Indian Summer. 

[peachmangosteen]

I assumed it was like early November. That’s usually when homecoming was when I was in high school. Also, the leaves on the trees were brown/fall-like. Plus, it’s that time in the present timeline so I think they’re kinda mirroring the timelines.

1 hour ago, blixie said:

I suspect the split timeline will fade away and they will increasingly focus on the fall out or re-engagement of battle lines in the present

Damn, I hope not. I think I’d lose interest real quick lol. 

[peachmangosteen]

Apparently they've confirmed that Adam really was who he said he was and that Lottie is the Antler Queen. I'm surprised they'd just give that away like that. Seems odd lol.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Apparently they've confirmed that Adam really was who he said he was and that Lottie is the Antler Queen. I'm surprised they'd just give that away like that. Seems odd lol.

Wow, damn. I mean, I'm fine with Adam being Adam, but I thought the ladies would discover he wasn't entirely on the up and up. Either he was cozying up to Shauna because he was writing a book or planned to sell secrets to a tabloid, etc. So Adam was just a Millennial artist who had zero internet presence. Um, okay. 

 

 

[Tatum]

On 1/9/2022 at 2:30 PM, BitterApple said:

I agree. The cannibalism has long been rumored. Murder cannibalism takes it up a notch, but what if they didn't give their friends a quick, humane death? If the girls start diving deep into ritualism and cult-like behavior they may have tortured their victims or created a game out of the hunt. The animal calls they made to scare the wolves were the same ones pit girl heard before falling to her death. 

 

I would be surprised if it was murder cannibalism, if only because Jeff didn't seem too disturbed by whatever he read in Shauna's journals. Also, I thought Shauna's vision of Teen Jackie in Jackie's bedroom indicated that Shauna felt like Jackie would have forgiven her. But I guess that could be wrong on both accounts.

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

So Adam was just a Millennial artist who had zero internet presence. Um, okay. 

Agreed. I suppose I prefer it to some completely outlandish and contrived situation (ie a presumed dead character with plastic surgery that no one recognizes), but still, kind of a let down.

 

[Cinnabon]

33 minutes ago, Anela said:

The article you posted. I'm reading it right now, and if Lottie is the Antler Queen, who is the girl in the pit? I thought that was supposed to be Lottie. 

I don’t know, they haven’t said AFAIK. Lottie could be both AQ and the girl in the pit. 

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

The article you posted. I'm reading it right now, and if Lottie is the Antler Queen, who is the girl in the pit? I thought that was supposed to be Lottie. 

They're already out here telling us what the answers to their mysteries are, they might as well tell us who pit girl is at this point.

[Cinnabon]

33 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

They're already out here telling us what the answers to their mysteries are, they might as well tell us who pit girl is at this point.

I’m not sure the actors know that yet? In the interviews I’ve read, most have said that they don’t even know the answers to these mysteries either until they get their scripts. 

[peachmangosteen]

Then I guess we'll see Lottie as Antler Queen in the finale, if the Lottie actress knows for a fact she is AQ.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Then I guess we'll see Lottie as Antler Queen in the finale, if the Lottie actress knows for a fact she is AQ.

Do you think they’ll even get that far in season 1?

[peachmangosteen]

I didn't, but if the Lottie actress knows she's Antler Queen then that reveal must be in the finale if they only know the answers when they get the scripts. 

There's really only 1 thing unsolved now, and since they're going very straightforward and simple with everything, I'm gonna guess Travis just killed himself.

 

[blixie]

I can't believe after bringing up Color Me Beautiful, Misty said she always thought she was a Winter, but she's a Spring! Best part of the episode, how prescient are we?

As far as Lottie goes, they basically revealed it this episode, all she was missing was a veil  and I think only Tai approaches her height, but not really? I think that degree of misleading would be offsides.

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, blixie said:

I can't believe after bringing up Color Me Beautiful, Misty said she always thought she was a Winter, but she's a Spring! Best part of the episode, how prescient are

I know!!!! Also, Jackie referred to the dead guy as "Dead Cabin Guy" which is what people on the forums have called him since that episode aired! 

[NoReally]

I hope someone can help me with this, because my memory isn't very good, as you'll see.  I know we all assume the crash survivors resorted to cannibalism -- and it does make sense in light of the tone of the series -- but have any of them ever said so, explicitly? 

The closest I can recall is someone (can't remember who) saying to Shauna (I think) something like, "You ate people." But as I recall, Shauna (or whomever) never actually responded.

And I believe there was a dark, shadowy shot of them carving up and eating meat from a large animal(?). It seems logical to conclude that was people-meat, but are we sure?

Did I miss something that demonstrates this conclusively?