Little House Series and Pioneer Girl Readalong

[smittykins]

Little Town is where the abundance of food comes back, and the family finally seems to be on its feet again and able to not pinch every penny.   This book and the next seem to be the best times for the Ingalls since the Big Woods and the last of the good times really.

 

Even then, it takes a while; until the chicks grow up, lay eggs, and those chicks grow big enough to eat, the only meat they have is salt pork.

 

Little Town features my personal rage moment:  Miss Wilder's treatment of Carrie, and the Ingalls parents rather blase attitude.  "Miss Wilder may have been wrong, but she is the teacher.  I cannot have my girls making trouble in school."  If *any* teacher had bullied a sickly child of mine, you can bet I'd be organizing a posse with torches and pitchforks.

[camom]

 

Even then, it takes a while; until the chicks grow up, lay eggs, and those chicks grow big enough to eat, the only meat they have is salt pork.

 

Well, there were the blackbirds.

 

I don't understand the store in town.  Pa built the store, but they lived in it during the winters.  Didn't he rent it out?  Or maybe that's where he kept his second family during the other seasons of the year. LOL

[CherryAmes]

Little Town features my personal rage moment:  Miss Wilder's treatment of Carrie, and the Ingalls parents rather blase attitude.  "Miss Wilder may have been wrong, but she is the teacher.  I cannot have my girls making trouble in school."  If *any* teacher had bullied a sickly child of mine, you can bet I'd be organizing a posse with torches and pitchforks.

 

Absolutely agree with you but even as recently as the 40s when my dad was in school if the teacher gave you the strap and your parents found out about it you'd have gotten punished, as in a whipping,  from them too!  And people talk about the good old days.

[Stargazer3]

Ah, Little Town on the Prairie. This book is one of my favorites of the series. As I grew older and learned more about Laura's life I questioned her interpretation of Pa, and I wondered if he was really that spectacular. Pa tells them how to set up the literary society. Pa spells down the whole town. Pa beats everyone at charades. Pa entertains everyone with his music. Pa is in the minstrel show. I've often wondered if she made Pa so spectacular because the real picture of him wasn't so rosy.

I admit to being surprised when I discovered the ten year age difference between Laura and Almanzo. In today's world a 25 year old man is dating a 15 year old girl would be cause for alarm. Perhaps in those days it wasn't as surprising, and of course they didn't get married until Laura was 18.

I also found Nellie's horror that Laura didn't want to attend the revival amusing. Nellie was such a nasty creature, yet acted all religious. She didn't seem to practice what she preached however. I've known a lot of people like that. They go to church on Sunday but the rest of the week they are nasty gossiping things.

[BatmanBeatles]

This book also brought us: "Lazy. Lousy. Liza Jane."

[Queena]

I love the seat rocking passage. That was something I would totally do. I also wonder how Eliza Jane felt about Laura's depiction of her. I also wonder if there are any living Wilder relatives.

[sgittinger]

I'd say the only living Wilder relatives would be descendents of Almanzo's siblings; Alice, Royal and EJ all had children of their own.

 

"Not for nothing had Pa always said she was as strong as a little French horse". I love that.

[jammaker]

 

I love the seat rocking passage. That was something I would totally do. I also wonder how Eliza Jane felt about Laura's depiction of her. I also wonder if there are any living Wilder relatives.

 

I loved this part too - I would completely do that too!    I wonder if Almanzo knew how poorly his sister was treating Laura, and also what sort of conversations happened there over the years.  If my husband's relatives ever treated me/mine the way she did, I would probably never fully let it drop, as in every time her name came up I'd probably mutter something obscene, and if she came to visit I'm not sure I would be able to be polite.  But Laura was much more a lady than I'll ever claim to be.

[moonb]

I'm a school nerd, so besides the socializing and Laura's teenage fretting over her clothes and figure, I most enjoy the peek into 19th century schooling in LTOTP - it's really detailed. Doing long division in their heads in front of an audience at the school exhibition? Diagramming sentences? Memorizing all that American history -  "great men" and US president-style. And of course, as Miss Wilder demonstrates, the main thing really is discipline; being able to learn something means memorizing and spitting it out, period. 

 

ETA: yes, I also really wonder why Laura didn't bother fictionalizing Eliza Jane just a little bit, the way she did with other people throughout the series.

Edited September 23, 2014 by moonb

[Queena]

Poor lazy lousy Eliza Jane. I really admire the independent nature of Eliza Jane. She really was a woman before her time.

[CherryAmes]

I also wonder how Eliza Jane felt about Laura's depiction of her.

 

She died before any of the books were written.

[stopeslite]

I still don't remember reading anywhere about Pa stealing Eliza Jane's town plot from under her - was that before the events of Little Town? If so, I can easily see her hating Laura and Carrie. I always wondered how they got along later; there must have been at least a few family gatherings where they had to act nicely to each other. 

 

 

I also think it was interesting how she only had one child in a time period where it was common to have many, or at least more than one. I have always wondered if there was a reason (health related-Almonzo's stroke? Dipthertia?) or maybe they just thought they couldn't afford it.

 

They also had separate bedrooms by the time they had their house built up in Mansfield. A lot of couples do, but I kind of wondered if the stroke took away some of Manly's oomf, and if they just didn't really have a physical relationship after that.

[Stargazer3]

Excuse me for jumping off topic a bit here - I didn't notice anything about these particular Little House books in the forum...anyway I was searching for something to do with The Long Winter and this book cover came up:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Winter-Little-House/dp/0060885424/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411519819&sr=8-1&keywords=9780060885427

 

 

Where did that cover come from? This is supposed to be the Ingalls family during the Long Winter? Starving, freezing...Grace has on a sleeveless dress!  She's barefoot!  None of them look a bit hungry!  And I'm sorry but Pa looks very strange...I've seen some alternative covers to the Little House books. Some people say they are bootleg copies and people shouldn't buy them. There's one of Those Happy Golden years that shows Laura and Almanzo in a buggy and Almanzo looks like he's all of 16.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Wow. That cover was truly awful and apropos of nothing. Garth Williams' cover at least managed to convey, you know, WINTER.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[Pickles Aplenty]

What the hell?  That looks like Little Hippie Commune on the Prairie.

[henrysmom]

I've seen some alternative covers to the Little House books. Some people say they are bootleg copies and people shouldn't buy them.

 

 

I don't think those are bootlegs.  I remember when those editions came out.  Some great brain deciding that the LIW books didn't have appeal to modern kids, so they revamped the covers to make them more "appealing".  It didn't work, and the old editions came back soon enough.  I'll look around and see if I can find a news story about it--I remember reading a few at the time and thinking the whole idea pretty absurd. Seeing the new covers did not change my mind.  They were pretty abysmal.

Edited September 24, 2014 by henrysmom

[henrysmom]

Here is a link to the news story.  I love the bit about the informal poll done at a conference.  I can only imagine it was around a bar late at night because I have no clue who (when sober) would think this would be a good idea:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/print/20061204/3266-little-house-under-renovation.html

Edited September 24, 2014 by henrysmom

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I don't think those are bootlegs.  I remember when those editions came out.  Some great brain deciding that the LIW books didn't have appeal to modern kids, so they revamped the covers to make them more "appealing".  It didn't work, and the old editions came back soon enough.  I'll look around and see if I can find a news story about it--I remember reading a few at the time and thinking the whole idea pretty absurd. Seeing the new covers did not change my mind.  They were pretty abysmal.

They periodically do the same thing to the Encyclopedia Brown covers, changing the look of the main character to whatever the publisher thinks kids of the day will find "cool." Some have been decent, others made Brown look like an annoying little snot.

[Stargazer3]

Thanks for the link. I read the article. Some things should never be changed. I have the 9 book boxed set. I bought it online and haven't really looked at the Little House books in a store. The covers are appalling. Seeing Grace barefoot and wearing a sleeveless dress during the hard winter is so odd. If they wanted to change the covers you think they might have taken ones that looked truer to the story and at least showed the girls in warmer clothes and not quite as happy looking. Of course a more realistic cover might scare off some of today's young readers who are heavily protected from anything harsh so they aren't offended or disturbed.

[henrysmom]

Has anybody seen the first editions of the books with the original illustrator Helen Sewell?  This is a Google Images link to some of the pictures (some of the Garth WIlliams ones are in there too, but the Sewell ones are in the first row.

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=laura+ingalls+wilder+Helen+Sewell&biw=1280&bih=899&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bdciVL7AGc6PyASsoYDQBA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

 

I think these are nice enough, but the Garth Williams' illustrations are perfect, in my opinion.

[juneday]

They also had separate bedrooms by the time they had their house built up in Mansfield. A lot of couples do, but I kind of wondered if the stroke took away some of Manly's oomf, and if they just didn't really have a physical relationship after that.

That's kind of sad; but interesting. I wonder if that was common for couples to do as time went on (maybe if a husband/wife had a snoring problem or something? Lol) or if they just didn't have much of a physical relationship after the sickness as stroke.

I hate those new book covers! The children are too modern-looking, and it just looks too...present-day to me. At one point I went shopping for a LH book and basically all they had on the market were those re-marketed covers. I told myself I'd save my original Garth Williams illustrated set for if I ever have children, even if they are creased and have dog-eared pages.

[BatmanBeatles]

What I like about LTOTP is that it shows us that back then things that mattered to teens are similar to today.

[Libby96]

What I like about LTOTP is that it shows us that back then things that mattered to teens are similar to today.

So true! In fact, most good literature reveals something about the human condition, even if the time period and the characters' circumstances are very different than our own.

That alternate cover is just weird. And stupid. I remember seeing a cover for "Anne of Green Gables" a few years ago, and the the girl on the cover had her NOT RED hair all loose around her shoulders, and was wearing a tight plaid shirt and a come hither expression. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not.

[camom]

I'm struck by the difference between the winter in LTOTP and the one the year before.  What a difference a year makes!  I like Laura's descriptions of the town happenings -- the literary society, the dinner party, etc.  

[dargosmydaddy]

 

Where did that cover come from?

And where's Ma on that cover? 

[BatmanBeatles]

This book was where we are introduced to "Wooden swearing".

[Brn2bwild]

What the hell?  That looks like Little Hippie Commune on the Prairie.

 

"OMG, guys, winter is just so AWESOME!"

[nodorothyparker]

I also really wonder why Laura didn't bother fictionalizing Eliza Jane just a little bit, the way she did with other people throughout the series.

 

I've always wondered what that relationship must have been like in the years after Laura married her baby brother.  Laura apparently thought enough of her to let Rose live with her for awhile in Louisiana so she could finish high school because Mansfield didn't have one.  Yet when it came time to write about her, look how she portrayed her.  Wouldn't you love to know what Almanzo thought about that?

 

As a kid I thought the whole seat rocking incident was bad ass and was happy when Pa came to the rescue with the other school board members.  As an adult, I can't help but cringe a bit when I read it.

 

This is the book where Charles Ingalls is the best speller, best charade player, best in the minstrel show.  He's just the best all-around guy in town.  But he's also failing to make a crop yet again, feeding the kids crow pie, and generally poor mouthing about having to sell stock and putting Laura to working sewing shirts to send Mary to college.  And of course at the end, they all think it's just fine and dandy to let Laura break the law and ship her off to teach school elsewhere before she's even 16.

Edited September 27, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[CherryAmes]

Yet when it came time to write about her, look how she portrayed her.  Wouldn't you love to know what Almanzo thought about that?

 

Do we have any reason to believe that Almanzo would have disagreed with Laura's portrayal?  As early as Farmer Boy Eliza Jane is not a particularly sympathetic character, with only one exception that I can recall.  I get the feeling Eliza Jane and Rose were cut from the same cloth and unless Almanzo was besotted with affection for both of them I doubt he was blind to their faults.

[smittykins]

As a kid I thought the whole seat rocking incident was bad ass and was happy when Pa came to the rescue with the other school board members.

 

After the school board's visit, though, Pa asks Laura "What did you say to Nellie to give her the idea that you could run the school because I'm on the board?" and Ma chastises her for being unforgiving, because Laura had meant to make Nellie mad because of what happened in Plum Creek.  YMMV, but I got a "If you'd kept your mouth shut, this wouldn't have happened" vibe.

[Mybrainhurts]

Before we finish with Little Town on the Prairie this week, I wanted to mention my favorite character in the book--Kitty!!!!  I loved that Kitty killed her first mouse before she could barely get around and that she was the most excited (after Pa, of course) about the blackbird pie.  Kitty was one of the few things that Pa brought into the house that was a straight up awesome purchase without causing any later problems (except maybe cleaning up dead gophers).

 

This is the book where Charles Ingalls is the best speller, best charade player, best in the minstrel show.  He's just the best all-around guy in town.  But he's also failing to make a crop yet again, feeding the kids crow pie, and generally poor mouthing about having to sell stock and putting Laura to working sewing shirts to send Mary to college.

 

I can't believe I'm going to do this but I'm going to defend Pa a little here.  In re-reading Laura Ingalls: A Writer's Life, even Laura didn't describe him as a good farmer (she said he was a musician and a poet and a great hunter and trapper) so I think maybe she realized that he did come across as somewhat of a failure as far as his "career" as a farmer went.  Maybe that's why she went overboard saying he was the most awesome Pa that ever awesomed--she certainly couldn't say that he was the best provider and she didn't do so.  Oh and blackbird pie??  Eww.  Just no.  Although I guess we should be grateful that gopher pie or roast gopher or anything like that didn't come up in this book.

[smittykins]

Before we finish with Little Town on the Prairie this week, I wanted to mention my favorite character in the book--Kitty!!!!  I loved that Kitty killed her first mouse before she could barely get around and that she was the most excited (after Pa, of course) about the blackbird pie.  Kitty was one of the few things that Pa brought into the house that was a straight up awesome purchase without causing any later problems (except maybe cleaning up dead gophers).

 

I loved the story of how she would latch onto a dog's back and ride it down the street!  One thing I've always wondered:  Could being a one-family cat(no one else could touch her or she'd attack)be related to being taken away from her mother too soon?

[ElderPrice]

Kitty is a badass and the best character in the book. I liked when she left dead gophers by the door and Ma said " I've never been so embarrassed by a cats generosity!". Ma expressed a sense of humor, y'all! And killing a mouse at about three weeks old is pretty awesome. Kitty was taken from her mother way too young and I'm surprised she survived, she was unsocialized and never learned how to behave with other people or animals, hence her aggression with strangers. I always wondered why Pa couldn't pay for her, then leave her with the mother until she was old enough to leave home.

And the Mary STFU moment: Laura:" sheep sorrel tastes like springtime." Mary:" it really tastes like lemon flavoring." Ugh. Big mental smack from me.

[PrincessLuceval]

Because Mary had no imagination. It's a good thing that she's the one who went blind, and not Laura. Could you imagine Mary being Laura's eyes? "The sunset is brown and orange and pink. There are clouds." 

[BatmanBeatles]

It's a good thing she never wrote a book.

[SunDevil28]

What I like about LTOTP is that it shows us that back then things that mattered to teens are similar to today.

I think that's what I always liked about this book too.  It showed Laura actually having peers and friends and boys and classes and an education.  Not just suffering and going without and depending on the mission barrels from Reverend Alden.  She was really able to have some good fun in this one!

And of all the unnecessary purchases in all the books, I really have a soft spot for Laura getting her calling cards.  I know Ida didn't have any either, so Laura wouldn't have been left out, but still it was nice to see her having things the town girls had.

 

Finding the Christmas present - I accidentally found my "big" Christmas present one year when I was about 12.  I managed to keep it a secret and not ruin the surprise for my parents, but I was as upset as Laura was, so that section really hit home for me!

[BatmanBeatles]

One thing that surprised me is that wearing your hair up over your ears was considered daring. Ma told that story about when she and her sister wore their hair like that and their teacher humiliated them in front of the whole class. Just for showing her ears.

[juneday]

I really liked the part about Laura getting we calling-cards as well. I thought it showed that she was growing up and wanted to "fit in"-a normal teenage thing to go through. Even though that wasn't drastic at all, I understood and was glad she got them. It showed that not everything was all work and scrimping pennies for Laura. ;)

[BatmanBeatles]

I'm glad Ma loosened up and let Laura cut her bangs as well.

 

I always laughed at Eliza Jane's speech at the start of the school year.

[Snow Apple]

I like the part about the name cards too, but it also made me sad. Laura worked in jobs she hated (making buttonholes) and gives her entire paycheck to her family, but doesn't think she can spend 25 cents on herself. However, it was cute that she and Almanzo exchanged cards and Nellie saw them ride up to the school together. Loved the part where Laura's friends were so happy for her and couldn't wait to tell her about Nellie's reaction. It's funny to see how some things never change and teenage girls is one of them. 

[camom]

I know I'm a weather wimp, but the descriptions of the cold weather are painful.  In the school, Laura decides it's warm enough for the students to sit at their desks (instead of being near the stove) because she could barely see her breath.  And when the teenagers were all out sledding, it was pleasant because it was ONLY 20 below zero.  Blankets freezing stiff, animals not able to breathe because their breath freezes over their nostrils.  No thanks.

[juneday]

Yes, those descriptions of winter in the LH books always shocked me, I guess. Not at how cold it was, but thy they carried on and worked and had fun times even when it was freezing! I'm sure they were somewhat used to it, though.

[Snow Apple]

I can't believe it's the last week already. 

 

I always loved the description of Laura's engagement ring. I've even looked up garnet and pearl rings on various websites. Does anyone know why it went on the first finger? That's the index finger, right? Ida wore her's there too.

 

Ohhhhh. I just found this:

http://beyondlittlehouse.com/2011/09/19/own-an-engagement-ring-like-lauras/

Edited October 1, 2014 by Snow Apple

[stopeslite]

I love the description of the pantry in their new house, with all of the perfectly built drawers and the window Laura could look out of while she was kneading bread, which he did specifically because he knew she hated it. That's just such a beautiful encapsulation of love - they seemed to be quite taciturn in speech (or at least she was in what she would write), but for him to take that much care and concern about her was so lovely.

[BatmanBeatles]

I always laugh at Nellie Olsen's "Utterly Too Too!". I've never heard anyone say that before and I don't know what it means.

[juneday]

I love the description of the pantry in their new house, with all of the perfectly built drawers and the window Laura could look out of while she was kneading bread, which he did specifically because he knew she hated it. That's just such a beautiful encapsulation of love - they seemed to be quite taciturn in speech (or at least she was in what she would write), but for him to take that much care and concern about her was so lovely.

I agree, that was sweet and a real show of love without saying anything.

(Skipping around to THGY I know, but this reminded me of something) Did anyone think that Laura and Almonzo's conversation on one of thir buggy rides right before they got engaged was a bit odd or out of the ordinary? Almonzo says something like, "Would you say yes if someone proposed to you?" And Laura said "It would depend on who asked me." Almonzo responded, "What if I asked you?" She said, "It would depend upon the ring."

I've never been quite able to figure that conversation out. Was Laura trying to be humorous?

[ElderPrice]

There are different versions of how the proposal went down. In THGY, Manly says "would yup accept a ring?" She says "it depends on who offered it." He says "what if I offered it?" She says "then it would depend on the ring." But in Pioneer Girl, when Manly says "would you accept a ring?" She says "yes!" Immediately, then they kiss, not waiting for the ring to be officially on her finger. The Pioneer Girl version sounds more natural.

And back to LTOTP, not only is Pa the bestest at everything, but saves the day yet again in the Fourth of July section, where the Declaration of Independence is included (in its entirety!). After the Declaration is read aloud there is an awkward silence and only Pa knows what to do- sing! Which naturally gets everyone else singing too and is the perfect thing to do. Thank God Pa was there! I skip over that section with all of the God is America's King crap so somehow I missed it until now.

[jammaker]

What I like about the proposal is that he asks Laura before he talks to Pa.   He only talked to Pa the day before officially giving her the ring.   Even today there are men who will go to the parents/father first to "ask permission", so I liked that he gave Laura the respect of getting her answer first.

 

There's not much dialog saying what they ever talked about - I wonder if she was keeping their private lives private (as much as you can writing about your youth), or what drove that choice.   

[Snow Apple]

Another thing I was pleasantly surprised about was Laura not wanting to use the word "obey" in her wedding vows. I didn't know there was a choice back then; I thought you just follow the script. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised since I'm sure vows were taken very seriously back then and you don't say what you don't mean.

 

I wonder if that story is true though. I always thought that was an add conversation to write in the book.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Snow Apple

[smittykins]

Going back to "The Long Winter" for a second:

This.  The muskrat conversation and the line about the Ingalls girls being above working in the fields like foreigners made me hate the book and put it down in frustration.

 

Gee, what did Ma think of the Wilder women who did indeed work in the fields?

 

I wonder if Ma actually said this, or it was Rose speaking through Ma.(My guess is the latter.)  And I've always found it interesting that in an era where the husband was the head of the household and his word was law, it's ultimately Ma who gives Laura permission to take her first sewing job in LTOTP.