Little House Series and Pioneer Girl Readalong

[kikismom]

That's what happens when an author says everything in the book is true to life when it actually isn't.  Carrie actually wasn't born until after the Ingalls arrived in Kansas (which makes Pa's leaving Wisconsin worse somehow because Ma was probably pregnant when they left).  That's why Pa really took Laura and Mary to the Indian camp--Ma was giving birth to Carrie and didn't want the girls around during that time.  Laura used creative license in saying that she remembered a lot of what happened in LHOTP--she really was only three at the time so unless she had one of the most amazing brains of all time, she probably only heard stories of what Kansas was like.

When you learn that Ma was pregnant in Kansas, it makes a different interpretation of why Ma's eyes shone when Charles brought back the little jar of pickles when he remembered how Ma had longed for pickles.

 

Pa says at least twice in the book that they'll live like kings; once when he shows where they will build their house, and when he comes back from hunting. He also says that it's a place he'll be contented to live in the rest of his life, and no matter how thick and close the neighbors get it would never feel crowded.

Ma should have made him write that down. She could bring it out every time he talked about too many people settling nearby.

[juneday]

Hahaha @ the pickles comment!

Yes, but he made similar remarks about each place they moved to, except maybe Wisconsin. He was always talking about how he loved the place they had moved to and how they would live like kings & not have to move.

And then they always did, except for De Smet. Lol.

[kikismom]

Oregon! That's the place to be!

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

A quick note about Mr. Edwards: most Ingalls historians believe "Mr. Edwards," like Nellie Oleson, was a composite character. In Edwards' case, he was a composite of several unnamed people who befriended the Ingalls family or were otherwise kind to them throughout Laura's childhood and adolescence.

[jammaker]

Ma being pregnant also makes the log falling on her while building the house seem even scarier.  The potential for disaster was huge.

 

It bothers me, too, that when the family is in peril, Baby Carrie is left out of the narrative - the river crossing, but also when they had malaria.  The 4 of them are near death, and Baby Carrie isn't even mentioned.   If in real life, Ma was pregnant with malaria it could have caused serious issues for her and Carrie.  If Carrie was an infant and Ma had malaria, who was feeding her?  Infants can't go long without eating.  (And, would the crying not have driven them all out of their fevered minds?)   If Baby Carrie was a toddler as the book generally depicts - either she's healthy and would have been causing all sorts of trouble, or she's sick too and .... where IS she?  It bothers me that no one picked up on it during the editing process and tossed in a line about her.

 

Do we know if the family had any lingering effects from the malaria?   It can recur after the initial infection.

 

I absolutely hate the end of this.  I know what's said about real-life Pa and running away from debts, etc, but the end of the book paints Pa in such a bad light.   They had *just* planted this huge garden, they had this nice comfortable house and stable,  They had just watched all the Indians up and move west.   But on a rumor that soldiers were going to kick them out, he loses his temper and loads them up to leave the next day?   Without the backstory of debt (which original readers wouldn't have), it just shows him to be this hot-headed man who refuses to stick anything out and is fine with wasting all that time and money and putting his family at risk again for his stupid pride.  

 

Reading these as an adult is really different - I just can't stand Pa at all now.

[smittykins]

Oregon! That's the place to be!

Where there are no schools for the children.

Do we know if the family had any lingering effects from the malaria?   It can recur after the initial infection.

After they recover, Pa ponders making a trip to town, and Ma remarks that "We need more quinine."  Isn't that what they used to treat malaria at the time?

[BatmanBeatles]

Yes. That was the bitter powder Dr. Tan gave Laura.

[camom]

The first time I read LHOTP, I almost stopped when Pa wouldn't let Jack ride in the wagon.  I was so, so mad!  Glad I kept reading, but that story bugs me to this day.

 

(Who is RWL?)

 

 

If in real life, Ma was pregnant with malaria it could have caused serious issues for her and Carrie.

 

Well, that might explain Carrie as depicted on the TV show!

 

Edited August 25, 2014 by camom

[Athena]

(Who is RWL?)

 

Rose Wilder Lane, Laura and Manly's daughter who "helped" with writing some of the books. 

[BatmanBeatles]

I remember when Mary refused to play hop scotch because it wasn't lady-like. I thought "Since when?". It 's funny that what we considered normal play was too rough for a lady back in those days.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

(Who is RWL?)

Rose Wilder Lane, Laura and Manly's daughter who "helped" with writing some of the books.

Opinions wildly vary on RWL's contributions. She was a well-known columnist and ghostwriter and certainly assisted with the novels. While she always maintained that she did nothing more than "advise" her mother, the notes and letters with her mother she left behind show that she helped shape the narrative structure of the early novels in particular, with her influence decreasing as the later books were written (due both to LIW's clearer memories of the events that had happened later in her life and also with LIW simply becoming a better writer with practice).

Did RWL write the early novels based off her mother's remembrances, or simply edit what was already written? Nobody knows for sure. What's not in dispute is that RWL knew what was marketable, and certainly prodded her mother to include elements that would be enjoyable to read and sell books.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[juneday]

Opinions wildly vary on RWL's contributions. She was a well-known columnist and ghostwriter and certainly assisted with the novels. While she always maintained that she did nothing more than "advise" her mother, the notes and letters with her mother she left behind show that she helped shape the narrative structure of the early novels in particular, with her influence decreasing as the later books were written (due both to LIW's clearer memories of the events that had happened later in her life and also with LIW simply becoming a better writer with practice).Did RWL write the early novels based off her mother's remembrances, or simply edit what was already written? Nobody knows for sure. What's not in dispute is that RWL knew what was marketable, and certainly prodded her mother to include elements that would be enjoyable to read and sell books.

I'm not quite certain what I think about RWL's hand in the writing/editing process, but it's interesting that her influence decreased as the novels went on, because my favorites are some of the later books (These Happy Golden Years, On the Banks of Plum Creek), and my least favorites, even though I still like them, (LHITBW and Farmer Boy) are the beginning books.

[kikismom]

I read an article that said the later books were full of Rose's fingerprints but Laura wrote the earlier ones. I can't tell. There's a lot of libertarian politics in the De Smet books which sounds like Rose, but when you read The First Four Years which was unedited Laura, she goes off on politics quite cynically.

 

Little House on The Prairie begins the "Federal Govt. threw us out of our home" theme which gets repeated by Laura's Uncle Tom when he tells about the Black Hills in a visit to DeSmet. Never mind that the govt. gave them their homesteads. And LHOTP begins the bit about how the land belongs to people who will do something with it, again part of Tom's saga later...doing something with land being assumed to be farming wheat or building towns, not doing something Native Americans did with it for hundreds of years.

[juneday]

It's always interested me how Rose at least helped edit some/all of the books when I always got the feeling that Laura and Rose's relationship was strained and neither really understood each other.

Yes, the government gives them their land and then proceeds to kick them off it?! Hmm.

[Winipo75]

I find that I'm not enjoying this book as much as I did when I was younger. I never really enjoyed the descriptions of building a roof and doors, etc. (I call those "watching the paint dry" chapters). But now I'm finding other things that bother me and mar my enjoyment. I was bothered that Baby Carrie wasn't mentioned during the malaria episode. Couldn't she have briefly mentioned that she was at a neighbour's house, or something? I also had trouble with Ma falling for the "watermelons did it!" hypothesis. Clearly, they had NOT eaten any watermelons before they all got sick. So, if watermelons caused it, how did they get sick in the first place? I can understand believing old wives' tales, but they had direct evidence from their own experience that contradicted it. 

 

One thing I am enjoying are the little lovey-dovey scenes between Ma and Pa. I didn't remember them from before. When they are moving things into the house, he hugs her "quilts and all." Later, when he is working on the roof, she runs her fingers through his hair to make it stand up on end. Little touches like that make me believe that she really did love Pa, despite his faults.

[SunDevil28]

If I may interject a few thoughts from previous books before moving to LHOTP:

 

Big Woods:  As many mentioned, the story of Pa and the bear/hollow tree really rang false for me.  It seemed like Pa was coming home much later than usual, and really, he must have been drunk to think that a bear would stay frozen in place for such a long time.  And what, exactly, was he trying to accomplish by hitting it on the head with a branch?  Sure, it could have been scared and run away, but it also could have gotten angry and taken care of him in one swipe.  He takes this kind of chance because he couldn't go around, or wait longer than a bear?  Doesn't seem right.

 

Interesting description of Grandma and Grandpa's house.  The aunts have one bedroom and Uncle George has another, and Grandma and Grandpa's bed is in the big common room.  That is the opposite of what I'd expect, both now and at the time.  Why don't the adults get the private room?

 

Farmer Boy:  I misread the order and actually read LHOTP before this, so Almanzo's childhood was even more heavenly compared to Laura's in Kansas.  I must admit that I chuckled aloud at them eating not "ALL the sugar."

 

Prairie:  Wow.  So disappointed in Pa and Ma after really thinking about how dangerous this journey was.  Only a few pages in, Charles decides to leave Wisconsin, saying "If we are going across this year, we must go now.  We can't get across the Mississippi after the ice breaks."  BUT it sounds like it's already too late to cross with certainty.  If it's true that they made it across the day before the ice broke up (or even just a few days), that is way too close for comfort, and too big of a risk to take with your family, no??

 

Not putting Jack in the wagon...I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't!  I would try to rationalize that he was "just" a pet and therefore expendable to Pa, but his only words on the subject are regret that they don't have a good watchdog in wild country.  And here begins Pa doing something irresponsible and only showing regrets and a bit of sense when it's too late.

 

I can't figure out why Carrie has her own cup but Laura and Mary have to share.  Why don't Laura and Mary have their own cups, and Carrie can drink from Ma's?  She's a baby!  How much can a tin cup cost, anyway?  Even Mr. Edwards notices the bogus cup inequity and takes care of it. 

 

Speaking of Mr. Edwards, of course I knew that he delivered the Christmas gifts, but I don't think I caught before this reading that he probably actually purchased most (if not all) of the presents for the Ingalls girls on his own.  It was nice to read how touched Laura and Mary (and Ma and Pa) were.

 

And speaking of Carrie, not only does she get her own tin cup, and the beads (why does a baby need a bead necklace that she is too young to wear??), but she gets all the milk as well?  I didn't know that she was likely a newborn in real life until after I read the book, so it seemed a little sad again.  Of course a baby does need milk, but so do growing girls.  I wish Laura and Mary could have gotten a sip of the first milk.

 

Love that Ma gets in a dig at Pa:  "Eat your breakfast Laura.  You must mind your manners, even if we are a hundred miles from anywhere."

 

Pa taking shortcuts.  Building the house:  "I blame myself.  I should have used skids."  YES, you should have.  Ma was extremely lucky.  And I know Ma encouraged him to use stick-and-daub for the rest of the chimney, but he should have known better, IMO.

Edited August 26, 2014 by SunDevil28

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

Big Woods:  As many mentioned, the story of Pa and the bear/hollow tree really rang false for me.  It seemed like Pa was coming home much later than usual, and really, he must have been drunk to think that a bear would stay frozen in place for such a long time.  And what, exactly, was he trying to accomplish by hitting it on the head with a branch?  Sure, it could have been scared and run away, but it also could have gotten angry and taken care of him in one swipe.  He takes this kind of chance because he couldn't go around, or wait longer than a bear?  Doesn't seem right.

Yeah, I think Pa pulled this story completely out of his ass.  Bet you anything he stayed too long at the nearest saloon, "catching up on the news", and staggered home late.  I can totally see him as an alcoholic.

 

 

Not putting Jack in the wagon...I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't!  I would try to rationalize that he was "just" a pet and therefore expendable to Pa, but his only words on the subject are regret that they don't have a good watchdog in wild country.  And here begins Pa doing something irresponsible and only showing regrets and a bit of sense when it's too late.

Protecting Jack should have been a top priority for Pa.  The family had no sons, and Ma and the girls were left by themselves all day while Pa went out hunting.  Sure, he left Ma the gun every now and then, but having a good watchdog around made a HUGE difference in terms of their safety.  Think of the number of times Jack senses something is amiss before anyone suspects anything; the fact that dumb Pa didn't even think to put him in the wagon makes my blood boil.

 

 

I can't figure out why Carrie has her own cup but Laura and Mary have to share.  Why don't Laura and Mary have their own cups, and Carrie can drink from Ma's?  She's a baby!  How much can a tin cup cost, anyway?  Even Mr. Edwards notices the bogus cup inequity and takes care of it. 

Because Ma is a persnickety bitch.

[kikismom]

.  It seemed like Pa was coming home much later than usual, and really, he must have been drunk to think that a bear would stay frozen in place for such a long time.

 

Yeah, I think Pa pulled this story completely out of his ass.  Bet you anything he stayed too long at the nearest saloon, "catching up on the news", and staggered home late.  I can totally see him as an alcoholic.

 

 

Note the LHOTP story about Pa saying he was followed home by a pack of wolves. The story begins with Pa deciding one afternoon that he should "ride across the prairie and see what he should see." According to him, he finds two bachelors living in a house, and "he stayed there longer than he had meant to". Eventually, "one thing had led to another, until Pa was starting home later than he had meant." Then he "takes a short-cut across the prairie" and out of nowhere come 50 wolves, "three feet at the shoulder if an inch".

Pa constantly accounts for disappearances and late returns with a story of such incredible fabulousity that he seems heroic, and the questions about where the hell he's been all day/night would seem petty to ask. Or so he hopes.

 

BTW: what the hell is a short-cut across the prairie? If not for this amazing pack of wolves (which left him just before he got home coughcough) was he going to take the long way around Kansas? Didn't they say the prairie was flat with hardly any trees? Are there invisible roads you are supposed to stay on?

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I read an article that said the later books were full of Rose's fingerprints but Laura wrote the earlier ones. I can't tell. There's a lot of libertarian politics in the De Smet books which sounds like Rose...

And don't forget FW's big speech to Almanzo about how great the United States is because of its freedom (which RWL's buddy Ayn Rand herself could practically have written) and how it is "the biggest country in the world" (a statement which, AFAIK, has never been factually correct).

[sgittinger]

Reason #1 why Carrie wasn't mentioned when the family was sick; she wasn't born yet, and I guess LIW decided not to mess witb history during that chapter?

[Sharpie66]

I'm wondering if Carrie's physical frailties were around since birth, and that was why she was indulged in everything. I am still really struck by the photograph of the three girls after the Long Winter, where Carrie looks like a swift breeze would blow her over, she is so frail.

[kikismom]

I'm wondering if Carrie's physical frailties were around since birth, and that was why she was indulged in everything. I am still really struck by the photograph of the three girls after the Long Winter, where Carrie looks like a swift breeze would blow her over, she is so frail.

This picture of Carrie was taken a year after Laura married; Carrie was 3 years younger so she would have been 17. She doesn't look 17. I still think lack of folic acid also added to malaria in Ma's pregnancy affected Carrie's development.

http://www.liwfrontiergirl.com/carrie.jpg

[nodorothyparker]

Speaking of Mr. Edwards, of course I knew that he delivered the Christmas gifts, but I don't think I caught before this reading that he probably actually purchased most (if not all) of the presents for the Ingalls girls on his own.

 

I was an adult before it really registered with me that the only reason those girls had Christmas at all was because Mr. Edwards took it upon himself to go get them the meager gifts he did.  And it made me a little sad and angry for them that Ma still hung their stockings knowing she had nothing to put in them.  I mean, what the hell was that?  Even Charles for once is self aware enough to acknowledge that that really wasn't helping matters.  It makes me think even more that people who knew them could see quite clearly just how poorly they lived, which then puts a lot of interactions we see in this and in coming books in an entirely different light.

 

I liked this book as a young kid before I had any real context about all the racism and Pa's shiftless and dodgy nature.  As an adult, it's one of the ones that pisses me off the most.

[BatmanBeatles]

 

And it made me a little sad and angry for them that Ma still hung their stockings knowing she had nothing to put in them.  I mean, what the hell was that?  Even Charles for once is self aware enough to acknowledge that that really wasn't helping matters.

Ma mentioned they still had white sugar. She made those little heart shaped cakes that would have been their only gift if Mr. Edwards hadn't showed up.

[Stargazer3]

Hi, I discovered this thread when I Googled Was Pa a good provider and I have never been so entertained in my life. I just started rereading the Little House books after a few years and I do agree with many of the thoughts here...like Pa not being the most stable husband and Ma being rather harsh but who can really blame her. About LHOTP I did once read online that the Ingalls were squatters on land that was really owned by Native Americans and when the Indians showed up for food and the time they came and took stuff that was actually "rent" that was owed them. Pa never filed a claim on this land because he was really illegally a squatter, which does seem to add to his way of being a bit above doing the right thing.

[camom]

 

the fact that dumb Pa didn't even think to put him in the wagon makes my blood boil.

 

And it's not like he just forgot, he made a conscious decision to not put the dog in the wagon.  When I was younger, I enjoyed the "romantic" vision of the old west.  As an adult, I am appalled by Pa's lack of common sense and the way he did whatever he wanted, no matter what the consequences were for his wife and daughters.

[henrysmom]

I was hoping some of the experts here can point me to a good biography of Laura Ingalls Wilder.  There are so many of them out there and I'd like to read one that doesn't whitewash the truth behind the books, but isn't exactly an all out character assassination either. I'm more interested in the stories behind the books than in the writing process. I've preordered Pioneer Girl but I don't think I can wait until November!  Any suggestions?

[nodorothyparker]

Crap.  I know when I looked a couple of weeks ago, Amazon was showing that Pioneer Girl would be available in September.  Why has it been pushed back again to November.?

[Pickles Aplenty]

Carrie was 17 when that photo was taken?!  She looks 55!

Edited August 26, 2014 by Billina

[Stargazer3]

Henrysmom, I've read Laura Ingalls Wilder, a writer's life by Pamela Smith Hill, Becoming Laura Ingalls Wilder by John E. Miller, and his book Laura Ingalls Wilder's Little Town. Those are excellent. The Ghost in the Little House by William Holtz is about Rose Wilder Lane and presents rather harsh view Laura and the relationship she had with Rose.

[kikismom]

I was hoping some of the experts here can point me to a good biography of Laura Ingalls Wilder.  There are so many of them out there and I'd like to read one that doesn't whitewash the truth behind the books, but isn't exactly an all out character assassination either. I'm more interested in the stories behind the books than in the writing process. I've preordered Pioneer Girl but I don't think I can wait until November!  Any suggestions?

I don't know if I'm expert lol but here are some of my favorites that are also well reviewed by other people:

http://www.amazon.com/Laura-The-Life-Ingalls-Wilder/dp/0380016362

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/listing/2670386720083?r=1&cm_mmc=GooglePLA-_-TextBook_NotInStock_26To75-_-Q000000633-_-2670386720083

http://www.amazon.com/Laura-Ingalls-Wilder-Writers-Biography/dp/097779556X

 

 

Hi, I discovered this thread when I Googled Was Pa a good provider and I have never been so entertained in my life.

Welcome, glad you could join us, pass the word to any other LH books fans that you know.

[henrysmom]

Many thanks for the book suggestions.  Maybe I'll just have to get them all :)

 

Has anybody read this one?  It seems to be more about Rose Wilder Lane but sounds fascinating:

http://www.amazon.com/Wilder-Rose-Susan-Wittig-Albert/dp/0989203506/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1409073602&sr=1-1&keywords=wilder+rose+susan+wittig+albert

 

And a ditto on the picture of Carrie--she is 17 in that pic!?  I just assumed it was taken when she was in her 40s.  

[jammaker]

 

I was an adult before it really registered with me that the only reason those girls had Christmas at all was because Mr. Edwards took it upon himself to go get them the meager gifts he did.  And it made me a little sad and angry for them that Ma still hung their stockings knowing she had nothing to put in them.

 

I'm still confused about this, really.   As it's told, it's because of the rain flooding the river.   What would they have told the girls if the weather was fine?

 

I guess I always wanted to hope that Mr. Edwards was going into town, so Pa asked him to pick up the tin cups and a stick of candy for the girls (and he'd pay him back).   So the intent was all along for Mr. Edwards to bring the gifts over, but when the river got flooded it meant he wouldn't be able to.   Otherwise I could see Ma knitting them new mittens or repurposing an old dress into little aprons or *something*, just as when their plans fell through she decided to hang up the stockings and make them cakes of the white sugar.   I guess I don't see Ma letting Christmas just pass with no gifts, because if she were content to do that she wouldn't be last-minute making cakes after the girls went to bed.

[BatmanBeatles]

I do like the story Mr. Edwards told the girls about meeting Santa Clause.

[kikismom]

 

 

And a ditto on the picture of Carrie--she is 17 in that pic!?  I just assumed it was taken when she was in her 40s.  

Here's a picture of the whole family; Carried is on the left behind Ma. I feel sorry for her,  being photographed next to Laura.

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/1600000/The-Ingalls-Family-laura-ingalls-wilder-1607600-675-499.jpg

[smittykins]

And don't forget FW's big speech to Almanzo about how great the United States is because of its freedom (which RWL's buddy Ayn Rand herself could practically have written) and how it is "the biggest country in the world" (a statement which, AFAIK, has never been factually correct).

And, don't forget, it was BECAUSE OF FARMERS!!1!1

[juneday]

Whoa, Carrie looks a lot older than 17 in that picture to me.

I always wondered how different that part of the story where Mr. Edwards brought the girls Christmas presents would have been if he hadn't been able to and all they would have received was the little cakes. That would definitely have made for a more depressing storyline.

Edited August 26, 2014 by heckyeahheartland

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Whoa, Carrie looks a lot older than 17 in that picture to me.

Remember that bobody smiled in photographs because of the long exposure times. An an example: stand in front of a mirror and crack a nice, natural smile. Now hold it for three or four minutes, which would have been a late-1800s exposure time. See if you don't look and feel ridiculous. Hence, everybody had these dour, serious expressions in the photos of the days.

[stopeslite]

Ermahgerd, I just discovered this thread! 

 

I have all of the books pretty much memorized. They have always been my go-to books when I just need something super comforting to read. Ok, that sounds strange given how awful most of it really was when you pay attention, but those Garth Williams illustrations, and I tend to fixate on the chapters like the careful descriptions of Laura's brown poplin dress and Ma's dress with the strawberry buttons and Almanzo's amazing family dinners... :)  

 

I also like the book in kikismom's first link, the Zochert book. I got it at a book sale years ago and it's fascinating. I got to visit the Wilder homestead in Missouri a few years ago, and it was great, except that they didn't allow anyone to take pictures of any of the good stuff. One thing that struck me was that Almanzo wasn't a very tall guy either - he did build everything specific to Laura, who was pretty short, but the tour guide mentioned that he built the stuff so he could use it too, and everything in the house was within reach for a shorter person. He might have been taller, but the permanent limp from his illness kept him a bit hunched for life. 

 

Ok, back to this week's book - I think Ma was so "mean" to Laura and Mary because she was really trying to instill in them the concept of selflessness, and Carrie was just the only person around to give things to. Even when I was a kid, I felt sorry for Ma, never getting her way and always putting up with Pa and his get-broke-quick schemes.  

[juneday]

Remember that bobody smiled in photographs because of the long exposure times. An an example: stand in front of a mirror and crack a nice, natural smile. Now hold it for three or four minutes, which would have been a late-1800s exposure time. See if you don't look and feel ridiculous. Hence, everybody had these dour, serious expressions in the photos of the days.

True, I hadn't thought about that in context with that picture. I'm sure I would look ridiculous, haha.

I also loved the descriptions of things that Laura probably considered normal but I find fascinating: the clothes they wore, how they did things back then, even the food (although for the Ingalls it was meager and much of the same stuff over again.)

[stopeslite]

Oh, I forgot I was going to comment on this from back on the first page: 

 

 

This brings up a question--- many things in this story seem to indicate that whatever Charles problem was, it got progressively worse as the years went on. He's even going on in LHITBW about how he likes progress and inventions, but by the time of TLW he's saying things are changing to fast and people can't cope with progress.

 

I think that has to do with Laura herself (and probably a lot of prodding from Rose) and what her publisher wanted. The early books might have been a little more "accurate" about their thoughts on progress, but if you read about the success of them, one of the biggest selling points was that people loved the stories of a simpler time, with those rose colored glasses about how everything was better in the past. My cynical conclusion is that she was playing to her audience by having Pa talk about how "things are changing too fast". 

[kikismom]

Ermahgerd, I just discovered this thread! 

 

 

Welcome, hope you're having fun!

 

One thing that is sad in LHOTP is that they are so grateful when Mr. Edwards brings the Christmas gifts...then when it gets to springtime, you find out that Ma saved one of the sweet potatoes that he had brought. Poor Caroline, having to hide a sweet potato all winter in hopes of having some in the garden. Which she does plant and then has to leave behind with all the other fresh growing vegetables when Pa has his meltdown.

[stopeslite]

 

Which she does plant and then has to leave behind with all the other fresh growing vegetables when Pa has his meltdown.

 

And just when he had put glass in the windows. 

 

It sounds like he and Almanzo had a lot in common - big dreamers, willing to spend a lot of money on showy things (granted, to show their wives how much they loved them, but still), hard workers, but not able to handle the day to day bills well. 

[juneday]

And just when he had put glass in the windows. 

 

It sounds like he and Almanzo had a lot in common - big dreamers, willing to spend a lot of money on showy things (granted, to show their wives how much they loved them, but still), hard workers, but not able to handle the day to day bills well.

Yes, maybe Laura did marry a man similar to her father. Although I like Almonzo better. He didn't drag his family all over the country; and for some reason Laura and Almonzo always seemed a little bit (not much but some) better off than the Ingalls has been. I also think that a lot of it was just truly bad luck to the Wilder's-crops failing, hail storms, droughts, etc.

[Sharpie66]

I was in 5th grade when the Zochert book was published, and just about every girl in my class read it. I always loved the very end of that book, which was novelistic in the way he has Laura dying and then in her last thoughts, back in the wagon beside Mary, with Pa and Ma riding in front. It's got me tearing up right now, just remembering it!

[henrysmom]

This brings up a question--- many things in this story seem to indicate that whatever Charles problem was, it got progressively worse as the years went on. He's even going on in LHITBW about how he likes progress and inventions, but by the time of TLW he's saying things are changing to fast and people can't cope with progress.

 

It could just be age--how many of us struggle a little with changes (like in technology) that wouldn't have bothered us a bit when we were younger?  I know I do.

 

I'm just finding this whole thread fascinating.  I've been to some of the Little House sites (Pepin, Mansfield, and DeSmit) and found them interesting enough.  And I've read the books of course.  But this thread is giving me a different perspective on things.  I'm hoping the annotated Pioneer Girl book brings up some of the things discussed here.  I'd especially like to know more about Mr. Edwards.  He and Cap Garland were my two favorite supporting characters.

 

On the topic of Cap Garland, has anybody seen this page?

 

http://capgarland.freewebspace.com/

 

They interview Cap's grandniece and she seems to cast doubt on the fact that there even was a heroic "save the town" trek to get wheat.  Which makes me sad.  I loved that story.  Again, maybe Pioneer Girl will address that.

 

And to tie this in with the earlier comments on Carrie's picture, check out some of the ones of Cap.  He died at only age 26 and in a couple of pictures (especially the one with the mustache) he looks about 40.

[BatmanBeatles]

I've always wondered why Ma hated Indians so much?

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

I've always wondered why Ma hated Indians so much?

Lots of people did back then.  Ma feared what she didn't understand.

[BatmanBeatles]

Pa seemed a bit open-minded about them.

[nodorothyparker]

Caroline was only echoing military and political leaders of the times.  Her "the only good Indian is a dead Indian" mantra has been attributed to Gen. Phil Sheridan, who led most of the Western Indian wars of the period, and was widely repeated in the press even though he would later claim he never said it.  Settlers needed the Indians to be removed or neutralized so they could safely take over the land opened by the Homestead Act, which comes up repeatedly throughout the series.

 

Charles seems downright moderate next to Caroline, but that's probably likely less because of any real open-mindedness and more because he was at least smart enough to realize he needed to not go around deliberately pissing off the people whose land he was encroaching on with all that solitary hunting and trapping he was doing.