Little House Series and Pioneer Girl Readalong

[Stargazer3]

I think that would have been a better way to explain the horse trade too. Several books and websites bring up the fact that there had already been problems with grasshoppers in that area and Pa should have done some research before settling in the area. And the implication was that buying lumber on credit when there was a good possibility of another grasshopper plague was downright foolish. I believe that at this point in the Little House saga things begin to really go downhill for the Ingalls family financial-wise because of poor choices Pa made and they never quite recovered.

[stopeslite]

Most satisfying line of any of the books: "Her cape was prettier than Nellie's, and Nellie had no muff." 

TAKE THAT NELLIE.

 

I feel so sorry for Ma, when she found out they had to live in a dugout. That was a respectable way to get cheap, safe housing, but man. I have old family pictures of a homestead my great-great-greats had, and it looked, well, pretty much like a hole in the ground. 

 

For all the crappy Christmases they had (if we only wish for horses...), I used pretty much the exact way of describing Santa to my kids that Ma used, on purpose because I liked it so much. When they started in at the age of pestering as to whether there really was a Santa, and had mostly figured it out but didn't understand why this Santa thing existed, I told them that Santa was a way for people to be nice to each other without trying to get credit for it. 

[BatmanBeatles]

 

I feel so sorry for Ma, when she found out they had to live in a dugout. That was a respectable way to get cheap, safe housing, but man. I have old family pictures of a homestead my great-great-greats had, and it looked, well, pretty much like a hole in the ground.

The pictures in the book made it sound cute. But yes, they were terrible to live in. They got damp and cold in the winter.

[juneday]

The pictures in the book made it sound cute. But yes, they were terrible to live in. They got damp and cold in the winter.

And a cow (was it a cow?) walked through it!

On the Banks of Plum Creek: the book of locusts and leeches and dugouts, oh my!

[BatmanBeatles]

 

And a cow (was it a cow?) walked through it!

It's a good thing a person didn't fall through the roof.

[PrincessLuceval]

On the Banks of Plum Creek: Ma sucks for giving away Laura's only doll. I hope she felt guilty enough, both in the days after when Laura's mourning the loss, and when Laura finally steals Charlotte back, scalped and frozen. "It had not been wrong for Laura to take back Charlotte. It had been a terrible experience for Charlotte, but Laura had rescued her." It had been a terrible thing for LAURA. And yeah, she got Charlotte back, but it was a different Charlotte after Ma was done with her. Grr.

[kikismom]

 And yeah, she got Charlotte back, but it was a different Charlotte after Ma was done with her. Grr.

It's funny, because at the same age I was given OTBOPC for Christmas, my mother made rag dolls for my sister and I. She made them little calico dresses, and pinafores, and bonnets. They were sewn but the faces were drawn on with colored markers. I took mine, "Janie", to bed with me every night.

Unfortunately, I drooled in my sleep, and one morning I woke the whole house up with my screams...I had drooled on Janie's face and the marker ink ran and my doll looked like the Bride of Chucky.

My mother did not tell me to stop carrying on over a rag doll, she washed her and cut a pink pillowcase for a new face and embroidered the facial features this time so that wouldn't happen again.

Years later she and my sister laughed about how I screamed that morning.

(Janie is still here; she's sitting by the fireplace in a little wood and wicker chair, wearing her bonnet and dress.)

I really identified with Laura and I burned up at how her mother blew off Laura's feelings about her doll.

[BatmanBeatles]

I have to wonder if Ma did that because she felt self conscious about the child's parents helping them out all the time and it was her way of showing them they aren't moochers. I don't know...

[PrincessLuceval]

 

Unfortunately, I drooled in my sleep, and one morning I woke the whole house up with my screams...I had drooled on Janie's face and the marker ink ran and my doll looked like the Bride of Chucky.

Awww, kikismom! I guess Sharpies weren't used, huh? I'm glad your mom was able to embroider her face back. (And man, that's a weird sentence to type.)

[ElderPrice]

Oh don't get me started on Ma so generously giving away LAURA'S doll, her ONE and ONLY toy. Really, bitch? How about we give away your precious china shepherdess instead? You never play with it. And I also get irritated with the mother who lets her kid walk away with someone else's doll, instead of saying (like I say to my grandson) "No, that's not ours, we can't take it."

[Winipo75]

This is my favourite LH book, despite Pa's general stupidity and Ma giving away Laura's doll. That chapter still rankles to this day! She did try to make it better later by fixing Charlotte, but she shouldn't have given away one of Laura's few possessions to begin with. The kid had so little to call her own! Let her keep the damn rag doll!

 

Upon re-reading, I was struck by a poor disciplinary decision Pa made. When Laura goes into the deep water after she's told not to, he dunks her. Problem is, she likes getting dunked, so she does it again and again! Um, dude, if you really want to keep her from drowning in the deep water, don't you think trying a different form of discipline might have been called for since she ENJOYED the method you were using? Tell her she has to stay with Ma and Carrie on the bank. That would be more incentive to keep her away from the deep water!

 

I also enjoy Laura sticking to the letter of the law when her parents tell her not to do something. "Don't you girls slide down that stack of straw." O.K. Sure. We won't slide down it. We'll ROLL down it instead! I have to admit, that gave me a good laugh (and Pa, too, apparently, though he had the good sense to try to hide it). 

 

Wasn't Jack sold with Pet and Patty in real life? I'm finding that I can't forget that upon reading through this time. Every time Laura brings up Jack, I can't help but think, "But he wasn't really there, because Pa gave him away with the horses!" Apparently you need a good guard dog in Kansas, but not in Minnesota.

[jammaker]

I love the Christmas tree scene.   You can just feel her awe at this tree covered in gifts, the anticipation, and the amazement at the abundance of gifts.   Almost makes up for the Christmas with the horses and the one at the very end where there are no gifts and Pa ate all the candy.

 

I also love the way Ma explains Santa, and I hope I can remember to draw on it when my kids eventually start questioning.

 

For all that I hate Pa, and Ma and the rag doll, the worst thing about this book is the grasshoppers.  Yuck!!

[juneday]

Oh I love the Christmas tree part, too!

When I was a kid reading these it never occurred to me that Pa bought the horses to use as plow horses for work and "gifted" them to the girls for Christmas as a sly it's-a-gift-for-you-but-really-for-me. Probably because I've always loved horses and thought "why wouldn't the girls actually want them?!" Lol, but I understand now.

Pa looks worse and worse as the books move on, unfortunately.

[sgittinger]

Heh. In re: Charlotte 2.0--when my niece was little she had a doll named Emily that my Ma had sewed for her, complete with button nose. One day, Emily's nose fell off, and there was great weeping until Grandma drew a new nose on with a permanent marker.  And yes, that part of the book still pisses off.

[nodorothyparker]

This was my favorite of the books as a kid, maybe because it was the closest to the TV show at the time.  But now more than 30 years after the first time I read it, Ma giving away Charlotte still makes me seriously angry.  And for her to claim that she didn't know Laura would care?  How do you not know what your child's most cherished toy is when they've only got the one to start with? 

 

I think whoever mentioned that maybe Caroline felt like she had to because of everything the Nelsons did for them is probably right.  A few short paragraphs after it happens Mr. Nelson brings them a load of wood because Pa is off yet again trying to make money and Ma remarks on how good the Nelsons are to them and isn't Laura GLAD she gave Anna her doll.  It makes me wonder just how much "help" the Nelsons were giving them and whether Caroline didn't feel like she wasn't in any position to be making a fuss about their kid taking something from one of hers.  It actually makes me a little sad for both Caroline and Laura.  They're well into the grasshopper chapters at this point and know there likely won't be any crop again the next year.  By now Caroline has probably figured out that despite all of Charles' promises, they won't in fact be "living like kings" and does feel like she can't afford to appear ungrateful.

 

I do love the story of the Christmas tree at church, but yet again it's one of those things that seems a little less magical as an adult when you realize that all those wonderful gifts were charity from Rev. Alden's church back east.  We're supposed to be impressed though that Charles was wearing patched boots so he could give money to the church for their brand-new church bell.

Edited September 1, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[kikismom]

 We're supposed to be impressed though that Charles was wearing patched boots so he could give money to the church for their brand-new church bell.

 

I've wondered about how Pa always does stuff to be Mr. Town Popularity, so he can ingratiate himself with his neighbors knowing he'll be leaning on them for a loan or a favor or a donation later. He does it in DeSmet as well, and Kansas.  He gets them a free setting of chicks from the Boast's, and butter etc. which is supposedly because he "took them in" the first winter at Silver Lake. Well where else were the Boast's planning to stay, and why would they come in winter if they didn't already have an invite from Pa. He says he has to attend the first meeting because he's "the oldest settler, he could not shirk his duty."  He makes big speeches on behalf of the townsfolk about fair prices in stores and opening up the emigrant car and starting the spelling bees; he's the all-around big-shot which is what people remember instead of that he's the guy who can't keep a job or feed his kids or pay his bills.

[BatmanBeatles]

 

We're supposed to be impressed though that Charles was wearing patched boots so he could give money to the church for their brand-new church bell.

That actually pissed me off. I could tell Caroline was close to chewing Pa out.

[nodorothyparker]

I've wondered about how Pa always does stuff to be Mr. Town Popularity, so he can ingratiate himself with his neighbors knowing he'll be leaning on them for a loan or a favor or a donation later. He does it in DeSmet as well, and Kansas.  He gets them a free setting of chicks from the Boast's, and butter etc. which is supposedly because he "took them in" the first winter at Silver Lake. Well where else were the Boast's planning to stay, and why would they come in winter if they didn't already have an invite from Pa. He says he has to attend the first meeting because he's "the oldest settler, he could not shirk his duty."  He makes big speeches on behalf of the townsfolk about fair prices in stores and opening up the emigrant car and starting the spelling bees; he's the all-around big-shot which is what people remember instead of that he's the guy who can't keep a job or feed his kids or pay his bills.

 

I've pondered this a bit too.  We know he was on the school board and was later a justice of the peace among other big shot type positions in De Smet.  Yet he got his start there basically stealing from the railroad and building on land that wasn't his.  Were the people who settled there just as shady as he was so it didn't stand out?  You have to wonder.

[jammaker]

 

I do love the story of the Christmas tree at church, but yet again it's one of those things that seems a little less magical as an adult when you realize that all those wonderful gifts were charity from Rev. Alden's church back east.  We're supposed to be impressed though that Charles was wearing patched boots so he could give money to the church for their brand-new church bell.

 

The charity bit doesn't bother me actually -  there is no way that family (or likely most in the area) should have been spending money on gifts that Christmas, and hearing of their need, Rev. Alden's church donated what they could.   Given their circumstances, it would have been more infuriating to have them spend money on gifts. 

 

I don't understand why Ma and Pa don't make more of the gifts for the girls over the years though.   Pa was semi-handy with wood, he trapped a lot of animals for furs, Ma could sew and knit - they could have, for very little money, made those children some really special gifts.

[ElderPrice]

I wonder about that too. in TLW, Christmas came with no way to get presents, so they used what they had and made each other gifts (except for Pa's suspenders). Why couldn't Ma do this every year for them? Ma could knit mittens or hats, Pa could have made a cape for Laura himself with the furs he trapped or whittled wooden toys etc. To rely on charity year after year to give your kids a Christmas present really speaks to one's lack of character. Unless someone steps up, the kids get draft horses or nothing.

 

And take a drink every time Pa promises that as soon as the wheat comes in, they'll have everything they could ever want! And sad trombone when there's no crop ( wha wha whaaaaa)

[nodorothyparker]

I think it's the fact that they're getting coats and winter clothes, bottom line things that their parents should have been able to provide if they were going to raise these kids in the balmy climate of Minnesota, that bugs.  Sure, they got a few more frivilous things, I think a book or two and their little jewel boxes, but it was mostly winter clothes that they clearly needed but didn't have until the church decided to provide them for them.  This comes right on the heels of the chapter about their trip to the store where we see that both Caroline and Charles didn't get material to make clothes they needed because they didn't anticipate having a crop the next year either.   So would the kids just have been expected to make it through the winter without coats that fit had the church not come through?  It seems like the answer would be yes.

[kikismom]

The charity bit doesn't bother me actually -  there is no way that family (or likely most in the area) should have been spending money on gifts that Christmas, and hearing of their need, Rev. Alden's church donated what they could.   Given their circumstances, it would have been more infuriating to have them spend money on gifts. 

 

I don't understand why Ma and Pa don't make more of the gifts for the girls over the years though.   Pa was semi-handy with wood, he trapped a lot of animals for furs, Ma could sew and knit - they could have, for very little money, made those children some really special gifts.

They start getting stuff from Reverend Alden's congregation in Plum Creek, and still doing it in De Smet. As mentioned by others, to keep doing it ---and having a new baby besides (Grace) is just wrong.

At work we "adopted" a family that social services had on a list, for Christmas. We happily donated many nice new things, toys and necessities and clothing. We decided to do it again the next year, and who did we get? The same family, only with 3 more! The mother had another baby, and the 2 teenage daughters each had one! Knowing they didn't have enough to survive! Yet we had people at work who put off having children because they wanted to have more financial security first.

That's when you feel like you're being used.

I agree that Charles and Caroline should have been able to make something. My mom (mentioning again!) once made an entire Noah's Ark with animals that she knitted, 2 of each kind. She used little end bits of yarn and even socks and it was just enough to make little lions and zebras etc.She always made our Halloween costumes. My dad made us a dollhouse out of scraps of wood. Caroline used to cut paper dolls out of scrap paper in the Big Woods, what happened to that?

When you are a child reading you feel sad for them; as an adult you'd like to give the parents a piece of your mind.

[sgittinger]

I'm surprised Ma let Laura keep the cape (Nellie had no muff, you know); Heaven forbid we should be vain.

[jammaker]

 

 

They start getting stuff from Reverend Alden's congregation in Plum Creek, and still doing it in De Smet. As mentioned by others, to keep doing it ---and having a new baby besides (Grace) is just wrong.

At work we "adopted" a family that social services had on a list, for Christmas. We happily donated many nice new things, toys and necessities and clothing. We decided to do it again the next year, and who did we get? The same family, only with 3 more! The mother had another baby, and the 2 teenage daughters each had one! Knowing they didn't have enough to survive! Yet we had people at work who put off having children because they wanted to have more financial security first.

 

I don't mind them accepting in charity in years when they don't have enough - by no fault of their own (i.e. crop failures, unexpected disasters).  So this one doesn't bother me - the entire town was sunk by the grasshoppers; the entire town got gifts at the Christmas tree.   Charles did go get work, they would have been able to scrape by.  Sure, the girls' coats were too short, but they weren't running around in winter barefoot or starving, and they had dresses that fit.

 

Having another baby (two, really, there was the boy that died too) when they couldn't afford it ... ehh.  There was no Little Pharmacy on the Prairie dispensing reliable birth control, and with food shortages, hardships, etc, Ma's cycle may not have even been very predictable.   I'm not willing to condemn them on that, because even these days with available reliable birth control, accidents do happen.  I suspect, given their religious beliefs, they were of the mind that "God will provide" - ergo willingly accepting the handouts from church as God's provisions.

 

Were they freeloaders?  Yes, and it bothers me, too, that it was a pattern of behavior rather than an isolated need.  But I'm glad for the girls' sake that Pa's pride didn't stand in the way of accepting charity that means they can have warm winter coats and a few nice things besides.

[nodorothyparker]

Caroline used to cut paper dolls out of scrap paper in the Big Woods, what happened to that?

 

In the chapter about giving away Charlotte, the girls offered Anna Nelson their paper dolls made out of wrapping paper first.  She tore at least one in half and I think was reaching for the others.  That's when good old Mary volunteered Charlotte to keep her busy.

 

They were pretty much on the permanent dole from Rev. Alden and his congregation, weren't they?  As a kid it didn't really stand out to me, but I'm now realizing that he's mentioned in nearly every book onward with Christmas barrels and shipments of reading material, etc.  He's also the one who pointed them in the direction of Mary's college for the blind in Silver Lake.

[kikismom]

It takes a long time to build up a farm, and usually 5 years before you will break even or profit. Charles throws in the towel too soon; even when Ma makes him stay in De Smet, he just hangs on long enough to fulfill the homestead rule. (and that is with taking out a mortgage of $800 in the sixth year which eats up what he makes from selling it.) He does the wrong things first, over and over. In the Bible it says "plant your fields before you build your house". Double meaning there, but whether you believe or not it's good advice. Make sure you have a livelihood before you start on comforts for yourself.

If you plan to make a go of farming you have to stay there. You don't go into debt. You start small with quick turnover stuff that doesn't need expensive machinery. Pa and Almanzo both go in the opposite direction.

The dugout was crappy; but a sod house would be better. You cut the strips of sod with a long knife, so you don't plow it up but you'll also have some cleared land when you're done. Many people made hay-bale or straw-bale houses and some of those have still lasted till today. Very warm in winter and cool in summer and free.

Or he should have sent Ma and the girls home to stay with the folks until he had worked somewhere for a solid year and saved enough. That would have worked as good birth control too.

My ancestors had a claim in Minnesota at the same time. He sent his wife and kids back when the grasshoppers started. He went to work for the railroad cutting ties for the tracks. Hard work, and he was lonely because he spent the winters on the claim alone. But after 3 years he had money and kept the claim and they ended up very successful for the time, for farmers. 3 years is a long time until you think about Mary going to college for 7 years. You keep busy and it's worth it. Beats wasting all that time and work moving then moving again over and over.

[juneday]

Yes, I definitely think they could have done a lot better had they stayed in one place longer than a few years. (besides Wisconsin and DeSmet.) I know they had unexpected hardships and calamities (crop failures, droughts, etc) but had they stayed in that place and stuck it out and replanted their crops, they could have gotten past that. It does take a while to build a farm up, a few years at least to start making a good profit, and with Pa uprooting them every year and moving, how were they supposed to make a living?

[henrysmom]

What I liked about On the Banks of Plum Creek was the introduction of Nellie Olson, one of the best villains ever in children's literature.  I love the fact that she is a believable villain too--nothing she does is over the top.  Everybody knows kids like her--she is basically just a spoiled brat who is used to getting her own way.  Until Laura gives her a smackdown or two.  Loved the party scenes, where Laura plots to get Nellie into the creek so the crab and the bloodsuckers can get her.  And although patient and kind Ma is often a little too patient or kind for my taste, I did love her calm dealings with Nellie when the little brat says she wouldn't wear a good dress to a country party.  I don't think I'd have been as nice to a kid who said something like that to me, but I think Ma's way of handling Nellie was better than showing any temper.

 

As others have mentioned, I HATE HATE HATE it when Ma gives away Charlotte.  The poor kid has one toy, and you give it away?  Wow.  Makes the stories I hear about my great-grandparents and how they dealt with their kids seem almost benign.  

[BatmanBeatles]

"Snipes! Snipes! Long-legged snipes!"

[Sharpie66]

One of the bios of Laura (possibly the Zochert one) said that Nellie was the schoolyard queen until Laura showed up and everyone eventually started following her lead instead of Nellie's.

[Stargazer3]

What is the story with Pioneer Girl? It was on presale at Amazon for a September 1 release date with a preorder price of$35.95. Then the release date changed to November 20 and the preorder price was $39.95. Today I checked and the preorder price is $21.75, but there is no release date listed. Is there someone associated with the book I can call to get information on the exact price and release date? Amazon didn't have any additional information when I contacted them. This is very confusing.

[juneday]

I hope it comes out, I would love to read it.

[Mybrainhurts]

What is the story with Pioneer Girl? It was on presale at Amazon for a September 1 release date with a preorder price of$35.95. Then the release date changed to November 20 and the preorder price was $39.95. Today I checked and the preorder price is $21.75, but there is no release date listed. Is there someone associated with the book I can call to get information on the exact price and release date? Amazon didn't have any additional information when I contacted them. This is very confusing.

 

Stargazer3, I still show the release date as November 20 on my Amazon order so hopefully it will be released on that day.  I'm guessing that because the publisher is such a small one and the demand is probably larger than first expected (the book was even mentioned on Entertainment Weekly's Bullseye page, which talks about all the hot things in pop culture), they needed to go back and print more books.  

[jammaker]

 

What is the story with Pioneer Girl? It was on presale at Amazon for a September 1 release date with a preorder price of$35.95. Then the release date changed to November 20 and the preorder price was $39.95. Today I checked and the preorder price is $21.75, but there is no release date listed. Is there someone associated with the book I can call to get information on the exact price and release date? Amazon didn't have any additional information when I contacted them. This is very confusing.

 

Amazon also has a pre-order price guarantee so if the price drops between now and release, you'll get the lower price.  If you pre-order it now for the $21.75 and it goes up before release, you will still only pay $21.75.

[Winipo75]

Is it just me, or did Mary's prisspot level increase up to 11 in this book? She didn't bother me in the previous books, but I'm starting to find her annoying. It's odd, she didn't bother me when I read them as a child. I guess that's probably because I was the one that would say, "No, we can't do that! We're not allowed! I'll tell!" I guess I've loosened up in my old age, because now I find it irritating. 

 

Also, when I read the chapter "Wonderful House" as a child, I was in awe. It truly did seem wonderful, and it was an enjoyable chapter to read. Now all I can think is, "Yeah, now you've got this beautiful house that you haven't paid for, and when your wheat crop fails, you'll end up buried in debt!" Charles really should have waited until he had the money before he built a house. I mean, they were getting along alright in the soddy. They could have stuck it out awhile longer. 

 

"I want to play Uncle John!" "Ring around a rosy!" "Uncle John!"

[Pickles Aplenty]

I always thought it was cool that Mary and Laura slept upstairs, with a ladder to take them up.  I really, really wanted that kind of room when I was a kid.

 

 

Is it just me, or did Mary's prisspot level increase up to 11 in this book? She didn't bother me in the previous books, but I'm starting to find her annoying. It's odd, she didn't bother me when I read them as a child.

I didn't hate Mary until she went blind.  At that point, she became St. Mary and Laura had to work her fingers to the bone while Mary held Grace in the rocker and sewed and looked all blonde and angelic.  She didn't bother me nearly as much when I was a kid, but this re-read as an adult made me hate her.

 

 

Also, when I read the chapter "Wonderful House" as a child, I was in awe. It truly did seem wonderful, and it was an enjoyable chapter to read. Now all I can think is, "Yeah, now you've got this beautiful house that you haven't paid for, and when your wheat crop fails, you'll end up buried in debt!" Charles really should have waited until he had the money before he built a house. I mean, they were getting along alright in the soddy. They could have stuck it out awhile longer.

Ha!  That's exactly what I thought when I read this chapter the second...third...whatever time around.  I swear, Pa gets dumber with every book.  The house sounded lovely, but they didn't have money for those clean, pine boards, OR the real broom, OR the nice cookstove.  Maybe plant something before you buy your family a bunch of shit, eh, Charles?

[smittykins]

I didn't hate Mary until she went blind.  At that point, she became St. Mary and Laura had to work her fingers to the bone while Mary held Grace in the rocker and sewed and looked all blonde and angelic.  She didn't bother me nearly as much when I was a kid, but this re-read as an adult made me hate her.

 

Not to mention Laura having to become her "seeing-eye sister"(TM someone from Free Jinger).

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

One of the bios of Laura (possibly the Zochert one) said that Nellie was the schoolyard queen until Laura showed up and everyone eventually started following her lead instead of Nellie's.

Which "Nellie:" Nellie Owens or Genevieve Masters?

[Pickles Aplenty]

I heard it was Nellie Owens.

[Athena]

On the Banks of Plum Creek: The more I re-read these books, the more uncomfortable I am with Charles Ingalls. While the books have some lovely moments especially with Laura exploring the wild and the glimpses of frontier life, I get annoyed with Pa. He buys lumber for a house in the spring on credit of the wheat he will harvest later. It is a big lack of foresight. He does not research the area they move. The locusts and the winters are really rough to read.

 

On a positive note, I continue to fall for Laura again. She relatable to most girls. Aside from the moment where Ma gives Charlotte away, I have to hand it to Caroline. She does very well under the circumstances. I have also liked every Christmas scene in the books so far. I like how it was a cherished time of family, love, and unselfish behaviour among people. There is a deep sense of gratitude and warmth in the gift scene. I think Caroline and Charles do really love each other. Charles loves his family, and I feel sorry for the family.I continue to have mixed feelings about the books, but some of my favourite moments will come as Laura grows up.

[BatmanBeatles]

I like when Ma suggests the girls play games because they missed Pa too much to study.

[Pickles Aplenty]

This re-read is killing me, to be honest.  The innocence and "snapshot" feel of the series ends with Farmer Boy, and then it's on to hidden Libertarian agenda.  A lot of the charm has been sucked out of it, and I'm not sure I can enjoy these books the way I did when I was twelve.  Laura's voice is nearly eclipsed by Rose's, and Rose really sucks in a lot of ways.  Ugh.

[stopeslite]

One thing I just noticed about the playing they did - in this book, it says that Ma taught them how to use the thimble on the glass to make designs. But in the Big Woods, they already know how to thimble-paint on frost. Continuity error! 

[juneday]

Out of pure curiosity, where does Rose's Libertarian agenda and her hand in the novel seem to come across strongly in this book-like what parts/passages to you guys? I agree but I'm interested in knowing which ones you think.

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

Out of pure curiosity, where does Rose's Libertarian agenda and her hand in the novel seem to come across strongly in this book-like what parts/passages to you guys? I agree but I'm interested in knowing which ones you think.

I shouldn't have said anything, because I'm ahead in the series, and it's a later book that pissed me off.  Something said in the beginning of The Long Winter.

[stillshimpy]

Hey, just passing by here.

Nellie Olsen is believed to be a composite character based on three real people. So there isn't one inspiration for her.

Also, Rose was a libertarian, but so was Laura (and kind of famously a miser , which is completely understandable for anyone who experienced the hardships she did and then lived through the depression). So just super briefly:

Out of pure curiosity, where does Rose's Libertarian agenda and her hand in the novel seem to come across strongly in this book-like what parts/passages to you guys? I agree but I'm interested in knowing which ones you think.

RWL and LIW concealed the fact that the state actually paid for Mary's blind school education, because Laura was loathe to admit that her family had benefited from a government program. It's kind of interesting to keep in mind when reading about all the sweat and toil to send Mary to the school for the blind. The toiling absolutely happened, it just wasn't really done to procure Mary's education. Although I'm not sure if there's a record of what it was in service to, it's a safe bet that it had to do with just maintaining the family in general.

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

Nellie Olsen is believed to be a composite character based on three real people. So there isn't one inspiration for her.

Yes, that is why we were discussing which "Nellie" the OtBoPC Nellie was based on.

 

 

Also, Rose was a libertarian, but so was Laura (and kind of famously a miser , which is completely understandable for anyone who experienced the hardships she did and then lived through the depression).

If you want to join a good discussion about it, there is another LH thread in the book forums.  I tried to provide a link, but for some reason it wasn't working.

[stillshimpy]

Thanks, Billina, I've seen the other discussion.

My understanding has been that it wasn't a case of Nellie in On the Banks of Plum Creek being inspired by one specific person they encountered during that time period though. That in three different settings the Ingalls encountered someone who contributed to the characterization, but that it didn't break down along the lines of "In Plum Creek it was _____" and then in "These Happy Golden Years Nellie was actually ______" , but rather that Nellie's character incorporates the actions of those three people, but without being firmly attached to the time of the books.

Does that make sense? That the details of her character were gathered and transported around in the timeline of the story to help with narrative flow.

Edited September 4, 2014 by stillshimpy

[henrysmom]

A little off topic, but since we are nearly to the "Mary goes blind" years, here is an online book written by the school she went to.  It has a chapter on the "Mary Ingalls era":

 

http://ibsssalumni.org/html/gleanings_from_our_past.htm

 

It always seems so sad to me that Mary apparently got a very good education (zoology, chemistry, and philosophy were among the courses she had to take) and she still ended up staying with her family with no income other than she made making fly nets for horses.  Again, the good old days really weren't all that good.

[Pickles Aplenty]

Didn't Mary teach Sunday school at some point, or am I imagining things?