S37.E15: The Cave of the Wolf

[shantown]

Quote

After a sneaky plan to sabotage one team is exposed during the “Boom Raiders” mission, massive rifts appear in numerous friendships. The Compromised Agent makes a bold move at the Lair as two fight for survival during the “Burning Bridges” elimination.

Airs 11/17/21 from 8:00-9:32pm on MTV
(many thanks to @Lantern7 for the summary assist!)

[AntFTW]

Fessy socks!?!? What the actual fuck… 😑

Edited November 18, 2021 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

Knew Josh was going home the moment CT said this is a new, focused Josh. Everyone saying nice shit about Josh the whole episode; in the beginning; during the daily challenge; and during the elimination.

[DEL901]

Kyle is an idiot, but a crafty one.   As soon as he saw the challenge, he picked Josh instead of Emmanuel.  

Josh keeps talking about winning to help his family.  Did he already blow his Big Brother half million?

[AntFTW]

11 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Kyle is an idiot, but a crafty one.   As soon as he saw the challenge, he picked Josh instead of Emmanuel.

Kyle is many thing but I wouldn’t call him an idiot. At least not a complete idiot. On the idiot scale of 1 to Josh, he’s about a 3 or 4. Going in, I thought Tori and CT had a solid plan to work together because they know their chances of winning weren’t great so why not team up with Sapphire against Emerald? Leave it to Kyle to fuck up a plan that is literally in his benefit. His team could have won. That’s where he’s an idiot but when he fucks up and he has to clean up his mess, his game is freaking amazing.

I would bet on Josh to be completely clumsy and lose the elimination too.

11 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Josh keeps talking about winning to help his family.  Did he already blow his Big Brother half million?

Yes.

Edited November 18, 2021 by AntFTW

[Lantern7]

That must have been a cold day in hell. Everyone in the audience was rooting for Josh. Okay, it was more against Kyle, but I can't remember support being 100/0 in any elimination. And Josh . . . blows it. Typical. I mean, he did come close to beating Kyle, but he exits the game with squat yet again. That's his lot . . . he's gonna get on the show, say and do stupid things, underperform in missions, get ripped on by the other players and the editors, and he gets sent home. The saddest thing is that he knows that will happen every time, and he keeps coming back. He could play a perfect game, and the editors would zero in on the stupid stuff.

Yeah, I could make fun of Josh crying . . . but with him, I know those were genuine tears. I get how easily he gets butthurt, I can emphasize with him on a few levels, but he makes it so hard not to rip on him.

Kyle blows the mission, almost blows the plan to keep Emerald out of the Agency, pisses off damn near every person there . . . and he called CT "Chris" to his face. Who does that? That was Kyle trying to make a friendly connection, and it was so transparent.

With stuff on and off the camera, is there anyone to root for that doesn't feel dirty? Obviously, I go to CT, but he still can be an asshole. There's also Emanuel . . . but then he leans too hard into the vampire gimmick. I know Emy is a pain in the ass, but she gets me with "Meester TJ." I'm weak.

I liked the mission. Fewer fierce collisions than I had anticipated. Tori tried to step to Kaycee. Apparently, Kacey only tells us about playing tackle football. Tori did not pick up on that at all.

[aghst]

The Daily was fine, a series of potential hall brawls but I don't think even the biggest guys want to be crashing into others more than a few times.  Unless the opponent is knocked out, you just slow down yourself in getting the dynamites, which is the object of the game, not hitting other people.

However, with 3 teams, probably not the best time for this particular daily challenge.  It was always going to be a matter of two teams making a deal or at least just not going after each other even in the absence of a deal.

And it makes sense why the two smaller teams would make the deal against the team with the numbers.  Though if Emerald was smart, they should have trie to cut a deal first with one of the other cells rather than letting them gang up against them.

Or maybe this daily and the deal between Sapphire and Ruby was all scripted, to make Devin whine.

They all tried to play the friend card.  But people don't come here to make friends.  They may end up becoming friends but the narrative is that they need the money to help family and friends.  I wish just one of them would be honest and say they want the money for themselves, to get themselves some nice things, kick back for awhile, etc.

Honestly, Kyle should have picked Devin in the elimination as he's the weakest choice he had.  OK, you didn't try to eliminate your friend this week but are you going to let him beat you in the Final if you both get there?  So what does it matter if you deprive him of chance to win the prize now or later?

Yeah Emanuel's "I'm going to drink your blood" schtick is tiresome but the producers are probably urging him and the others to talk trash in those talking heads.

Josh crumbled under pressure, that last miss of the bell in crunch time lost him the elimination.  Sure fatigue was a factor but Kyle did the last few jumps methodically, walking up to the edge, gathering himself, timing the jump with the swinging of the bell.

He didn't shake Kyle's hands either as he ran off.

CT and Logan had to know Kyle was going to take his spot back in the Emerald.  But honestly, they didn't want to pick any other guys and Kyle taking a Sapphire dynamite gave them the excuse to choose him.

And Kyle doesn't need to prove anything to CT.  He's motivated to win so he's going to try his best, which is all you can ask of him.  If there is another male elimination, someone will try to infiltrate Sapphire.

[AncientNewbie]

Well, the editors get some praise this time because I actually felt sorry for the goof. I was sure we were getting a winner's edit when we didn't see his usual irrational behavior. Or else I'm so used to Josh being Josh that I just don't see it anymore. I think Kyle chose well, though, because he needed a move to stay in the game. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by AncientNewbie

[joanne3482]

Honestly, I could almost see the whole dynamite thing as being a brilliant manipulation on the sapphire team's part. They got emerald and ruby to fight with each other, which they totally did, so the three of them could slip through with minimal issue. Did Amanda and Big T even run? You had Tori and Kaycee at each other's throats and Josh and Devin at Kyle's throat. Because ruby and emerald were so busy fighting each other, Emy was able to slip through in a way she shouldn't have been. If it was planned, it was kind of brilliant. 

I must be honest, I kind of was rooting for Kyle to win only because he's such a pot stirrer and it would make everyone in the house mad. That was fun. I just wish he had infiltrated emerald instead of sapphire. That would have been even more fun. I haven't liked how nobody would infiltrate emerald. They had been winning. Either infiltrate and bring the team down or infiltrate and be on a winning team that ensures you won't get sent to the lair. 

[GodBless13]

35 minutes ago, joanne3482 said:

Honestly, I could almost see the whole dynamite thing as being a brilliant manipulation on the sapphire team's part. They got emerald and ruby to fight with each other, which they totally did, so the three of them could slip through with minimal issue. Did Amanda and Big T even run? You had Tori and Kaycee at each other's throats and Josh and Devin at Kyle's throat. Because ruby and emerald were so busy fighting each other, Emy was able to slip through in a way she shouldn't have been. If it was planned, it was kind of brilliant. 

I must be honest, I kind of was rooting for Kyle to win only because he's such a pot stirrer and it would make everyone in the house mad. That was fun. I just wish he had infiltrated emerald instead of sapphire. That would have been even more fun. I haven't liked how nobody would infiltrate emerald. They had been winning. Either infiltrate and bring the team down or infiltrate and be on a winning team that ensures you won't get sent to the lair. 

THIS!!!!

This is exactly what I was going to comment on and you said it perfectly! It really annoyed me how Kyle went to Sapphire. He had an opportunity to actually switch up despite saying he wanted to go to the Sapphire team and go to the Emerald team and be with his best friend Devin as he claims so why not get on the Emerald team and take Emanuel's place. Also, it would've shaken things up too. Amanda is the ONLY one who has actually shaken things up on the Emerald team especially since they have been winning daily missions. Once again another opportunity blown and it just bugs me. I liked the Sapphire team as it was before Kyle did his switch. Looking forward to next episode to see how the new dynamic works out. 

[Blueboxes]

Kyle doesn't want to be on Emerald for the same reason Cory & Nelson didn't want to be together on Ruby.

If Kyle is on Sapphire and Sapphire wins - he is safe & can protect Devin from getting voted in. Devin does the same if Emerald wins. If they are on the same team, their alliance is less valuable. 

[AntFTW]

8 hours ago, joanne3482 said:

I must be honest, I kind of was rooting for Kyle to win only because he's such a pot stirrer and it would make everyone in the house mad. That was fun. I just wish he had infiltrated emerald instead of sapphire. That would have been even more fun. I haven't liked how nobody would infiltrate emerald. They had been winning. Either infiltrate and bring the team down or infiltrate and be on a winning team that ensures you won't get sent to the lair. 

I agree. I said the same thing when Amanda infiltrated. Although Amanda took Tori's spot on Emerald, Amanda played it safe still. I said last week that I wanted a wrecking ball to go through Emerald. I still need that wrecking ball. Emerald losing a number with Josh going home is still not enough for me. Amanda lit the fuse and Kyle could have blown it up but the few infiltrations that have happened have been pretty safe. However, all Kyle wants to do is be on a team with CT. It could be just him, CT, and no one else and Kyle would be a happy camper.

Separately, I want to discuss this issue of "you should play for me to win" mentality that Devin seems to have. I need Devin to step outside of himself for one minute. Tori was forced to go to a new team. She doesn't want to be on a losing team. She doesn't want her team to be made weaker by losing one of their guys. Therefore, she has to play for her team to win. Tori's goal and Devin's goal are no longer aligned. Why does Devin refuse to see that?

Edited November 18, 2021 by AntFTW

[lilabennet]

8 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Separately, I want to discuss this issue of "you should play for me to win" mentality that Devin seems to have. I need Devin to step outside of himself for one minute. Tori was forced to go to a new team. She doesn't want to be on a losing team. She doesn't want to team to be made weaker by losing one of their guys. Therefore, she has to play for her team to win. Tori's goal and Devin's goal are no longer aligned. Why does Devin refuse to see that?

He's a sanctimonious hypocrite?

[aghst]

Kyle believes CT is the best men competitor left and he's probably not wrong.

They're pretty close to the Final, probably a couple of eliminations left.

So of course he's going to go on CT's team.  He's choosing CT over Nelson, Devin and Emanuel.

 

 

[AncientNewbie]

53 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Separately, I want to discuss this issue of "you should play for me to win" mentality that Devin seems to have. I need Devin to step outside of himself for one minute.

He really needs to. Even if he thinks that he's a benevolent dictator in charge of all the moves, if they'd just trust him, he's still delusional. There are people there who are not going to be all in on his plan to get other people than them to the final and the numbers are too low to risk it. 

[ImpinAintEasy]

I was sure Josh was getting a winner’s edit, or at the very least a finalist’s edit. But leave  it to Josh to crumble under pressure. He’s just simply uncoordinated. Watching him run in the training montage even looked awkward. 
 

I’m rooting for Kyle to win. I like Kyle, always have. Sure, I can do without his Corey impression with his ‘doing it for my baby’, but he is funny and an underrated competitor. 
 

 

[Unclejosh]

Kyle knows that CT is most likely going to win if he makes the final so he will do anything to be on his team.  But I think he also doesn't want to piss of Devin his ACTUAL real friend in the game so he faked like he forgot the instructions and took a Sapphire dynamite hoping that if Emerald did somehow win, Devin wouldn't think he was plotting against him and would pick Nelson over him to go in.  All in all for all his arguing with CT about being voted in, I think he wanted it so he could switch.  It ended up working out exactly how he wanted in the end.

[LaurelleJ]

Playing the song buzzkill when they went back to the house after Amanda switching to Emerald was hilarious, loved it, loved the editors. I hate that the team feels like they need to kiss Amanda's ass so that she will be a good teammate. She didn't come over there to sabotage, she came over because they win. Josh says that Tori is out there running with him, Amanda replies she's not doing that and that the final is not about running.....but yeah Amanda that is a big part of it. You want a strong team to carry you to the final, but you do not want to acknowledge that you will be an anchor to the team, and are banking on the team being so strong that having you on it will not impede their ability to win. 

CT continues to be the challenge GOAT by suggesting that the two cells work together to take on Emerald. That scene with Tori, I wonder if that was filmed after the daily challenge to help push the story, or if they really talked about it before the mission, because how would they know that it would be a mission where two teams could work together. I don't know what Kyle's problem is because the plan was clear. Emerald emerald emerald. Was that an honest mistake or was CT right and Kyle plays the middle because he was still banking on Emerald winning? 

I love Devin, but he continues to call everyone selfish while playing a selfish game himself. What does he expect, Tori just to roll over for him, weaken her own team and sabotage her chances at the final for YOU? Guarantee if the roles were reversed he would do the same. Leave her with a team of one guy and Big T and let YOU skate to the final???? He acts as if he single handedly is the reason for everyone in that room still being there.Kaycee and Amanda can shut up about Kaycee running into Tori. Amanda weren't you so scared of Tori running into you that you tried to jump out of the way?

I wonder if Kyle's strategy is just to be so bad that the people will leave him alone so his team can continue to lose. I was not shocked he picked Josh when he saw the game. It was a good strategy. For a while I thought Kyle would go to Emerald and take Emmanuel's spot, but then I thought duh, he wants to go to CT, so CT can literally put him on his back for the final. It's so funny that every team switch makes Emerald weaker and another team stronger. Ruby with Nelson, Tori, and Logan is looking pretty good. I don't think Big T will make it to the final.  

My predictions for next week. If:
Emerald wins: Tori (agency vote) vs. Big T  Devin will try to keep Tori out but Nany, Kaycee and Amanda will want to get rid of the stronger Ruby player.
Ruby wins: Amanda (agency vote) vs. Emy. Though I wouldn't put it past Amanda to pick Nany. 
Sapphire wins: Amanda (agency vote) vs. Big T again 

Edited November 19, 2021 by LaurelleJ

[mojoween]

A 30% chance is not a 0% chance, Josh.  Quit whining ya big baby. Also BYEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

I know you weren’t talking about me, but I was shouting your name, Kyle.

What in the ever loving fucking fuck was Devin talking about?  How does he get through those narrow halls with his giant entitled ass?

[MaggieG]

Devin needs to stop acting like everyone else owes him the win. 

[DEL901]

13 hours ago, mojoween said:

A 30% chance is not a 0% chance, Josh.  Quit whining ya big baby. Also BYEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

I know you weren’t talking about me, but I was shouting your name, Kyle.

What in the ever loving fucking fuck was Devin talking about?  How does he get through those narrow halls with his giant entitled ass?

And it was always going to depend on the type od challenge.  Kyle may be annoying but he isn’t stupid.  He knew he had a better chance against Josh in a balance related challenge. 

Devin has already started counting his winnings.   It will bite him because there are still some strong players left. 

[Fretful]

3 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Devin has already started counting his winnings.   It will bite him because there are still some strong players left. 

I would put Devin as the weakest man there at the moment, although Emanuel is something os a wildcard. Kyle could actually win this thing if he gets to the end- he's done well in finals before.

For the women, I don't see anyone but Kaycee winning, unless Emy has one more trick up her sleeve.

[RedbirdNelly]

I'm a fan of Devin for his commentary. I loved him last season asking Josh to answer math questions and trolling big brother.

However, he is really getting on my nerves. I want Tori or someone to ask him how he defines selfish--because from where I sit, he seems to think it means "play your game so I win." This is not a 7 people take the money home show. If it was, he would have a point that she should play to protect Emerald enough for her to get back on and kick out Amanda. But it is not. He also keeps acting like he single handedly picked who was still there. He did not. 

I am so thankful for Amanda. If she had not won, imagine how dull this episode would have been. Thank you, Amanda, for creating some chaos. So glad Emerald lost a number.

[millennium]

On 11/18/2021 at 12:17 PM, AntFTW said:

Separately, I want to discuss this issue of "you should play for me to win" mentality that Devin seems to have. I need Devin to step outside of himself for one minute. Tori was forced to go to a new team. She doesn't want to be on a losing team. She doesn't want her team to be made weaker by losing one of their guys. Therefore, she has to play for her team to win. Tori's goal and Devin's goal are no longer aligned. Why does Devin refuse to see that?

Despite Bananas describing Devin as a "poor man's Wes," Devin has never wanted anything more than to be the next Bananas.  What Devin did to Tori tonight was lifted directly from the Bananas playbook.  Think back to Battle of the Exes II where Bananas pilloried Sarah for her decision to send Nany and him to Elimination.  He whined and pouted but worst of all he tried to make Sarah feel like shit for putting her interests -- and not his -- first.   His whole attitude was "you had one job and that was to pave my way to victory."  It's the same guilt trip Devin tried to put on Tori tonight.  I see that a lot in this game, this sense that women are tools for men to use as they see fit, politically, sexually, competitively.   The most respected female of recent Challenges, Kaycee, gets a lot of praise from guys for her strength and athletic prowess but I always feel it's within the context of "how can I use that to advance my game?"  I was sorry to see Tori cry, because Devin isn't worthy of her tears.   She's a beautiful young woman, I just can't with her personality sometimes, but even on her worst day she is three times the competitor Devin will ever be.

Josh doing the "my family really needs the money thing" was pathetic.  If he were on Survivor, he'd be reaching for the papaya.  It was delicious to see him lose yet again, especially given his reputed role in Ashley's removal last week.   Is there a karma emoji? 

All in all, this was the best episode of the season so far.  The Challenge was more basic and closer in spirit to challenges of the past.  There were no phony club scenes (watching eight or ten people pretending to party in a sanitized space with no other people isn't cutting it -- give me the days when Bananas is getting into brawls with locals in the stairwell or Aneesa's throwing a drink at Kellyanne's face).  CT got loud.   The Elimination stakes were high.   And best of all, the new and improved Josh went home just like always.

 

[millennium]

I don't think Emy, Emmanuel or Rogan Logan are adding much to the show.    The first two are boring and predictable (and Emy gets on my nerves, to boot).  Logan seems more of an actual player/competitor, but he's still too low key for the Challenge.  Has MTV actually run out of over-the-top reality show twentysomethings?   I'm not suggesting they start recruiting from Floribama Shore, but why are they  going so far outside the established model lately?  I think it's steadily diminishing the quality of the show.   All the new staging (lighted stairs at the Lair -- really?], fog machines, slow-motion photography, glamour shots before Elimination ... it can't compensate for casting underwhelming personalities.   

[Runningwild]

Every time I see Kyle’s teeth, I think of when Ross left the whitener on too long.