S06.E14: Tossing Salads and Spilling Tea (Bags)

[Yours Truly]

I'm very impressed in how Karen handled the situation with Gordon. Imma need Gordon to tone that shit down. Creepy is putting it lightly. I'm also not a fan of how comfortably inappropriate he seems to be when interacting with the other wives. I'm all for some harmless shenanigans and I'll even allow for some "alcohol consumption" freebies but I'm not about continuous inappropriateness when it comes to the way he interacts with the women. Playful banter is one thing....

[spunky]

3 hours ago, drivethroo said:

 

And Chris is going to have to stop barking at her like a child and snatching her up as a child.  This last episode gave me every bit the daddy/daughter that Candiace accuses Mia/G and Michael/Ashley of being.

 

On the after show,  Gizelle, Robyn and Ashley said that Chris standing over Candiace and grabbing her made them feel uncomfortable. Ashley said that while she doesn't like Candiace,  Chris was acting like she was his child and not his wife and she thinks he needs to understand that she's an adult.

[Yours Truly]

26 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

"Families are off-limits" is an oft repeated phrase on camera across all the HW franchises along with its corollary "especially kids" - anytime someone goes too far.

That unwritten but frequently spoken rule is also accompanied by another rule which is "Husbands are off-limits unless and until they get into the women's business." That was true for Denise Richards husband on BH, for Peter on Atlanta, and for PK on BH. One reason I think Karen is still salty at Gizelle is that she broke that unwritten rule with her shirt and her Erica Lyles story. And Ray, who in the earlier seasons tried to be nothing but polite to all the women, is now noticeably catty whenever he gets the opportunity to speak on some HW drama. The true husband shit-talking seems to be limited to 1) husbands who have wronged their wife (Michael/Pot, Tom G./BH, Apollo/Atl.) 2) husbands who have direct beef with another HW (Todd/Phadra/Porsha, Michael/Candiace, Denise's Husband/everybody) and 3) husbands whose wife should be pissed at them but aren't (Robyn, Dorit/BH). 

As crazy as it sounds there are fourth wall understandings the women have. Not just what is done on camera but how far things go. Remember the infamous advice Nene gave Porsha about hands? As much as I dislike Nene I damn near fell out my chair when Porsha tried to read Nene at a reunion by saying "didn't you just XYZ" about some physical altercation allegations and Nene quickly came back with "but did you see me do it on camera?" That shit was really and truly an eyeopener and it finally gelled just how mindful and strategic some of these woman are. Who sits around and reads people at gatherings all day everyday? No one. But on these shows the conflict is obviously a given and that it's gonna happen. Even these woman have moments where the VIEWERS can obvious tell is producer driven but there's still certain mine fields the woman have to take responsibility for either rushing into or avoiding and then managing. The shows gonna be about conflicts and "resolutions" but how far and how low you go is still subjected to real emotional reactions and retaliations.  For the most part the idea is to keep it to shade but Candace thinks she can add a personal spin (I.E. the knuck if you buck persona) and that it's just all gonna be a part of the script with someone yelling cut at a key moment. Nah, boo. You got dragged for that improv last time so maybe take it down a notch before history repeats itself.  Ain't no stunt double gonna step in mid-take. LOL.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Yours Truly

[byrd]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

OK, but then by those rules you can never say or do anything because of the fear that a person would fly off the handle.  You can push the wrong button for some people by just sitting on the bus and looking out the window.  Does that mean you shouldn't get on the bus or you shouldn't look out the window?  I don't think so, but by your logic, you should, because you cannot judge how a person reacts to anything so you should do nothing.  

This is why the onus should be on the person who does the physical attacking, because if you try to deal with the sensitivities of thin skinned people then no one can ever say anything or do anything.  

People who physically attack always have "a reason"  Two women coming to blows over the last candle in the clearance section in Ross have "a reason" why they aren't at fault and the other woman just shouldn't have done or said "x,y and z"  Trying to avoid their reaction by playing into "their reasons" is a fools errand because no matter what, they will make one up to justify their lack of self-control.  

No that's not what I said, I said if you want to talk shit to someone, if you want to insult their family , or something that's offensive, you have to be prepared for what just might be coming your way . Rarely does anyone get popped for non-aggression, unless the person is mentally ill or holding some type of rage, listen what this all boils down to is.. don't insult people you don't know , be careful with those you do know.  I just feels she goes to far and some people can't take it , right or wrong..   

[byrd]

22 hours ago, RealReality said:

And those people will be the same ones who want to beat someone's ass when they don't get an extra ranch dressing with their order or will shoot up a grocery store when they are asked to wear a mask.

I don't think anyone should live their life in fear of what I hope is a relatively small minority.  

You can't compare that to this, Candance goes for the jugular and becomes more aggressive and that's not going to work out well for her. It's not a matter of living in fear, it's just knowing when to shut the hell up and walk away. That's just common sense. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by byrd

[Yours Truly]

17 minutes ago, byrd said:

You can't compare that to this, Candance goes for the jugular and becomes more aggressive and that's not going to work out well for her. It's not a matter of living in fear, it's just knowing when to shut the hell up and walk away. That's just common sense. 

THAT PART!

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, byrd said:

You can't compare that to this, Candance goes for the jugular and becomes more aggressive and that's not going to work out well for her. It's not a matter of living in fear, it's just knowing when to shut the hell up and walk away. That's just common sense. 

But I think you can compare the two, Candace isn't aggressive and she says mean things.  This applies to everyone on the show, Candace just does it better. 

I'm sure the two women fighting over a candle in Ross would each say the other one should have known when to shut the hell up and walk away because it was common sense.  Everyone who gets physically violent has an excuse and how the other person should have known not to do "xy and z" that was going to set them off.  

Women out in the streets fighting in a WalMart in front of their kids have the same excuse.  "you should have known to shut the hell up"

People who get violent always have an excuse as to why its not their fault, and you shouldn't have done this, you shouldn't have looked at them, you shouldn't have disrespected them by taking that last candle, you shouldn't have said this, you shouldn't have looked like that.  Which is why most society has a bright line, because the justifications for violence are subjective.  I'm sure Ike could have told you plenty reasons why Tina had it coming.  

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, byrd said:

No that's not what I said, I said if you want to talk shit to someone, if you want to insult their family , or something that's offensive, you have to be prepared for what just might be coming your way . Rarely does anyone get popped for non-aggression, unless the person is mentally ill or holding some type of rage, listen what this all boils down to is.. don't insult people you don't know , be careful with those you do know.  I just feels she goes to far and some people can't take it , right or wrong..   

"Offensive" is highly subjective, so it can be anything.  So if you're looking not to say something "offensive" because you're gonna get a beating you cannot say anything, particularly on this platform where these women say all sorts of mean things to each other.  

What all this boils down to is don't physically attack people because they use words you don't like.  If you're so mad that you want to physically attack, then walk away.  If you cannot use your words, walk away.  That responsibility is on the person who physically attacks, not the person using their words. 

These are society's rules for a very good reason.  Because "offensive" "mean" and "insulting" are very subjective terms, particularly where people are apparently moved to violence by jokes.  

When you set up a society where people can claim that their violence is justified because the other person was a super meanie, or was offensive and insulting, then you have a dangerous precedent. 

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

So physical aggression is okay it's only physical contact that's wrong?

That's an odd measuring stick but okay, I guess. 

I don't consider lettuce throwing physically aggressive either.  So, I'm not sure whose measuring stick you're referencing, but it isn't mine.  

[Rlb8031]

30 minutes ago, RealReality said:

"Offensive" is highly subjective, so it can be anything.  So if you're looking not to say something "offensive" because you're gonna get a beating you cannot say anything, particularly on this platform where these women say all sorts of mean things to each other.

I don't understand why this has to be so black and white. There clearly are women on both this show and across all the HW franchises who have figured out how to be shady/state an opinion/mix it up for tv/read/etc. and not have it result in a physical altercation. Its not that Candace can't say anything. Its that her default is 0 to 100 and she needs to dial it back to 45 or 50. That concept shouldn't be that hard for her to understand. No one is expecting silent monk-like behavior because that would make for a boring show. But she can stand up for herself without being insultingly extra, physically aggressive and non-verbally inciting. 

You keep characterizing Candace's words as jokes and as proof of her wit. But she's never laughing, or trying to impress an audience. She's trying to hurt and harm. And again its her lack of understanding that not everyone thinks like her or will react like her or will "fight" like her that will be her ultimate downfall. Because when this show is over, Candace is going to have to exist in a world where these carefully proscribed roles are not as clear. She might just run into some shades of grey people who aren't going to differentiate between her "poppin' off' persona and who you're describing her to be IRL.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Rlb8031

[Yours Truly]

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

I don't consider lettuce throwing physically aggressive either.  So, I'm not sure whose measuring stick you're referencing, but it isn't mine.  

As I recall there was more than just lettuce throwing referenced. 🤔

[Yours Truly]

7 hours ago, RealReality said:

 

I don't count lettuce throwing and wine throwing as physical attacks, the same way I don't consider the affair of the butter knife a physical attack.  And flipping a table, as abhorrent as it is, is not the same as physically attacking another castmember.  

  

 

Refresher. 

[Iguessnot]

6 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

"Families are off-limits" is an oft repeated phrase on camera across all the HW franchises along with its corollary "especially kids" - anytime someone goes too far.

That unwritten but frequently spoken rule is also accompanied by another rule which is "Husbands are off-limits unless and until they get into the women's business." That was true for Denise Richards husband on BH, for Peter on Atlanta, and for PK on BH. One reason I think Karen is still salty at Gizelle is that she broke that unwritten rule with her shirt and her Erica Lyles story. And Ray, who in the earlier seasons tried to be nothing but polite to all the women, is now noticeably catty whenever he gets the opportunity to speak on some HW drama. The true husband shit-talking seems to be limited to 1) husbands who have wronged their wife (Michael/Pot, Tom G./BH, Apollo/Atl.) 2) husbands who have direct beef with another HW (Todd/Phadra/Porsha, Michael/Candiace, Denise's Husband/everybody) and 3) husbands whose wife should be pissed at them but aren't (Robyn, Dorit/BH). 

I noted that Candiace has a laser set on G. Unlike Michael Darby, Candiace has no history with G, so it is disturbing to see her tossing pimp bombs at him. He is completely unbothered by her taunts, so she persists.

I seem to recall her daring Darby to touch her at Robyn's party. What kind of lunacy is that?

[drivethroo]

4 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

But she can stand up for herself without being insultingly extra, physically aggressive and non-verbally inciting. 

 

We saw from season 5 that no, actually Candiace CAN'T do that because whenever she does do that, she gets her ass beat anyway.  Even when she keeps her mouth shut and mind her business, people come for her anyway.

I was watching a YouTube review of this show and the YouTube said the real reason Robyn & Gizelle hustled on down to the Eastern Shore was because they realized the show was going on without them with the Candiace vs. Mia drama and if the show could air and have great ratings without Robyn & Gizelle being on the episode then Robyn & Gizelle are not needed on the cast.

They said the same thing about Ashley starting the table fight: if Mia vs. Candiace became the new feud of the show, then Ashley's presence is not really needed.  Without feuding with Candiace, what is Ashley's storyline? Changing diapers? Droopy uteruses?  Ashley HAD to start that fight to prove her value to the producers.

That's why I say Candiace should be fired from the show so the cast members who have been coasting and hiding behind Candiace would have to stand in their bullshit and proving their worth to the show.  If Candiace got cut, 1 or more of the OGs would be following her out the door the next season.

The YouTuber says Candiace needs to start thinking smart and stop interacting with Ashley and giving her any moments and TV time. 

I actually DON'T think Candiace should be cut but if she were (and she probably won't be) it would shake up the cast dynamics and force half of the cast to stop coasting for their coins.

Edited October 14, 2021 by drivethroo

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I don't understand why this has to be so black and white. There clearly are women on both this show and across all the HW franchises who have figured out how to be shady/state an opinion/mix it up for tv/read/etc. and not have it result in a physical altercation. Its not that Candace can't say anything. Its that her default is 0 to 100 and she needs to dial it back to 45 or 50. That concept shouldn't be that hard for her to understand. No one is expecting silent monk-like behavior because that would make for a boring show. But she can stand up for herself without being insultingly extra, physically aggressive and non-verbally inciting. 

You keep characterizing Candace's words as jokes and as proof of her wit. But she's never laughing, or trying to impress an audience. She's trying to hurt and harm. And again its her lack of understanding that not everyone thinks like her or will react like her or will "fight" like her that will be her ultimate downfall. Because when this show is over, Candace is going to have to exist in a world where these carefully proscribed roles are not as clear. She might just run into some shades of grey people who aren't going to differentiate between her "poppin' off' persona and who you're describing her to be IRL.

I dont agree with the "proof is in the pudding" argument.  Just because a beating hasn't happened to anyone else doesn't mean that what they have said or their behavior is any better.  

But saying that candaxe goes from 0-100 is something I also disagree with.  She quite often is calm and collected. 

If you look at the situation with mia, in the bedroom she wasn't at 100. She was calmly explaining to Mia why she was upset and made some lightly shady comments.  And Mia ratcheted it up with her fake phone call and loudly calling everyone a broke bitch. 

At gizelles event she didn't automatically go to 100.  She was fairly calm and collected and Mia kept going at it.  

So while candace cuts deeper she isn't going from 0-100.  

Not sure what insulting extra means but I don't think that what candace has said is so out of pocket when compared to the other women.  

"Insultingly extra" would, to me, be the uncle Ben shirt gizelle wore 

I dont characterize everything candace says as a joke, but her "yo momma" comment was such a clear and obvious take on a 'yo momma joke.  It was very clearly not specifically about mias mother, as she had never met nor knew anything about mias mother when she made the comment and 'yo momma jokes are fairly well known.  

So a comment based on a joke genre is juvenile but not grounds for pearl clutching, vapors, smelling salts and fainting couches.  

And it certainly shouldn't be when compared to Ashley talking about the dried up penis of karens husband.....a man who she HAS met and showed her nothing but kindness.  

[Sheenieb]

I like how Robyn only showed up so she wouldn't get fined.

4 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I don't understand why this has to be so black and white. There clearly are women on both this show and across all the HW franchises who have figured out how to be shady/state an opinion/mix it up for tv/read/etc. and not have it result in a physical altercation. Its not that Candace can't say anything. Its that her default is 0 to 100 and she needs to dial it back to 45 or 50.

I agree with this. I'm sure that everyone who watches a HW show expects shade and reads, but I don't like meanness for the sake of it. As much as I rag on Gizelle, I will say that she and Karen master what most viewers expect from these shows in terms of conflict. The closest Gizelle came to being mean for the sake of it is wearing the "Free Uncle Ben" shirt. But Karen gives it to her good as well. Those two have a Dynasty-lite kind of adversarial chemistry that I can appreciate.

Candiace goes too far when the dig doesn't warrant it. I didn't expect her to let the low-budget video comment go, but carrying on to the point where she's throwing lettuce and calling G a pimp when he was just trying to be drunk in peace was too much. Then she stays trying to sell wolf tickets when we all know she isn't about that life (and that's OK! Neither am I).

I really hope those Eddie cheating rumors aren't true because he's my favorite husband. I liked his banter with Wendy during the Ashley/Candiace fight. "I just wish I had a meal." Askale's husband seems cool, too.

[RealReality]

8 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

"Families are off-limits" is an oft repeated phrase on camera across all the HW franchises along with its corollary "especially kids" - anytime someone goes too far.

That unwritten but frequently spoken rule is also accompanied by another rule which is "Husbands are off-limits unless and until they get into the women's business." 

Okay, so then where was the outrage when Ashley shit talked Ray or said that Ray needed to be careful about dropping the soap in prison (a clear prison rape reference).  Ray has never involved himself in the women's drama and has been nothing but the soul of kindness and courtesy to Ashley.  

Jamal, for as much of a toad as he is and was, was shit talked on the show and never was involved in the women's business.  I don't think he ever filmed a scene with the other women. 

Ashley came for Juan's fidelity and finances, despite the fact that he almost fastidiously keeps himself out of the women's business.

Gizelle came for Eddie's fidelity, and the overwhelming chorus was "well, yeah, its not on the show, but its on a blog so what do you expect."  Even though Eddie has never been involved in the women's business. 

Gizelle came for Ray, who has never been anything other than nice to her with that Uncle Ben shirt.  Even he seemed a little taken aback at the reunion, as he said "I thought Gizelle and I were cool"

Gizelle came for Moniques baby, by putting the rumor out there that Monique had cheated with her trainer and that the baby was the trainer's.  I cannot remember if Gizelle got the second part out, but that was clearly the context even if she didn't say it directly.

So, it doesn't seem like "family is off limits" really applies on this franchise.  It really seems like the rule only applies to Candace.  

And frankly, what Candace said, which was a take on a 'yo momma joke was said without knowing the woman in question, so it wasn't like she knew that Mia's mother had a complicated history of drug use and abuse and then made a comment about her being low budget, she simply took the comment Mia made about her shoot being low budget, added a generic "yo momma" to it and made the comment.  

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

Refresher. 

I'm refreshed, and I see that I used to the word abhorrent to describe table flipping, which hardly seems like an endorsement or even me saying that table flipping is "okay."

Further, I'd say that since I included lettuce throwing and waving around a butter knife, if you wanted to make a statement about what I feel is physically aggressive, it would make more sense to include all three.

But, thanks anyways!  

Edited October 14, 2021 by RealReality

[Axie]

Someone should have thrown an entire chef salad at Robyn for continuously mentioning she had her period.

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I don't understand why this has to be so black and white. There clearly are women on both this show and across all the HW franchises who have figured out how to be shady/state an opinion/mix it up for tv/read/etc. and not have it result in a physical altercation. Its not that Candace can't say anything. Its that her default is 0 to 100 and she needs to dial it back to 45 or 50. That concept shouldn't be that hard for her to understand. No one is expecting silent monk-like behavior because that would make for a boring show. But she can stand up for herself without being insultingly extra, physically aggressive and non-verbally inciting. 

 

Every time she says something other than being extremely nice, she is called aggressive, extra, insulting and is accused of saying something worthy of a beating.  

Anytime she stands up for herself.  Can you think of a time, this season, where she has clapped back and the chorus hasn't been "she did too much!" "she is asking for a beating!"  I mean, MAYBE when she said Mia was handsome and had large hands and feet, but I'm pretty sure she said that in her confessional and not in response to anything Mia said (except in the most recent episode, where, AGAIN she was accused of saying too much). 

Anytime Candiace says anything in her defense, its almost immediately labelled as drag worthy, uncalled for, unhinged, volatile, etc, etc.  

I think all of these women are generally doing the same thing on the show, I don't think Candiace is particularly better or worse than most.  And perhaps maybe slightly better because she is often responding to someone else, and as someone else so sagely put it, you can't light a match and control how high the flames go.  If someone is coming at Candace, then I don't think she is under any obligation to extend them kindness and consideration. 

She perhaps should do that because she wants a career outside of this show, and out of all the HW on the show, she has the best shot at it.  But far bigger people have been cancelled for less.  

But physically attacking someone for words will always be a bright line for me, thats not what this show is about and I think that if the franchise wants to go that way you need to do like Bad Girls Club and cast women who are physical equals so that they all have the same ability to fight, and therefore, feel the same freedom to talk.  

[Hiyo]

Quote

If Candiace got cut, 1 or more of the OGs would be following her out the door the next season.

There is no way of knowing that for sure. At this point if any of the OG's got released, it would probably be done more as a cost cutting measure than anything related to Candyass.

[byrd]

14 hours ago, RealReality said:

"Offensive" is highly subjective, so it can be anything.  So if you're looking not to say something "offensive" because you're gonna get a beating you cannot say anything, particularly on this platform where these women say all sorts of mean things to each other.  

What all this boils down to is don't physically attack people because they use words you don't like.  If you're so mad that you want to physically attack, then walk away.  If you cannot use your words, walk away.  That responsibility is on the person who physically attacks, not the person using their words. 

These are society's rules for a very good reason.  Because "offensive" "mean" and "insulting" are very subjective terms, particularly where people are apparently moved to violence by jokes.  

When you set up a society where people can claim that their violence is justified because the other person was a super meanie, or was offensive and insulting, then you have a dangerous precedent. 

Yes but when you reference some one's mother it's not a joke when used in a demeaning manner, this was just no run of the mill momma joke , this was meant to teardown and hurt .. this is why I say they are fighting words for some people used in this context.  It is what it is, Keep the fight with Mia only, call Mia low budget since she's so obsessed with her stripper past , no need to bring her mother into it. 

[byrd]

10 hours ago, Axie said:

Someone should have thrown an entire chef salad at Robyn for continuously mentioning she had her period.

for real for real !

[Rlb8031]

9 hours ago, drivethroo said:

We saw from season 5 that no, actually Candiace CAN'T do that because whenever she does do that, she gets her ass beat anyway.  Even when she keeps her mouth shut and mind her business, people come for her anyway.

This seems like an exaggeration. It sounds like Candiace is getting beat down on a regular in the playground rather than the one incident from last year.

8 hours ago, RealReality said:

Okay, so then where was the outrage when Ashley shit talked Ray or said that Ray needed to be careful about dropping the soap in prison (a clear prison rape reference).  Ray has never involved himself in the women's drama and has been nothing but the soul of kindness and courtesy to Ashley.  

Jamal, for as much of a toad as he is and was, was shit talked on the show and never was involved in the women's business.  I don't think he ever filmed a scene with the other women. 

Ashley came for Juan's fidelity and finances, despite the fact that he almost fastidiously keeps himself out of the women's business.

Gizelle came for Eddie's fidelity, and the overwhelming chorus was "well, yeah, its not on the show, but its on a blog so what do you expect."  Even though Eddie has never been involved in the women's business. 

Gizelle came for Ray, who has never been anything other than nice to her with that Uncle Ben shirt.  Even he seemed a little taken aback at the reunion, as he said "I thought Gizelle and I were cool"

Gizelle came for Moniques baby, by putting the rumor out there that Monique had cheated with her trainer and that the baby was the trainer's.  I cannot remember if Gizelle got the second part out, but that was clearly the context even if she didn't say it directly.

So, it doesn't seem like "family is off limits" really applies on this franchise.  It really seems like the rule only applies to Candace.  

And frankly, what Candace said, which was a take on a 'yo momma joke was said without knowing the woman in question, so it wasn't like she knew that Mia's mother had a complicated history of drug use and abuse and then made a comment about her being low budget, she simply took the comment Mia made about her shoot being low budget, added a generic "yo momma" to it and made the comment.  

So this all fits with what I think this rule requires. Juan and Jamal got dragged because of their transgressions against their wives (an acceptable exception). Eddie, Ray and Monique's baby were all considered out of bounds which is why Wendy, Karen and Monique all struck back either in season, at the reunion or both. Wendy, Karen and Monique were all given varying levels of a pass by the non-involved cast members because of the rule. Monique was however shaded because the bulk of the story around the trainer and the baby never was aired (even though Gizelle tried to breadcrumb that particular piece of gossip all season long). 

[drivethroo]

3 hours ago, Hiyo said:

There is no way of knowing that for sure. At this point if any of the OG's got released, it would probably be done more as a cost cutting measure than anything related to Candyass.

If Candiace is gone, RAG is going to have to work instead of hiding behind "Candiace is a shitty person."  They've been able to coast behind "Candiace is a shitty person" since Season  4.

Karen will be fine because she's silly and her storylines are independent of RAG and Candiace.

Candiace and Wendy have actually been driving the storylines this season and for the past several episodes in particular.  Outside of the "Reasonably Shady" episode and the Williamsburg episodes, you could edit RAG out of the episodes and the story.  And half of the "Reasonably Shady" episode was Mia vs. Candiace, Wendy and Askale.

Nobody's tuning in to watch Robyn sleep.

Nobody's tuning in to watch Gizelle teach Grace how to drive.

Nobody's tuning in to watch Michael watch Ashley change diapers.

The Eastern Shore episodes didn't even need GEB which is why Ashley told them to get down there.  Ashley only justified her camera time by starting a fight with Candiace & Chris.  If Candiace hadn't taken the bait, Ashley wouldn't have been needed on this episode either.

In fact, if Candiace and Chris decide to ignore Ashley & Michael from now on and Candiace just decides to feud with Mia, then Ashley really serves no purpose.  She's not going to fight with GEB or Karen and deciding to attack Wendy or Askale will just bring up the colorism again.

Candiace & Wendy have been carrying this season, not RAG.  If the episodes move seamlessly along without you in most of them, then why are you there?

If Candiace is cut from the cast (I doubt she will be because see above sentence), her salary is freed up to bring somebody else to the cast.  The perfect person to bring back (even as a friend) is Charrisse.  Bringing Charrisse back in some capacity would actually bust up the GEB dominance on the show because Robyn is more loyal to Charrisse than she is to Gizelle.

So I do think cutting Candiace would shake up the cast and would lead to one or more of the current OGs not being around for season 8.  We know Karen ain't going nowhere, Gizelle ain't going nowhere so that leaves Ashley or Robyn.  Robyn ain't going nowhere because she's attached to Gizelle; Gizelle is the reason Robyn is on the show because the producers did not want Robyn on the cast from the beginning.  If Mia takes Ashley's place in feuding with Candiace, what's the point of Ashley?

They could bring Monique back but feuding with the GEB would be the only point since Monique was a pretty boring character outside of the feud with Candiace.  What was her storyline? Potty training the bird? And now the bird is dead?  Although bringing Monique back would put the RAG alliance in a pickle as Ashley would have to choose between GEB, Monique and saving Michael's hide.

[drivethroo]

19 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Juan and Jamal got dragged because of their transgressions against their wives (an acceptable exception).

What was Juan's transgression against Robyn? Because at this point, the rumors on Juan are equivalent to the rumors on Eddie, "we heard but we have no proof."

21 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Eddie, Ray and Monique's baby were all considered out of bounds which is why Wendy, Karen and Monique all struck back either in season, at the reunion or both.

Ray has always caught the bullets for Karen; yet where are the calls to beat Ashley's ass for saying he had a dried up old penis?

22 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Wendy, Karen and Monique were all given varying levels of a pass by the non-involved cast members because of the rule.

What is this rule and is it just applied to some? Because Sherman took a hit and had his transgressions against Kyndall brought to the show by Monique and Charrisse to shade Gizelle and what Sherman did happened way before he met Gizelle and had nothing to do with Gizelle.

Where is this rule and why isn't it applied to Michael, if husbands are off limits?

If Juan can get it, Sherman/Jamal can get it, Ray can get it, Chris B can get it, Michael can get it, G can get it then Eddie can get it too.  If Wendy don't like it, Wendy can leave the show.

[eXiled]

12 hours ago, drivethroo said:

I was watching a YouTube review of this show and the YouTube said the real reason Robyn & Gizelle hustled on down to the Eastern Shore was because they realized the show was going on without them with the Candiace vs. Mia drama and if the show could air and have great ratings without Robyn & Gizelle being on the episode then Robyn & Gizelle are not needed on the cast.

They said the same thing about Ashley starting the table fight: if Mia vs. Candiace became the new feud of the show, then Ashley's presence is not really needed.  Without feuding with Candiace, what is Ashley's storyline? Changing diapers? Droopy uteruses?  Ashley HAD to start that fight to prove her value to the producers.

The show is lacking, for me at least, precisely for this reason. Watching The Candiace Show has become tiresome, and I wish the other ladies had actual storylines worth a damn.

Instead of fighting and worrying about who can keep a man, I'd be interested in learning if Gizelle is trying to get her biz up and running again. Likewise more scenes about Robyn's hat line and Karen's various ventures. And I'd love for Dr. Wendy to use some of that education to develop a business plan to sell her home decor line.

Mia pretending to run her husband's biz and Ashley pulling out her titties just ain't it.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, byrd said:

Yes but when you reference some one's mother it's not a joke when used in a demeaning manner, this was just no run of the mill momma joke , this was meant to teardown and hurt .. this is why I say they are fighting words for some people used in this context.  It is what it is, Keep the fight with Mia only, call Mia low budget since she's so obsessed with her stripper past , no need to bring her mother into it. 

It was a take on a yo momma joke.  Candace took what Mia said, simply put a yo momma before it and made the comment. 

She did not know mias mother so it wasn't an insult specific to her mother.  

However, Mia likely knew about the strained relationship between candace and her mother from watching  past seasons of the show and knowingly used candaces mother as a tool to hurt her and tear her down.  

So, at worst, both Mia and candace used the others mother to hurt the other.  

However, in candace's case it was a simple takw on a yo momma joke that, since she didn't know mias mother, she likely didn't have the deep intent people are ascribing to it.  

While Mia did. 

[RealReality]

54 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

This seems like an exaggeration. It sounds like Candiace is getting beat down on a regular in the playground rather than the one incident from last year.

So this all fits with what I think this rule requires. Juan and Jamal got dragged because of their transgressions against their wives (an acceptable exception). Eddie, Ray and Monique's baby were all considered out of bounds which is why Wendy, Karen and Monique all struck back either in season, at the reunion or both. Wendy, Karen and Monique were all given varying levels of a pass by the non-involved cast members because of the rule. Monique was however shaded because the bulk of the story around the trainer and the baby never was aired (even though Gizelle tried to breadcrumb that particular piece of gossip all season long). 

So then there are exceptions for people who have committed transgressions against cast members? 

Like, say a mom, who, by mias own account treated her poorly and continues to do so?  Or is this "exception" only applicable to husbands? 

And the point still stands that there was not the level of outrage for comments levied against Eddie, Ray and about moniques baby and calls for a dragging as there has been when candace made an offhand comment that was a take on a yo momma joke.  

[Hiyo]

Quote

If Candiace is gone, RAG is going to have to work instead of hiding behind "Candiace is a shitty person."  They've been able to coast behind "Candiace is a shitty person" since Season  4.

And they were doing fine in seasons 1 to 3. Again, no correlation between Candyass leaving and one of them having to leave as well.

[drivethroo]

43 minutes ago, eXiled said:

The show is lacking, for me at least, precisely for this reason. Watching The Candiace Show has become tiresome, and I wish the other ladies had actual storylines worth a damn.

They don't.  They hide behind "Candiace is a shitty person".  So while you're paying attention to Candiace over here, you're not paying attention to how RAG has no interesting storylines over there.

Candiace has a storyline without RAG.  RAG don't have a storyline without Candiace. 

Candiace, Mia and Karen actually had storylines that were independent of the other cast members.  RAG + Wendy did not.  Upon thought, Wendy's only real relevance this season is coming for GEB.

35 minutes ago, RealReality said:

And the point still stands that there was not the level of outrage for comments levied against Eddie, Ray and about moniques baby and calls for a dragging as there has been when candace made an offhand comment that was a take on a yo momma joke.  

I think if the Yo Momma joke had come from Ashley or Gizelle, there would not be this uproar.

That's because every woman on the cast has children EXCEPT Candiace.  Motherhood is sacred. Candiace will never understand the sacredness of motherhood, because she is not a mother.

Motherhood and marriage are "sacred" and not to be spoken ill of by those who don't have it. Motherhood and love of mothers is the shield to cloak our sins and hide our bullshit (Ashley, Gizelle*, Mia).

Just like I think if Karen (or even Candiace) had asked Wendy about the Eddie rumors and body changes, it would've been received differently because Karen is in a stable marriage.  Ashley is in a joke of a marriage and Robyn & Gizelle aren't married at all.

*Gizelle is using Grace & the Twins the same way Ashley is using Dylan and Dean.

 

[Yours Truly]

13 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

I like how Robyn only showed up so she wouldn't get fined.

I agree with this. I'm sure that everyone who watches a HW show expects shade and reads, but I don't like meanness for the sake of it. As much as I rag on Gizelle, I will say that she and Karen master what most viewers expect from these shows in terms of conflict. The closest Gizelle came to being mean for the sake of it is wearing the "Free Uncle Ben" shirt. But Karen gives it to her good as well. Those two have a Dynasty-lite kind of adversarial chemistry that I can appreciate.

Candiace goes too far when the dig doesn't warrant it. I didn't expect her to let the low-budget video comment go, but carrying on to the point where she's throwing lettuce and calling G a pimp when he was just trying to be drunk in peace was too much. Then she stays trying to sell wolf tickets when we all know she isn't about that life (and that's OK! Neither am I).

I really hope those Eddie cheating rumors aren't true because he's my favorite husband. I liked his banter with Wendy during the Ashley/Candiace fight. "I just wish I had a meal." Askale's husband seems cool, too.

Nooooo, not selling wolf tickets.... LOLOLOL!

Her references to wanting "smoke" and "finishing it" speaks volumes.

It's like she's advocating for more than just a shade fest which is what I find completely unacceptable. Not to mention how wack she looks since we all know she can't deliver. "Under the radar" physical threats with nothing to back it up. Like, then why are you even taking that route anyway. It's the posing that really irkes me.  A fraud that's still flexing and doesn't know when to quit.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Yours Truly

[drivethroo]

2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

And they were doing fine in seasons 1 to 3. Again, no correlation between Candyass leaving and one of them having to leave as well.

Let's review the storylines of this show:

Season 1 storylines:

• Robyn lost her house
• Karen & Charrisse vs. Gizelle
• Ashley vs. Robyn
• Charrisse hiding her failed marriage
• Katie begging Andrew to marry her
• Katie vs. GEB because they looked whiter than her
• Robyn & Juan: will they or won't they
• Michael grabbing Andrew & the cameraman's butt

Season 2 (exit Katie, enter Monique)

• Ashley vs. Charrisse
• Charissse vs. Gizelle
• Gizelle vs. Monique
• Robyn vs. Ashley re: Juan
• Ashley vs. Michael re: the restaurant
• Charrisse's champagne room & hiding that Eddie filed for divorce
• Robyn drives to Virginia to get up in Ashley's face about Juan
• Michael won't let Ashley have international on her phone & fires her from the restaurant while she's on the cast trip
• Monique moves to Potomac
• Karen moves to Great Falls to be "closer to her parents"

Season 3 (enter Candiace)

• Michael throws Ashley out of the house
• Michael vs. Ashley re: Sheila & her bum
• Michael vs. Ashley re: having a baby
• GEB vs. Karen re: Ray's taxes
• Robyn vs. Monique re: social media
• Robyn vs. Ashley re: Juan
• Ashley vs. Monique re: drunk driving miscarriage rumors
• Candiace plans her wedding
• Robyn walks up on Monique on the streets
• The "Blue Eyes" rumors start
• Robyn & Ashley make up
• Gizelle dates Sherman
• Monique & Charrisse bring Kyndall around to get under Gizelle's skin & to spread Sherman's business to embarass him away from Gizelle
• Monique tosses Charrisse under the bus re: Sherman/Kyndall/Gizelle
• Michael & Ashley question Karen's finances
• Michael asks Ray how he can afford "all this" and Ray looked at him like WTF
• The Pizza Boy incident & the Dried Up Penis remark might have been on this season

Season 4 (exit Charrisse)

• Candiace gets married
• Sherman dumps Gizelle
• Candiace & Robyn hear Michael say he wants to suck Juan's dick
• Monique gets pregnant again
• Ashley & Karen make up
• Ashley & Monique make up
• Ashley & Karen fall apart again because Michael was grabbing butts again (cameraman at Monique's house incident)
• Candiace vs. Ashley (f. butter knife incident)
• Candiace vs. Ashley (motherhood journey)
• Candiace vs. Dorothy
• Candiace vs. Monique (Drag Me incident at Katie's farm)
• Ashley vs. Katie (who left the cast trip)
• Ashley's Dad's Door vs. Ashley
• Karen vs. Gizelle
• Gizelle vs. Monique at Robyn's open house
• Robyn & Juan: will they or won't they

Season 5 (enter Wendy)

• Ashley has her baby
• GEB & Monique band together against Candiace
• Monique vs. Candiace
• Gizelle gets back with Jamal
• Candiace tells Ashley about Michael cheating at the MGM
• Wendy has 4 degrees
• The Fight
• GEB + Wendy vs. Karen re: Candiace & Monique
• Ashley mad at Michael for cheating
• GEB + Wendy band together against Monique
• Ashley vs. Candiace re: police statement
• Monique & her binder

Season 6 (exit Monique, enter Mia)

• Ashley has her baby
• Candiace's new house, music career & going to school
• Candiace vs. Chris
• Wendy got new boobs and booty
• Wendy vs. GEB
• Ashley vs. Candiace
• Gizelle teaches Grace how to drive
• Gizelle's house is under construction
• Robyn sleeps all day and is behind in fulfulling her orders
• Wendy works on a candle
• Karen works on a candle
• Karen plans her vow renewals
• Karen is ambassador to Surry County
• Mia vs. Candiace

Since Season 4, Ashley's only purpose is to stir up trouble, mainly with Candiace.  The only way Ashley got screen time this season is conspiring to stir up mess with Gizelle* and stirring up mess with Wendy & Candiace.  If Candiace isn't there anymore, Ashley will either have to attack Wendy or Mia or turn on the GEB.  Ashley will actually have to do something other than what's she's doing.

Robyn hasn't been in any independent drama since Season 3.  Her drama with Wendy is beef by association.  If Candiace is gone, the spotlight then shines on the rest of the cast is or is not doing. 

To be honest, Gizelle hasn't really had a storyline on this show ever except to stir up mess with Karen.  However Gizelle's purpose is to stir up mess and sit back and watch the show.

GEB was absent from the first Eastern Shore episode and they were not missed.  Not one of the cast members there except Ashley said "Hey I wonder what GEB is doing."

Karen's storylines are pretty much independent of what the other cast members are doing. She shades Wendy about one wick vs. three wick but Karen has been working on three wick since Season 2 before there was a Wendy.

If Candiace is out of the equation, Mia can always feud with Wendy since Wendy swiped at her for no reason.  Gizelle ain't going nowhere.  But Robyn & Ashley would need to step it up and since Gizelle is why Robyn in on the show in the first place....

*You generally don't see Gizelle and Robyn conspiring against a cast member but you DO see Gizelle and Ashley conspiring...

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by drivethroo

[Countess]

I think the biggest problem is saying that Candiace deserves a beat down because of the things that come out of her mouth and that's not only absurd but it reflects poorly on the person doing the beating more than it does the person doing the talking. That's why Mo ended up being the villain in that situation because not only did she serve Candiace a beat down, she lied about it and acted like she deserved it even after people told her that it was wrong. These people included her husband, pastor and "friends" on the show that then didn't want to be associated with her. You can certainly take things too far when someone tests your patience with their words but most people won't want to deal with you in the aftermath and that's their prerogative. Basically everyone on this show has said some sideways shit about someone else but no one to my recollection has had it expressed so many times that they deserve a beat down, and therein lies the problem. The RHONY women are all vicious and rude in their own ways, they've all said some crazy shit at one time or another and none more than Ramona but I don't ever recall reading she deserves her ass beat. There is something about Candiace that invokes a reaction of people thinking she deserves physical violence and that's not really normal.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Let's review the storylines of this show:

Yeah, still not seeing the link. Mileage varies and all that I guess.

[RealReality]

@drivethroo wow, you have like a photographic memory!  Good on you, I can barely remember where I put my car keys.  

Every season up until the current one I've enjoyed Gizelle.  She is funny, and she can kinda make something out of nothing.  I still remember her livening up Monique's (kinda boring) lakehouse trip by having a pageant off, which was fun.  She doesn't have a storyline and I'm not entirely sure she needs one.  She and Karen remind me of Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn in Death Becomes Her.  And as much as I roll my eyes at Karen, I've enjoyed her this season even though I think her insistence that Gizelle wished Ray dead was ridiculous.  But she has managed to make this dumb candle line drama fairly amusing.  

 

I agree with your hypothetical about Ashley.  I think she would dig into Wendy or Mia.  But maybe she goes at Karen....starts her own candle line?  Karen can be easy pickings for someone like Ashley, but I think someone like Mia would be even easier.  And it would be interesting to see the battle of the proxies....the "but I'm a mom" versus "but I had a bad childhood".  Wendy would be too quick for Ashley, but I'm sure Ashley could use her standard dog whistles.  

[Rlb8031]

16 hours ago, drivethroo said:

That's the problem with the "Candiace should keep her mouth shut because she don't know if somebody will beat her ass for what she say."  We're acting like Candiace is going down to the Safeway cussing people out when we know 99% of the time she is responding to someone else.  If nobody is saying anything to her, why would she say anything to them?

"But where I'm from, in the hood" ---Candiace isn't going to where you're from or the hood.  There's no need for her to go to the hood because she's not from the hood.  But if she went there, why would there be an altercation? People are acting like Candiace is going down to the hood and purposely start some mess with the lady with the lambchop eyelashes, massive tattooes and bonnets.  She's not (unless Lambchop starts with her first and why would Lambchop do that?)

Just as Candiace shouldn't provoke people, people shouldn't provoke her and from what I see a lot of people are getting off on provoking her but clutching their pearls and retiring to the fainting couch when she has some bars for them (just as they accuse her of doing).

My only issue with any of this, is that Candiace may end up in a room at BravoCon or at some other event with some regular random person who feels its okay to say something about her mom, her relationship, her career, or something else. This concept that only hood/street (and dare I say - poor, black people ("the lady with the lambchop eyelashes, massive tattoos and bonnets")) are a risk for Candiace seems like some really deep classist assumptions. The first that the only people who could possibly provoke Candiace are these wretches she would never be near, and the second, that Candiace would never engage in the behavior we see on camera regularly IRL. I think both of those things are a stretch. Candiace exists in the same world as the rest of us. She eats in restaurants, goes to the supermarket, walks through airports, attends events for work and goes to public functions where she never knows who she might come across. People in this country with any kind of "celebrity" all talk about how random people feel its okay to speak on them and their circumstances, so why is wealthy, genteel Candiace going to be any different? People know what you show, so if what you show is "having bars", isn't it reasonable to expect that folks are going to approach you with that energy?

Edited October 15, 2021 by Rlb8031

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I'm a little confused about how this discussion became about Robyn/Gizelle vs. Candiace, since Robyn and Gizelle don't really seem to have a conflict with Candiace and as far as I know, aren't agitating to get rid of her. 

My feeling is that unlike with the situation with Candiace and Monique, where I thought Monique was unequivocally in the wrong, and that Candiace's very minor sins were nothing compared to Monique's actions, in this situation both Mia and Candiace have contributed to this situation.  And certainly Ashley was the one who started the argument at Foxy's - Candiace escalated the argument but Ashley was definitely stirring the pot. 

Nevertheless, however Candiace escalates thing verbally (and she does, and at some point, that is going to harm the relationships she has), this does not retroactively prove that Monique's actions were justified. Monique assaulted Candiace and refused to acknowledge the seriousness of her actions. Ultimately, that had little to do with Candiace and more to do with Monique's own psychology. 

[Sweetleigh]

The problem for me is this:

Mia was doing a fabulous job of making me really dislike her:  Acting like a boss bitch, always bringing up and bragging about money, using her mother’s troubled past as a story line...and don’t even get me started with G.  Everything she does seems forced, faked, and a thirsty attempt to make the viewer think she has money and class, and it is sooooo unbelievable. 
 

But...in walks Candiace, and somehow I ended the episode on Team Mia.  How does that shit even happen?  Candiace is her own worst enemy.  

[JoSafe]

On 10/10/2021 at 8:41 PM, truthaboutluv said:

I see Chris' crush on Gizelle continues. Meanwhile, Karen continues to make this show for me - from her reaction to G's creepy perv tongue mess, to not understanding sexual euphemisms like tossing salad and her general running commentary, I live for the Grand Dame. 

I know Gizelle isn't all offended about her lack of bathroom when she implicitly stated to Wendy at her Shady party that she had every intention of not letting her and Karen use her bathroom. 

As for Candiace - honestly, I'm over it. I'm starting to think Candiace is either on something, just plain delusionally batshit crazy or needs anger management. No one is denying that Mia was shady at Candiace's video shoot. But let's face it, being shady is what keeps ALL these housewives shows going. They're ALL guilty of being shady in some way or another. 

The problem is that Candiace goes into angry screaming and yelling mode in a second. It's like a switch just goes off in her head. And I want it to be noted that she confirmed multiple times, she threw the food first. I don't care that it was two small pieces or one. She struck first on that one. Then she insists that Mia was breaking things, yet she's the one that slammed her hand across the counter multiple times, sending shit flying both times. 

And sorry but I don't buy for a second that Candiace had no clue about Mia's mother. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing when she went there. And that fake, "oh if I knew, I'd have just talked about her big hands and feet" was more bullshit. Because the fact is, as someone noted in last week's thread, Candiace kept getting angrier and digging lower and lower the more Mia was NOT reacting to her. So when the "pimp, hoe, etc." didn't phase Mia, she went for the mother shade.

Why - if she supposedly had no clue about her mother. And what was that bullshit about the group keep coming for Dorothy...when and who? Like I said, Candiace at this point just seems like an angry, unhinged brat which might be slightly less embarrassing if she was in her early 20s and not a 35 year old woman. Grow the fuck up, already. 

Chris was a bit annoyed to be honest. He actually rolled his eyes when she asked him to carry the second bag.

Regarding the bathroom, there's a difference between not allowing people to use the bathroom for 2 hours vs for 2 days, and you know Gizelle was just being shady with the bathroom story during the Reasonably Shady get together. And what would have happened if Robyn came with Juan on the trip? Would they have shared the room with Gizelle? Wendy absolutely didn't care about ALL of her guests, that's not even shade, it's mean.

Regarding Candiace, maybe she didn't know about Mia's mother the first time she said Low-budget mother, but she did when she said it the second time in the kitchen during the trip. I was rooting for her last year, but she's no different than her mother. I am tired of her.

[JoSafe]

On 10/10/2021 at 10:03 PM, tinaw said:

Please get rid of Candiace, and bring back monique samuels. I think candiace has more then shown that she is the problem.

I can't stand Candiace, but two-faced Monique needs to stay where she is, with her and her husband's poor acting skills.

[JoSafe]

On 10/11/2021 at 12:18 PM, RealReality said:

Karen and Gizelle have been having the same fight for like three seasons and both are in their 50s.  Ashley admitted that she only wrote the statement for Monique to get back at Candace, after the two had made up.  Karen was talking about Gizelle wishing death on Ray for something she said like in season 3.  So, I don't think that anyone should suggest that not letting things go is reserved to Candace.  

And I'd maintain that the two lowest points in the show was Ashley viciously going after a very clearly mentally unstable Katie and only apologizing after Gizelle pretty much forced her and Gizelle wearing that Uncle Ben t-shirt for Karen's "press conference".  

 

In the lowest points, you need to add the gang against Gizelle during the last reunion when they all came to her about Jamal. People like to hurt Gizelle because she's tough, can take it, and will never shed a tear in front of those ladies, but when she does half of it to them, they are all crying and going to mama Karen's arms.

Edited October 28, 2021 by JoSafe

[JoSafe]

On 10/11/2021 at 5:00 PM, qtpye said:

What I got from this episode:

Mia makes $450,000 being a boss bitch.

That is all.

And I am over people telling her she's talking too much about money or about business. She has worked for it. Yeah her husband is rich, but it's not enough to be a successful business woman too, Ashley tried it.

Remember Karen Huger the first seasons? Black Bill Gates? Remember when she wanted to make a clear distinction between smart money (her husband's) and sport money (Charrisse's husband's, Juan's, etc.)?

[JoSafe]

There are lot of "bitches" and "hoes" thrown since Candiace and Wendy joined the franchise. I am just saying. It was classier before.

[lasu]

Why does it seem the onus is on Candiace to control her temper and her words, but not on others to control their tempers and their hands?