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S19.E30: Steven Pinker; Killer Mike; Robert Costa

PrincessPurrsALot
PrincessPurrsALot
Message added by PrincessPurrsALot,

As always, no personal politics.  Stick to the topics discussed on the show. 

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iMonrey

iMonrey

What was the point of the Steven Pinker interview? Was it simply "things aren't so bad so quit complaining?" Is that the gist of it? There is always an agenda with these interview guests, and it's always Bill trotting out someone to agree with one of his old-man opinions. 

Oh for the love of Pete, I wish he would stop having Killer Mike on the panel. Speaking of agendas. If Mike is pissed off because Biden hasn't given him everything he promised during his campaign, right now, then he is shockingly ignorant of how government works. Who exactly does he think is at fault for that? Does he think Biden has the unilateral power to give him everything he wants, instantly? 

And BTW, Mike, Bernie Sanders wanted a 7 trillion dollar plan, not 15.

Bill brought up the thing with protesters following Kirsten Sinema into the restroom twice. I really don't care about that. It's a public restroom and she deserves to be harassed. I'm tired of people equating this with the Jan. 6th riots.

I'm gobsmacked, but it appears as if Bill has finally made the connection that Democrats did not, in fact, run on a platform of "defund the police." Which is weird because it was only a few weeks ago he was pushing the falsehood that they did do that. I wonder who talked him out of it . . . or if he is even aware he has changed positions.

I have to say, he nailed the final new rule. Frightening and true.

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BrownBear2012

BrownBear2012

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

What was the point of the Steven Pinker interview? Was it simply "things aren't so bad so quit complaining?" Is that the gist of it? There is always an agenda with these interview guests, and it's always Bill trotting out someone to agree with one of his old-man opinions. 

Oh for the love of Pete, I wish he would stop having Killer Mike on the panel. Speaking of agendas. If Mike is pissed off because Biden hasn't given him everything he promised during his campaign, right now, then he is shockingly ignorant of how government works. Who exactly does he think is at fault for that? Does he think Biden has the unilateral power to give him everything he wants, instantly? 

And BTW, Mike, Bernie Sanders wanted a 7 trillion dollar plan, not 15.

Bill brought up the thing with protesters following Kirsten Sinema into the restroom twice. I really don't care about that. It's a public restroom and she deserves to be harassed. I'm tired of people equating this with the Jan. 6th riots.

I'm gobsmacked, but it appears as if Bill has finally made the connection that Democrats did not, in fact, run on a platform of "defund the police." Which is weird because it was only a few weeks ago he was pushing the falsehood that they did do that. I wonder who talked him out of it . . . or if he is even aware he has changed positions.

I have to say, he nailed the final new rule. Frightening and true.

Did Killer Mike light up a joint again? He's going to complain about Biden because he hates Biden. He was a Bernie bro and even campaigned for him. Interestingly enough, Killer Mike did not want to get  involved in the BLM protests in Atlanta...even when the Mayor asked for him to help out with speaking to the protestors. He seems to be one of these guys who talks the talk but that's about it...he'd rather be getting stoned then actually doing something.

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revbfc

revbfc

(edited)

I like Killer Mike, I like Robert Costa, and I tolerate Bill, but this episode was defeatist bullshit.

One thing that was (to me) really fucked was Bill saying that we can’t start arresting their guys or they’ll arrest our guys.  First of all (during the Watergate hearings), subpoenas were enforced a few times by the US Marshals.

Secondly, the law is the law, and you can’t play weak when one side wants to burn down the country.

And finally: if anyone tells you a sitting President is above the law and can’t be arrested, bring up the story of Officer William H West.

(Go to Wikipedia, because I can’t post links here for some reason.)

 

Edited by revbfc
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Hanahope

Hanahope

(edited)

Wah wah the Dems promised us X, Y, and Z. What do you expect them to do when they have to deal with 2 dinos in the senate and the gqp refuses to do crap?  How about blaming the people in Maine or Iowa or NC, or Alabama.  Alabama elected Doug Jones, why did they flip to Tommy dumberville?  
 

you really want to let the gqp control part of government? You think they will give you X Y or Z?  or just make things worse.  Seriously Mike do something constructive 

 

and if Sinema doesn’t want people to follow her into restrooms, maybe she should talk to them outside.  But she refuses to talk to her constituents who don’t pay for $5,000 dinners or gives these cutesy sarcastic answers to the press questions. 
  

Edited by Hanahope
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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

On 10/9/2021 at 11:28 AM, iMonrey said:

What was the point of the Steven Pinker interview? Was it simply "things aren't so bad so quit complaining?" Is that the gist of it? There is always an agenda with these interview guests, and it's always Bill trotting out someone to agree with one of his old-man opinions. 

I'm always wary of this talking point and the motivations behind it. It reminds me of how, for several years, back when I used to read Politico, they would have some guy write a, "Things Really Are Good!!!" article near the end of  or at the start of every year,  even as that was very much  not the case. In keen timing, I think he finally admitted this was no longer really true around 2019 or 2020, and  stopped writing the articles. 

I ended up seeing a little of this and saw "Killer Mike" saying it was fine to hurl abuse at Biden (which I don't really disagree with -  people a re going to  say what they are  going to say, not much to do about it) because he wants to be tough so he has to take it,  or whatever, and how this is similar to rap culture. I should be amazed that anyone is actually paid  for expertise that sounds like something from an old Mad  TV sketch, but sadly, I am not.

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ahpny

ahpny

Quote

Oh for the love of Pete, I wish he would stop having Killer Mike on the panel.

I dreaded his appearance here, as I have his appearance in past episodes. But I found him here somewhat less offensive than usual. However, if he thinks government municipalities should be off the hook for paying for police misconduct in legal actions, then how does he propose these victims will be compensated? Last I heard, few if any, cops seem to be in the top 1%. Too many of his opinions make no sense.

Regarding Bill's effort to raise the Democratic troops into action to combat the continuing, if slow moving, coup, we can only hope that those leading these Democratic troops have already charted out strategies to push back on this. Sadly, we've seen little evidence that this is indeed happening, and it is as frightening as Bill suggests.

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wknt3

wknt3

Watched this along with LWT and Bill's final New Rules bit was annoyingly well done. Annoyingly in that this is one of those weeks were Bill shows that the voice that first drew me to him is still in there and that he could do so much more if he tried. Here is a theme that could set him aside from the pack if he chose to do so or cared enough to earn the respect and elder statesman of topical comedy status he so obviously craves. Also annoying in that he doesn't bother to bring it up where it would make sense - didn't see him pressing Costa on putting book profits over the fate of the republic by not releasing information when it might have helped shock people into action. And that he doesn't bother to take his own words to heart - why not announce that he is going to stop whining about his pet causes and not getting everything he wants on everything but existential issues like climate change and voting rights? I know he is capable of this to some degree if he wants. I remember 2016 when he was the only host that nailed the election from start to finish and managed to overcome his own whims (I mean you know hiring the more experienced and qualified woman over the cranky old man is not Bill's knee jerk reaction...)

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BrownBear2012

BrownBear2012

On 10/9/2021 at 9:33 PM, Hanahope said:

Wah wah the Dems promised us X, Y, and Z. What do you expect them to do when they have to deal with 2 dinos in the senate and the gqp refuses to do crap?  How about blaming the people in Maine or Iowa or NC, or Alabama.  Alabama elected Doug Jones, why did they flip to Tommy dumberville?  
 

you really want to let the gqp control part of government? You think they will give you X Y or Z?  or just make things worse.  Seriously Mike do something constructive 

 

and if Sinema doesn’t want people to follow her into restrooms, maybe she should talk to them outside.  But she refuses to talk to her constituents who don’t pay for $5,000 dinners or gives these cutesy sarcastic answers to the press questions. 
  

Amen to everything you said. Killer Mike is a disgruntled Bernie Bro...he hates Hillary, Biden and all the Democrats that aren't Bernie supporters. He actually gave a speech a few years ago in front of influential black entertainers, business people and activists where he encouraged them NOT to vote if they don't like the candidates...or the candidates don't align perfectly with your political points of view. And he was specifically talking about Democrat candidates...so it would be better not to vote and let Trump get reelected than to "settle" for a Democrat that basically isn't Bernie. His rhetoric is stupid and only hurts his community. I don't understand why he is considered an influencer...he's just a negative loud mouth.

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BrownBear2012

BrownBear2012

(edited)
On 10/11/2021 at 9:42 AM, ahpny said:

I dreaded his appearance here, as I have his appearance in past episodes. But I found him here somewhat less offensive than usual. However, if he thinks government municipalities should be off the hook for paying for police misconduct in legal actions, then how does he propose these victims will be compensated? Last I heard, few if any, cops seem to be in the top 1%. Too many of his opinions make no sense.

Regarding Bill's effort to raise the Democratic troops into action to combat the continuing, if slow moving, coup, we can only hope that those leading these Democratic troops have already charted out strategies to push back on this. Sadly, we've seen little evidence that this is indeed happening, and it is as frightening as Bill suggests.

Several points about Bill's "slow moving coup" speech...

Bill is not the only one who has sounded the alarm about a coup...Malcolm Nance, Hillary Clinton and many other constitutional experts have been saying the same thing for months. Why the national media has picked up on Bill's coup alarm and not all the other people that have been saying this publicly, must be the work of his publicist or team at HBO.

Secondly...Bill needs to look at himself and some of his negative and destructive comments about Hillary, Obama, Biden and other Democrats during the campaign and afterwards. Jokes are one thing but nasty, ageist, misogynistic remarks just seemed bitter and mean spirited. If he is really concerned about the coup then maybe start acting like a grown up instead of an aging frat boy....and quit complaining that Democrats and "liberals" won't come on your show anymore. They don't come on your show because you treat them like shit...cutting them off when they are talking, insulting them...like you did the last time Elizabeth Warren was on the show several years ago and you called her "Pocahontas"...and then ridiculing them in your monolgues. 

Edited by BrownBear2012
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Tachi Rocinante

Tachi Rocinante

16 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Several points about Bill's "slow moving coup" speech...

Bill is not the only one who has sounded the alarm about a coup...Malcolm Nance, Hillary Clinton and many other constitutional experts have been saying the same thing for months. Why the national media has picked up on Bill's coup alarm and not all the other people that have been saying this publicly, must be the work of his publicist or team at HBO.

That's not very fair - to his credit, he's been talking about this specifically (and in more general terms) a lot longer than Malcolm and Hillary have.  And I've only heard Malcom talk about it after he was a guest on the show.

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angelamh66

angelamh66

I haven't been watching this show for months because I couldn't handle Bill moaning about cancel culture and carrying the water for the Repubs for one more minute.  But I watched New Rules this week because I heard it was spot on.  And honestly, I had a hard time sleeping.  I know all these things are happening.  But having it all pieced together like that was chilling.  It is hard to have perspective when you are living through something like this, but I know this is how it starts in other countries in which democracy fell.  I want to scream at the top of my lungs but nobody is listening.  I am actually terrified that democracy will fall. And while I like Joe Biden, his cockeyed optimism about compromise and working with both parties just ignores that the other party contains wannabe authoritarians. I do share Bill's frustration about that.  

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BrownBear2012

BrownBear2012

7 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

That's not very fair - to his credit, he's been talking about this specifically (and in more general terms) a lot longer than Malcolm and Hillary have.  And I've only heard Malcom talk about it after he was a guest on the show.

I did not say that Bill hadn't talked about this in the past...what I said was the mainstream media grabbed Bill's slow moving coup discussion from last Friday and made it seem as though he was the only media figure to have ever said that when others like Malcolm Nance, Hillary Clinton, constitutional law experts, etc. have been saying this for awhile and the mainstream media has not mentioned their warnings or shown clips of them saying this. And I have to say you are wrong about Malcolm Nance...he has been sounding the alarm for a long time...even written about it while Trump was President. 

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shok

shok

12 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

And I have to say you are wrong about Malcolm Nance...he has been sounding the alarm for a long time...even written about it while Trump was President. 

Yes, and Rachel Maddow has been talking about it and reporting on it for years.

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BrownBear2012

BrownBear2012

12 hours ago, shok said:

Yes, and Rachel Maddow has been talking about it and reporting on it for years.

 

12 hours ago, shok said:

Yes, and Rachel Maddow has been talking about it and reporting on it for years.

Also, Joy Reid and Lawrence O'Donnell.

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Milburn Stone

Milburn Stone

(edited)

Bill is not the only one to talk about a slow moving coup. But he is, to my knowledge, the first to bring it alive with a story that puts us right in the middle of a present and future dystopia. 

I've seen or read all the other slow moving coup analyses. This was the first time I felt truly shaken, as if it was really happening. There's a big difference between that reaction and "slow moving coup, yeah, that's true, I get it, yada yada yada, what else is new." Telling it as a story was a brilliant idea, which worked as intended.

Edited by Milburn Stone
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Hanahope

Hanahope

I'm not so sure its "slow moving" anymore.  It seemed pretty fast on Jan. 6, and now its continuing.  I suppose "slow" in terms of its going to take until 2024 officially, but its definitely progressing pretty quickly through local elections and attacks on local offices.  

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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

3 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I'm not so sure its "slow moving" anymore. 

It was slow when he first brought it up, but after Jan 6, as Bill pointed out in the new rules with something like Georgia taking authority away from the Secretary of State, etc., it's well paced now and quite blatant. 

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opus

opus

7 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

OK....then next week. I don't watch the show anymore so I'm unaware of the show schedule.

He’ll probably have Gruden as a guest next week.

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