S03.E10: Troubled Water

[Sakura12]

Things go from bad to worse as the Titans are falsely blamed for poisoning the city, forcing them into a perilous position as they work to regain Gotham's trust.

[Sakura12]

So Donna somehow showed up to save Bruce just in time. But had to take a cab and walk to Gotham. Also how is Donna half human and half Amazon are they ever going to explain that. Was her mother and Amazon? Were they implying that Lydia's daughter was Donna's mother?

I'm guessing this is what will turn Barbara into Oracle. Her own department turned on her.

Still don't care about Jason and Crane. 

I still have no idea what they are doing with Blackfire. And is Kory powerless now? 

Does this show even know what it wants to be? They've done the team separates for reasons for 3 seasons now. They need better writers if this all they can come up with. 

[Primal Slayer]

What was this episode? It made little to no sense. 

We end the last episode with Donna saving Bruce and yet this episode we dont see or hear of Bruce. Did he go back to sulking in his castle? And was it not meant to be Wayne Manor? 

Why do the writers keep forgetting what powers Donna have throughout the episode? Why is she taking a cab to Gotham (with what money) and why does she walk the rest of the way when SHE HAS SUPERSPEED???? Aunt Lydia (under his eye) is able to teleport to Gotham somehow and test Donna because Donna wasnt brought back correctly? And Donna has to prove that she still knows how to fight? What? I don't understand. 

Titans.....how did that video even implicate them as trying to poison everyone? And why would you turn in Krypto as well? Can you not just find a babysitter? Barbara has been shown to be respected amongst her co-workers so it didnt make sense that cop guy would just totally disobey her and all of the cops would ignore her when she is the one in charge. 

Blackfire doesn't have any powers? Im confused....why would Kory only have powers? Isnt that part of the Tamareonan (sp) alien package? I dont understand how/why she would absorb her powers and whatever happened to her being the big bad? Did they just not know what to do with Kory so they decided "we'll add her sister to the Titans for no good reason so Kory can have someone to argue with and talk about their home planet with"? 

I wish HBO would get a new showrunner because this show is being wasted.

[Primal Slayer]

And I love that a show that can say "Fuck Batman" has to use an edited version of an Amy Whinehouse song where they edit out "dick" 

[KittenPokerCheater]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

 

What was this episode? It made little to no sense. 

 

 

I know, right?

Of course, both Red Hood and Blackfire are completely irredeemable for me now.

 I hope Kory gets her powers back STAT.

Rachel/Raven is back, but I'm pretty sure it's either a hallucination caused by tainted water or Dark Evil Raven.  The weird eye thing gave it away.

I wished they had skipped Donna's walk to Gotham because I feel like it was wasted time.  Just have her show up and help them fix things Gotham.  Hopefully Scarecrow will meet some gruesome end- falling off a cliff or getting incinerated by a random bolt of lightning.  (I'm holding a grudge at Kathesier for his behavior during filming).

[UnoAgain]

Just get Donna to tim ... That's all I'm asking show... After that.. Do what you want... But get big sis to find and then mentor lil robin

[Nellise]

All of Donna's scenes made no sense, not that anything else did, but hers were the worst. I have no idea what that "trial" was trying to show.

Why is Barbara being written like she doesn't know what job she has? Did she approve the 50 cops in riot gear to handle a few people that were peacefully turning themselves in while the city was being overrun elsewhere?

Kory accusing Blackfire of that being Blackfire's plan made me laugh: obviously Blackfire planned for dirty cops to shoot Superboy so it would ricochet off him and nearly kill her which would force Kory to take her and Blackfire to a secluded place so Kory can use her healing ability she didn't know about so Blackfire can steal Kory's powers and then offer to try to give them back but rely on Kory pitching a fit so Blackfire keeps the powers. Flawless plan.

Aren't the Titans famous so wouldn't the cops know who Superboy is so maybe think twice about shooting him and making him angry?

They need to write this show as villain of the week or something because they're terrible at these long arcs. The previous episode showed it can be fun, while still being nonsensical, because the characters are good and these giant flaws wouldn't show so clearly if each episode had a resolution.

[Sakura12]

In most iterations the police and bad guys shoot at Superman when they know he's bulletproof. It's always dumb, yet they always show it.

Yeah, Donna's storyline this episode was a pointless waste of time. What was that training doing, proving she can still fight like an Amazon? Why wasn't Donna speed running to Gotham? She used her super speed more in the afterlife. She also could've sped past the guards, they wouldn't even know she was there. 

If they wanted to slow down Donna's return they could've had her go find Tim first and talk to him. That would've made more sense then having Lydia show up out of nowhere to test Donna. 

[blackwing]

3 hours ago, Nellise said:

All of Donna's scenes made no sense, not that anything else did, but hers were the worst. I have no idea what that "trial" was trying to show.

Why is Barbara being written like she doesn't know what job she has? Did she approve the 50 cops in riot gear to handle a few people that were peacefully turning themselves in while the city was being overrun elsewhere?

Kory accusing Blackfire of that being Blackfire's plan made me laugh: obviously Blackfire planned for dirty cops to shoot Superboy so it would ricochet off him and nearly kill her which would force Kory to take her and Blackfire to a secluded place so Kory can use her healing ability she didn't know about so Blackfire can steal Kory's powers and then offer to try to give them back but rely on Kory pitching a fit so Blackfire keeps the powers. Flawless plan.

Aren't the Titans famous so wouldn't the cops know who Superboy is so maybe think twice about shooting him and making him angry?

They need to write this show as villain of the week or something because they're terrible at these long arcs. The previous episode showed it can be fun, while still being nonsensical, because the characters are good and these giant flaws wouldn't show so clearly if each episode had a resolution.

I agree, villain of the week would be much more preferable than this.  The long storyline this year is terrible.

Donna's scenes were a complete waste of time.  After re-materialising in this world in Bruce's Irish castle, she's been making her way to Gotham.  How?  Why was Lydia able to teleport direct to Gotham but Donna has been taking planes trains and automobiles to get there?  Did she take a plane to Gotham from Ireland?  Why wouldn't she just superspeed her way past everybody on her way to Wayne Manor?

I enjoyed the battle between the Titans and the cops, I liked seeing them all contribute and I especially liked seeing Gar turn tiger again.  But that fight should have been over in a minute, Connor could have easily zipped around and taken all the guns from the cops before anyone could blink.

I don't know what is going on with Blackfire and Starfire but I agree that it's highly doubtful that Blackfire purposely got shot so that she could steal Kory's powers.  Also, why can't she just give them back?  And didn't that suit or gauntlets give Blackfire some kind of powers?  I could have sworn I saw her shooting out something in a previous episode.

I really couldn't care less about Crane and Jason.  I'm sure Vincent Kartheiser thinks he is killing it as Crane but really he's just a pale Joker imitation and the schtick is way beyond its expiration date.

[tennisgurl]

8 hours ago, Nellise said:

They need to write this show as villain of the week or something because they're terrible at these long arcs.

I very much agree, this show needed some villains of the week, it really sucks at long term plotting. This Gotham stuff is just a complete mess, I don't know why half the characters are doing anything, Blackfire is pointless, I am sick of the team being separated all of the time, damn it I want this show to be better then it is! I think it got too ambitious when they realized how much of DC cannon they could play with (especially Batman) and they just went to town without really thinking about the actual long term storytelling. Villains of the week or even smaller two or three episode arcs would have been so much better, they can play with all of their favorite toys without any plot getting drawn out too much with no exit strategy and we could focus on more exploring this universe and the characters. 

Donna and Blackfire fight over who's scenes are the most nonsensical. Nobody wins.

Edited October 1, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Affogato]

On 9/30/2021 at 10:20 AM, Primal Slayer said:

We end the last episode with Donna saving Bruce and yet this episode we dont see or hear of Bruce. Did he go back to sulking in his castle? And was it not meant to be Wayne Manor? 

 Aunt Lydia (under his eye) is able to teleport to Gotham somehow and test Donna because Donna wasnt brought back correctly? And Donna has to prove that she still knows how to fight? What? I don't understand.

I think he was in a castle in Ireland or Scotland?  It wasn't Wayne Manor because 1) he is still presumably wanted for murder 2) he hasn't made plans past his planned death, so he needs some time to organize himself. 3) if he went there he'd have to deal with the Titans, and there wasn't time for that in this episode. You know.

What I got from Lydia's test is that she feels Donna is like a daughter to her, and she lost her biological daughter, so this means a lot. She realized that Donna was now hampered by fearing death, which makes her a less effective warrior and leader and also is a weakness that can make her become a danger to the world, a villain. Just like Jason, who was drawn to the antifear drug because of his brush with death.

Donna was moving slowly because coming back from death is hard. Did she walk across the ocean? I'm not sure she wasn't in some sort of other space.

I think the Crane story is like the current or a recent story in the comics. This makes me think that once it is finished we will see something new. It took a while to get Dick into his suit and it takes a while to get the Titans into their tower.

I liked that Connor's understanding of the situation was childlike and without nuance, because this makes sense. I'm still liking Kartheiser and don't see any of the Joker in him, but I haven't seen all the vintages. I still think it is more Hannibal Lecter.

On 10/1/2021 at 6:28 AM, Nellise said:

Why is Barbara being written like she doesn't know what job she has? Did she approve the 50 cops in riot gear to handle a few people that were peacefully turning themselves in while the city was being overrun elsewhere?

 

To make Dick's surrender a public spectacle. That is the plan.  He could have just put on a hoodie and come back with her after his drink, if turning himself in quietly was the point of the exercise.  I assume that turning himself in makes the police look like they are in control and have caught the culprits. We know this isn't true, but it is the rumor in the city and it is endangering people.

Is there a Justice League at this point? Superman should be flying in pallets of untainted water.

 

 

[Primal Slayer]

6 hours ago, Affogato said:

I think he was in a castle in Ireland or Scotland?  It wasn't Wayne Manor because 1) he is still presumably wanted for murder 2) he hasn't made plans past his planned death, so he needs some time to organize himself. 3) if he went there he'd have to deal with the Titans, and there wasn't time for that in this episode. You know.

What I got from Lydia's test is that she feels Donna is like a daughter to her, and she lost her biological daughter, so this means a lot. She realized that Donna was now hampered by fearing death, which makes her a less effective warrior and leader and also is a weakness that can make her become a danger to the world, a villain. Just like Jason, who was drawn to the antifear drug because of his brush with death.

Donna was moving slowly because coming back from death is hard. Did she walk across the ocean? I'm not sure she wasn't in some sort of other space.

I think the Crane story is like the current or a recent story in the comics. This makes me think that once it is finished we will see something new. It took a while to get Dick into his suit and it takes a while to get the Titans into their tower.

I liked that Connor's understanding of the situation was childlike and without nuance, because this makes sense. I'm still liking Kartheiser and don't see any of the Joker in him, but I haven't seen all the vintages. I still think it is more Hannibal Lecter.

To make Dick's surrender a public spectacle. That is the plan.  He could have just put on a hoodie and come back with her after his drink, if turning himself in quietly was the point of the exercise.  I assume that turning himself in makes the police look like they are in control and have caught the culprits. We know this isn't true, but it is the rumor in the city and it is endangering people.

Is there a Justice League at this point? Superman should be flying in pallets of untainted water.

 

 

The way you explain it would be a great way to express it in the show and it'd be 10x better but the writers suck at this imo

[Linderhill]

On 9/30/2021 at 1:28 PM, KittenPokerCheater said:

(I'm holding a grudge at Kathesier for his behavior during filming).

heck, I still dislike him from his Angel days.  He's even more annoying now.  

This season started out so well, so much promise, now it's, well ....

[Delphi]

If you told me that Donna would be my favorite titan 3 years ago I would have called you a liar, yet here we are. 

I really don't understand why Babs was arrested,  she told her officer to stand down and he ignored the commissioner of police.   Like wtf. 

[Bruinsfan]

It must be really important to follow internal affairs procedures to the letter in the middle of a huge crisis where half the city is violently tripping.

So Dick and Connor can't go back to Wayne Manor because it's the first place people would look, but escaped terrorist Jonathan Crane can walk in and lounge around the place with no worries?

Lydia can apparently not only teleport from Themiscyra to the outskirts of Gotham City, but also pull Donna into some other dimension where time passes differently and then spit her out again hours later at her intended destination. Wouldn't all of this have made more sense if it was Rachel following Donna and holding her up with a tearful reunion rather than sparring practice? Because those sound like Raven's powers, not those of an Amazon.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Bruinsfan

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

It must be really important to follow internal affairs procedures to the letter in the middle of a huge crisis where half the city is violently tripping.

So Dick and Connor can't go back to Wayne Manor because it's the first place people would look, but escaped terrorist Jonathan Crane can walk in and lounge around the place with no worries?

Lydia can apparently not only teleport from Themiscyra to the outskirts of Gotham City, but also pull Donna into some other dimension where time passes differently and then spit her out again hours later at her intended destination. Wouldn't all of this have made more sense if it was Rachel following Donna and holding her up with a tearful reunion rather than sparring practice? Because those sound like Raven's powers, not those of an Amazon.

I’m thinking donnas metaphorical fight, which Raven doesn’t understand. BUt Lydia does, will allow Donna to successfully reach out to Jason. Sparring well spent. 
 

i think Donna was already in the other dimension.

yes they might look for Dick in his childhood home and current residence. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Affogato

[millennium]

On 10/3/2021 at 9:51 PM, Linderhill said:

heck, I still dislike him from his Angel days.  He's even more annoying now. 

I've never been able to shake that first impression.   Throughout Mad Men people insisted on calling him Pete.   All I saw was Conor.   Still do.

I guess it never occurred to Barbara to do more than just watch the shitshow unfold below her, finally acting only after it was too late.   The same empty-headedness apparently affected Dick because it didn't occur to him to call out "Hey Commissioner, do you see what's happening down here?  A little help, please?"

I have no forgiveness in me for Jason Todd.   He and his pompadour can do me a favor and die again.

[Bruinsfan]

Amen. Of course, for me that feeling is unchanged from the previous two seasons. If he whinges at the Titans about his issues and gets welcomed back with open arms, I hope Krypto heat visions him into a pile of ash.

[MarkHB]

Raven made a portal,  and I thought it was really coo!l

[shrewd.buddha]

On 9/30/2021 at 8:49 AM, Sakura12 said:

Donna somehow showed up to save Bruce just in time. But had to take a cab and walk to Gotham.

 

On 9/30/2021 at 10:20 AM, Primal Slayer said:

Why is she taking a cab to Gotham (with what money) and why does she walk the rest of the way when SHE HAS SUPERSPEED????

 

On 9/30/2021 at 10:20 AM, Primal Slayer said:

What was this episode? It made little to no sense.

Are the writers on acid?: Donna can apparently teleport from her deathbed on Paradise Island to wherever Bruce was.  Later, she seems to be getting off a plane in the US.  But then, later, she says she has no ID at the Gotham 'border crossing' bridge (but she was able to fly without one? ).  And why would Wonder Girl need to get into Gotham at a crossing gate? -- couldn't she just go cross-country, swim a river, etc.? 

Raven also seems to be able to teleport to Gotham -- yet  I suspect she will never use this power when it could actually be useful..

Speaking of useless powers: Superboy here is a bad as on Smallville: he could handle almost all of their immediate problems with superspeed, invulnerability, strength, vision and/or hearing - - but he never does, because the the other characters need to have hand-to-hand combat scenes, I guess.

On 10/1/2021 at 6:28 AM, Nellise said:

Kory accusing Blackfire of that being Blackfire's plan made me laugh: obviously Blackfire planned for dirty cops to shoot Superboy so it would ricochet off him and nearly kill her which would force Kory to take her and Blackfire to a secluded place so Kory can use her healing ability she didn't know about so Blackfire can steal Kory's powers and then offer to try to give them back but rely on Kory pitching a fit so Blackfire keeps the powers. Flawless plan.

The 'teenage' blame-game logic that this show uses - constantly - is mind boggling.  The animated Teen Titans Go! seems more logical in comparison.

[CletusMusashi]

Am I the only one who actually wanted to see them all pretend to be model prisoners for an episode or two?

Complete with Krypto getting paw-printed and fitted out in an orange jumpsuit?

[moonshine71]

On 10/5/2021 at 1:38 PM, Affogato said:

yes they might look for Dick in his childhood home and current residence. 

Who is they? Does everyone know he's Nightwing? It seems like that sometimes, but then his repeated denial to Tim suggested otherwise. 

[moonshine71]

Wtf, this show went full stupid.

So, were the Titans actually charged with a crime by city prosecutors because an escaped, convicted murderer with a long, documented history of trying to poison the city with mind altering drugs aired a pirate broadcast accusing them of... poisoning the city with mind altering drugs, along with some video that really proves nothing of the sort?

It's stupid enough that the general populace would believe it, but the police and prosecutors? I guess bribery could be the underlying factor, but the police weren't bribed until AFTER Dick decided to to turn himself in.

Barbara's reaction to Dick saying he'd turn himself in should have been "uh, for what, you haven't been charged with anything"