Only Speculation Without Spoilers In the Thread

[cardigirl]

5 minutes ago, FGomez said:

The body type, Rapaport is way two big for being GG

and the belly of the GG is obvioulsly fake. So my conclusion is that Inspector Kreps is just being framed. I will stick with Luis.

Not sure what "belly" you're referring to.  In the picture, third from the left, the figure is facing to the left and that's a backpack or pack of some sort. I don't see it as his body.

[FGomez]

6 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Not sure what "belly" you're referring to

I don't know it that is an intentional fake belly or what. But the GG is slim.

[LilaFowler]

Bunny greeted her murderer with the words, "what the fuck do you want?!" Bunny was a tough old NYC broad but I don't think she'd mouth off to a cop like that. I don't think Kreps killed her.

[shapeshifter]

28 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

Bunny greeted her murderer with the words, "what the fuck do you want?!" Bunny was a tough old NYC broad but I don't think she'd mouth off to a cop like that. I don't think Kreps killed her.

Depends.
Kreps had likely been bugging Bunny for info on Tim's murder and she thought that was all over with.
So I can imagine "tough old NYC broad" Bunny feeling familiar enough with Kreps, and moody enough after having the door shut in her face by Oliver after they accepted her champagne, that she would say to Kreps: "What the fuck do you want?!"
Right?
But why would Kreps kill Bunny?
Maybe the first stab was an "accident" and everything else was a coverup? 
And why would he have Oliver's knife?
Maybe it's not Oliver's knife? Maybe Bunny has the same set?
And maybe Kreps was there to question Bunny about the painting at her mother's request.

Or:
This scenario could work for Theo too, minus the painting investigation.
Maybe Theo was there to make amends but Bunny felt threatened, pulled a knife (like Oliver's) and Theo deflected the knife into Bunny.
Then he dragged her to Mabel's apartment and added the knitting needle?
And that's why he wanted to help Mabel in the last episode? 
Theo accidentally got someone killed once before in a not so different way, right?

[Cranberry]

Be careful if you read the subreddit. Apparently people who have seen the final two episode screeners have been posting spoilers and not properly tagging them. It seems a spoilery Collider article was accidentally posted ahead of time as well; it's been taken down now but is still available through a cached copy. In addition to that, a Russian site apparently leaked (part of) episode 9 early, so there are quite a few people at this point who know what's going to happen. I haven't read any spoilers because I want to be surprised, so I'm avoiding the subreddit for now.

[Snazzy Daisy]

In Reddit, that person posted 4 spoilery images disguised as promo pics for Ep.09.

On Twitter, I saw some Russian accs. posted some “promo” images but I think they’re gone now.

[Cranberry]

Yeah, the mods have been removing spoilers as they see them, but I can't really trust the speculation threads on the subreddit to be pure speculation now (some people love to pass spoilers off as their own theories so they look smart -- and yes, it's been happening there), so it's kind of ruined the atmosphere. It sucks.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

Yeah, the mods have been removing spoilers as they see them, but I can't really trust the speculation threads to be pure speculation now (some people love to pass spoilers off as their own theories so they look smart -- and yes, it's been happening there), so it's kind of ruined the atmosphere. It sucks.

@Cranberry, do you mean this thread might wind up with spoilers?

[Cranberry]

I don't think so. This is a smaller community and people here tend to be better about keeping spoilers in the proper place.

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Yeah, the mods have been removing spoilers as they see them, but I can't really trust the speculation threads on the subreddit to be pure speculation now (some people love to pass spoilers off as their own theories so they look smart -- and yes, it's been happening there), so it's kind of ruined the atmosphere. It sucks.

Thanks for the heads up.  Spoilers for streaming and cable shows these days are usually harder to come by so I usually feel safe reading spoiler threads.  I might expect a mild spoiler but nothing major.

But knowing major spoilers are out about this, I'll avoid those threads.

[paigow]

Amy Schumer has to be ruled out as a suspect.

• No motive to murder Bunny.
• Charles & Oliver are irrelevant in the entertainment world; therefore, posing no threat requiring them to be framed.
• Implausible she knows about secret passages

[grandmabegum]

8 minutes ago, paigow said:

Amy Schumer has to be ruled out as a suspect.

I agree she would be a disappointing conclusion.

[LuvMyShows]

This is the list of Questions through episode 8.  It will be updated after each episode.  Any comments/suggestions are welcomed!

On 8/3/2022 at 9:20 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Answered:

• Why was Bunny wearing the podcast hoodie? - because the gang gave it to her as a consolation gift when they didn't invite her in, when she brought champagne up to thank them for solving the mystery
• How did the painting, and now knife, get put into Charles' apartment? - someone used the secret passage from his bathroom that Lucy showed them
• Is there anything fishy about Detective Kreps saying Detective Williams is in Denver?  - No, and she came back early from maternity leave cause she couldn't stop thinking about the case

Unanswered:

• Bunny's death:
  • What was the significance of Bunny's dying word "savage" or "Savage" or "passage"?
  • What was the significance of Bunny's dying word "14"?
  • Why was Bunny in Mabel's apartment?
  • Who killed Bunny?
  • Was the knitting needle really Mabel's? - we saw in her flashback that her needle was not there when she went to grab it, but that is not definitive proof
  • Is the murderer the same as the person in the black boots who got off the elevator and came to her apartment?
• Painting:
  • Why was the painting taken from Bunny's apartment?
  • Was the painting in Bunny's apartment already a forgery or did the thief replace it with a forgery? 
  • Was the painting put in Charles' apartment solely as an attempt to frame him for Bunny's murder?
• What is the full story with Charles' father?
• Oliver's bloody knife:
  • Who or what is the source of the blood, and how did the blood get on the knife?
  • Who put it in Charles' apartment and why?
  • Is the knife the same as the knife used as the murder weapon? 
• Who sent the "get out of the building" text?
• Who had they been texting with, since it wasn't Detective Williams?
• Who did Bunny have lunch with at the diner?
• Who did Lucy see in the secret passageway with a mask, wearing booties, and sneezed?
• What was Nina going to put on the roof?
• Why did Nina give Howard the black eye?
• How did the crowd find out about Bunny's murder so quickly to be there outside the Arconia when our gang was taken out in handcuffs almost immediately after the police arrived?
• Why did Lucy really contact Charles at this point?  How long had Lucy been hanging out in the Arconia's tunnels when we see her meet Charles, and what was down the tunnel passage that Lucy claimed "was a dead end"?
• Matchbook found in Mabel's apartment:
  • Who dropped it in Mabel's apartment , and is that the same person who initially picked it up at the diner after meeting with Bunny there?
  • Whose bloody fingerprint is on the matchbook?
• What is behind Detective Kreps' surly attitude?
• Is there any significance to Mabel's father?
• Since Ivan knew that Bunny died, why did he return the money and put it under her door? And did Ivan return ALL the money, since the envelope appeared thicker when Bunny first gave it to him.
• Glitter Guy (GG):
  • Who is GG?
  • Did he have prior knowledge of the bag in the trash can, and if so, how?
  • Why did he have a photo of Lucy?
  • Did he know she had the matchbook in her bag, and if so, how?
  • Why did he attack Mabel on the subway?  Was it just to steal her bag with the matchbook?
• If the video of Mabel attacking the guy on the subway had gone viral, why hasn't anyone come to arrest her?
• Was the blackout a coincidence or sinister, and if sinister, who orchestrated it?
• Who was the guy chasing Lucy in the passageways and what knife was he holding?

Leftover unanswered from Season 1:

• Why was Tim's phone not sent to be examined?
• Why was the detective's request on drug testing Tim's body turned down?
• Who put the note on Jan's door (or was it Jan herself)?
• Who poisoned Winnie the dog?
• Did Evelyn the cat die as Jan said, by coming into Tim Kono's apartment and walking through Tim's poisoned blood?

[LuvMyShows]

I tried a new method for doing the compilation, and I'm not sure it worked, so here it is again:

Answered:

• Why was Bunny wearing the podcast hoodie? - because the gang gave it to her as a consolation gift when they didn't invite her in, when she brought champagne up to thank them for solving the mystery
• How did the painting, and now knife, get put into Charles' apartment? - someone used the secret passage from his bathroom that Lucy showed them
• Is there anything fishy about Detective Kreps saying Detective Williams is in Denver?  - No, and she came back early from maternity leave cause she couldn't stop thinking about the case

Unanswered:

• Bunny's death:
  • What was the significance of Bunny's dying word "savage" or "Savage" or "passage"?
  • What was the significance of Bunny's dying word "14"?
  • Why was Bunny in Mabel's apartment?
  • Who killed Bunny?
  • Was the knitting needle really Mabel's? - we saw in her flashback that her needle was not there when she went to grab it, but that is not definitive proof
  • Is the murderer the same as the person in the black boots who got off the elevator and came to her apartment?
• Painting:
  • Why was the painting taken from Bunny's apartment?
  • Was the painting in Bunny's apartment already a forgery or did the thief replace it with a forgery? 
  • Was the painting put in Charles' apartment solely as an attempt to frame him for Bunny's murder?
• What is the full story with Charles' father?
• Oliver's bloody knife:
  • Who or what is the source of the blood, and how did the blood get on the knife?
  • Who put it in Charles' apartment and why?
  • Is the knife the same as the knife used as the murder weapon? 
• Who sent the "get out of the building" text?
• Who had they been texting with, since it wasn't Detective Williams?
• Who did Bunny have lunch with at the diner?
• Who did Lucy see in the secret passageway with a mask, wearing booties, and sneezed?
• What was Nina going to put on the roof?
• Why did Nina give Howard the black eye?
• How did the crowd find out about Bunny's murder so quickly to be there outside the Arconia when our gang was taken out in handcuffs almost immediately after the police arrived?
• Why did Lucy really contact Charles at this point?  How long had Lucy been hanging out in the Arconia's tunnels when we see her meet Charles, and what was down the tunnel passage that Lucy claimed "was a dead end"?
• Matchbook found in Mabel's apartment:
  • Who dropped it in Mabel's apartment , and is that the same person who initially picked it up at the diner after meeting with Bunny there?
  • Whose bloody fingerprint is on the matchbook?
• What is behind Detective Kreps' surly attitude?
• Is there any significance to Mabel's father?
• Since Ivan knew that Bunny died, why did he return the money and put it under her door? And did Ivan return ALL the money, since the envelope appeared thicker when Bunny first gave it to him.
• Glitter Guy (GG):
  • Who is GG?
  • Did he have prior knowledge of the bag in the trash can, and if so, how?
  • Why did he have a photo of Lucy?
  • Did he know she had the matchbook in her bag, and if so, how?
  • Why did he attack Mabel on the subway?  Was it just to steal her bag with the matchbook?
• If the video of Mabel attacking the guy on the subway had gone viral, why hasn't anyone come to arrest her?
• Was the blackout a coincidence or sinister, and if sinister, who orchestrated it?
• Who was the guy chasing Lucy in the passageways and what knife was he holding?

Leftover unanswered from Season 1:

• Why was Tim's phone not sent to be examined?
• Why was the detective's request on drug testing Tim's body turned down?
• Who put the note on Jan's door (or was it Jan herself)?
• Who poisoned Winnie the dog?
• Did Evelyn the cat die as Jan said, by coming into Tim Kono's apartment and walking through Tim's poisoned blood?

[FGomez]

OK. This is what I have in my mind, previous to the last two episodes.

A. What I take for granted. I don't pay attention to what characters say because it is all comedy and red herrings. So I rely on what we see.

There are 3 different masked characters. in order of appearance:

(1) first masked character in the passages, saw by Lucy. She is Mabel. Confidence: 90% based on the lips and body type.

(2) Unknown character at the bar. He is Nina's lover. confidence 40%, based on body type,  motive to kill Bunny and he can do well in a finale full of action

(3) Glittered guy. He is Luis. Confidence 50% based on body type, being "the new sound guy" and the time sequence in that episode. The other option is obviously Kreps, I give him 40% at this point.

B. Facts that have to be explained (taken A for granted)

How and why was Mabel in the passages while Bunny was forced into her apartment by Nina's lover, while she should be celebrating at the attic?

Why Luis texted Charles and Oliver "get out of the building now"? Why did he tried to get the matches? What was he going to say to Mabel when she needled him?

Who has taken the trouble to frame the trio?

Why Nina's lover entered Charles' apartment during the blackout?

C.  My more likely explanation of those facts

Mabel has a secret motive to be in the Arconia since day one. She is looking for something related to her family. She turned her apartment upside down but she didn't find it, so that thing has to be in the passages and she goes there all the time. While she was going to take the champagne, she heard something strange in the passages and she went there. Lucy saw her. She didn't find anything and came back to her apartment for the champagne.

When she entered her apartment, she found Bunny dying. Nina's lover killed her because Bunny wouldn't let him and Nina monetize the Arconia. He escaped by the passages to Nina's apartment, in floor 14, that is why Bunny said "14 passage". Nina's lover had to run away in a hurry because of Mabel, so he left behind a hint that nobody realized yet, but it is very important. During the blackout it was the perfect time to go back for it. He thought that the apartment was empty, but Lucy was there instead, so he went after her to make sure she didn't speak. The hint has to be still in Charles' apartment.

Luis, the GG, is a crazy artist. He was a fan of the podcast. He was going secretly to Mabel's apartment because of his obsession. He happened to witness the crime. He thought he could make a work of art out of that. He had their phone numbers from an actors and directors database. He called the police and texted them so the police found the trio in the crime scene. He completed his work of art by framing them. He got a job at Cinda's podcast to stay close to his work of art. When Charles texted him, he humored him for the same reason.

I will be surprised if I am correct in anything of all that, but anyway this is my best try.

[Frost]

It's completely unrealistic, but I'm speculating that the blood test was a mix up between Oliver's son and Theo.  Oliver was away for 6-9 months for some project and his wife and Teddy Dimas had an affair.  Instead of Oliver's son being the result, it was Theo!  So rather than "losing" a son, Oliver kind of gains one?  Obviously, there would have to be a lot of coincidences for this to happen, but the show hasn't shied away from coincidences in the past.

[cardigirl]

I know I have said that I was just going to go along for the ride these last two episodes, because last season, I couldn't figure the mystery out, and I'm no farther along this season, HOWEVER: I'm still stuck on why the killer chose Bunny and then framed our threesome. 

No one in the cast has been revealed to have any motive.

Clearly I have missed some clues along the way. I'm not sure how I feel about there being a murderer, who killed Bunny, and a separate "opportunist" who decided to frame Charles, Mabel, and Oliver by choosing a knife from Oliver (when was that taken?) hiding the stolen painting (or forgery) in Charles's apartment along with the knife (when?) and putting Bunny in Mabel's apartment, not knowing when Mabel would return. 

If the knife they found in Charles's kitchen is the murder weapon, when did the murderer have time to plant it there? We've heard numerous times that Charles doesn't always lock his door correctly, he said he had new keys, but when he texted with Lucy and she told him she still had her key to his apartment, he said it would still work. 

I'm all confused. Not sure every question I have will be answered, because they are going to set some things up for season 3, but I am looking forward to the next two episodes. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by cardigirl

[Kiddvideo]

We should probably keep an eye on the very beginning scene when Charles is saying you can be famous or infamous in New York City (and a bus goes by with an ad for Charles, Oliver, and Mabel), and then Charles falls down a manhole.

They ended S1 with the same scene that started S1.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I know I have said that I was just going to go along for the ride these last two episodes, because last season, I couldn't figure the mystery out, and I'm no farther along this season, HOWEVER: I'm still stuck on why the killer chose Bunny and then framed our threesome. 

No one in the cast has been revealed to have any motive.

Clearly I have missed some clues along the way. I'm not sure how I feel about there being a murderer, who killed Bunny, and a separate "opportunist" who decided to frame Charles, Mabel, and Oliver by choosing an knife from Oliver (when was that taken), hiding the stolen painting (or forgery) in Charles apartment along with the knife (when?) and putting Bunny in Mabel's apartment, not knowing when Mabel would return. 

If the knife they found in Charles's kitchen is the murder weapon, when did the murderer have time to plant it there? We've heard numerous times that Charles doesn't always lock his door correctly, he said he had new keys, but when he texted with Lucy and she told him she still had her key to his apartment, he said it would still work. 

I'm all confused. Not sure every question I have will be answered, because they are going to set some things up for season 3, but I am looking forward to the next two episodes. 

Actually, that's a really nice summary of the plot this far, @cardigirl. 👏

The "secret" passageways leave room for a lot of shenanigans. 

I put "secret" in quotes, because it seems they are not so secret at all.

[Grundoon59]

I just rewatched Hello Darkness and was struck again by how weird it was that Kreps was there and talking to Lucy. Is it possible they know each other from before, e.g. he is one of her stepfathers?  I have no idea what it could mean but it is bugging me.

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

The building manager of the Arconia would have those numbers on file, possibly. Ursula? We haven't seen as much of her this season. Maybe her Gut Milk business was a front for something and Bunny caught on.

In the first season there were some passing references to an elevator inspection but on Bunny's last day, an elevator stopped and she got it running again. What if she called the company to complain and found out that the work had never been done because Ursula just pocketed the money? And Marv is a mold inspector, not a remediator; suppose he found a mold problem that was never fixed, and that's why there's so much sneezing going on?

If there was some connection between Ursula and Kreps she might have persuaded him to tank the Tim Kono investigation, even though she was innocent  -- she'd want the police out of the building.

[FGomez]

Well, my theory needs a lot of adjustment. But right now I will only say one thing.

The mastermind, the woman that Krebs fell in love with, is not Cinda Cunning. She is ...

Do you know who she is ?

BTW, after looking for photos of her, I am in love as well.

[LilaFowler]

Welp! Teddy's going to die in the next episode, setting up S3 with Oliver as the main suspect and Howard as the witness who heard Oliver threaten to kill Teddy and saw them fighting.

[Emcber]

2 hours ago, FGomez said:

Well, my theory needs a lot of adjustment. But right now I will only say one thing.

The mastermind, the woman that Krebs fell in love with, is not Cinda Cunning. She is ...

Do you know who she is ?

BTW, after looking for photos of her, I am in love as well.

Ohhh interesting, and I like the idea of a fake-out. That would make sense if it was Poppy (I’m assuming that’s a picture of Adina Verson) and she pitched the idea to Cinda and had dreams of podcast glory but now Cinda is shutting her down and Poppy is starting to frame her. 🤔 

[FGomez]

4 minutes ago, Emcber said:

(I’m assuming that’s a picture of Adina Verson)

No, no Adina Verson.

Look at that. Exact same hair, body proportions ... I can even imagine the scene. Cinda Canning turns around and smiles. But then the girl on the right also turns around and her smile is a thousand times more radiant.

She is ... come on, who else can she be?

[Emcber]

2 minutes ago, FGomez said:

No, no Adina Verson.

Look at that. Exact same hair, body proportions ... I can even imagine the scene. Cinda Canning turns around and smiles. But then the girl on the right also turns around and her smile is a thousand times more radiant.

She is ... come on, who else can she be?

Oh no! And I really liked my theory and really looked like it could be her! 🙈 😂 I actually don’t have another guess for who that could be that would make sense to be there. The hair seems to be too dark to be Cara Delevingne.

[FGomez]

She is Nina Lin.

Well, in principle it doesn't make sense for her to be there. But, on the other hand, she is a perfect "mastermind" I think.

I have a different role for Poppy, though ... I need to make test tomorrow, and let's see

Edited August 16, 2022 by FGomez

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, FGomez said:

She is Nina Lin.

Nina and Kreps?!???!
Nah.

[FGomez]

11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Nina and Kreps?!???!
Nah.

I don't know ... everybody jumped to the conclusion that McGregor is the father of Nina's baby. I always called him "Nina's lover"...  and having a baby is an extra incentive to work extra hours at Coney Island. There is no worse couple possible than Jan and Tim Kono, and that was precisely the key to season one. I only believe in what I see.

[cardigirl]

Why would Nina be in Oklahoma?  Or how is she connected to podcasts? I agree, very few people connected Jan with Tim last season, until they realized what the "sex toy" was; however, I would have a hard time buying a relationship between Kreps and Nina. And both Tim and Jan had far more lines than McGregor. 

Also, if Nina's "baby daddy" is McGregor, who Nina referred to as being out getting last minute baby things when she went into labor, he has not been shown enough (in my opinion) to have much of an impact on the story. I will call unfair if he turns out to be involved. 

[FGomez]

It is true that Nina doesn't have any evident reason to be in Oklahoma. But it is also true that Cinda doesn't have any evident motive to kill Bunny. It will be unacceptable by whodunit standards if Bunny is just a "random victim to frame the trio in order to make a podcast".

We know the mastermind is a woman, because Kreps said "she". The monetization of the Arconia is the only motive that we know a woman has to kill Bunny. Motive is very important in a crime story.

It all comes down to "is that girl in the frame Nina Lin"?  I took the only photo I found of her from behind and the match happened to be awesome. Motive and visual match is enough for me to bet for Nina as the mastermind. Now I have to build a theory around that includes Oklahoma.

[shapeshifter]

44 minutes ago, FGomez said:

it is also true that Cinda doesn't have any evident motive to kill Bunny. It will be unacceptable by whodunit standards if Bunny is just a "random victim to frame the trio in order to make a podcast".

I can accept Cinda orchestrating Bunny's death for her podcast because Poppy/Becky told Mabel that Cinda threw a stapler at her head. This demonstrates that Cinda is not above acts of violence, and also potentially gives a nice flashback to remind us of that character trait.

I'm not saying I think that's how I think it will necessarily shake out--just that it's a possibility.
 

49 minutes ago, FGomez said:

It all comes down to "is that girl in the frame Nina Lin"? 

Isn't that Cinda on the right in the bar?

[FGomez]

20 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Isn't that Cinda on the right in the bar?

Yes, but that is the left to me. I am saying that Nina Lin is the other girl, the one with her back to us. Or maybe she is Poppy?

Edited August 17, 2022 by FGomez

[Lugal]

23 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Nina and Kreps?!???!
Nah.

I would agree, not only does Nina have no reason to be in a chicken place in Oklahoma (and I doubt she would be caught dead there) she also doesn't seem to have the temperament to put up with Kreps's bullshit.  And finally, this is probably my nit-picking, Kreps kept talking about his beautiful brown-haired woman, while Nina is more raven-haired.

[FGomez]

32 minutes ago, Lugal said:

Kreps kept talking about his beautiful brown-haired woman

I really cannot say about this. In Spain we use the same word (moreno/a) for every hair color from light brown to black. Anyway, her hair color is not black ...

Would you say in the US that Nina Lin is brown-haired or would you use other adjective?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Lugal said:

not only does Nina have no reason to be in a chicken place in Oklahoma (and I doubt she would be caught dead there) she also doesn't seem to have the temperament to put up with Kreps's bullshit.  And finally, this is probably my nit-picking, Kreps kept talking about his beautiful brown-haired woman, while Nina is more raven-haired.

1 hour ago, FGomez said:

In Spain we use the same word (moreno/a) for every hair color from light brown to black.

That lack of distinction of hair color seems like a good way to keep the peace.
People can be very touchy about descriptions of our natural hair color, especially in a diverse population where hair color naming can be a stand-in for ethnic labeling.

But I doubt Kreps is sophisticated enough to make any of those distinctions (raven, auburn, etc.), hence his use of the simple term "brown" where even "brunette" would be more sophisticated (which @Lugal mentions in the post below this one is our generic hair color descriptor).

I do Not doubt, however, that Nina would never go to a chicken joint in Oklahoma. 

When I just rewatched, from the way the camera panned to Cinda in that chicken joint in Oklahoma, there was no doubt to me that Kreps and Cinda have a thing going on, even if it's just business.

Edited August 17, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Lugal]

48 minutes ago, FGomez said:

I really cannot say about this. In Spain we use the same word (moreno/a) for every hair color from light brown to black. Anyway, her hair color is not black ...

Would you say in the US that Nina Lin is brown-haired or would you use other adjective?

In the US, brunette covers pretty much the same ground as morena, although raven-haired covers the really dark brown to black hair.  Selena Gomez is often described as a raven-haired beauty.  I would personally describe Christine Ko as raven-haired, although she could just as easily be called a brunette.

[ajsnaves]

If this happened in episode 5 or 6, I would assume it was all a misdirect.  Since this happened in Episode 9 though, I tend to believe it.  Cinda has always been fishy too me.  I’m wondering if she goes and creates the “cases” to then make the podcast happen.  I also suspected that if Cinda was involved she would not do the dirty work herself.

The Poppy reveal does give me pause though.  I guess I am not smart enough to figure that one out.  I will have to rewatch I think.

[FGomez]

1 hour ago, ajsnaves said:

If this happened in episode 5 or 6, I would assume it was all a misdirect.  Since this happened in Episode 9 though, I tend to believe it.

Yes, I have to agree. I have rewatched S1E10. They had revealed in episode 9 that Tim Kono's sex toys were in fact bassoon cleaners (????). And, after briefly revealing the "solution", most of episode 10 was the comedy of Jan trying to kill Charles and all that. If they follow the same pattern in season 2, Cinda will be the mastermind ... and the "solution" will be again complete nonsense. I have enjoyed the ride anyway.

[FGomez]

I was so sure those lips are Mabel's lips... but now, I wonder ... can it be POPPY's lips?

The upper lip makes an even better match, and the lower lip can be partially covered by the mask.

And, of course, Mabel was celebrating at the attic with Charles and Oliver, that would be a time inaccuracy. Maybe the plot this season is better than I expected after all.

(the masked character is the one that Lucy saw in the passageway)

[LadyintheLoop]

OK, Ursula probably isn't Kreps' girlfriend -- though her hair is no blacker than Nina's and I think I've seen her in glasses -- but we know now that he's a dirty cop for hire. He still could have sabotaged the Kono case for her. Ursula could have poisoned poor Winnie and left the note on Jan's door because she didn't want amateurs nosing around, either.

All the confusion over the picture and the frame-up attempts and Cinda Canning might be camouflage for a far more prosaic motive. Alternately, Ursula might have done nothing worse than misappropriate funds. However, I think that Bunny's greeting to the murderer, hostile even by her standards, suggests someone she knew well and deeply disliked but didn't fear.

Edited August 18, 2022 by LadyintheLoop

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, LadyintheLoop said:

I think that Bunny's greeting to the murderer, hostile even by her standards, suggests someone she knew well and deeply disliked but didn't fear.

At least one transcript of Bunny to the killer reads:

Quote

What the f*ck do you want?
No!  
Let go of me! Let go of me!  
What are you doing?!  
Help me!

[LadyintheLoop]

Well, 

Quote

What the f*ck do you want?

to someone who'd knocked on her door was hostile, even for Bunny. The rest was for when the person attacked.

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, LadyintheLoop said:

Well, 

Quote

What the f*ck do you want?

to someone who'd knocked on her door was hostile, even for Bunny. The rest was for when the person attacked.

Yes. 
And the "What the f*ck do you want?" sounds like maybe it was someone who had "wanted" something previously, and who had been told "no."

[FGomez]

43 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

And the "What the f*ck do you want?" sounds like maybe it was someone who had "wanted" something previously, and who had been told "no."

Maybe someone that was at the bar with her the day before. Maybe someone that wanted her approval to monetize the Arconia.

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, FGomez said:

Maybe someone that was at the bar with her the day before. Maybe someone that wanted her approval to monetize the Arconia.

Okay. I'm now back to thinking Nina's baby daddy is the killer. 

[shapeshifter]

On one of these threads a poster pointed out the unlikelihood of the writers having both Season 1 and Season 2 killers being women.

So Cinda could be a mastermind of the spinning of Bunny's murder, rather than of the killing.

If this season's killer is then a man, could it be Teddy?
Perhaps his scary threat to Oliver early in the season was in reference to pinning Bunny's death on Oliver and his friends?
Maybe while Teddy was in prison some cell mates convinced him he could "easily" plot a murder and get away with it?
Okay.
Probably not.

But possibly?

[Kiddvideo]

Here’s where I’m landing on speculation: There are two mysteries again. Bunny/painting and Cinda/Not Ok in OK.

1) The artist is Rose Cooper’s granddaughter, and she was in the diner asking Bunny for the painting. She killed Bunny in revenge when Bunny wouldn’t give her and Rose the painting back. 
2) Cinda is a fraud (we’ve seen her take credit for others’ work) and Kreps is helping her cover-up the OK mystery. Poppy is Becky, but Cinda offered to make her a star, and now Cinda figures Poppy is in as deep as Cinda and Kreps are, so Poppy will keep her mouth shut.

The biggest thing I can’t explain away as misdirect is why Kreps (probably) texted them to get out. He wouldn’t have known about the Artist, her motivations, or her actually killing Bunny until he heard the call come from dispatch. He wanted them out so he could remove evidence and plant it on the trio so they wouldn’t compete with Cinda. But a lot of evidence was removed/planted in a very short period of time.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Kiddvideo

[FGomez]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

On one of these threads a poster pointed out the unlikelihood of the writers having both Season 1 and Season 2 killers being women.

Yes, that was me. Jan is a crazy woman that killed Tim and almost killed Charles basically without a motive. Not again. But a female mastermind with a male puppet and killer is ok.

The obvious option (already "told" by Kreps and Puppy) is Cinda as mastermind and Kreps and Puppy as puppets (another initially unintended pun, I won't correct it), with Kreps being the killer. I guess two puppets is enough, isn't it?.

But I will recover one of my past theories. (1) a real crime and (2) the frame-up  by separate groups:

Given that Cinda has no real motive to kill Bunny, it can be (1) Nina planned and her lover killed Bunny with the knife because of the monetization of the Arconia (2) Cinda and her puppets took advantage and framed the trio, including Mabel's needle, the picture and all other stuff, in order to fabricate her podcast.

I guess this is my final crazy theory before watching the finale.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Kiddvideo said:

1) The artist is Rose Cooper’s granddaughter, and she was in the diner asking Bunny for the painting. She killed Bunny in revenge when Bunny wouldn’t give her and Rose the painting back. . . .

I like this, but I think we're reasonably certain from the diner video that it was a man who Bunny met there.

Also, Bunny's reaction to the person that she let into her apartment who (presumably) killed her was "What the f*ck do you want?" which sounds very familiar, but could be Alice if Bunny had already told her no to the painting, but we have no clue to that happening.

 

1 hour ago, Kiddvideo said:

. . . The biggest thing I can’t explain away as misdirect is why Kreps (probably) texted them to get out.

1 hour ago, FGomez said:

. . . Cinda and her puppets took advantage and framed the trio, including Mabel's needle, the picture and all other stuff, in order to fabricate her podcast.

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

If this season's killer is then a man, could it be Teddy?

Ooo!
I have a mashup idea of these theories, plus mine.

1. Teddy or maybe Theo, or maybe even be Nina's baby daddy (if he met Bunny at the diner about retiring and the blimp so she was familiar with him) comes to Bunny's apartment, greeted by "What the f*ck do you want?"
2. Bunny has a heart attack! 
3. Teddy or Theo baby daddy or whoever runs out of the apartment. 
4. Kreps was spying on someone in the building and happened to see this go down.
   He drags Bunny into Mable's apartment for the frame up --- texting them to get out so he has time to stab Bunny's corpse with the knife and knitting needle.

Edited August 21, 2022 by shapeshifter