S05.E08: Gladiators

[CheshireCat]

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Pope helps a new friend; Deran, J, and Craig deal with the fallout from past mistakes as they make new friends and enemies.

Air date: Aug 29, 2021

[Marley]

Wait am I missing something? Why is Craig so desperate? He lives with no bills really in a mortgage free home and has made killer money in the past. They just got all the stuff back from Pam too.

Pope and the kid shit. What a joke. How will that not catch up to him.

Deran and Craig are both total morons.

I don’t understand why Craig is so amped up and mad.

I guess I missed something again how Pam and Smurf started being besties and doing crimes together again. 

This show is still making no sense and not really telling any sort of a story.

[Dowel Jones]

Has Pope never heard of Amber Alert?  When Cass's husband reaches town again, he's going to report the abduction, and Vancouver is not exactly around the corner from San Diego.

The flashbacks this episode were even more uneven than previous weeks.  So Janine and Pam pull off a jewel heist.  And burn up the escape van.  So? We already know they are crooks.  Dumb ones, too, as Jake and the other guy left fingerprints everywhere.

[Crashcourse]

While that kid loves his stoner mom, I think he's going to miss living with his dad.  

[arachne]

How many times in this episode did we hear the following exchange:

"Where is (name)?" "How the hell do I know?" 

I counted several, enough to leave an impression. It's a cheap way to show that the family is falling apart without Smurf. That and the big fight by the pool at the end. 

Then Pope returns from his mission of mercy (which, yes, is sure to bite him in the ass) and he's going to put things back together? Such sloppy writing. If this isn't the final season, it should have been. 

[iMonrey]

I concur, the whole season so far has been a colossal mess. There's just no reason for Craig to be going off the deep end over this drug money like he's flat broke, unless the writers are trying to tell us that he's having a nervous breakdown over Smurf's death in his own way. The flashbacks continue to be utterly pointless and they don't seem to know what to do with J at all. The only character that's getting any kind of meaningful arc is Pope, but unfortunately it hasn't been a terribly interesting one. 

[Triviatrish2]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I concur, the whole season so far has been a colossal mess. There's just no reason for Craig to be going off the deep end over this drug money like he's flat broke, unless the writers are trying to tell us that he's having a nervous breakdown over Smurf's death in his own way. The flashbacks continue to be utterly pointless and they don't seem to know what to do with J at all. The only character that's getting any kind of meaningful arc is Pope, but unfortunately it hasn't been a terribly interesting one. 

I have felt the same way, all of this season, but, I feel that the end of last night's show, may be  new beginning. Pope is back, and he is trying to get Cody boys, together. We shall see, I hope I am correct, or this season is totally lost.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Sooooo sick of Janine and the flashbacks!  I know it is in the can but maybe the writers are reading these posts so they don’t repeat it for the last season!!  The actress playing young Smurf is soooo off the mark with capturing Ellen Barkin’s calm, cool, collected version of Smurf.   Jumping up and down for joy over a car exploding?!  Older Smurf didn’t tip her hand and was always reading the room and I don’t recall her ever drinking beer like a truck driver.  

Pope is back and I felt like the boys suddenly realized they had to get it together.  Glad the Pope tangent story is over.  Pointless.

 

[Auntie Anxiety]

4 hours ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

The actress playing young Smurf is soooo off the mark with capturing Ellen Barkin’s calm, cool, collected version of Smurf.   Jumping up and down for joy over a car exploding?!

You’d think that the actress playing young Smurf could have done some homework and watched the past seasons to study Smurf’s demeanor and behavior. When young Janine jumped up and down like a fucking high school cheerleader after the car had exploded, I was like WHAT? Smurf wouldn’t have reacted to anything in her entire life like that, not even a huge haul on a job. This is the final season, right? I hope? They’re just embarrassing themselves at this point.

[Dowel Jones]

Maybe they're going for a huge, all encompassing "I was all a dream" sequence, featuring the return of Scott Speedman.

[sugarbaker design]

10 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Maybe they're going for a huge, all encompassing "I was all a dream" sequence, featuring the return of Scott Speedman.

If only.

AK really suffered after Speedman's departure, it suffered even more after Barkin's departure.  Two of the best actors left, who happened to play arguably two of the smartest characters in the cast, and boy does it show.  We're left with a robot, a rabid dog that needs to be euthanized and two dipshits.

[arachne]

17 hours ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

I don’t recall her ever drinking beer like a truck driver.  

No, but I see she was drinking vodka/cranberry juice from way back. 

 

12 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Maybe they're going for a huge, all encompassing "I was all a dream" sequence, featuring the return of Scott Speedman.

I've already figured out the perfect ending: J wakes up from a really bad dream, and finds his mom dead from a drug overdose. He calls 911 and reports it. The end. 😉

Edited August 31, 2021 by arachne

[TooMuchRealityTV]

15 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

 This is the final season, right? I hope? They’re just embarrassing themselves at this point.

No, it was renewed for season 6 before this season aired. Link to deadline article. Personally, I don't think I'll be watching next year. This season was painful enough. This show was at its best when the boys were planning and executing heists and Smurf was being their shady manipulative mother/boss. No amount of "How Young Smurf Took Over Oceanside" will make up for losing that Smurf/boys dynamic.

I am mildly interested in what they are going to do to Craig's family. It seems like they are hinting something happens to Renn. Craig really only does responsible and sober in bursts. If/When something happens to Renn that poor baby is screwed.

[iMonrey]

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No amount of "How Young Smurf Took Over Oceanside" will make up for losing that Smurf/boys dynamic.

Yeah, and I don't know in what universe you fire your show's biggest star and replace her with somebody nobody gives a shit about. 

The show claims they just wanted to "shake things up" and keep it interesting but notice they didn't kill off any of the male leads, they killed off an older woman and replaced her with a younger, sexier version. Regardless of their true motives, the optics are terrible.

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If/When something happens to Renn that poor baby is screwed.

Maybe she can go live with Lena.

[Chaos Theory]

I do think the optics of killing Smurf off were terrible but in large part because the story just didn’t work.   Honestly “young Smurf” just isn’t working and I don’t think it has anything to do with the actress playing her.  It’s just a bad storyline with no point.   It not really saying anything particularly new about the character.   We know she was a shitty mom.  What might have been more interesting is if she hadn’t been.   If Pope’s memories of her have been so conflicted because at one point she had actually been a half way decent mom to him and his sister.  Not saying perfect.  Smurf was always a criminal but having her be……I don’t know…..something would give the past Story some gravitas which it is missing.

I did like that J and Daren finally had it out.    J is essentially right.  A lot of the mess they are in is because Daren didn’t kill Adrian.  Which is part of the reason why he can never be the head of the family.   J had “the balls” to put a bullet in someone’s head when necessary.   But the only supporter he has in the family is Pope.     If they want to survive J and Daren need to work together.  

Edited September 1, 2021 by Chaos Theory
Spelling errors

[Emily Thrace]

On 8/29/2021 at 10:43 PM, Marley said:

I don’t understand why Craig is so amped up and mad.

1) Cocaine is a hell of a drug

2) He is grieving, anger is a pretty common response. Especially for someone who isn't introspective like Craig. Someone like him is less likely to get hung up on the depression and sadness but anger can be harder to let go of because you have to recognize it.

I also think both Craig and Darren are taking out their anger on Jay. Smurf basically used her will to call them fuck ups but since she isn't there to be mad at Jay is a convenient target.

[Witchz]

I do not think that Pete flushed the coke.  He thinks the boys are weak now and is taking full advantage.  He will later regret this I am sure of it just hoping that one or more of the boys dont get taken out too.  

Pope and Craig are showing just how unstable they are and that they could never handle running things- Daren is better but still weak because of Adrienne and some of his other problems.  J is so young but has shown the most ability to run things - the boys had better hope he has not been working against them but for them. 

Not convinced the Pam issue is over yet either. 

 

[Dowel Jones]

If Pete hasn't flushed the coke, his best play might be to seek out a middleman to go to the cartel and tell them they can have their coke back.  Let's think about this.  1. The cartel loses a shitload of coke.  2. They have the resources to put the word out about any large deals being done behind their backs.  3. They're not shy about taking revenge on whoever has the coke, guilty or not.   From Pete's POV, best to just get rid of it and save his life, Codys be damned.

[Artsda]

Daren has become pretty bad. He wanted the drugs moved while keeping his DEA and secrets because he didn't have any guts. J did, and he's smarter than all the rest put together.

Pope kidnapping the kid and dad, that kid seemed pretty ok with the entire thing. 

 

[sugarbaker design]

9 minutes ago, Artsda said:

that kid seemed pretty ok with the entire thing. 

He was crying, tied up in the car, thinking his father may get shot by this maniac.  He was traumatized.  Another victim of Pope.  Smurf should've had him euthanized.

Edited September 1, 2021 by sugarbaker design

[Artsda]

He could have easily ran, throw a tantrum, refuse to go with the mother. Instead he starts helping her pack. 

[Crashcourse]

2 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

He was crying, tied up in the car, thinking his father may get shot by this maniac.  He was traumatized.  Another victim of Pope.  Smurf should've had him euthanized.

Yes, the poor kid was traumatized in that car, screaming for his dad.  He loves his mother, but he also loves his dad.  He was helping her pack but he's probably worried about his dad, too.  

While it's sad the way Pope was raised, he should be mercifully put down.

[iMonrey]

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 What might have been more interesting is if she hadn’t been.   If Pope’s memories of her have been so conflicted because at one point she had actually been a half way decent mom to him and his sister.  Not saying perfect.  Smurf was always a criminal but having her be……I don’t know…..something would give the past Story some gravitas which it is missing.

The flashbacks aren't even doing much in the way of informing the story of Smurf's maternal instincts or lack thereof. Instead it's more a series of heists proposed by and carried out by Smurf. It's just a variation on the present day stories in a different timeline. It's utterly pointless. The only real way to connect it to the present is thru young Julia and young Pope and most of the time they don't even do that. It's just Smurf, Smurf, Smurf, oh look how hot she is and how cool she acts. It all feels like vanity.

[Joimiaroxeu]

That poor baby. Craig and Renn are starting to treat him like they're playing hot potato. No, you take him! No you take him!

Did Smurf think she was going to live forever? Why did she leave the boys so unable to fend for themselves? Even J overestimated his own gangster savvy. There's not necessarily honor among thieves.

Okay, Pope is back to get these fools in line. Until he goes whacko again, or gets arrested for kidnapping. What's to keep that kid from contacting his father to tell him where he is? Then the mother will probably face prosecution too.

[Auntie Anxiety]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

That poor baby. Craig and Renn are starting to treat him like they're playing hot potato. No, you take him! No you take him!

Did Smurf think she was going to live forever? Why did she leave the boys so unable to fend for themselves? Even J overestimated his own gangster savvy. There's not necessarily honor among thieves.

Okay, Pope is back to get these fools in line. Until he goes whacko again, or gets arrested for kidnapping. What's to keep that kid from contacting his father to tell him where he is? Then the mother will probably face prosecution too.

You’re spending more time thinking about this than the writers spent outlining and writing it. That’s one of the things I loved about Breaking Bad. Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould respected the viewers and didn’t seem to be figuring it out week to week. They had a plan and an overview in mind, outlined the entire show, from first to very last episode, and stayed true to their vision and the characters.

I think the writers were caught off-guard when the show was renewed. They’ve simply run out of ideas. Ellen Barkin saw the handwriting on the wall and got out.

[Joimiaroxeu]

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Ellen Barkin saw the handwriting on the wall and got out.

Ellen Barkin didn't leave voluntarily, she was written out. She and many viewers have speculated it was due to ageism and sexism. I doubt her Twitter activity helped much either.

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I think the writers were caught off-guard when the show was renewed.

Yeah, I thought that too until I found out it had been renewed for two seasons instead of just a final one. So all the emphasis on the young, buxom version of Smurf (who looks and acts nothing like the OG version), and the Cody boys turning up their macho b.s. to 11, reads to me like deliberate choices were made to go for a younger, predominantly male audience. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

58 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Ellen Barkin didn't leave voluntarily, she was written out.

If that’s the case, it makes things even worse. Ellen Barkin WAS the show.

I don’t really care about Pam Johnson, young Smurf (who is in desperate need of some acting lessons), or the trials and tribulations of being a parent while you’re committing crimes and dealing drugs. I think I might watch the original Animal Kingdom movie tonight, just to cleanse my pallet.

[Jax7917]

I like everyone else just don't see the point of having so much of young Smurf in every single episode. We know she has a history of being a criminal, we know she is bat shit crazy. Maybe one or two episodes of young Smurf and her origins would suffice but why is it taking up so much air time in every single episode? It also annoys me that the casting for her is so bad. Young Smurf is like 6'2 and has completely different mannerisms than old Smurf. I don't think the actress is doing a good job of studying her actions, way of speaking, facial expressions etc. I watch a show like This Is Us where the casting for younger and older versions are spot on for the most part. The show should have done a better casting job. Old Smurf has such an evil look on her face all the time and young Smurf just doesn't capture that.

[wmdekooning]

On 8/31/2021 at 7:17 PM, Chaos Theory said:

  J had “the balls” to put a bullet in someone’s head when necessary.   But the only supporter he has in the family is Pope.

I got a real kick out of the little “Pope’s Pep Talk” at the end where he asked J to stay or he would find him, with the little punch on the shoulder (in lieu of a hug).

Actually, I lol’ed…