Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2023)

[tennisgurl]

I guess it could be my own bias, I am ride or die for the MCU at this point and am predisposed to enjoying what they put out after becoming so invested in this universe, but I really have no idea what the critics are talking about when it comes to this movie. I thought that it was a lot of fun and felt like a great way to kick off this phase of the MCU and as the third Ant-Man movie. Some of the reviews I read sort of just sounded like complaints about the MCU in general and not really this movie, so maybe its a victim of its placement in the MCU as it continues to try and figure itself out, or maybe critics and I just don't see eye to eye, I have no clue. I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but I thought that this was a lot better than Love and Thunder and Multiverse of Madness, even though I did very much enjoy both of those movies, but I thought that this was much more tonally consistent and had a much more solid structure to its plot. I do really enjoy that the other Ant-Man movies were more low stakes heist movies, but I think it made sense for them to go for bigger stakes and to explore the quantum realm after it became such a major part of Endgame and it was fun to see Scott, usually a more low key everyman hero, in this larger than life space opera setting. Its too bad that critics have been so hard on it, I had a great time watching it and the movie made me excited to see what comes next, which is what I want from my MCU movies. Its not one of my favorite MCU movies, it definitely had some issues, and I would say that the second Ant-Man is still my favorite of the three, but I would certainly rank it much higher than its tomatoes score. 

I think my actual real complaint was that I missed the supporting cast, it would have been nice to at least get a short scene with Cassie's mom and step dad or Luis and the Wombats, complete with a Luis recap of the events of Endgame. I get why couldn't be around much, but a cameo would have been nice. At least we got to see Jimmy briefly! 

 I can really see the Star Wars comparisons, you could tell they were going for that kind of vibe, the scene with Janet talking to those Mad Max looking people straight up looked like they could be meeting Sand People on Tatooine and I kept expecting to hear the Cantina music playing when we got to the alien bar. Plus you had all of the Rebel Alliance vs Empire stuff, the robot mooks felt very much like Storm Troopers, I had fun with it. They came up with some cool alien designs as well, especially the hole obsessed slime guy and those sentient flying phallic houses. It was fun seeing William Jackson Harper show up here, even if I wish his part had been bigger. 

The cast was great as always. Paul Rudd is as effortlessly likable as ever and I like Kathryn Newton so far as Cassie, she will be a good new addition to MCU:TNG. I love that Janet got so much much to do in this one, Michelle Pfeiffer really had a chance to shine in the dramatic scenes and the action numbers, she fits into the MCU really well. Michael Douglas was more on the support end this time, but he really made the most of every scene, he got a lot of really fun bits, especially when he saved the day with the army of super intelligent ants. Hank has certainly warmed up since the first movie, he's really embraced being "Grandpa Hank" and even showed some real affection for Scot, having his family back has really done wonders for him. Hope didn't get a whole lot to do, probably due to the focus on Cassie and Janet, but she had some cool fight scenes and its nice to see her and Scot as a stable happy couple. Jonathan Majors continues to be a great Kang, he has this calmness mixed with gravitas that works perfectly for his character, you really feel like this is a guy who can and will conquer worlds. I am not sure this Kang is really gone for good, but even if he is, we have the Counsel of Kangs on their way...

Darren Cross being the MCU version of M.O.D.O.K. is not at all what I expected, he looked utterly ridiculous but that was clearly the point. There is no way to make a live action M.O.D.O.K. not look utterly ridiculous, so I am glad that they just leaned into it. His redemption and death was played rather for laughs, but I do think that it fit into the themes of the Ant-Man movies really well. "Its never too late to not be a dick" really sums up so many of the movies characters and themes. As light and fun as they have been, there has also been a really well done thematic thread of people trying to be better people and make up for their past mistakes. 

I love that, even in this over the top space opera story, we still ended with ants saving the day. "I know socialism is a loaded word, but we could learn a thing or two from them."

Edited February 20, 2023 by tennisgurl

[Raja]

26 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I can really see the Star Wars comparisons, you could tell they were going for that kind of vibe, the scene with Janet talking to those Mad Max looking people straight up looked like they could be meeting Sand People on Tatooine and I kept expecting to hear the Cantina music playing when we got to the alien bar. Plus you had all of the Rebel Alliance vs Empire stuff, the robot mooks felt very much like Storm Troopers, I had fun with it. They came up with some cool alien designs as well, especially the hole obsessed slime guy and those sentient flying phallic houses.

I was also thinking Star Wars as the cantina is so iconic. But then drink the goo for the universal translator, to use Star trek terms, and the living ships was pure Farscape.

[Guest]

I went in keeping my expectations low but I ended up really enjoying it. It’s not going to be one of favorites but an Ant-Man movie was never going to do that. It felt like it was mostly well paced. There were some wonky editing moments and I missed some to the classic Ant-Man elements but the cast more than made up for that. 

I liked Cassie just fine. She wasn’t a standout in the way Kate, Yelena or America were but she was solid enough to have piqued by interest for the character going forward. I loved that she is extremely intelligent, compassionate and driven to help others. 

I definitely thought Hope was sidelined but was fine with that given the actress’s real world controversy. I’ve never really liked that character. 

On 2/19/2023 at 10:18 PM, Raja said:

Ant-Man and the Wasp a solid three for three likes for me. I do wonder why the three X-Cons were dropped in favor of Baskin Robbins time, did Disney make that much in product placement? They were missed. 

They do make a ton on product placement but that might not be why the ex-cons were dropped. Just before they started filming, T.I. was accused of sexual assault and human trafficking. 

[Raja]

On 2/20/2023 at 7:27 PM, Dani said:

Just before they started filming, T.I. was accused of sexual assault and human trafficking. 

I knew I was remembering something but then a quick google search on him showed nothing on a case without me being able to add search terms so I guess it went beyond the news cycle and the wiki warriors are scrubbing each other out.

But then that leaves Luis as the first among the three and his participation as number two got a voice role as a quantum world denizen. A Dave Bautista/Gunn situation  sticking up for a friend who was only accused and not convicted? An actor moving on from a role he was loved in to do something else more interesting or a refusal from Disney to up his pay?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

But then that leaves Luis as the first among the three and his participation as number two got a voice role as a quantum world denizen. A Dave Bautista/Gunn situation  sticking up for a friend who was only accused and not convicted? An actor moving on from a role he was loved in to do something else more interesting or a refusal from Disney to up his pay?

It could just be the more benign scheduling conflict during Covid. Filming was delayed for a few months due to Covid surge. There would have been a lot more hoops to jump through than normal for what would have been little more than a cameo role. 

[tv echo]

According to Box Office Mojo, Quantumaia's domestic opening weekend box office was $106.1M (three-day) and $120.4M (four-day)...

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3195306753/?ref_=bo_hm_rd
 

Edited February 22, 2023 by tv echo

[Guest]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

According to Box Office Mojo, Quantumaia's domestic opening weekend box office was $106.1M (three-day) and $120.4M (four-day)...

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3195306753/?ref_=bo_hm_rd
 

Some of the headlines are so stupid trying to paint this a negative. It opened higher than Ant-Man and the Wasp which was released when Marvel was at its peak. I’m so tired of the clickbait. 

[Starfish35]

Isn’t that still third highest opening for a President’s Day weekend?

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Isn’t that still third highest opening for a President’s Day weekend?

Yes. Behind Black Panther and Deadpool. 

[arc]

I liked it well enough, but Marvel desperately needs just more time on the scripts. The stuff that seemed so important -- that Scott knows you can't make a deal with a genocidal dictator like Kang, that Cassie's driven to help people -- just felt underserved. This is potentially really good stuff here!

There's a moment midway (?) through where Cassie leaves her relatively safe hiding spot to help Jentorra but it's underwhelming, esp because her arc goes from helping people offscreen with subtle uses of Pym Particles to helping people onscreen with full Wasp-style powers. That is, it's a pretty short and unsatisfying character arc. Or is it supposed to be that Scott needs to accept her taking risks to be a hero? Because that didn't feel like any of that had any weight either.

Meanwhile, Scott's established throughout the movie as totally devoted to his daughter, but then at the end he makes the heroic sacrifice to keep Kang from escaping the Quantum Realm. It's a great fight, as noted upthread, and it's a genuinely heroic move from someone the movie has told us has every reason to take the easy way out. (No Star-Lord snatching defeat from the jaws of victory here!) But again, the sacrifice just doesn't land. There's no moment where we see him weigh the decision and choose to sacrifice a chance to return home. There's no feeling the weight of the decision after the victory, because Cassie opens another portal seconds after.

The lighting on Corey Stoll's MODOK face just never looked right, which for me was a big part of feeling like he wasn't well integrated into his shots. The CGI face mask on MODOK looked more integrated.

Also, yeah, just generally the fight scenes were confusing as hell. The shrinking powers are inherently tricky to follow because the whole point is that Scott and Hope become too small to see, but I'm fairly sure the fights were much easier to follow in the first two movies.

This is a minor and personal nitpick, but I'm getting really sick of Marvel heroes having nanotech/etc face masks/helmets that CGI on and off. By now it's Iron Man, Ant-Man, Wasp, (and ancillary characters like Hank and Janet and Cassie), every Avenger in the Endgame time travel suits, Black Panther, Spider-Man (in the now-wrecked (?) Iron Spider suit, anyways), Star-Lord, Moon Knight, Wanda, Captain Marvel, Loki, Thor...

[Guest]

7 hours ago, arc said:

There's a moment midway (?) through where Cassie leaves her relatively safe hiding spot to help Jentorra but it's underwhelming, esp because her arc goes from helping people offscreen with subtle uses of Pym Particles to helping people onscreen with full Wasp-style powers. That is, it's a pretty short and unsatisfying character arc. Or is it supposed to be that Scott needs to accept her taking risks to be a hero? Because that didn't feel like any of that had any weight either.

I thought her arc was deciding deciding to follow her own instincts to help when her father was encouraging her not to. Scott being willing to no longer see her as a child in need of protecting and accept who she is now was part of his arc. I wish they had cut out some of the quantum realm scenes that really didn’t add much and spent more time on establishing their current dynamics in the beginning. 

The really relied heavily on the audience knowing the dynamic from the first two movies and filling in lot of details about how the five years Scott was gone impacted their relationship. 

7 hours ago, arc said:

Also, yeah, just generally the fight scenes were confusing as hell. The shrinking powers are inherently tricky to follow because the whole point is that Scott and Hope become too small to see, but I'm fairly sure the fights were much easier to follow in the first two movies.

I agree. The first two did a lot better filming those scenes in the right perspective to allow us to follow the action. This time it felt like they spent most of their time and money on building the quantum realm and pointless scenes like the duplicating Scott’s. 

[arc]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

I thought her arc was deciding deciding to follow her own instincts to help when her father was encouraging her not to.

That’s even less of an arc then! She starts the movie there and ends there.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, arc said:

That’s even less of an arc then! She starts the movie there and ends there.

I disagree. She doesn’t change who she is but she has to choose to be who she wants to be and not who her father wants her to be. All the way back to Ant-Man Cassie’s story was wanting to be her dad’s sidekick with him constantly, and understandable, telling her she wasn’t ready. She started the movie hiding it from it dad and at the end she decided to be a hero even if her dad wasn’t okay with it. 

[shrewd.buddha]

On 2/24/2023 at 2:40 AM, arc said:

 I'm getting really sick of Marvel heroes having nanotech/etc face masks/helmets that CGI on and off.

I'll second that opinion. 
Pitch Meeting Guy feels your pain with regards to the helmet removal 'excitement'. It is addressed within the first minute.

 

 

Iron Man and Captain America started with somewhat plausible science fiction to explain physical enhancements and the ability to fly. 
Now the MCU seems to have gone full-tilt into magical science technology. 
in Thor: Love&Thunder, characters were able to make costume changes by  raising their weapon of choice and, apparently, just making a wish.
At some point Dr. Strange should give sling-rings to his Avenger friends so they can instantly transport to any location.  

This is what the MCU has come to .. 
I do, of course, realize that these are "just comic book movies", but I believe that post-teen audience members find it easier to embrace movies when suspension of disbelief isn't stretched beyond all limits.
And, for me, it just feels like lazy, deus ex machina writing.

Now, can someone kindly explain what exactly  the Scarlet Witch's powers are and how they work?  (kidding)

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by shrewd.buddha
grammar & clarity

[ICantDoThatDave]

On 2/22/2023 at 4:01 PM, Dani said:

Some of the headlines are so stupid trying to paint this a negative. It opened higher than Ant-Man and the Wasp which was released when Marvel was at its peak. I’m so tired of the clickbait. 

The problem for Disney/Marvel is that this one had a $200 million budget, before marketing costs. It's gonna be a money-loser for the studio, barring some late miracle, which seems highly unlikely at this point.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

The problem for Disney/Marvel is that this one had a $200 million budget, before marketing costs. It's gonna be a money-loser for the studio, barring some late miracle, which seems highly unlikely at this point.

$200 million is an absurd budget for an Ant-Man movie. Expecting one of their smaller franchises to make enough money to support that kind of budget with all the current box office challenges is mismanagement. Not surprising since Chapek’s strategy seemed to be churning out more expense projects, faster and assume people would continue to pay. Fortunately, that seems to be changing with reports that the budgets and pace are going to be reigned in going forward. 

[kiddo82]

18 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I'll second that opinion. 
Pitch Meeting Guy feels your pain with regards to the helmet removal 'excitement'. It is addressed within the first minute.

 

 

Iron Man and Captain America started with somewhat plausible science fiction to explain physical enhancements and the ability to fly. 
Now the MCU seems to have gone full-tilt into magical science technology. 
in Thor: Love&Thunder, characters were able to make costume changes by  raising their weapon of choice and, apparently, just making a wish.
At some point Dr. Strange should give sling-rings to his Avenger friends so they can instantly transport to any location.  

This is what the MCU has come to .. 
I do, of course, realize that these are "just comic book movies", but I believe that post-teen audience members find it easier to embrace movies when suspension of disbelief isn't stretched beyond all limits.
And, for me, it just feels like lazy, deus ex machina writing.

Now, can someone kindly explain what exactly  the Scarlet Witch's powers are and how they work?  (kidding)

 

I might just be projecting but I think we're beyond what Walt Disney used to call "the plausible impossible" and audiences are finding it alienating.

And I've said this before and I'll say it again, I think the multiverse in general just makes me not care about the outcome of any given conflict.  Why should I care if this version of Kang is defeated in Ant-Man and another version is defeated on Loki because there is literally an infinite number of them, any one of which could emerge at any time?

Edited February 26, 2023 by kiddo82

[Lantern7]

I figure we've hit prime Marvel Fatigue. Weo go see the movie because we've seen the others, and it's a helluva habit to break. I don't even have Disney+ and I have never seen any of the MCU shows, and I'm still going. Quantumania was a good movie, but it just felt . . . there. Does that make sense? I'm not hating for the sake of hating. I don't think I'm hating. It's just the decline of an empire is news-worthy, and "COCAINE BEAR STEPS ON ANT-MAN" makes for a helluva headline. Quantumania is another cog in the MCU machine, and it put Kang out as the newest Big Bad. Cocaine Bear is about a bear that stumbles into cocaine. Sometimes, all we need is a bear gone goofy and vicious after ingesting narcotics.

I forgot about the broccoli people. Weren't they the aliens that got their planet blown up when Jean Grey went Dark Phoenix?

Poking through images . . . .that was a version of Iron Lad with what I'm assuming was Rama-Tut and Immortus. I feel like that's a nerd fail on my part. Looks like the MCU will use all of Kang's history. That reminds me of a "Twisted Toyfare Theatre" story where Ben Grimm embraces Judaism and goes to a Passover Sedar with other Jewish characters (as well as Kirk and Spock):

Kang, everybody!!!

[Starfish35]

Deadline is saying it’s the worst second weekend drop yet for an MCU title.  Ouch.

[cambridgeguy]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I figure we've hit prime Marvel Fatigue. Weo go see the movie because we've seen the others, and it's a helluva habit to break.

It's inevitable with anything - eventually it gets to the point where fans lose interest (at best) or become actively hateful (at worst).  Given how much content they've pumped out it's impressive how long they managed to keep their streak going, though.  Star Wars fans rebelled after the Last Jedi, DC fans were never happy, Star Trek has limped along, etc.

I also think the pandemic accelerated things, at least for the movies - a lot of people realized that they're OK waiting for it to come out on Disney+.  We (well, most of us) aren't using a VHS tape and watching on a small CRT TV - home systems are pretty good these days and more than adequate for many.

[shrewd.buddha]

10 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

And I've said this before and I'll say it again, I think the multiverse in general just makes me not care about the outcome of any given conflict. 

I don't think Marvel/Disney realizes ( yet ) that the multiverse concept will very likely lead to the loss of attachment and interest in characters and storylines. 
   Does anyone still care that Loki.version.01 died  if Loki.version.02 is still running around and Loki.version.X  killed Kang.version.08?
    If the Disney number-crunchers say pre-teen audiences want to see more silly-chubby-Thor from Earth-505  and the Tik-Tok crowd wants to see semi-smart-Hulk fight caveman-Hulk from Earth-004, then that could actually happen.  
It is an entertainment industry, after all.

Ant-Man: Quantumania and the Kang multiverse could be the tipping point.  
(If RDJ comes back as an alternate Iron Man, I am most definitely *out*.)

On the plus side, it does seem very precognizant of Marvel/Disney to realize that their super-hero movie franchise would be going through some  'phases'.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by shrewd.buddha
grammar & clarity

[Guest]

6 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

It's inevitable with anything - eventually it gets to the point where fans lose interest (at best) or become actively hateful (at worst). 

Yep. We are there. In addition to the pandemic it has been greatly accelerated by the fact that the oversaturation is happening at the same time as an increase in representation. 

With this movie I think the biggest problem is that the fandom doing what fandoms do combined with the critics doing their normal bandwagoning turned off the casual fan. People who probably would have enjoyed the movie. I’m guessing that a lot of these movies releasing now will be re-evaluated in a few years. Quantumania isn’t an amazing movie but it’s better than people seem to the word of mouth around it will indicate. 

6 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I also think the pandemic accelerated things, at least for the movies - a lot of people realized that they're OK waiting for it to come out on Disney+.  We (well, most of us) aren't using a VHS tape and watching on a small CRT TV - home systems are pretty good these days and more than adequate for many.

I agree. The studios still seem to be clinging to the pre-pandemic model even thought model was failing even more the pandemic. Disney is particularly behind the 8 ball since they were able still dominant pre-pandemic. The release schedule for this year to absurd across the board. 

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios’ Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania | Cast Unboxing
Marvel Entertainment    Feb 24, 2023

[tv echo]

What Kang Brings to the MCU | Ask Marvel
Marvel Entertainment   Feb 27, 2023

[rmontro]

On 2/26/2023 at 9:37 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

I don't think Marvel/Disney realizes ( yet ) that the multiverse concept will very likely lead to the loss of attachment and interest in characters and storylines. 

   Does anyone still care that Loki.version.01 died  if Loki.version.02 is still running around and Loki.version.X  killed Kang.version.08?

I have to agree.  The multiverse is fine for a movie or two, but as a theme for a whole series of movies?  Nah.  It is somehow too big and yet manages to lower the stakes at the same time.  

I also feel that the MCU have sold out their core comic book fans, and that hurts them.  The best comic book movies have catered to the fans of the source material.  If the core fans are served, their enthusiasm expands outwards.  If not, their dissatisfaction also spreads.

[Guest]

Just saw this today, and I really liked it. I get the MCU fatigue that others are mentioning here, but this movie actually recharged me a bit for the MCU, after some worries after the 2022 releases (Dr. Strange - good but too grisly in parts, Thor - fun but too silly and inconsequential, Black Panther - too [sorry] boring). It could just be that Hank Pym is my favorite Avenger from the comics side of things, so I'm more inclined to think fondly of him and characters adjacent to him, but I just thought this was a better movie.

I enjoyed Cassie a lot, and this lessened the sting of Abby Ryder Fortson being understandably aged out for Endgame. I especially enjoyed when she went to release Jentorra and basically turned into her dad, with the awkward stream of consciousness talking. It was nice to see her and Janet both get to actually do stuff.

And I felt much better about Jonathan Majors as Kang after this, as opposed to after the finale of Loki. I feel like I should go back and watch that again, because I think I might better understand what he was going for in that performance.

[tv echo]

[PurpleTentacle]

I don't think the writers know what quantum realm and "smaller than atoms" means. Like in the first minute. There can't be any water in the quantum realm. Not to mention all the stuff that comes after. This seems like the micro-realm at best. At the level of bacteria, not sub-atomic. The explaination makes no sense. Of course how would you film a quantum realm? But then just set it in the micro-realm. Nobody forced you to go quantum.

I know, I know. I have suspended my disbelieve for super powers and multiple universes, but this is just dumb.

I probably wouldn't even be talking about it, but the rest of the movie was just so exhausting. Probably because I'm so tired of this epic superhero bullshit. Thing is not all Marvel movies used to be this. The first Ant-Man was a heist movie. Why and when did the big wigs at Marvel decide that variety was a bad thing? What made them think we'd want to watch the same movie over and over again? I know it happened before Black Widow, because that should have been a spy movie, but was just action schlock instead...

And it only gets worse with Kang. The stakes are simultaniously too high and too low with them.

Too high because it's about entire universes getting deleted. That's just not something the human mind can comprehend, not really. It doesn't hit on an individual level.

Too low because we know our main timeline/universe is never going to get deleted. With Thanos there were threats that people might die and stay dead, that the snap might actually stick, etc. With this, nothing feels threatening.

Kang is way too mustache twirly for me to take him seriously. For example there was no reason for him not to just give Cassie back, according to the deal they had made. When the big purple guy, with the insane notion about how deleting 50% of the universe was a better solution than just snapping more resources and better birth control into existance, makes for a more grounded and convincing villain, you have a problem.

Also where is this supposed to end? It can basically only end in the re-establishment of the TVA with one sacred timeline. With a Kang in charge or with all Kangs dead. Because Kang isn't the problem. Limitless universes and the technology to delete them is the problem. Once Kang is gone, some other dipshit will come along and do the same thing.

There were other problems in this movie, like why didn't they just get bigger to smash stuff more efficiently, after all, they are super small right now, so they have nearly limetless potential to grow. But all those pale in comparison to the Kang-problem.

I hope if anything good comes out of Jonathan Majors' cancellation it's that Marvel just drops the whole multiverse bullshit and goes cosmic instead. I don't care how. Make Galactus eat the stadium full of Kangs, we saw in the post credit scene, for all I care.

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I hope if anything good comes out of Jonathan Majors' cancellation it's that Marvel just drops the whole multiverse bullshit and goes cosmic instead. I don't care how. Make Galactus eat the stadium full of Kangs, we saw in the post credit scene, for all I care.

That would be fine with me.

[PurpleTentacle]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:55 PM, MadyGirl1987 said:

I thought that spell meant that people just didn’t know Peter was Spider-man, not that they forgot the existence of Spider-man altogether?

That was the original spell, but with the second spell, at the end of the movie, everybody completely forgot about Peter Parker (and I think also Spiderman). Even his two best friends didn't know him anymore.

On 2/25/2023 at 2:00 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

At some point Dr. Strange should give sling-rings to his Avenger friends so they can instantly transport to any location.  

You do need an aptitute for magic and some training to use them. So not all Avangers could use them, but some should qualify, that is true.

On 2/26/2023 at 5:28 AM, ICantDoThatDave said:

The problem for Disney/Marvel is that this one had a $200 million budget, before marketing costs. It's gonna be a money-loser for the studio, barring some late miracle, which seems highly unlikely at this point.

That's probably around $400 million with marketing. It made $474 million, but you have to subtract distributer and cinema cuts from that. So yeah, this lost money at the box office. I assume it will eke out a little profit when home media sales are factored in, but I don't think this is where Disney wants to be with its MCU movies.

On 2/26/2023 at 6:16 PM, Dani said:

Quantumania isn’t an amazing movie but it’s better than people seem to the word of mouth around it will indicate. 

I disagree. I think it's about as "meh" as critics and word of mouth made it seem. I'm very glad I didn't make a trip to the cinema for it. It was fine watching it on my couch, but had I spent time and a lot of extra money to see it in a theater, I would have been extremely annoyed.

On 3/6/2023 at 2:56 AM, rmontro said:

I have to agree.  The multiverse is fine for a movie or two, but as a theme for a whole series of movies?  Nah.  It is somehow too big and yet manages to lower the stakes at the same time.  

I read your post after I made mine above and yet we seem to have the same take in this regard. So there must be something to it.

[arc]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I don't think the writers know what quantum realm and "smaller than atoms" means.

This is actually a longstanding MU concept from long before there was an MCU. In fact, if the first micro-universe appeared in 1943, it not only predates Atlas being renamed to Marvel, it predates Timely being renamed to Atlas!

the Fandom wiki:

Quote

A Microverse is a dimension that can be reached from the Earth dimension by shrinking with Pym Particles and thus compressing the person's matter to a certain point, thereby forcing it through an artificially created nexus into the other universe. The Microverses were once erroneously believed to exist within atoms. They are all described as parallel dimensions, rather than universes within universes.

At some point Marvel entered into a licensing deal with a toy company for Micronauts (which itself was licensed from a toy line in Japan!). They subsumed their Microverse concept into this, so after they lost the Micronauts license, they lost (or assumed they lost) the rights to use the Microverse word, which is why the concept still exists in the MU but the MCU and MU have started calling it the "Quantum Realm".

[PurpleTentacle]

12 hours ago, arc said:

This is actually a longstanding MU concept from long before there was an MCU. In fact, if the first micro-universe appeared in 1943, it not only predates Atlas being renamed to Marvel, it predates Timely being renamed to Atlas!

Weirdly knowing that this is 80 year old bullshit doesn't change my mind about it being bullshit. ;D

But that is interesting trivia and at least they tried to explain things by saying it's another universe, you enter by being shrunk very far, not just you being smaller than atoms. So I'd actually say, it used to be less bullshit and now it's more bullshit, at least how they explained it in the movie.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[kiddo82]

I think using the term "MCU fatigue" to describe the overall reception of this movie is a little insulting to be frank.  The term takes agency away from the individual to discern between a good offering, a poor offering, and something in between.  I think fans in general will show up for something that's fun and well done, even if it is more of a retread than not.  That said, I get why this movie hasn't been well received.  

[BetterButter]

 

[Spartan Girl]

16 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

 

I too would rather have Luis narrate Phase 5.

[Lantern7]

“Gritty’s colonoscopy.” So wrong, so funny.

[tv echo]

[Kel Varnsen]

Watched it tonight and thought it was somewhere between ok and good but not great. The whole quantum realm was all CGI with characters we have never really met before so it was hard to car about it. And knowing there are an infinite number of Kang's makes it hard to care if this one gets stopped. Plus there were a few things that didn't really make sense and bugged me. 

Like at any point if Scott wanted to leave the QR couldn't he just turn on his rebigulator and go back to normal size like he did in the first movie when he went quantum. Sure that option isn't there for Hank and Janet, but he could go back to his lab and get stuff to help them.

Also if Janet knew that there was bad things like Kang in the QR why was she ok with Scott going there in the post credits scene of the 2nd movie (right before she got dusted). On the plus side Michelle Pfeiffer still looks amazing.

Lastly how do you screw up an ice cream cake? It's just a big block of ice cream with some icing and other decorations around it.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Kel Varnsen

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Lastly how do you screw up an ice cream cake? It's just a big block of ice cream with some icing and other decorations around it.

I’ve never had an ice cream cake that was just a decorated block of ice cream. 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

I’ve never had an ice cream cake that was just a decorated block of ice cream. 

What was it? It was just my wife's birthday and I got her an ice cream cake from a local ice cream shop. It was awesome. But really it was just a giant cylinder of ice cream on top of a Graham cracker crust with some kind of whip cream or icing around the edges and some chocolate and carmel sauce on the top. It tasted great, but there really wasn't a lot you could screw up, since it is not like you are baking or measuring ingredients or anything.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Kel Varnsen

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

What was it? It was just my wife's birthday and I got her an ice cream cake from a local ice cream shop. It was awesome. But really it was just a giant cylinder of ice cream on top of a Graham cracker crust with some kind of whip cream or icing around the edges and some chocolate and carmel sauce on the top. It tasted great, but there really wasn't a lot you could screw up, since it is not like you are baking or measuring ingredients or anything.

Layers of ice cream and cake decorated like a regular cake. 

[Kel Varnsen]

27 minutes ago, Dani said:

Layers of ice cream and cake decorated like a regular cake. 

Interesting, I have never had an ice cream cake with actual baked cake in it. Not from DQ or Baskin Robbins or even the local place we get them from. Which is why I was surprised when Scott but into the cake and thought it tasted so bad. 

[tv echo]

[Spartan Girl]

Watched it on Disney+. It’s not the worst MCU movie (that still goes to MoM) but I wasn’t blown away. The only time this felt like an Ant-Man movie was the beginning and ending montages. Without Luis and his recap, it just wasn’t the same.

It also annoying that this is the third MCU show where the multiverse is in danger because a woman screwed things up—starting to see a pattern here, Feige. Though to be fair, Janet at least didn’t take Kang’s deal to rewrite history to her liking (fuck you, Endgame Steve, you beta-putz).

I’ll say one thing for Kang, he was definitely more sinister and less annoying than He Who Remains. But is he the Kang that’s coming, or was that one of the variants in the stinger?

Loved the teaser for Loki season 2.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[tv echo]

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 4/30/2023 at 4:15 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Interesting, I have never had an ice cream cake with actual baked cake in it. Not from DQ or Baskin Robbins or even the local place we get them from.

This got me scared because 50 years ago, I used to get a cylindrical ice cream cake at Safeway--one layer of chocolate cake and one layer of vanilla ice cream, rolled into a swirl.  I loved that thing and have always been tempted to get an ice cream cake when I see them in the freezer at Baskin Robbins, to replicate this very fond memory.  I would have been EXTREMELY disappointed if I'd shelled out for one and it was just ice cream.

But I checked into ordering an ice cream cake online at Baskin Robbins, and they have you select the cake flavor and the ice cream flavor--it looks like they have a layer of cake on the bottom, and a layer of ice cream on the top.

My swirl thing had multiple layers because it was two thin layers that got rolled pretty tight, so I'm not sure I'd be happy with BR's version.  Probably for the better.

[Kel Varnsen]

12 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But I checked into ordering an ice cream cake online at Baskin Robbins, and they have you select the cake flavor and the ice cream flavor--it looks like they have a layer of cake on the bottom, and a layer of ice cream on the top.

That sounds so weird to me. We got my wife a DQ ice cream cake for mother's Day. We bought it from the freezer that day so it was a standard cake. Bottom layer chocolate ice cream, top layer vanilla, with a thin layer of cookies and fudge sauce between. No actual cake anywhere near it.

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 minute ago, Kel Varnsen said:

No actual cake anywhere near it.

My condolences.  😀

Isn't having cake and ice cream together classic, like at kids' birthday parties?  Or was that just my neck of the woods?  The problem with that combination is that the cake has icing and I think it's a little too much when paired with ice cream.  My Safeway swirl was just cake and ice cream, no icing, and just perfect (even to a sugar fiend like me).

Dang.  Now I want one. 

 

[kiddo82]

I've never had an ice cream cake that wasn't just ice cream.  Crunchies aside, which are awesome, I've actually never understood the big deal about them even as a kid.  I'm like "if you want ice cream just eat ice cream.  Why does it need to be in cake form?"

 

So yeah, in regards to the movie, count me as someone who didn't understand how one can mess up an ice cream cake.

Edited May 19, 2023 by kiddo82

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

My condolences.  😀

No it's ok. The great thing about an all ice cream, ice cream cake is that when you want one you can get a giant one and as long as it's in the freezer you don't really have to worry about it going stale like a regular cake.