The Winchesters Anticipation

[Aithne]

The show will do fine. I think there certainly is an effort going on now to flood social media with negative reactions for various interests (some people, for example, are pissed that Mary and John might be portrayed sympathetically). But the general base of viewers for these shows is much bigger than the people who spam their opinions online, and once it airs, it's gonna find its audience. If that audience doesn't include these folks, that's cool too. 

[Nick24]

It's really interesting, where is Dean here. I do not think, that it is Heaven, because it looks.. awful?....Oh, idea. Maybe it is really Heaven, but Jack's Heaven sucks so much and by the end of the prequel Dean will find a way to create new perfect Heaven? It would be cool.

 

[FlickChick]

3 hours ago, Nick24 said:

Hello, everyone. I am new here. I was binge-watching SPN for the 1st time after the series ended, so I never had a chance to participate in discussions about SPN.

Welcome! You might enjoy going through each episode (in the better years) and seeing what others think and had to say.

Re: Dabb and Berens: there are a great deal of us who share your opinions on those two twits. And Singer as well, but he isn't a writer, so a little less involved in the trash. Some, myself included, call Dabb "Badd" which we feel is more apt.

[Lastcall]

4 hours ago, goyour-own-way said:

If The Winchesters rips up the last few seasons of SPN I wouldn't be upset at all! Then maybe we could get the limited series reboot in a few years and have a more satisfying series finale (a girl can dream!)

Jensen has been extremely consistent on his future Supernatural plans. He's been pushing a short order reunion for two years now. The only change is where and who many eps. He use to say wait 3 or 5 years, then a 6 to 8 episode Netflix or hulu series. His latest comment was a 10 episode order for HBOMax once everything settles down (the CW sale and the WBD purge) in the vein of True Detective. If the Winchesters is a hit and makes money then we are getting a season 16.

I don't think Jensen is taking that for granted though. I bet he knows this could be the last time he gets to play Dean and he will make the most out of what they have given him. He will probably throw everything he wants to say about Dean or clean up things from the mothership this season. Dean's mission is set up like a Film Noir detective story and narration is a staple of that genre. Even if Dean is only in the episodes for a minute or two, if the show gets 20 episodes, that's like a bonus Dean episode. So this series will check a lot of boxes for him, Dean gets a story, he rehabilitates John and Mary, and it can set up a Sam and Dean show in the future. 

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, Lastcall said:

If the Winchesters is a hit and makes money then we are getting a season 16.

 

I'm gonna pray for it!

But reading different threads here, I got the feeling, that JP might be a big problem in it. AFAIK, he was superhappy with 15.20. I just read one of his interviews. I wish I hadn't.

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nick24
another mistake

[gonzosgirrl]

7 hours ago, goyour-own-way said:

In my opinon, "canon" is just  the buzzword JP stans are using to criticize the show because they're still bitter about what happened when the prequel was announced last year. I  wish they'd just let it go, but alas.

"It's not about hating on Jensen, it's only about the integrity of the show."

Narrator: It was never about the integrity of the show.

[BornToDie]

Implying that JP stans  were the only ones criticizing the show is completely disingenuous.

[goyour-own-way]

3 hours ago, BornToDie said:

Implying that JP stans  were the only ones criticizing the show is completely disingenuous.

You’re right, they’re not the only ones. But they do seem to be a large part. Just read the comments under any tweet about The Winchesters. 

It’s just silly to criticize the show before it’s even aired. You can be skeptical, sure, but you (general you) don’t know how they’re going to address canon so you can’t criticize it yet.

[Nick24]

I have a question.

Do we know already the writers team of the prequel? I doubt, that Robbie is gonna write all the episodes himself.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

"canon" is just  the buzzword JP stans are using to criticize the show

I am not a JP stan and I remain very skeptical of this show. That trailer did absolutely nothing for me, it looks like a typical teen/young person CW show. It doesn't feel remotely Supernatural-ish to me. And despite the many issues I had with Supernatural as it went on, I do find the potential changes to canon for this prequel to be a bit questionable. That's not a buzzword to me nor does it mean that I'm someone's stan.

Quote

Implying that JP stans  were the only ones criticizing the show is completely disingenuous.

Exactly and agreed. Honestly I'm rather exhausted by this whole taking sides narrative.

[Lastcall]

22 hours ago, goyour-own-way said:

I've questioned that a few times now, how people can complain so much about canon when SPN violated it's own canon so many times and Chuck basically threw it all away, so far no one has given me an answer. In my opinon, "canon" is just  the buzzword JP stans are using to criticize the show because they're still bitter about what happened when the prequel was announced last year. I  wish they'd just let it go, but alas.

There are a lot of fans in different camps that want this show to fail. The newer Dabb fans hate John because they believe he is abusive. A larger group hate Mary after how Dabb wrote her. There are the fans that think this violates canon and rewrites the main show. Then there are the Sam stans that will never forgive the show for not including Sam. And you have the Destiel fans that are mad that Castiel isn't chained to Dean's hip. Thats just a few off the top of my head.

The show seems to be trying to win over as many fans as possible, young and old. John and Mary are straight up the Kripke versions. John seemed like he was a badass, will have his own story and won't be sidelined. I was completely won over with how he was shown in the trailer. Mary is the version I like but I'm a little sad she will end up being the soulless, Ice Queen she became under Dabb. Carlos seems to be custom made for the newer Dabb twitter fans he always catered to and twitter seems to love him already. Then there is the implication that Dean is actually in the show and has a story of his own. That will draw in a lot of Dean fans for at least the first episode to figure out what is going on. All that leaves is Sam and Castiel fans but I think its very possible we will see cameos from them. Where the show is filming is a very quick trip from Austin. 

[Nick24]

41 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

I am not a JP stan and I remain very skeptical of this show. That trailer did absolutely nothing for me, it looks like a typical teen/young person CW show. It doesn't feel remotely Supernatural-ish to me. And despite the many issues I had with Supernatural as it went on, I do find the potential changes to canon for this prequel to be a bit questionable. That's not a buzzword to me nor does it mean that I'm someone's stan.

Exactly and agreed. Honestly I'm rather exhausted by this whole taking sides narrative.

I am not being snarky or something. I am really asking you, what canon are you talking about? Because, like it or not, by the end of S15 the only canon we were left with is "Writers lie".

[DeeDee79]

8 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

I am not being snarky or something. I am really asking you, what canon are you talking about? Because, like it or not, by the end of S15 the only canon we were left with is "Writers lie".

Great point!

 

[MAK]

1 hour ago, hypnotoad said:

I am not a JP stan and I remain very skeptical of this show. That trailer did absolutely nothing for me, it looks like a typical teen/young person CW show. It doesn't feel remotely Supernatural-ish to me. And despite the many issues I had with Supernatural as it went on, I do find the potential changes to canon for this prequel to be a bit questionable. That's not a buzzword to me nor does it mean that I'm someone's stan.

Honest question, because I am curious, what exact potential changes to canon do you mean? 

If it is just that John didn't know about the supernatural/MoL/etc. and Mary's hunting, that can all be explained by mind-wipes, which though not a good way to tell a story, are canon. 

If it is the way John and Mary met, we only have what Dean has told us during SPN. Which is pretty vague and just a list of things. I don't understand how so many people take that at face value. We have also been told, by Sam, that John and Dean never spoke about Mom. Does that mean that John would regale Dean with stories about Mary when they left Sam alone? If following canon, John never shared any information unless it was absolutely necessary. How did Dean find out what little he knew about his parents? Probably sneaking through John's stuff and eavesdropping. 

Again, a lot of unknown history to be learned. John and Mary probably wouldn't have been on my wishlist for a SPN spinoff, but I'm still looking forward to it.

Also, it is probably purposely marketed to a younger audience, new viewers, so yeah, another teen drama on the CW.

Edited May 21, 2022 by MAK
Edit: Sorry same question, didn't see the other ask while typing.

[Nick24]

8 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Great point!

 

Actually, Jensen and Robbie can go with this issue either way:

1) They can use this Dabb's "Writers lie'' and go wherever they wanna go with the story and change whatever they want to and say "Chuck was lying'' and it will be canonical per S15.

2) Or they can destroy Dabb's era.

I personally prefer 2nd way, but I can go with the 1st too, at least it would mean, that I was suffering through S12-15 for a reason. 

[Casseiopeia]

8 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

2) Or they can destroy Dabb's era.

Yes!

[Nick24]

27 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Yes!

I guess we need to create a petition and send to Jensen/Robbie.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

2 hours ago, Lastcall said:

 The newer Dabb fans hate John because they believe he is abusive.

This is weird, because I thought Dabb was whitewashing John in 14.13.

IMO the most anti-John writer was Sera Gamble. Maybe also Adam Glass.

[Mulva]

That trailer looked dire, like a mashup between Scooby Do and Buffy.

[DeeDee79]

53 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

IMO the most anti-John writer was Sera Gamble. 

She was pretty much anti everyone besides Sam from what I've read. She wrote Jus In Bello and killed Henriksen and during her time as the showrunner we lost Rufus, Bobby and she turned Cas into a traitor before (briefly) killing him as well.

[Nick24]

25 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

She was pretty much anti everyone besides Sam from what I've read. She wrote Jus In Bello and killed Henriksen and during her time as the showrunner we lost Rufus, Bobby and she turned Cas into a traitor before (briefly) killing him as well.

I am gonna take it to the writers' thread. I guess it would be more appropriate. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nick24

[Lastcall]

26 minutes ago, Mulva said:

That trailer looked dire, like a mashup between Scooby Do and Buffy.

Yeah, I thought about making that comparison. John is Fred, Mary is Daphne, Carlos is brave Shaggy and Latika is Velma. They even have the Mystery Machine. All they need is a giant dog. 

I've been thinking about the prequel retconning what we have already seen and I had a thought. What if the timelines Dean and Sam travelled to were the alternate realities. They were as close as the Angels could get without changing the main timeline so they could still find out what Azazel's plan was. Course that makes Anna look pretty stupid and it raises other questions too but it could be a pretty big answer to most of our questions.

[Aithne]

10 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Yeah, I thought about making that comparison. John is Fred, Mary is Daphne, Carlos is brave Shaggy and Latika is Velma. They even have the Mystery Machine. All they need is a giant dog. 

I've been thinking about the prequel retconning what we have already seen and I had a thought. What if the timelines Dean and Sam travelled to were the alternate realities. They were as close as the Angels could get without changing the main timeline so they could still find out what Azazel's plan was. Course that makes Anna look pretty stupid and it raises other questions too but it could be a pretty big answer to most of our questions.

... Damn. That is a hell of an idea. I'm gonna think on it and try to poke holes in it. 

[DeeDee79]

40 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Yeah, I thought about making that comparison. John is Fred, Mary is Daphne, Carlos is brave Shaggy and Latika is Velma. They even have the Mystery Machine. All they need is a giant dog. 

40 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

1 hour ago, Mulva said:

That trailer looked dire, like a mashup between Scooby Do and Buffy.

 

 

Scooby Doo and Buffy were both awesome shows. Sounds like you both liked the trailer!

[gonzosgirrl]

On 5/20/2022 at 9:59 PM, BornToDie said:

Implying that JP stans  were the only ones criticizing the show is completely disingenuous.

That's a nice thought, but all you need to do is read the negative, nasty comments to pretty much every article and tweet about the show and have a look at their profile pics. They are overwhelmingly Jared/Sam/Walker/ images. They speak for themselves. There have been a lot of thoughtful, reasonable posts questioning the premise, and Jensen has spoken to many of those concerns. For some, that's enough to give it, and him, the benefit of the doubt and give the show a chance. Or not - and it's really as simple as not watching.Nobody has a gun to their head. But calling out the outright nastiness is not disingenuous, it's fact.

ETA:  Another fact: in the Dabb era, canon is whatever the writer(s) decided it was in any given week. Even if it was Jensen and Robbie's intention to burn it all down (it isn't) why wouldn't they have every bit as much right to do so as Dabb and Company did. Anyone who has good things to say about the last four years of the show , and still claims that their objections to the prequel are only about canon, is either disingenuous or a hypocrite.

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[DeeDee79]

45 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That's a nice thought, but all you need to do is read the negative, nasty comments to pretty much every article and tweet about the show and have a look at their profile pics. They are overwhelmingly Jared/Sam/Walker/ images. They speak for themselves. There have been a lot of thoughtful, reasonable posts questioning the premise, and Jensen has spoken to many of those concerns. For some, that's enough to give it, and him, the benefit of the doubt and give the show a chance. Or not - and it's really as simple as not watching.Nobody has a gun to their head. But calling out the outright nastiness is not disingenuous, it's fact.

ETA:  Another fact: in the Dabb era, canon is whatever the writer(s) decided it was in any given week. Even if it was Jensen and Robbie's intention to burn it all down (it isn't) why wouldn't they have every bit as much right to do so and Dabb and Company did. Anyone who has good things to say about the last four years of the show , and still claims that their objections to the prequel are only about canon, is either disingenuous or a hypocrite.

 

Perfectly stated. I wish that I could like this post more than once.

[7kstar]

On 5/20/2022 at 11:24 AM, Bergamot said:

I also would like it if the show went into the effect that fighting in the Vietnam War had on John, just a little bit. Not as a big storyline or anything, just as part of what shaped him. During the late sixties and early seventies, the existence of the Vietnam War was like a raw bleeding wound here, both for the vets and for the country. (Full disclosure: my father was a Vietnam veteran.)

So many options on this.  I know in our high school we had a student with a father MIA and it was hard to wrap your mind around it.  Many vets also had so many different experiences and I had two distinct experiences in college.  One I worked with. He was dark, thinking everyone was out to kill him.  The other was happy go lucky, but he was doing drugs. 

So the experiences would definitively shape John in his ability to defend himself and help him become a strong hunter.   Also since this is prior to Mary's death, he wouldn't be as hardened as he later becomes after the death of Mary.  I think this is a point that the fans that Hate John forget.

[Nick24]

Another thought about the concern for canon.

I can assume, that maybe a lot of people, who are worried about canon in the prequel,  decided to pretend, that the Dabb era never happened and block all of his canon assassinations. But imo it won't work either. The Carver era already had so many canon violations thanks to Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming, who apparently weren't interested in previous canon at all.

So, we all who cared about SPN original canon that much, imo should have just stopped watching, when those two joined the writers team for the sake of our own mental health, but still, here we are

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nick24

[Casseiopeia]

5 hours ago, Nick24 said:

Another thought about the concern for canon.

I can assume, that maybe a lot of people, who are worried about canon in the prequel,  decided to pretend, that the Dabb era never happened and block all of his canon assassinations. But imo it won't work either. The Carver era already had so many canon violations thanks to Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming, who apparently weren't interested in previous canon at all.

So, we all who cared about SPN original canon that much, imo should have just stopped watching, when those two joined the writers team for the sake of our own mental health, but still, here we are.

That's all very true. I guess I had hoped that Jensen and Robbie would have set a higher bar than The Duo and Dabb. 

And yet here we are.

[Aithne]

I don't know that JA and RT have messed with canon yet, have they? Just because John finds out about his dad and hunters in 1972, that doesn't necessarily impact the future, any more than John finding out about hunters and angels  in 1978 did. 

[Nick24]

21 minutes ago, Aithne said:

I don't know that JA and RT have messed with canon yet, have they? Just because John finds out about his dad and hunters in 1972, that doesn't necessarily impact the future, any more than John finding out about hunters and angels  in 1978 did. 

So true! This is why I'm so confused about all that concern about canon and have been trying to figure out, where it's been coming from.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nick24

[Lastcall]

19 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Scooby Doo and Buffy were both awesome shows. Sounds like you both liked the trailer!

Liked is an understatement. This is the first time I've felt anything besides complete dread for an upcoming season since the middle of season 12 when I realized what a disaster Dabb and co. were. I almost forgot how it feels to be so excited about anything Supernatural related.

I am a bit surprised by how controversial this trailer was though. I've been watching reaction videos and reading twitter and youtube comments. The John Campea review was really brutal. The biggest problem seems to be that this show contradicts the mothership. The good news is most people seem to be willing to watch the first episode. I really feel all our questions will be answered in the pilot. There will be a clear explanation how it doesn't violate canon then viewers can decide. It must have been good enough for the CW to proceed to series, so I have faith they will make this work. 

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

That's all very true. I guess I had hoped that Jensen and Robbie would have set a higher bar than The Duo and Dabb. 

And yet here we are.

But where are we exactly? 

We have a trailer.  Nothing more-and yet one small, but loud segment of the fandom wants to jump to this conclusion and convince as many others as they can that it's "truth" already, w/o watching even the first episode.

It's hate mongering, pure and simple, IMO and it's obviously working on some(unless any so-called reviewers haven't watched the series in it's entirety, that is)because of this...

1 hour ago, Aithne said:

I don't know that JA and RT have messed with canon yet, have they? Just because John finds out about his dad and hunters in 1972, that doesn't necessarily impact the future, any more than John finding out about hunters and angels  in 1978 did. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Myrelle

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

That's all very true. I guess I had hoped that Jensen and Robbie would have set a higher bar than The Duo and Dabb. 

And yet here we are.

I'm thinking maybe Robbie and Jensen are going to try and rework the stuff that really broke canon...like most of 13 through 15.

I don't think they can make it worse.

[Aeryn13]

18 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Liked is an understatement. This is the first time I've felt anything besides complete dread for an upcoming season since the middle of season 12 when I realized what a disaster Dabb and co. were. I almost forgot how it feels to be so excited about anything Supernatural related.

I am a bit surprised by how controversial this trailer was though. I've been watching reaction videos and reading twitter and youtube comments. The John Campea review was really brutal. The biggest problem seems to be that this show contradicts the mothership. The good news is most people seem to be willing to watch the first episode. I really feel all our questions will be answered in the pilot. There will be a clear explanation how it doesn't violate canon then viewers can decide. It must have been good enough for the CW to proceed to series, so I have faith they will make this work. 

Campea often has pretty cringy takes on things and questionable taste. Which is not to say people can't dislike the trailer. I myself am mixed about the trailer but at this point this is a show that has not aired yet, meaning it's a project I'm wishing well for Jensen but I have no emotional investment as of yet so right now I honestly feel content to simply watch it and either it is for me or it is not. Either it will find an audience or it won't. 

 I'm going into it with pretty much no expectations - and I don't mean that at all in a negative way, as in I expect nothing good. Not at all, I just mean I neither expect it to be SPN 2.0 and have the exact same vibe and feel - which was evidently Campea's problem - nor do I expect it to be 100 % different. 

Every spin-off show I ever liked both had familiär elements but also a different identity than the mothership. Angel wasn't exactly like Buffy, Originals not exactly like TVD, Atlantis not exactly like Stargate. If the Winchesters can entertain me and bring me an hour of fun each week, I'll happily watch it. Honestly, SPN even only managed that for 3 of its 15 Seasons.

[Myrelle]

Canon has not been messed with as yet. Not when there is precedence for YoungJohn having known about Mary hunting and the hunting life before her death during the mothership's run.

This is the answer that should be being given to all those who insist on canon being messed with, and ESPECIALLY to any so-called "reviewers"  who should know better than to use this bs in their reviews.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Myrelle

[Myrelle]

Sorry disregard 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Myrelle

[Nick24]

36 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

But where are we exactly? 

 

I am not talking for the others, but I meant, that it's ridiculous to complain about canon, no matter what exactly Jensen/Robbie are going to do, because no way they'll cause more harm, than Duo/Dabb/Singer/Berens. Personally I am pretty sure, there will be no harm, I hope for justice.

IMO those people didn't seem to want to set Dabb and Co. on fire for all harm they caused. This site is the only one where I can feel free to talk about those so-called writers.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nick24

[ILoveReading]

On 5/21/2022 at 1:19 PM, hypnotoad said:

, I do find the potential changes to canon for this prequel to be a bit questionable.

I know the big one is John finding about about the supernatural before Mary's death.  They did an episode where this happens in s5, where Angels decided to go the terminator route.  John found out stuff and in the end the angels wiped his mind.  This was during the Kripke Era.  That episode was really well received by the fandom.  If its okay for Kripke to use it in the main show why is it so taboo for Jensen to use it here?  (this is a rhetorical question and not directed at anyone) The show itself deals with time travel, AU's and mind wipes.  All canon all used multiple times.  

Nothing in the show is really canon, 

There is very little we know about John and Mary.  As Jensen said we have tent pole or way points that they are aware of and will hit.  (Someone noted the John and Mary scene takes place by a movie theatre which is canon and matches the story Dean told).

Also just because something seems different in the pilot doesn't mean that they won't hit that at a later point in the series.  Like John and Mary supposedly being matched by Heaven.  Down the road they could have a knock down, drag out fight and the angels decide to intervene then. 

If the prequel doesn't interest someone, that's fine not everyone will be interested in everything, but the whole "but canon..." thing to me is really premature because nothing is really changed yet, and if it is, its easily made canon by using actual show canon. 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by ILoveReading

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

That's all very true. I guess I had hoped that Jensen and Robbie would have set a higher bar than The Duo and Dabb. 

And yet here we are.

This is not an apt comparison, IMHO.

[DeeDee79]

12 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

There is very little we know about John and Mary. 

This is the main reason why I don't understand why so many are complaining about canon. We don't know much about John aside from JDM's brief time on the show (for 1 season out of 15) and comments here and there from the angels or old friends like Bobby and Ellen. As for Mary the most we got for her was after Dabb brought her back and rewrote her story and 2 episodes during the Kripke era. Add it all together and I don't see how we know everything. It's bare bones info, to be honest.

[ahrtee]

Like many others here, I'm not that worried about "canon" being changed.  There are many ways to explain any major changes, from complete mindwipe to AUs to ... whatever.  I also don't mind John being a nice, sweet guy here, as opposed to the later John.  After all, both John and Mary were extremely likeable in both time travel episodes, (and Mary even mentioned that, despite the war and everything he'd been through, John still believed in good things.)  That might be an interesting part of the show...watching foreshadowing of the scarred characters they would become later (even if they were mind-wiped; the potential was there in their character.)

I've always been more interested in characters than action, so if the characters are interesting and well-written, I'll watch, whether it's the John and Mary we know or completely different people.  But if it's going to be a typical CW show with beautiful young people  angsting about their love lives, even if they fight monsters at the same time, I'll probably lose interest.  What was different about SPN were the characters and how "real" they actually were.  They had everyday problems, not just monsters and lovers.  They could be wrong, or scared, annoying and frustrating.  They could be broken, but fought through. 

That, to me, was the problem with the failed spinoffs--I just didn't care about the characters they were trying to sell.  So if JA and RT can make me care about these characters and their battles, I'm in.  And I have faith that, if anyone can do it, it's them.

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by ahrtee
grammar

[DeeDee79]

9 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Like many others here, I'm not that worried about "canon" being changed.  There are many ways to explain any major changes, from complete mindwipe to AUs to ... whatever.  I also don't mind John being a nice, sweet guy here, as opposed to the later John.  After all, both John and Mary were extremely likeable in both time travel episodes, (and Mary even mentioned that, despite the war and everything he'd been through, John still believed in good things.)  That might be an interesting part of the show...watching foreshadowing of the scarred characters they would become later (even if they were mind-wiped; the potential was there in their character.)

I've always been more interested in characters than action, so if the characters are interesting and well-written, I'll watch, whether it's the John and Mary we know or completely different people.  But if it's going to be a typical CW show with beautiful young people  angsting about their love lives, even if they fight monsters at the same time, I'll probably lose interest.  What was different about SPN were the characters and how "real" they actually were.  They had everyday problems, not just monsters and lovers.  They could be wrong, or scared, annoying and frustrating.  They could be broken, but fought through. 

That, to me, was the problem with the failed spinoffs--I just didn't care about the characters they were trying to sell.  So if JA and RT can make me care about these characters and their battles, I'm in.  And I have faith that, if anyone can do it, it's them.

 

All great points @ahrtee. I truly believe that this will not be the same as the usual CW teen fare primarily because Jensen is involved in the project. I have faith that he will keep it as close to the SPN verse as possible.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

Honest question, because I am curious, what exact potential changes to canon do you mean? 

I guess I shouldn't have used the word canon since that seems to be an issue. For me the concept of John not knowing about the supernatural until Mary's death was an interesting plot point and I found it unexpected.  I liked that rather than the typical thing where the male characters past is the reason the female character is killed, Kripke and co changed it up. Mary's past as a hunter is what caught up to her.

I realize mind wipes and so forth can be used but I've always found that to be a cop out. Just my opinion and my own feelings on it.

The trailer didn't impress me whatsoever. But I'm sure I will at least watch a few episodes and go from there. I love a lot of Supernatural and I think JA and co will at least be better than the last several seasons of the original show.

[Nick24]

8 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

I guess I shouldn't have used the word canon since that seems to be an issue. For me the concept of John not knowing about the supernatural until Mary's death was an interesting plot point and I found it unexpected.  I liked that rather than the typical thing where the male characters past is the reason the female character is killed, Kripke and co changed it up. Mary's past as a hunter is what caught up to her.

I realize mind wipes and so forth can be used but I've always found that to be a cop out. Just my opinion and my own feelings on it.

The trailer didn't impress me whatsoever. But I'm sure I will at least watch a few episodes and go from there. I love a lot of Supernatural and I think JA and co will at least be better than the last several seasons of the original show.

Thank you for your clarification. But there is another issue. That wasn't ''Mary's past as a hunter is what caught up to her''. That was Chuck!God who enjoyed playing them. Unfortunately, Dabb f*cked everything with it.*

But I understand, where you are coming from

*Sorry for being rude

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nick24

[7kstar]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

I know the big one is John finding about about the supernatural before Mary's death.  They did an episode where this happens in s5, where Angels decided to go the terminator route.  John found out stuff and in the end the angels wiped his mind.  This was during the Kripke Era.  That episode was really well received by the fandom.

This was the issue I had, but with Jensen's comment give them what they want but not how they expect...It does give allowances.  How they deal with it will be my concern more than the cannon of the later years.  I don't care about the Dabb years cannon.  I'm all for blowing it up.  Many of the other showrunners had some really bad stuff.  Kripke and Carver had more successes for me but I did like a few of Sara's ideas until she went overboard and lost my interest.

54 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I've always been more interested in characters than action, so if the characters are interesting and well-written, I'll watch, whether it's the John and Mary we know or completely different people.

This is the main issue for me too.  If it is a well-written story that offers variety for everyone and character driven vs oh how about we do this for this plot issue and oops we need to change course...

So many new shows get old fast because the issue is just to check off the boxes not because it adds to the story.  So many shows might as well end as they can't get better than their first season.  The trailer has at least given me a reason to check it out.  How good is the story will decide if I stay or not.

I'm still recovering from what they did to my show I onced loved.

[Nick24]

5 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

 I don't care about the Dabb years cannon.  I'm all for blowing it up. 

IMO noone cares about Dabb's canon :) I guess Dabb himself did not care about his canon. Neither should we/Jensen/Robbie.

[Aithne]

17 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I also don't mind John being a nice, sweet guy here, as opposed to the later John.  After all, both John and Mary were extremely likeable in both time travel episodes, (and Mary even mentioned that, despite the war and everything he'd been through, John still believed in good things.)  That might be an interesting part of the show...watching foreshadowing of the scarred characters they would become later (even if they were mind-wiped; the potential was there in their character.

Totally. John's always been decent in the preseries canon - friendly and warm, but with a clear core of strength. And to me, that's important, because we see flashes of that good man in the John we know - in how keenly he feels his love and regrets, in the lessons he taught the brothers about altruism and loyalty, etc. What's complicated is that both brothers had the right take on their dad in S1 - Dean was right that John was doing what thought he had to, and that it came from fear for them. Sam was right that the way they grew up was fucked and it was bonkers that John expelled him from the family for wanting to go to school.

John is a good person who got real messed up by his circumstances, and that's the tragedy of him as a father. It loses some resonance if he was never a decent person to start with. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Aithne

[tessathereaper]

On 5/21/2022 at 3:26 PM, Nick24 said:

This is weird, because I thought Dabb was whitewashing John in 14.13.

IMO the most anti-John writer was Sera Gamble. Maybe also Adam Glass.

I hate John, I mean I hate John post Mary's death, he was an abusive, he took a bad situation for his kids and made it worse, but John before that, the John we saw in In The Beginning and The Song Remains the Same, he was a sweet guy.  I don't mind seeing the John before he became what he was.

[tessathereaper]

On 5/22/2022 at 11:50 AM, Casseiopeia said:

That's all very true. I guess I had hoped that Jensen and Robbie would have set a higher bar than The Duo and Dabb. 

And yet here we are.

They don't even have a real canon to work with because of Dabb and Co.  "Here we are" IMO is a great place, it looks like they will be creative and imaginative and I have no doubt that when it's all over EVERYTHING "canon" will still be in place. Seems some people want SPN 2.0 but it's not.  It's set in a different time, the characters have different experiences(which was true of John and Mary  as we know them in SPN as well).  Dean and Sam started off in a very dark place that got even darker.  John and Mary had their own issues(her with hunting, him with his dad missing and the war) but they were much more....liveable levels.  They weren't starting out in as dark a place as Dean and Sam did.   The show's pilot from what I can tell reflects that, yes there is darkness, there is tragedy(Carlos speaks to this a bit) but it's not as overwhelming at this point and I mean in the beginning of SPN it wasn't as dark as it became either.  And yes the characters are younger too, Dean was 26 when SPN started and Sam 22.  Even a few years at that age can make a big difference in outlook, experience, etc.  

I wouldn't expect the prequel to be exactly like SPN, in look or mood.  It shouldn't be.