S01.E09: Loyal Subjekts

[bettername2come]

5 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

As far as I recall, they only gave one to Jordan.  Yes, he used it.  But I also recall in a previous episode that Jonathan had to tell Jordan to use it for something...  That was more evidence to make me think that Jon does not have his own.  

They really need to get the ELT in watch form like James had on Supergirl. Little less obvious and easier to hold onto.

[BeautifulFlower]

14 hours ago, anamika said:

You are right, Clark and Lois would have told the boys about the X-Kryptonians. One of the issues I have with this show is that so much of the sharing of information happens off screen that it's hard to recall which characters know what.  So Jordan knows all about alt Natalie and alt Lois from Jonathan I guess. Does he know about evil alt Superman? And like mentioned above, how did Lois know that Edge is replacing human consciousness with Kryptonians? Did John Henry tell her offscreen? 

Towards the end of episode 7, Lois and Clark went into the boys room and decided to tell them both. Remember she asked who wants to know first?

[Affogato]

15 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Jon also doesn't have the ELT, or whatever it's called - the direct pager to Superman.  Lois has that; she's "armed" at all times with Clark being able to defend her within nanoseconds.  Why they don't make a third (or fourth) to give to Jon is beyond me.  

Clark can hear around the world. He wtll always have an ear out for his kids. Lois, he’s respecting her to call if she needs him. Jordan needs to call if he has power issues. Clarke can’t hear a sudden onset of x ray vision. 

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Clark can hear around the world. He wtll always have an ear out for his kids. Lois, he’s respecting her to call if she needs him. Jordan needs to call if he has power issues. Clarke can’t hear a sudden onset of x ray vision. 

This was explicitly covered in an earlier episode when the kids blew up at Clark for eavesdropping and he promised not to going forward.  He didn't hear Jon yelling for help in the RV - if Lois hadn't been there to signal him he would have been killed.

[Affogato]

58 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

This was explicitly covered in an earlier episode when the kids blew up at Clark for eavesdropping and he promised not to going forward.  He didn't hear Jon yelling for help in the RV - if Lois hadn't been there to signal him he would have been killed.

In fairness the rv was lined with lead. If he can hear a robbery or whatever in spain be’s gonna hear the kids, more than likely, privacy or not. And. Until recently it hasn’t been an issue with Jo athan. The everyone is in danger aspect has snowballed. 
 

yes i realize lead shouldn’t stop sound but superman is magic. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Affogato

[anamika]

6 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Towards the end of episode 7, Lois and Clark went into the boys room and decided to tell them both. Remember she asked who wants to know first?

Yeah, but we don't know what exactly Lois and Clark told them because the scene was cut there. For example did Lois tell them about Kryptonians being downloaded into humans when we don't know when Lois even discovered all that. Information gets passed around between characters off screen.

49 minutes ago, Affogato said:

In fairness the rv was lined with lead. If he can hear a robbery or whatever in spain be’s gonna hear the kids, more than likely, privacy or not. And. Until recently it hasn’t been an issue with Jo athan. The everyone is in danger aspect has snowballed. 
 

yes i realize lead shouldn’t stop sound but superman is magic. 

Lead is really good with soundproofing and is used for soundproofing rooms.

Which begs the question, how did Lois hear Jonathan's call for help from the lead lined RV in the barn all the way to the house?

Edited June 11, 2021 by anamika

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

I'd like to see it more. Clark Kent being called a great reporter isn't half as good as actually witnessing it, and let's be frank, in most media he isn't. Clark just happens to have a leg up on getting a story over everybody else because he's got superpowers he can use info on a story, and that's if he isn't part of the story and thus reporting on himself. It would be nice to see him walking around interviewing people and doing research and all the other things reporters have to actually do. Lois is the one who is actually doing this.

Personally, I saw it less as badass and more like what Edge said it was: desperate. Lois storming in here and causing a scene accomplished precisely nothing and only succeeded in torpedoing her credibility by making her sound like a complete nutjob. Maybe if she had some actual arguments and evidence that people would actually listen to instead of "Morgan Edge is doing bad stuff! He's going to destroy who you are! I know it sounds crazy but you HAVE TO BELIEVE ME I TELLS YOU!"

In most media, Clark is deemed to be a great reporter, rivalling Lois's skill. Granted, as you say, it is not tough to do when a) you have superpowers to assist in your reporting and b) you have an inside track to many of the biggest stories in the world because they are about what you did yesterday. But whether comics or movie or TV, shows tend to shortcut actual reporting by Clark and Lois, because reporting is kind of boring and writers don't really want to (or know how to build a story around it).

For instance, with Lana's help, Lois could have identified every candidate for Edge's improvement plan, done legwork on them, figured out how or if they had changed, etc. She could have followed up on Christie's lead that Leslie Larr and the other guy were different people. But that would be more complicated than the "Morgan Edge is EVIL" scene we got.

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Which begs the question, how did Lois hear Jonathan's call for help from the lead lined RV in the barn all the way to the house?

I'm not sure that she did, I think it was just a coincidence that she headed back out there.  She told Jonathan that she'd let him know when she was ready again, so maybe that was when she was ready.  Maybe she also couldn't find Jon in the house and got worried with a natural mother's instinct, rather than hearing him.

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, Affogato said:

In fairness the rv was lined with lead. If he can hear a robbery or whatever in spain be’s gonna hear the kids, more than likely, privacy or not. And. Until recently it hasn’t been an issue with Jo athan. The everyone is in danger aspect has snowballed. 
 

yes i realize lead shouldn’t stop sound but superman is magic. 

Actually, in comic-book canon, lead is the one substance that can block Kryptonian super-hearing. It's also the one substance that x-ray vision can't see through and that heat vision can't  melt. That's why Kara started wearing glasses when she first arrived on Earth to keep her super-senses from overwhelming her. They're made of a special lead alloy invented by her adoptive father. That's why she has to remove them in order to use her vision powers.

And yes, Clark's parental instincts would kick in the moment he sensed that his kids were in danger. That's one of the things I love about him -- that he goes full Papa Bear in a heartbeat the moment he sees one of them in trouble.

Oh, by the way, about shirtless Clark?  Does anyone still think that Tyler Hoechlin is the wrong body type to play Clark/Superman? I mean, hellooo, Tyler!

[arc]

3 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Actually, in comic-book canon, lead is the one substance that can block Kryptonian super-hearing. It's also the one substance that x-ray vision can't see through and that heat vision can't  melt.

I’m not sure if lead can block super-hearing but I’m pretty sure Supes can melt lead. Fun fact, originally heat vision was just a creative application of x-ray vision — the x-rays generated heat — until I guess it no longer seemed cool that Superman was blasting dangerous radiation all over the place so it became a separate power*. But even if heat vision was still just a creative application of x-ray vision, lead isn’t something magic that just renders x-rays powerless. It absorbs and blocks the high energy photons, so if it absorbed enough of them fast enough it would get hot enough to melt.

* also, actual x-ray vision would not work in regular full colour as it’s commonly depicted these days so that power probably doesn’t involve emitting x-rays. (Also also, the whole point of x-rays is they go through things rather than reflect back, so emitting x-rays from one’s eyes is a terrible way to send them back towards his retinas.)

[Lady Calypso]

9 hours ago, anamika said:

Yeah, but we don't know what exactly Lois and Clark told them because the scene was cut there. For example did Lois tell them about Kryptonians being downloaded into humans when we don't know when Lois even discovered all that. Information gets passed around between characters off screen.

Well, we know Clark and Lois talked about what to tell the boys and I think they agreed to tell them everything. So I think the boys would know everything that we know, in the perspective of their parents. Just like Lois said, a lot of the information they were about to share with them was classified, so I think both boys do know everything that their parents knew up until that episode. We didn't need to see the rest of that scene because we got confirmation earlier that they'd be told everything, even the classified stuff. And it might be implied that they will be sharing updates with the boys as the season/series go on. It's just that they have to cut those types of scenes out for time. 

So, what I would think is that they know everything up until that scene, and then they might be filled in on updates after that. So I get the questioning on what the boys would know from episode 8 onward, but I think they at least are aware of who the dangerous people are and what they might be up to. But you ARE right; with information being passed offscreen, we won't know who exactly knows what until it's confirmed. But at least we know, if the boys start talking about this stuff, that they were told by their parents at one point and it makes sense.

[opus]

On 6/9/2021 at 1:27 AM, kickingnames said:

 I too thought of Zod when I saw Edge’s Kryptonian suit. 

Me too. Was waiting for a “kneel before” line.

[Affogato]

9 minutes ago, miasth said:

I feel like the show is heading to a point with Jon. They specifically showed him getting turned down by that girl which would seem small in the grand scheme. However, that just adds to all the other not great things he has experienced which makes me think the show is going somewhere with him. 

 

I feel he may end up having a ‘villain turn’ without being a villain, you know. Taken in by someone, like Kyle, perhaps. 

[Affogato]

24 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I feel he may end up having a ‘villain turn’ without being a villain, you know. Taken in by someone, like Kyle was,  perhaps. 

 

[blackwing]

I suppose we might find out more this coming week, but I have questions surrounding Edge and the Kryptonians.  I don't remember the exact quote, but what was it that Edge said.  Did he say something like "did you think I would give people powers without making sure I had them myself first" or "without making sure I gave them to myself first"?

Is he a true Kryptonian from Krypton (whether is a blood brother of Kal-El or whether he is a "brother" in the sense he is from Krypton) or is he a Kryptonian consciousness put into Edge's body?

If Leslie Larr is really Irma something and the dead guy was really somebody else, Lois inferred that Smallvillians' long term exposure to X-Kryptonite makes them able to tolerate the consciousness grafting process.  But I am curious now.  The first guy that we saw (the missing son) he seemed to have periods where he knew who he was.  I don't think he was from Smallville, he was from the neighbouring town.  Kyle has been taken over but he says he "blacked out" and didn't remember his time as Kryptonian Kyle at all.

What about Leslie Larr?  We haven't seen her reverting to Irma at all.  Is she Kryptonian Leslie all the time?  What about her makes her different than the others where they have a period where they are still themselves?

 

I think earlier in the season people were saying that the Superman suit appears to be padded because there's no way those were Tyler Hoechlin's muscles.  They took his shirt off this episode, what's the verdict now?  Looks to me like his actual body in the suit with no padding?

[arc]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think earlier in the season people were saying that the Superman suit appears to be padded because there's no way those were Tyler Hoechlin's muscles.

If I remember the pilot right, he was just way, way wider across the shoulders in the Superman suit than in civilian clothes, and also much wider than he was in the old Superman suit they put him in for Supergirl.

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I suppose we might find out more this coming week, but I have questions surrounding Edge and the Kryptonians.  I don't remember the exact quote, but what was it that Edge said.  Did he say something like "did you think I would give people powers without making sure I had them myself first" or "without making sure I gave them to myself first"?

Is he a true Kryptonian from Krypton (whether is a blood brother of Kal-El or whether he is a "brother" in the sense he is from Krypton) or is he a Kryptonian consciousness put into Edge's body?

If Leslie Larr is really Irma something and the dead guy was really somebody else, Lois inferred that Smallvillians' long term exposure to X-Kryptonite makes them able to tolerate the consciousness grafting process.  But I am curious now.  The first guy that we saw (the missing son) he seemed to have periods where he knew who he was.  I don't think he was from Smallville, he was from the neighbouring town.  Kyle has been taken over but he says he "blacked out" and didn't remember his time as Kryptonian Kyle at all.

What about Leslie Larr?  We haven't seen her reverting to Irma at all.  Is she Kryptonian Leslie all the time?  What about her makes her different than the others where they have a period where they are still themselves?

 

I think earlier in the season people were saying that the Superman suit appears to be padded because there's no way those were Tyler Hoechlin's muscles.  They took his shirt off this episode, what's the verdict now?  Looks to me like his actual body in the suit with no padding?

We'd just be guessing about Edge and the Kryptonians. My unspoiled speculation is that he is housing the consciousness of General Zod, because that is the best known Kryptonian baddie. But there are certainly other possibilities, many of which are discussed in the spec thread.

All we know is Leslie Larr is the only one to have fully taken through the grafting process and to have no issues. We don't yet know if her underlying person surfaces, how long she has been "Leslie," why she changed her name etc.

Though Tyler's obviously buff, the suit is padded. He is wider and the abs more pronounced than in civvy clothing or as arc said in the previous incarnation of the suit as seen in Supergirl and the crossovers.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[dwmarch]

10 hours ago, blackwing said:

What about Leslie Larr?  We haven't seen her reverting to Irma at all.  Is she Kryptonian Leslie all the time?  What about her makes her different than the others where they have a period where they are still themselves?

I don't recall exactly how they put it but I remember a ticking clock being set for this with a reference to how it takes the host "a few days" before they fully take over. I'd assume this is so that any characters who get taken over will be able to have moments where they are holding the Kryptonian off so they can offer narrow escapes and/or have a heart to heart with their loved ones before the host body dies. As for Leslie, I'd assume she's well past the buyer's remorse period so her original personality is either long gone or an order of magnitude harder to get back than those who have been freshly possessed.

[legaleagle53]

On 6/11/2021 at 11:40 AM, arc said:

I’m not sure if lead can block super-hearing but I’m pretty sure Supes can melt lead. Fun fact, originally heat vision was just a creative application of x-ray vision — the x-rays generated heat — until I guess it no longer seemed cool that Superman was blasting dangerous radiation all over the place so it became a separate power*. But even if heat vision was still just a creative application of x-ray vision, lead isn’t something magic that just renders x-rays powerless. It absorbs and blocks the high energy photons, so if it absorbed enough of them fast enough it would get hot enough to melt.

 

I finally read that linked article, and the writer is wrong. Superman didn't melt the lead in the bullets directly. He melted the metal casings around their lead cores, which in turn melted the lead. At least through the end of the Silver Age, it was made abundantly clear that lead is the one substance that Kryptonians cannot see through, hear through, or melt directly with heat vision. In order to melt it, they have to melt another metal in close enough proximity to heat the lead itself to the melting point.

Now, in the post-Crisis continuity, who knows?

[FnkyChkn34]

20 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Though Tyler's obviously buff, the suit is padded. He is wider and the abs more pronounced than in civvy clothing or as arc said in the previous incarnation of the suit as seen in Supergirl and the crossovers.

Having seen him in that shirtless scene, but not watched any other show in the Arrowverse, I'm going to say that the suit is padded - but barely.  It helps to define what he already has, like his abs, but he doesn't need much.  I think the costume people are dressing him very specifically to make us keep guessing - he's wearing button-downs or layers, rather than a tight t-shirt, to hide what he's got.  If we saw him in a plain tight T, then I think that it would be more obvious that he fills out the suit well enough on his own.  Just my observations... 

I'll keep a close eye out, from now on.  You know... for science. 😉😍

Edited June 15, 2021 by FnkyChkn34
fixed typo

[bettername2come]

8 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Having seen him in that shirtless scene, but not watched any other show in the Arrowverse, I'm going to say that the suit is padded - but barely.  It helps to define what he already has, like his abs, but he doesn't need much. 

The picture below is from a few years ago on Supergirl in a different suit that seems to have no padding. For further research, there's plenty of shirtless photos from Teen Wolf. 

 

 

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, bettername2come said:

The picture below is from a few years ago on Supergirl in a different suit that seems to have no padding. For further research, there's plenty of shirtless photos from Teen Wolf. 

 

 

Yes, yes... all in the name of research... 

I think his arms are naturally bigger than that now though.  His biceps in tonight's button down, when they showed him from the back standing on the porch...  

[John Potts]

Well I guess that answered a lot of questions! Glad that Kryptonite weaponry really did have an effect on Clark (and Jordan) because inhaling Kryptonite really should. A bit disappointed that Edge turned out to be Kryptonian (General Zod? The Eradicator?) because I prefer Superman to have to deal with people who present a different challenge than just ones he ends up super punching, though I guess it explains how Edge is sure he can keep a bunch of supers under control (maybe incorrectly). And good on Sam for putting himself on the line to protect his family when he knew he was just a meat shield (I guess Jonathan's coward comment really got to him).

Lana’s tradecraft truly sucks. How hard is it to leak the names to Lois without Edge finding out? You chose the candidates, it's not like you had to crack Edge's password to work it out!

On 6/9/2021 at 3:00 AM, scarynikki12 said:

So Edge is Kryptonian. Laid out well. I’m not sure if the brother comment is supposed to be literal or not but I can’t wait to find out.

I think it's meant to be literal (though that doesn't mean he can't be a clone, from a parallel universe, a product of mauve Kryptonite...) as he was wearing a modified version of the "S" crest on his chest (which is usually - but not always - said to be the crest of the "House of El").

On 6/9/2021 at 7:45 AM, anamika said:

cannot Clark just park his car outside Edge's office and eavesdrop on his evil plans - that would be so much more faster than them going the old fashioned investigative journalism route.

If he can hear a bridge collapse in China, he could eavesdrop on Edge from his own kitchen!

On 6/9/2021 at 12:35 PM, arc said:

radioactive atoms don't multiply like a virus does.

But in Comic Book Science, Radiation can do anything.