S19.E19: Grand Finale

[Koalagirl]

Here’s an explanation from Arthur Gunn that only seems to raise more questions about his pulling out of the finale at the last minute.

https://www.mjsbigblog.com/arthur-gunn-cites-personal-morals-for-ditching-american-idol-finale.htm

[alalaxmom]

Just a theory, but maybe the reason WGWG's win so much is that they are not as prone to over singing as other contestants.  The over done vocal acrobatics are a turn off for me.  That isn't really what you hear on the radio.  So many contestants have absolutely beautiful voices, but their constant runs and glory notes grate on me.  I wish the coaches/judges on both AI and The Voice would stop encouraging it.  Joss Stone tried with Grace, but it didn't stick.

Edited May 27, 2021 by alalaxmom
Can't keep my blonde folk singers straight.

[waving feather]

2 hours ago, Koalagirl said:

Here’s an explanation from Arthur Gunn that only seems to raise more questions about his pulling out of the finale at the last minute.

https://www.mjsbigblog.com/arthur-gunn-cites-personal-morals-for-ditching-american-idol-finale.htm

Glad to have more info but his statement is annoying. If he isn't going to drop real tea, then what's with the vague passive aggressiveness of it all. I actually liked him last season and wanted him to win over Sam. WHAT "confrontations", Arthur?? Lol. We need more!

Anyway, he was meh to me ever since he completely changed the melody of that beautiful Coldplay song. Chris Martin was very kind to him in spite of that.

Edited May 25, 2021 by waving feather

[TheGreenKnight]

 

Just a theory, but maybe the reason WGWG's win so much is that they are not as prone to over singing as other contestants.  The over done vocal acrobatics are a turn off for me.  That isn't really what you hear on the radio.  So many contestants have absolutely beautiful voices, but their constant runs and glory notes grate on me.  I wish the coaches/judges on both AI and The Voice would stop encouraging it.  Jewel tried with Grace, but it didn't stick.

I don't think Jewel ever interacted with Grace...? Grace's duet partner was Joss Stone. But Jewel should talk considering she does that yodel mess in every song she sings, which is why I've never liked her. Grace sounds closer in line to people like Demi, Ariana, Anne-Marie, Dua Lipa, Adele, etc. than Chayce does modern country. The only comparison anyone can even come up with for Chayce is Chris Stapleton, whose sound is an outlier in country, not the mainstream. And as someone who bought Stapleton's first album, no, I don't think Chayce is anywhere near as good as him. But I agree that it's true WGWGs go a completely opposite direction of real singers--they tend not to sing well *at all*, in fact most couldn't sing their way out of a paper bag. I have listened to Chayce's duet with Casey a couple of times because Casey's vocals were gorgeous, but his almost sound like a belch half the time. These kinds of undeserved wins are always so gross to watch go down. Why do they keep casting these untalented people in the first place? There are plenty of white guys out there who actually can sing worth a damn. What an embarrassment to this show's legacy.

About Arthur, I imagine there were a lot of tense interactions between him and the other contestants. The unfairness of his presence there was probably felt especially by them. I sort of feel sorry for him, but I don't feel bad for wanting him to go either. But he or Hunter would've been better winners if we were going to get someone who couldn't sing worth a crap anyway. At least those two had some star quality despite their pitiful vocals. Chayce has neither.

Edited May 25, 2021 by TheGreenKnight

[MarylandGirl]

2 hours ago, Koalagirl said:

Here’s an explanation from Arthur Gunn that only seems to raise more questions about his pulling out of the finale at the last minute.

https://www.mjsbigblog.com/arthur-gunn-cites-personal-morals-for-ditching-american-idol-finale.htm

Uh, sorry, Arthur, but I kinda doubt Sheryl Crow is going to perform with you at your own shows. You lost your opportunity to sing with her.

This is so vague. I almost expected it to end with "You know who you are and what you did" or something.

I didn't watch last season, so didn't have a sense of him before. But his stripping the melody from a Coldplay song that I really like turned me off to him. He could have made the song his own without entirely stripping away the essence of the song.

[UrbanShocker]

1 hour ago, Koalagirl said:

Here’s an explanation from Arthur Gunn that only seems to raise more questions about his pulling out of the finale at the last minute.

https://www.mjsbigblog.com/arthur-gunn-cites-personal-morals-for-ditching-american-idol-finale.htm

First of all, the audacity of Arthur to invite Sheryl to one of HIS shows.  No dude, she's the star here, not you. 

Second, reading between the lines here, he mentions it's not the show's fault and not the fault of anyone associated with the show, but mentioned it was due to "morals".  Maybe his family didn't like the "morals" of Hollywood and didn't want him there, since last year he didn't have to leave his house.  That's just a guess though so it's pure speculation.

Also, they should have at least invited Sam, even if to have her in the audience.  Make her present the trophy (if that's still a thing) if you don't want her performing but they basically forgot she existed.

 

[ForReal]

7 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I'm not so sure the WGWG is a thing because of the "cougar" vote so much as the enormous "Country music" fandom.

I think it's more likely to be the teen girl vote than the "cougar" vote. I told my husband, "Willie won't win because the teen girls won't be voting for him."

45 minutes ago, UrbanShocker said:

First of all, the audacity of Arthur to invite Sheryl to one of HIS shows.  No dude, she's the star here, not you. 

Second, reading between the lines here, he mentions it's not the show's fault and not the fault of anyone associated with the show, but mentioned it was due to "morals".  Maybe his family didn't like the "morals" of Hollywood and didn't want him there, since last year he didn't have to leave his house.  That's just a guess though so it's pure speculation.

Also, they should have at least invited Sam, even if to have her in the audience.  Make her present the trophy (if that's still a thing) if you don't want her performing but they basically forgot she existed.

 

I don't think Arthur was being audacious in his invitation to Sheryl, I think he was trying to somehow offer a courteous response to her after choosing not to perform, which had nothing to do with her. I honestly don't see why the other contestants would be mad at him -- they are all lucky to be there, so why be mad at his good luck? Unless you were a contestant who got cut right before him, but still, those are the breaks and it seems churlish for the remaining contestants to take it out on him. He said it's not the show's fault or anyone associated with it. I wonder if production or marketing was pushing him to do things that felt uncomfortable or unsafe. His statement said his decision was due to "some personal morals and values due to unpleasant environmental experiences." Good for him for standing his ground. The time he spent on the show this season wasn't doing his career any good anyway.

[JayDub1987]

4 hours ago, Koalagirl said:

Here’s an explanation from Arthur Gunn that only seems to raise more questions about his pulling out of the finale at the last minute.

https://www.mjsbigblog.com/arthur-gunn-cites-personal-morals-for-ditching-american-idol-finale.htm

Him inviting a legend like Crow to one of his local bingo hall shows is laughable. The guy obviously thinks he's way better than he is. Not only can he not get through a conversation without twitching and looking like he did a line of something, he doesn't sing that well. I'm still not sure how he got voted back in.

[TheGreenKnight]

I thought Arthur was trying to be humble in regards to Sheryl, too, although he said it the wrong way. His message showed again that perhaps he's not great at speaking? I think he just meant to acknowledge Crowe, to make sure it was known his absence wasn't intended to cast aspersions at her, not make himself out to be bigger than he is. YMMV.

[sempervivum]

1 hour ago, ForReal said:

I think it's more likely to be the teen girl vote than the "cougar" vote.

I haven't read anything about Idol's demographics in a long time, but I do remember that it started skewing much older after the first 5 or so seasons. The average viewer was a 54 year old white woman a few years ago, IIRC, and The Voice is the same.

If teen girls were a big part of the audience, I would have expected Hunter to have out-lasted Arthur.

[ljenkins782]

8 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I thought Arthur was trying to be humble in regards to Sheryl, too, although he said it the wrong way. His message showed again that perhaps he's not great at speaking? I think he just meant to acknowledge Crowe, to make sure it was known his absence wasn't intended to cast aspersions at her, not make himself out to be bigger than he is. YMMV.

Agreed. Arthur's grasp of English has caused some awkward moments here and there, especially when speaking off the cuff. I suspect he put the reference to where he was playing less as a genuine invitation and more to promote the booking. He knew his absence would cause questions, which it obviously did, so he put the info where people would be reading. It certainly didn't give any illuminating details about the actual reasons for his absence! 

The result was inevitable but I didn't care that much who won and liked Chayce, so good for him. This was an enjoyable season and I got some new songs for my playlists, that's about all I can hope for from this weird abbreviated AI format. The Finneas episode, in particular, sparked some really great music, Grace & Willie's duet might be my favorite song of the season.

I hope both Grace and Willie find some success somewhere, they both have lovely voices for recording. The judges could not have pushed harder for Willie to go into Christian music. They were so obvious about it that I half expected a banner for K-Love to run under him every time he sang. That could be a good avenue for him, most of the male singers on channels like K-Love sound identical to each other and not a one of them can sing.

[pezgirl7]

I find some of the criticism of Chayce on this thread pretty ridiculous. The viewers pick the winner, so whatever that viewership is, the most popular person won. You might not think they are deserving, but the show is not being ruined by having the most popular contestant win. I doubt changing the type of singers that get put through will affect the demographic, thereby making the winner more deserving somehow. I thought there was a pretty diverse group of contestants this year, so if the viewing audience wanted someone other than a WGWG to win, it could have happened. Personally I'm glad Chayce won. I like his gravelly voice, and his songwriting. I'd listen to his music, which I can't say for the other contestants.

I'm not sure what to make of Arthur's statement, but because it happened last minute, I'm thinking there must have been some kind of confrontation with someone that sort of pushed him over the edge. I get the sense he wasn't welcomed this season from the very beginning. 

[TheGreenKnight]

On the contrary, I think the few viewers they have left that keep the demo high enough for the show not to be entirely irrelevant tune out faster from the predictable outcomes of the least talented contestants winning over and over again. Especially in cases, like you described, where the majority of the contestants in a season were pretty good, for one of the few weak ones to come out on top makes it even more laughable. It's like when Taylor Hicks beat the likes of Katharine McPhee, Elliot Yamin, Chris Daughtry, Kellie Pickler. And, admittedly, yes, I do find it a little disgraceful to have someone subpar mentioned in the same category as people like Carrie Underwood, Maddie Poppe, David Cook, etc. To me, this season's outcome is like if Wade Cota had won two years ago--Chayce sounds similarly Nickelback-esque to Wade, only he's more attractive which matters more, I guess.

I think if they only cast white guys who were talented (think David Cook, Adam Lambert, Clark Beckham, etc.), there would probably be less anger when they went on to win. I don't like Beckham much at all, although he seems like a nice guy on a personal level. But I'd be saying the same things even if someone I actually liked like Hunter won despite not deserving it.

[ForReal]

1 hour ago, pezgirl7 said:

I'm not sure what to make of Arthur's statement, but because it happened last minute, I'm thinking there must have been some kind of confrontation with someone that sort of pushed him over the edge. I get the sense he wasn't welcomed this season from the very beginning. 

I wonder if he suffers from some kind of extreme anxiety. That could explain a lot.

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, waving feather said:

WHAT "confrontations", Arthur?? Lol. We need more!

Ugh, seriously. I hate when people tease the tea but don't actually spill it!

5 hours ago, UrbanShocker said:

Also, they should have at least invited Sam, even if to have her in the audience.  Make her present the trophy (if that's still a thing) if you don't want her performing but they basically forgot she existed.

If Sam has cut all ties to AI, like it seems she has based on someone saying she removed all mentions of it from her social media, then it seems like she probably didn't actually want to come back.

[MarylandGirl]

So, I know people are comparing Chayce to Nickelback, in terms of talent. But Nickelback was also quite successful. And did quite well for themselves (presumably, if they had a good deal with their label) and also for their label. So that actually suggests he *would* be successful. Success isn't just about raw talent. I feel like he has the full package, in seeming very comfortable on stage (unlike Grace, or Cassandra), being a fairly good songwriter, etc. So he would be marketable without too much effort by the record label.

Of course, I'm saying this as a white, 44-year-old mother--does that make me a cougar? (I mean, my husband is a whole 8 months younger than me!) I'm in a mid-Atlantic state, so not the south. I'm more of an alternative/indie fan than country fan (I like a bit of alternative country, like Lucinda Williams), but I'd also buy stuff from Chayce before I'd buy it from Willie or Grace. (I'd also likely buy music from Hunter and Cassandra. And Murphy).

[Diana Berry]

11 hours ago, Koalagirl said:

Here’s an explanation from Arthur Gunn that only seems to raise more questions about his pulling out of the finale at the last minute.

https://www.mjsbigblog.com/arthur-gunn-cites-personal-morals-for-ditching-american-idol-finale.htm

It does sound like it would be musical director/ direction with the duet.

oh so he’s going to let Sheryl Perform with him.  How nice of him. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Diana Berry

[colorsblend]

Further explanation of what happened with Arthur:

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by colorsblend

[LennieBriscoe]

7 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I find some of the criticism of Chayce on this thread pretty ridiculous. The viewers pick the winner, so whatever that viewership is, the most popular person won. You might not think they are deserving, but the show is not being ruined by having the most popular contestant win. I doubt changing the type of singers that get put through will affect the demographic, thereby making the winner more deserving somehow. I thought there was a pretty diverse group of contestants this year, so if the viewing audience wanted someone other than a WGWG to win, it could have happened. Personally I'm glad Chayce won. I like his gravelly voice, and his songwriting. I'd listen to his music, which I can't say for the other contestants.

I'm not sure what to make of Arthur's statement, but because it happened last minute, I'm thinking there must have been some kind of confrontation with someone that sort of pushed him over the edge. I get the sense he wasn't welcomed this season from the very beginning. 

 

We all know "American Idol" is ultimately  a popularity contest.

But not during the multi-audition stage when singers such as Murphy and Jingles Guy, deemed fine enough for the Finale show, are rejected by the judges. 

Moreover, that something is a given (e.g., viewers determine the victor) does not preclude analysis and/or criticism of that given. 

Finally, I disagree about the show's "not being ruined by having the most popular contestant  win," an assertion that seems obvious on its face but which the current anemic and truncated version, as well as the "Contract Maybe" "prize,"  of "Idol" would belie. 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by LennieBriscoe

[TheGreenKnight]

Caleb’s alterego on The Voice got blocked at 2nd. The winner, Cam, actually performed a song that Willie did (“Stand Up”). It’s almost like they had the happy ending version of whatever Idol tried to do this year, lol. Take note, Idol. 5-person finales.

[proserpina65]

On 5/24/2021 at 11:12 AM, Jillybean said:

Another WGWG who will fade into post-Idol oblivion.

Country winners tend to do well post-Idol, at least initially.  So he'll probably be fine.  For how long is a different question.

On 5/24/2021 at 7:22 PM, Vermicious Knid said:

Can we get at least one singing talent show without country, dammit?

Why?  It's a big segment of the music business, so why would any television singing contest want to eliminate that potential market for viewers?

But let's face it: AI has never really been just a singing competition.  Once you rely on viewers voting to determine who advances and wins, which AI always has, it becomes a popularity contest.

23 hours ago, ForReal said:

I don't think Arthur was being audacious in his invitation to Sheryl, I think he was trying to somehow offer a courteous response to her after choosing not to perform, which had nothing to do with her.

He was displaying an incredibly inflated sense of his own worth with that invitation.  He came across as an entitled ass in that statement.

[ForReal]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

He was displaying an incredibly inflated sense of his own worth with that invitation.  He came across as an entitled ass in that statement.

I respectfully disagree. He seems socially awkward and his English isn't great. I don't think he intended to come across as arrogant.

[MarylandGirl]

21 minutes ago, ForReal said:

I respectfully disagree. He seems socially awkward and his English isn't great. I don't think he intended to come across as arrogant.

I agree. I imagine he was trying to present it like, "Nothing against you, Sheryl Crow, I'd perform with you anytime!" Like, he should have had someone (a native English speaker, ideally) look at his post before he made it, to see how he might be coming across. I mean, I think that's a good idea for native English speakers posting something like that, too. Especially if it's something that could potentially affect one's future career. (Then again, I work as an editor, so I may be somewhat biased in the benefits of someone looking over your work before you publish/post it!)

[ljenkins782]

Rewatching the finale (as background noise) and while I now know that he was a replacement for Arthur Gunn, I do wonder if someone on the show has plans for Graham DeFranco in some capacity. Rarely has an eliminated contestant gotten so much airtime throughout a season. He seems quite at home on TV, I could see him making a go of it as an actor.

Also, Chayce seems to be mugging his way through the entire finale, guess he knew he had this one in the bag before the results were read. 

[peachmangosteen]

9 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Also, Chayce seems to be mugging his way through the entire finale, guess he knew he had this one in the bag before the results were read. 

Yea, he really looked like he already knew he was winning.

And I agree with you about Graham. TPTB seem to love him, so I wonder if he'll stay involved with Idol in some way though rather than branch out.

[pezgirl7]

40 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Also, Chayce seems to be mugging his way through the entire finale, guess he knew he had this one in the bag before the results were read. 

I think he also could have just been happy to be there and having fun. I think he was the only one who didn't seem that stressed out, because he knew he'd be fine even if he didn't win the show. I liked how Graham kept looking at Chayce while he was singing with Sheryl, and Chayce seemed to really be getting a kick out of it!

[Vermicious Knid]

I find country aurally annoying, as well as the entire genre being racist and sexist.

[Blissfool]

4 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

 I do wonder if someone on the show has plans for Graham DeFranco in some capacity. Rarely has an eliminated contestant gotten so much airtime throughout a season. He seems quite at home on TV, I could see him making a go of it as an actor.

I wonder if his family owns a plane and he flew himself to the different locations; not on American Idol's dime. 

[waving feather]

7 hours ago, ForReal said:

I respectfully disagree. He seems socially awkward and his English isn't great. I don't think he intended to come across as arrogant.

I guess we will never know for sure. But I do think his English is better than we give him credit for. And he isn't stupid. I sensed it immediately when he interrupted Katy when she critiqued his Coldplay performance, telling him (in a diplomatic way) that she wished he did not change the melody. She did not finished speaking completely before he interrupted her with a quick "thanks". It would buy that he did not understand what she is saying if he waited for her to finish speaking. I interpreted it as him being rather passive aggressive and being dismissive of her criticism.

[Diana Berry]

Another article about AG.  It makes you wonder why they invited him if they were already worried about him showing up. 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/arthur-gunns-bizarre-finale-night-ghosting-is-the-most-epic-idol-story-of-all-time-075649295.html?guccounter=1

 

[Blissfool]

The article says he refused to come out 5 minutes before the Sheryl Crow performance. He wasn't with Fall Out Boy either, though. 

[peachmangosteen]

I suspect there are rumors that Arthur is 'difficult to work with' because he doesn't just do whatever TPTB tell him to do lol. It might have been easier last season since they were all at home and TPTB weren't as hands-on.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

1 hour ago, Blissfool said:

The article says he refused to come out 5 minutes before the Sheryl Crow performance. He wasn't with Fall Out Boy either, though. 

5 mins notice for Graham to come from the audience and sing with her with NO rehearsal?!?  Do I have that right?  If so, then he is amazing!  I thought Sheryl looked a bit like a deer in the headlights during the song but Graham seemed so calm and confident during it....wow.

[peachmangosteen]

I thought you could easily tell that Graham wasn't given much notice tbh. I mean, he sounded good but he made some mistakes and his face said 'lol I didn't rehearse at all' to me.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

36 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I thought you could easily tell that Graham wasn't given much notice tbh. I mean, he sounded good but he made some mistakes and his face said 'lol I didn't rehearse at all' to me.

I didn’t know the song so didn’t notice the mistakes but do remember him smiling at times.  I think he was very gutsy to just jump in and do it anyway!

[MarylandGirl]

2 hours ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

5 mins notice for Graham to come from the audience and sing with her with NO rehearsal?!?  Do I have that right?  If so, then he is amazing!  I thought Sheryl looked a bit like a deer in the headlights during the song but Graham seemed so calm and confident during it....wow.

I imagine she was thinking, "Who is this guy???" He just looked like he was having a good time.

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

5 mins notice for Graham to come from the audience and sing with her with NO rehearsal?!?  Do I have that right?  If so, then he is amazing!  I thought Sheryl looked a bit like a deer in the headlights during the song but Graham seemed so calm and confident during it....wow.

I chalked Sheryl's expression up to the Botox in her forehead. Shiny as hell and completely smooth, looked fresh injections.

Graham has that John Belushi crossed with Seth Rogen vibe, he seems perpetually relaxed and happy to be on stage whenever he gets a chance.

Quote

I wonder if his family owns a plane and he flew himself to the different locations; not on American Idol's dime. 

Even so, the show went out of its way to shout him out whenever he popped up somewhere, which they wouldn't necessarily do for everyone. I feel like I remember thirsty ass Kimberly Caldwell popping up in the audience a lot back in S2 or after and they'd just pan right past her attempts to get on camera, lol.

[proserpina65]

On 5/26/2021 at 3:01 PM, ForReal said:

I respectfully disagree. He seems socially awkward and his English isn't great. I don't think he intended to come across as arrogant.

To you, he didn't, but to me, that statement is incredibly entitled, especially the invitation for Sheryl Crow to sing at his concert.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

22 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

To you, he didn't, but to me, that statement is incredibly entitled, especially the invitation for Sheryl Crow to sing at his concert.

Especially when he decided to be a no show a few minutes ahead of their live performance leaving her and others scrambling!  So unprofessional.   

[peachmangosteen]

I'm not willing to 100% believe the account of someone who wasn't there. He said he got his info from Graham but Graham himself likely doesn't even have all the details. 

But also, like I said before, I do think Arthur seems very much like someone who just didn't give a flying fuck about TPTB so!

[JayDub1987]

On 5/25/2021 at 3:37 PM, ljenkins782 said:

 

I hope both Grace and Willie find some success somewhere, they both have lovely voices for recording. The judges could not have pushed harder for Willie to go into Christian music. They were so obvious about it that I half expected a banner for K-Love to run under him every time he sang. That could be a good avenue for him, most of the male singers on channels like K-Love sound identical to each other and not a one of them can sing.

Contemporary Christian Music (in general) does suck. That's why I think Willie could find so much success there. A large part of the solo male artists that get played on those stations sound identical, terrible or both. I think that Willie could stand out and really make a name for himself.

[LennieBriscoe]

On 5/27/2021 at 6:19 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I'm not willing to 100% believe the account of someone who wasn't there. He said he got his info from Graham but Graham himself likely doesn't even have all the details. 

But also, like I said before, I do think Arthur seems very much like someone who just didn't give a flying fuck about TPTB so!

And Arthur will soon find out that the feeling is mutual. He is, how you say, toast. 

[peachmangosteen]

Oh yea, he'll never be back on AI. Which he won't care about lol.