S02.E13: I'll Give You A Clue

[Trini]

When Sophie must face a foe from her rookie days with The Crows, Ryan, Mary and Luke are also pulled into the villain's game. Meanwhile, the tables turn on Alice when she finds herself in dire circumstances, and Jacob continues to revisit the past.

Marshall Virtue directed the episode written by Caroline Dries and Natalie Abrams.

Airdate: 5/9/21

[scarynikki12]

Love Ryan ripping the Crows apart for just sucking. Yes, Arrogantly Hot Crow, this includes you.

Hee Roman yelled at Alice for annoying him. 

I would enjoy a whole episode of Ryan, Mary, and Sophie playing I Never.

I take it Cluemaster is unfamiliar with the work of one Edward Nygma if he thinks he’s the smartest in Gotham. Oh he’s familiar and is not only jealous of him but is petty about it.

Jacob is so far gone that he rejects Alice’s call for help. The second chance he’s been wanting and he squandered it.

Stephanie Brown has arrived! And let Sophie take credit/the fall for solving the clue five years ago.

Don’t underestimate the skills required to excel at Duck Hunt Sophie.

Yeah Stephanie’s puzzle for Luke was 100% Nerd Flirting. And Mary and Ryan are co-captains of the ship.

Alice is going to unknowingly give Kate Wallis Day’s face and then, presumably, throw away Ruby Rose’s face. And that’s how they’re doing the actor change. Well done. And now Alice knows Kate’s alive. 

Glad Sophie confessed knowing about Batwoman and they didn’t do stupid shenanigans to convince her she was wrong.

Mary and Ryan are fighting. I’m sad. But they made up and all is well.

Even if they kill him off I hope Jacob learns Kate’s alive before he goes. 

[BeautifulFlower]

I like Ryan, Sophie, and Mary dynamic. I want to see more of it. Especially as Sophie revealed she knows about Ryan as Batwoman. However, the fighting between Sophie and Ryan annoyed me. I'm glad their relationship is changing.

We got Stephanie Brown. Do you all think she will stick around? If she does, I guess Luke will be her love interest? If this happens, sorry to the Mary/Luke shippers.

I thought the answer was Mr. Freeze too Sophie

Dammit Jacob. Poor Mary, she has to treat her father for his drug addiction.

I wonder what Alice will do with the information about "Circe" actually being Kate.

I liked Sophie's reasoning for not just outright revealing she knows that Ryan is Batwoman. I think it's good that she wants to earn Ryan's trust and not force it. It's a good reasoning to me. 

[Primal Slayer]

Batwoman is 2 for 2 is great episodes. Probably one of the most Gotham feeling episodes of the series.

Sad to think that we could've had these type of episodes weekly if CW didnt hate me and picked up Green Arrow and the Canaries.

I love it when characters are just chilling and living their everyday lives so a game of never have I ever was so much fun and refreshing. 

This was definitely Sophies best episode, she's finally able to get out of that uniform, let her hair relax and just be one of the Batfam. Hopefully the writers are able to keep this up.

Great to have Stephanie introduced though the red hair is killing me....it's just to iconic for Barbara Gordon and they are both part of the Batfam and they both have their individual looks so...wish she were blonde. But she was fun and looks like Luke will be replacing Tim in Stephanies life. 

Um....how fitting that Alice gives her sister a new face. I love how it takes all of 5 minutes for a face to be made but we are finally back to Kate! 

[Trini]

This was one of the the best episodes in general, and definitely the best episode recently.

Lots of reveals; some stuff that I wasn't expecting either, that's definitely a plus. Everyone had their part to play; even Tavoroff who was there to get yelled at! The only thing I didn't like was Luke getting hit in the head. :(

Loved that all the women were working together, even if it was contentious at times - but some of that was fun anyway! I figured that Sophie's knowledge of Ryan/Batwoman would come out, but didn't expect she'd be in the Batcave so soon! Bruce is going to be so pissed about all these people all up in his stuff.

Aw, love interest for Luke! Whatever gets him out of that cave.

2 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

We got Stephanie Brown. Do you all think she will stick around? If she does, I guess Luke will be her love interest? If this happens, sorry to the Mary/Luke shippers.

It's CW, Luke/Mary can still happen.

I do hope Stephanie comes back occasionally; both for Luke, and for any other puzzles the need to solve.

So I guess Alice did give Kate a new face like everyone suggested when Ruby Rose left -- it's just really 3x more convoluted a story, now. Also wasn't expecting Alice to learn about Kate so soon; but I guess it's fitting since she's her twin. If Alice is the one to bring Kate back to herself, that's an interesting twist and storyline for Alice. -- That doesn't mean I don't want Alice in Arkham. She still needs to be locked up.

He wasn't needed in this episode, but I'm still worried about Ocean and where/when he's going to factor back into the story.

[RobertDeSneero]

I knew we were going to get a scene of Sophie dancing around her knowledge about Batwoman with Ryan while drinking, I just thought it'd be in the bar.  I'm feeling vindicated in my belief that Sophie wanted to earn the trust of the Bat Team so they let her and tell her instead of forcing her way in.  She just outright said what I said about last episode.

I feel more chemistry in a potential Sophie-Ryan pairing than I did about Ryan-Angelique or Kate-Sophie.  I've always felt that way since the characters first met. 

Maybe they'll find an angsty reason for them to need to use Enigma in the future to erase Sophie's knowledge of Batwoman's identity.

[paulvdb]

Why did Cluemaster poison his daughter and write the clues on her body? I originally assumed it was revenge for her tipping off Sophie 5 years ago. But later in the episode it seem he didn't know about that.

[cambridgeguy]

Luke sure does have a way with the brainy ladies, doesn't he?  At least Stephanie will last longer than crisis remnant Beth. 

Also, doesn't Alice usually have to sew the mask on before it's a perfect fit?  She just put it on Kate's face and when she leans back it's as if it morphed perfectly.  Or was it supposed to be an Alice POV where her craziness fill in the gaps?

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, paulvdb said:

Why did Cluemaster poison his daughter and write the clues on her body? I originally assumed it was revenge for her tipping off Sophie 5 years ago. But later in the episode it seem he didn't know about that.

My take was that he suspected all along that Stephanie was the one who beat him since she was the only person who ever did. (Apparently Bruce was just AWOL or actually stumped five years ago during his reign of terror). It's unclear as to whether Stephanie was actually in danger in the box trap or not. It seemed to me that her making it to their home confirmed to Cluemaster that she was in fact the person who outwitted him all along and he couldn't deal with the notion that she was smarter than him.

[Proteus]

The face mask stuff is one of the stupidest things. I hate that the show went this route for Kate instead of face surgery to change her face. So lame.

[thuganomics85]

If nothing else, I do respect that this show rarely drags things out.  Not only does Sophie already reveal she knows that Ryan is Batwoman to the gang (and it is confirmed by the rest outside of a brief "What, nooooooo!" response from Ryan at first), but she even gets her first trip to the Batcave!  Yay, Sophie!

In general, I thought the dynamics between Ryan, Sophie, and Mary worked really well here, even if it initially started with Ryan and Sophie butting heads, and Mary having to be the peacemaker between them.  But it makes sense that there would be a lot of bad blood between the two, and it won't go away that quickly.  But I'm glad progress is being made and some form of trust is starting to build.  In particular, I do think Ryan really did need to hear that her refusal to trust Sophie was potentially putting Mary in danger near the end, and that helped her start to realize that she might have been taking her vendetta too far.

I kind of wanted to know whatever Gotham villain trivia the Cluemaster had in store for everyone!

Stephanie Brown enters into the picture, I see.  Already proving herself to be quite intelligent and witty.  Oh, and totally having sparks with Luke!  Not sure where this will all go 

Spoiler

especially since from my limited comic knowledge, she eventually ends up with Tim Drake, I think

but it's nice for Luke to finally have someone to geek out with.  The actress was good too.  Hope she comes back.

Alice dodges death again by convincing Roman to let her use her face mask stuff on "Circe."  But thanks to recognizing her eyes, she knows that it is really Kate underneath all of that.  Also finally got our first glimpse of Wallis Day's face.

Things are not looking good for Jacob...

Only real complaint I have was that apparently time really has no meaning, because Sophie managed to go from the game show to Wayne Enterprise and back with ease, while Luke seemed to have either flew or used speedster powers to get to Stephanie before her father killed her.  There must be no traffic in Gotham whatsoever!

[tennisgurl]

Its awesome seeing Stephanie Brown in live action, although her being a redhead instead of a blond is going to take some getting used to. The actress was quite good and this was a good introduction for her. I am impressed at how much of her comics backstory they kept, even if they did add and change up a few things, its just really cool seeing her get brought to the screen, I have always liked her a lot. Comics Steph has gone through a LOT of crap and has often been pretty badly treated by editors, so I am hoping things are smoother for her here and we see her again. I like her and Luke as well, even if its funny that Luke is pretty much replacing her comics love interest. 

I am kind of amused that both of my ideas as to what the show could to when RR left, that they could introduce Stephanie Brown or another Batgirl to take her place or they could recast Kate by giving her a face transplant like we have seen before, both still ended up happening today. Sort of anyway. I am also now super curious about what the Arrowverse versions of Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, etc are like and what they are up to. I think one of the reasons I really liked this episode is that it felt a lot more Batman-y then a lot of this season has, introducing Stephanie Brown and her D List supervillain father, references to a lot of the classic Batman rogues gallery, and the whole "exploding gameshow" set up felt very over the top in a very Gotham kind of way. I guess Batman took care of a lot of the classic bad guys, but I hope a few of them still pop up, no way are The Penguin or Scarecrow gone for good, no matter how good Bruce was. I especially want the Riddler to show up to prove how a real master of riddles gets things done, especially if we can cut to Cluemaster still in jail, still very salty about being upstaged by the superior villain. 

The dynamics between Mary, Ryan, and Sophie were really good, this was one of Sophie's best episodes of the season. The three of them all drinking and playing games was great, I love watching the characters just hanging out having fun, even if Ryan was looking to start a fight. Ryan and Sophie's bickering was often frustrating, but I am glad that Ryan realized that she was being unfair, and that everyone now knows that Sophie knows the truth about who she is. So glad they didn't draw this all out, this show is really moving along. Of course Mary has to fix things, because Mary is the best. 

Jacob isn't always the nicest guy, but I can see why drugs seemed like a good idea to him, poor guy, even if he wasn't drugged against his will the first time. Like Mary said, two dead wives and two dead daughters is a whole lot to take, especially after he pushed what little he had left of a support system away. Hopefully he finds out that Kate is alive soon, even if she isn't exactly herself right now.  

[Quark]

Great episode and easily one of Sophie's best episodes ever. She also looked amazing.

[possibilities]

If Alice could get her memories back, then I figure at some point Kate gets hers, too. But then what? Does she decide she's had enough of being a hero and goes off to retire and farm magical flowers somewhere? I don't think she and Ryan could both be Batwoman. Someone will have to change careers.

I did like Sophie this episode. She was fun with Mary, but Mary makes everyone better, so who knows if it will last. Her eyes taking in the batcave were something else, though! 

Maybe the new faces can be glued on? Or maybe Alice was just holding it in place, and looking it over. The new face thing is really disgusting, though. I do wish they had a different device because it's very hard to get past how revolting that one is.

[Chicago Redshirt]

The problem with Sophie in the past was that the writing made her seem bad at her job, a black hole where fun goes to die, and as dull as possible.

This episode was one of the few where she seemed generally good at her job, fun and interesting to watch.

I wish that they reworked it so that rookie Sophie did not simply benefit from being handed her biggest career win by Stephanie She literally got promoted for something she didn't do, just by being in the right place at the right time. Two steps forward, one step back, I guess. 

I give the show props for Batwoman reading the Crows for filth and actually calling them white supremacists. I suppose there's probably not many in the audience to get offended by that the way that there would be if, say, a character in alt-universe Flash called someone out as a white supremacist, but still....

[Lantern7]

Fun episode. Ryan got to kick ass in plainclothes, a third-string Riddler got defeated, Sophie graduates from "Crowphie" status, Jacob falls furhter down the Snake Bite hole, and Alice gets to bond with Black Mask's daughter. And then she finds out that she's Kate. I'd say that would break Alice, but I'm willing to bet she can roll with her sister being turned into a psycho.

Is it weird to automatically "ship" Luke with Mary? I mean, Stephanie seems cool, but Mary is . . . Mary. Total cutie.

Cluemaster? I'll have to post in the comics thread. I'm a bit tickled they got his ponytail down. Even with the psychosis, he still came off as a schmuck. Also . . . if you're a guard looking into an empty cell, wouldn't you want to call in a buddy or two in case.the prisoner figured out how to hide?

[MarkHB]

On 5/10/2021 at 4:46 PM, tennisgurl said:

Its awesome seeing Stephanie Brown in live action, although her being a redhead instead of a blond is going to take some getting used to. The actress was quite good and this was a good introduction for her. I am impressed at how much of her comics backstory they kept, even if they did add and change up a few things, its just really cool seeing her get brought to the screen, I have always liked her a lot. Comics Steph has gone through a LOT of crap and has often been pretty badly treated by editors, so I am hoping things are smoother for her here and we see her again. I like her and Luke as well, even if its funny that Luke is pretty much replacing her comics love interest. 

Hear hear! I've been a Steph fan since she was first introduced in the comics and, although not exactly as I remember her (but I haven't followed the Bat-books since before Flashpoint), I thought the character they created was well done!  And not only did they get Cluemaster's ponytail as @Lantern7 mentioned, they had her in a purple hoodie and even got her origin essentially right ("spoiling" her father's crimes). I hope we see more of her and yet I don't hope she quickly becomes part of the Bat-fam (see also: comics).

[possibilities]

On 5/11/2021 at 8:17 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I wish that they reworked it so that rookie Sophie did not simply benefit from being handed her biggest career win by Stephanie She literally got promoted for something she didn't do, just by being in the right place at the right time.

I actually thought that her getting promoted that way helped to explain why she was so bad at her job and insecure a bout everything. She never went through the usual process and knows she doesn't really belong there. It's a weak excuse for the weak way they've been writing her, but that's how I took it.

 

13 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Also . . . if you're a guard looking into an empty cell, wouldn't you want to call in a buddy or two in case.the prisoner figured out how to hide?

Seriously! Everyone on this show is shockingly incompetent, outside the BatTeam and the totally psychotic criminals. 

[John Potts]

Glad we got the “Sophie knows who Batgirl is” out relatively quickly and that Mary realised her dad was on drugs. Kinda hope Jake does die as he seems pretty superfluous for the most part (and as Sophie would presumably take over, it would give her more to do, unless they give it to new guy instead). And I'm glad Luke got a potential love interest (though I'd prefer him & Mary as a couple).

So Stephanie - my main recollection was that she was the Robin in Dark Knight Returns, but I think she was also Batgirl at some point? But I was rather expecting her to turn out to be the new Cluemaster and he'd be all "When I realised  you were the one who could solve my Riddles, I knew you would carry on my legacy!"  and comics love that "Sins of the Father" BS.

On 5/10/2021 at 9:30 PM, thuganomics85 said:

There must be no traffic in Gotham whatsoever!

Evidently Gothamites are surprisingly lawful when it comes to respecting COVID lockdowns