S04.E5: Chicago

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

June seeks out more active rebels, while Janine tries to help her fit in with their new group of survivors.

Promo:

Original air date: 5/12/21

Edited May 5, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[greekmom]

As it was previously, the Israel trailers offer a bit more than the US/Canada ones. 

[Umbelina]

Oh, I am SO looking forward to this!

[mamadrama]

7 hours ago, greekmom said:

As it was previously, the Israel trailers offer a bit more than the US/Canada ones. 

Looks good! Thanks for posting.

From that trailer and from what we've already seen it feels like they are going for a "Lydia is a double agent who's been secretly looking out for June all along" approach. The writer in me cringed and hopes I'm wrong...I CAN get on board with the blackmail shit, though. I have no use for a Lydia redemption arc of any kind, but watching the Gilead peeps fuck each other over looks fun! I'm here for that. 

Oh, Janine. Baby...just no. It's transference combined with severe trauma. Please don't fall in love with the skeevy, rape dude. 

Isn't there someone we can hook her up with in Canada? Tuello, maybe? He seems to like crazy, damaged women. Is there a dating app for Gilead refugees? eFugee? BlessedBeasts? 

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

Oh, Janine. Baby...just no. It's transference combined with severe trauma. Please don't fall in love with the skeevy, rape dude.

I know! It's in character for her though. When she was pregnant with Charlotte she was telling June that her commander told her he wanted to run away with her and the baby, which she not only believed, but was also excited about.

1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

Isn't there someone we can hook her up with in Canada? Tuello, maybe? He seems to like crazy, damaged women. Is there a dating app for Gilead refugees? eFugee? BlessedBeasts? 

Whatever its name, it will have to be a Bumble-type app where a man can't message a woman unless she messages him first.

[mamadrama]

16 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I know! It's in character for her though. When she was pregnant with Charlotte she was telling June that her commander told her he wanted to run away with her and the baby, which she not only believed, but was also excited about.

Whatever its name, it will have to be a Bumble-type app where a man can't message a woman unless she messages him first.

I think that's one of the things I like about Janine. She's smart but she's almost sweetly naive. In in Gilead she's a glass half full kind of gal. 

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

I think that's one of the things I like about Janine. She's smart but she's almost sweetly naive. In in Gilead she's a glass half full kind of gal. 

Yes, and painfully honest, even when it's to her detriment.  I'd adore seeing the "real" Janine emerge from this near decade of abuse to be her real self again.

[chaifan]

Did anyone else notice in the Israeli trailer... Aunt Lydia on a treadmill!  Not sure if we're supposed to read something into that or not, but I just find it funny thinking that Aunt Lydia spends her free time working out on a treadmill.  😁

[mamadrama]

15 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, and painfully honest, even when it's to her detriment.  I'd adore seeing the "real" Janine emerge from this near decade of abuse to be her real self again.

I want to see her and June finally hit that bar. 

[Brn2bwild]

21 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Looks good! Thanks for posting.

From that trailer and from what we've already seen it feels like they are going for a "Lydia is a double agent who's been secretly looking out for June all along" approach. The writer in me cringed and hopes I'm wrong...I CAN get on board with the blackmail shit, though. I have no use for a Lydia redemption arc of any kind, but watching the Gilead peeps fuck each other over looks fun! I'm here for that. 

Oh, Janine. Baby...just no. It's transference combined with severe trauma. Please don't fall in love with the skeevy, rape dude. 

Isn't there someone we can hook her up with in Canada? Tuello, maybe? He seems to like crazy, damaged women. Is there a dating app for Gilead refugees? eFugee? BlessedBeasts? 

Based on the clips we've seen of the episodes from previews 

Spoiler

he will probably end up getting killed when that bomb explodes in the building.

 

[Umbelina]

OMG!

Lawrence and Lydia going at it, both fighting for their lives, now a blackmail team.

Finally, the real war.

Moira finding JUNE!!!!

I'm so in for this.

ETA, Nick playing fast and loose, convincingly on the Commander's side, but at least he does seem to be still trying to save June.  He should not have trusted Lawrence.

Also, Lydia demanding that any decisions about June are hers, and hers alone.  Hopefully, you'll never get that chance Lydia.

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Umbelina

[Brn2bwild]

OMG, damn this show for leaving it a cliffhanger whether Janine lives or dies!

[Umbelina]

https://www.hulu.com/watch/3397606d-a941-42aa-826e-caaf5c435af6

The inside the episode, but it's not up on youtube yet.

[EllaWycliffe]

Just now, Brn2bwild said:

OMG, damn this show for leaving it a cliffhanger whether Janine lives or dies!

Yeah hate this but love that June didn't force her to come along.

Loved Moira taking the risk as a rescuer during the cease fire. 

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Yeah hate this but love that June didn't force her to come along.

Loved Moira taking the risk as a rescuer during the cease fire. 

I wonder if Moira was there early as a volunteer aid worker, and caught caught in the sudden last minute bombing ordered by the Commanders?

Either way, June and Moira together again, for a while at least!

[tvgoddess]

That "Fuck June Osborne!" made the episode for me. I did like seeing a sweet display of friendship between June and Janine though. And that ending! Holy crap, I was not expecting to see Moira there.

I also very much appreciated Janine snidely calling out June on her role in Alma (my girl!) and Briana.

[chocolatine]

If Janine dies, I'm done with this show.

Was Moira really in Chicago or did June hallucinate her? She didn't even have a fleck of dust on her after the carpet bombing. I know her girlfriend was leaving Toronto and asked Moira to come with her, but I didn't realize she was going into a war zone. What kind of person asks a loved one to join them in something so dangerous? I also thought Moira didn't want to leave Toronto because of her work with the refugees.

I hate to say this, but I was 100% on Steven the rapist's side when he refused to shoot the soldier because that would get them into a lot more trouble.

[Umbelina]

Yeah, everything in the interactions between Janine and June was just gold.

I kind of hope (not a spoiler, I have no idea) that Janine survives and goes to Canada, and maybe Moira decides stays behind to fight with June.  I think the show has made clear that it's not June's goal to get to safety anymore, just to bring down Gilead.  Maybe she will go, but ...

 

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I hate to say this, but I was 100% on Steven the rapist's side when he refused to shoot the soldier because that would get them into a lot more trouble.

Oh ditto.  Two different philosophies there, one is to hide, and one is to fight.  If everyone just hid, Gilead would continue on, and Steven has no clue how bad Gilead really is.  June does.

ETA  THAT was not the time though, no idea how many soldiers were out there, and what weapons they could have had. As the saying goes, one hand grenade could kill them all.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Umbelina
added the last bit

[Umbelina]

I'm looking forward to the older treadmill Aunt Lydia going toe to toe with the younger Aunt Ruth too.  That should be so much more interesting that what we've seen from Lydia for three seasons now.

Interesting, in the "Inside the Episode" for this one, Commander Lawrence thinks he's won against Aunt Lydia, and has her right where he wants her.  I didn't quite see it that way, and I'm not sure Lydia did either.

I'm looking forward to more of this kind of stuff from Aunt Lydia, and less torturing those poor, fresh and sad and young looking new Handmaids.

I also wondering if this conflict between Lawrence and Nick will continue, another match up between the wizened genius Lawrence, and the hot head rising young commander Nick.  

[Bannon]

I started this show during the pandemic, and was looking forward to this season. The most interesting aspect for me has always been the psychological aspects of a totalitarian regime's efforts to control the population. As we move more into what appears to be a guerilla/civil war setting, the mechanically unrealistic stuff, like last week's milk tank, or this week having June stroll down the middle of a Chicago street in a war zone like she's a majorette in The St. Patrick's Day Parade, becomes more jarring.

This is where having a director with some chops in action realism can be useful. Really disliked the scene with Moira (perhaps my favorite character), again, because it seemed so clunky and contrived. The setup of commanders in various states of disloyalty to the regime, engaged in some vicious backstabbing, is promising. A regime like Gilead can be extraordinarily brittle, once a sufficient number of people with hands on the levers of power start to admit, even if only silently to themselves, that the ideological basis for the regime's hold on power is all bullsh t. Hopefully, that'll be explored.

[meatball77]

Did that scene with June walking down the silent street feel like a scene from Mockingjay to anyone else?  I was waiting for some hybrid creature to come out.

[mamadrama]

There was no middle ground for me in this episode-I was either very bored  or very interested.

They're continuing to choose cinematography over substance or sense. For instance, June walking through a frontline in the middle of the road LOOKED good but was stupid. 

I did greatly enjoy the Mayday convo they had in the extras, though. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by mamadrama

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think it's less that Janine is naive and more that she is an optimist who makes the best of a situation while retaining hope. Is having a baby with Steven the best idea? To me, no. But to Janine, maybe. As Alma said when they were at the farm, this might be the most freedom they ever get so they should enjoy it while they can. I still think Steven is gross, but for Janine, who has been a handmaid for several years at this point, she gets to choose to have sex with him and she's no longer forced to comply with all the Gilead rules. Living in an abandoned warehouse isn't ideal, but is it worse than being a handmaid? Probably not. She's already lost two kids that we know of, so having a baby, even if it's Steven's would make her happy, so who am I to judge her for wanting that?

[ReganX]

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I'm looking forward to more of this kind of stuff from Aunt Lydia, and less torturing those poor, fresh and sad and young looking new Handmaids.

What I can't understand is why, with fertile women so rare*, Aunt Lydia doesn't see how counterproductive it is to treat the Handmaids like crap. She goes on about how lucky and privileged they are, yet knowingly sends them into households where they're poorly treated. Take June's bedroom at the Waterford household, for example. It's a big house, yet she's left in a Spartan attic room. Handmaids seem to be basically left in their rooms except for their daily shopping trips and periodic Salvagings. That kind of treatment was bound to lead to trouble.

Being made a Handmaid is also a threat to be held over the heads of fertile Econowives.

They might do better if they made being a Handmaid a lot more comfortable in a material sense, with the promise of a comfortable and honoured retirement (valuable for a woman in Gilead, given the risk of ending up an Unwoman sent to the Colonies). In The Giver and its sequels, Birthmothers apparently live in very comfortable surroundings, have wonderful food, and play games instead of working. 

A gilded cage may still be a cage, but I imagine that many would prefer a gilded cage to a grotty one.

The current generation of Handmaids are conscripted from women deemed sinful who have a history of successful childbearing. Sooner or later, they will run out of these women, and the current Handmaids will hit menopause.

The Daughters of Gilead are being indoctrinated to be good Wives and mothers, obedient to authority. It stands to reason that very few of them will commit the various "sins" that led to the current Handmaids being conscripted.

If the infertility issue persists into the next generation, what little girl in Gilead is going to dream of growing up to be a Handmaid?

 

* At least as far as the Gileadean authorities are concerned; I know that male infertility is the true issue.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 minutes ago, ReganX said:

If the infertility issue persists into the next generation, what little girl in Gilead is going to dream of growing up to be a Handmaid?

The kind who is brainwashed from birth to believe that she is doing the most important job in the world (see also: Brave New World where even the lower castes are trained to believe that their station in life is The Best).

[ReganX]

37 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The kind who is brainwashed from birth to believe that she is doing the most important job in the world (see also: Brave New World where even the lower castes are trained to believe that their station in life is The Best).

That's the problem. They're not raising them to think that it's the most important job in the world. The Daughters are taught that they need to grow up to be Wives and mothers (if possible), while Handmaids are seen as strange and shameful. Being made a Handmaid is a punishment and everybody knows it. Being a Wife is what girls are taught to aspire to. They don't seem to do any kind of fertility testing. A woman in Gilead is only proven fertile after giving birth to a healthy baby. The Daughters of Commanders will grow up to be married off to Commanders and their sons. The Econodaughters will grow up to marry Economen or lower-ranking soldiers. They won't be confirmed to be fertile until they have their first healthy baby. At that point, becoming a Handmaid will not be something for them to aspire to.

I'd say that they need to start changing the teachings about and the status of Handmaids, converting the role from a threat to a privilege.

In Brave New World, they engineer the numbers for their castes based on need, and conditioning starts from birth.

Imagine what would happen if somebody was engineered as an Alpha, and conditioned for their infancy and childhood to think that being an Alpha was wonderful, and that being an Alpha was how they could best serve society. Then, when they're an adolescent or young adult, there's a shortage of Epsilons. Imagine trying to convince that Alpha that, actually, being an Epsilon was really the best caste, and they'd be so much happier in that role.

Edited May 12, 2021 by ReganX

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, ReganX said:

What I can't understand is why, with fertile women so rare*, Aunt Lydia doesn't see how counterproductive it is to treat the Handmaids like crap. She goes on about how lucky and privileged they are, yet knowingly sends them into households where they're poorly treated. Take June's bedroom at the Waterford household, for example. It's a big house, yet she's left in a Spartan attic room. Handmaids seem to be basically left in their rooms except for their daily shopping trips and periodic Salvagings. That kind of treatment was bound to lead to trouble.

You make good points. The problem is that they don't care about the Handmaid as a person. They don't even let them have names. You'd think that more comfort would ensure better fertility probability and fewer pregnancy complications. To Gilead men, though, hobbies/tasks/stuff to do would distract the women. Comfort will make them too complacent. 

They're less women who can have babies and more like robots. Their comfort level doesn't matter because they're barely human.

As far as Lydia? I think she thinks the women are treated well. The have clothing and food and beds AND get to serve a holy purpose. What more could they want?

[ReganX]

1 minute ago, mamadrama said:

As far as Lydia? I think she thinks the women are treated well. The have clothing and food and beds AND get to serve a holy purpose. What more could they want?

The same could be said of the Aunts, and it looked like their set-up is pretty comfortable.

They're prepared to take Handmaids out of the household to send them to Magdalene colonies, with the Commanders and Wives visiting on fertile days, so why not make it the default that the Handmaids aren't part of the Commanders' household? Set up some kind of comfortable house/spa for the Handmaids, and have them live there. It's not like there won't be plenty of abandoned hotels that could be repurposed. Throw in perks like room upgrades for a successful pregnancy.

[AntFTW]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Interesting, in the "Inside the Episode" for this one, Commander Lawrence thinks he's won against Aunt Lydia, and has her right where he wants her.  I didn't quite see it that way, and I'm not sure Lydia did either.

I've always been one to think that the first person to show their hand in a negotiation has the weaker hand, and not necessarily because they actually have a weaker hand (they might not), but because it almost always shows upfront how far they're willing to go and how much they are willing to give up to get what they want.

As I watched, I thought it showed how desperate she was. She put everything on display and left no surprises. He may have been willing to do it without the blackmail, and he was willing to do it without the blackmail if Aunt Lydia was willing to provide dirt on the other commanders... which she probably would because she's desperate... which is how I'm guessing Lawrence got the other commanders to change their minds on the ceasefire.

Edited May 12, 2021 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

I'm not sure if I missed it, what's the point of this ragtag group led by Steven?

They only fight when they can score valuable goods?

[chocolatine]

7 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I'm not sure if I missed it, what's the point of this ragtag group led by Steven?

They only fight when they can score valuable goods?

I think they're just trying to survive the war, and that's easier to do in a group.

[mamadrama]

7 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I'm not sure if I missed it, what's the point of this ragtag group led by Steven?

They only fight when they can score valuable goods?

I feel like they're a little bit of Rick Grimes & Co. They're not mounting an insurrection or anything, they're literally just trying to survive. They move around from place to place, trade with other groups, and occasionally go on supply runs. They kill when they have to but they're not really fighters.

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I feel like they're a little bit of Rick Grimes & Co. They're not mounting an insurrection or anything, they're literally just trying to survive. They move around from place to place, trade with other groups, and occasionally go on supply runs. They kill when they have to but they're not really fighters.

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I had their goal right. That makes me wonder then why do they not try to make their way to Canada?

[mamadrama]

1 minute ago, AntFTW said:

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I had their goal right. That makes me wonder then why do they not try to make their way to Canada?

Good point. Maybe some of them have? I don't know. With soldiers nearby they may be guarding the border well and that makes crossing harder. 

[EllaWycliffe]

I mean, unless you're flying or getting on a boat.... Chicago isn't the closest city to the border. The Canadian border by land is a bit of a hike.

[mamadrama]

S1 Aunt Lydia: if a man looks at you or a group gang rapes you then you brought it on yourself, and it's YOUR fault you 'hos!

S4 Aunt Lydia: come, my precious ones, I'm here to save you and protect you from all those things those horrid, evil men might try to do to you!

[EllaWycliffe]

I really don't see Aunt Lydia as protecting Handmaids in season 4. June was tortured after all, and Lydia's ask from Lawrence was that she gets June when June is caught. 

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I mean, unless you're flying or getting on a boat.... Chicago isn't the closest city to the border. The Canadian border by land is a bit of a hike.

True but it isn’t like there’s anything in Chicago for them. The risks seem to be the same whether they decide to take the hike. They risk being caught or killed either way or being in gunfights with Gilead soldiers… but there’s upside in Canada, and not so much in Chicago.

[AntFTW]

Also, I’m thinking Steven may enjoy his position being in this dystopian Chicago and that’s why he doesn’t make the move to Canada. In Chicago, he’s the top dog that women may have sex with for a place to stay and some food. He would lose that little power he has if they went to Canada.

[Bannon]

Regarding some of the relative realism of the plot, I can handwave an effective Gilead blockade  along the WI and MI borders, cutting off escape to Canada, forcing insurgents to hole up in urban Chicago, or risk getting caught in the open in a flight towards Texas.

The Gilead treatment of Handmaids should be seen through the historical prism of so much strategic stupidity from ideologically driven totalitarian regimes. Nazis wasting critical logistic capacity getting Jews rounded up, instead of supplies moved to the Eastern Front. Soviet Communists executing competent Army officers while the Nazis threaten. Khmer Rouge slaughtering the most competent people in Cambodian society. Gilead stupidly working at cross purposes to their supposed goal of having more babies, so as to lend support to their idiotic quest to demonstrate the inferior status of women, is pretty plausible. Stupidly cruel tyrants gonna stupidly, cruelly, tyrannize, when it comes down to it.

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, AntFTW said:

True but it isn’t like there’s anything in Chicago for them. The risks seem to be the same whether they decide to take the hike. They risk being caught or killed either way or being in gunfights with Gilead soldiers… but there’s upside in Canada, and not so much in Chicago.

Do we know if Canada grants refugee status to all US citizens? They may only be giving it to certain groups like handmaids and their families, Marthas, Catholics, etc. Those who don't qualify can still request asylum, but that means being in legal limbo for years and possibly getting sent back after going through all of that trouble.

From my own experience, most countries have very narrow definitions of refugees, and even citizens of countries that are at war don't always qualify.

Edited May 12, 2021 by chocolatine

[mamadrama]

3 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I really don't see Aunt Lydia as protecting Handmaids in season 4. June was tortured after all, and Lydia's ask from Lawrence was that she gets June when June is caught. 

Does anyone actually think she's protecting them? She's one of the worst ones...

[EllaWycliffe]

Mamadrama, I really agree. I don't see Lydia wanting June back under her control that doesn't involve bad things for June. 

[jenn31]

“Get back in bed, it’s not safe.” So what does  June do? Storms out, as usual. I’m surprised she didn’t get them all killed. I like how Steven put her in her place when he explained why they couldn’t act yet. June NEVER thinks, just rushes head on.  Loved when the Martha said “Fuck June!” and the comment about the wall. At least someone sees June for what she is. Janine still hasn’t fully caught on. She signed her death warrant joining back with June. Janine better not be dead. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by jenn31
spelling

[steph369]

Oh Janine, you have such shit taste in men. I realize the poor girl is broken but yuck... Steven. 

[goldilocks]

Ha, Lawrence... “Would your heart glow, or something?” (to Nick’s telling him he’d know if June was near the border).

[tennisgurl]

What a small world it is, June and Moira just happen to run into each other in the middle of recently bombed Chicago, which I should have seen coming when we saw Moira talking about going to Chicago in the Previouslys, but I still gasped when Moira appeared out of the smoke. I just need confirmation that Jeanine is alive please and thank you. After all of this, a stupid bomb taking her out after she already escaped Gilead would just be too much. 

I am really amused by the fact that June is persona non grata among the Martha's, they aren't wrong that most people that help June (and aren't main characters) tend to end up dead, which makes me doubly worried about Jeanine. Its not like its all June's fault, people have made their choices when they follow her and go against Gilead, but her plans do tend to not be super well thought out. Even here, so the plan is just wander around the wrecked city and hope you run into this resistance group? I did like the interactions between June and Jeanine a lot this episode, they had some nice moments and I love that she called out June on the deaths of Alma (miss you!) and Breanna and on how June underestimates Jeanine and treats her like a stupid child. Jeanine isn't all that mentally well, understandably, but she isn't stupid and she isn't as naïve as June thinks she is. She is very much a glass is half full kind of women, which has helped her to survive a lot of really horrible things, its takes a certain skillset to be able to make the best of so many bad situations instead of crumbling into despair. Its why, as sad as it is that she feels like creepy Steve is a good option for a boyfriend, I can see why it looked like a good idea for her. Its what she needs to do to survive so why not make the best of it? Again, she better have survived or I am going to be pissed.   

The big non Moira shock of the episode was seeing people in Gilead actually doing fun things, with a bunch of the Aunts playing cards, listening to music, working out, etc. I thought that everyone in Gilead except for the Commanders at Jezebels spent every second of the day doing their assigned task or sitting around being sad. Not surprising that Lydia is being retired after her many screw ups, but she is still trying to stay in the game. Now we have Nick, Lawrence, and Lydia all angling to play each other, and I have no idea who will come out on top. 

[jenn31]

16 hours ago, mamadrama said:

They're continuing to choose cinematography over substance or sense. For instance, June walking through a frontline in the middle of the road LOOKED good but was stupid. 

Probably Elisabeth Moss’s input. More exposure for herself. I’d rather have seen more of Janine, wavering as to whether or not to join June.

Edited May 13, 2021 by jenn31
spelling

[steph369]

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Again, she better have survived or I am going to be pissed.  

Me too. But I’m banking on her being alive. Otherwise I’m sure we’d have seen her dead in the debris. They need their cliffhanger for the week. At first I was surprised the cliffhanger wasn’t about June again, but then they know that we know they’re not going to kill off invincible June, so there wouldn’t  be much anticipation. 

[Umbelina]