S11.E11: Teresa in Love

[LibertarianSlut]

On rewatch, I noticed a few things.  

First of all, when Marge said that Joe had to go home to shower after fucking her, Teresa slapped Margaret five.  That tells me not just a lot about Margaret, but a lot about Teresa.

Second of all, it was not just that Dolores started things in general terms as I posted up thread.  Dolores specifically started with Joe at the cocktail party, not the other way around.  I think she was very drunk.  She was the only one who thought Teresa left because she was upset, and as soon as they explained that Teresa left because of a booty call, and zero people were upset, Dolores made the big speech defending Teresa anyway, saying what Teresa had a right to do, and how much they have both been through and how much everyone judges them.  She completely misread the room, and clearly had an axe to grind, and it was inconvenient for her that none of this applied to Teresa, but why let the facts get in the way of a big, morally high ground speech (did I mention she reminds me of Caroline? 😉)?

When Melissa said that Joe is the kind of guy who will share that he just had sex with his wife, Dolores turned to Joe and said David would never be that way and that “David would be very upset around you.”  It was only after two provocative comments that Joe came up to Dolores, (also very drunk), put an arm on her shoulder and mumbled (in an imitation of Dolores) “I’m so happy.”  They went back and forth a few times and then Dolores faced Joe very aggressively and said very loudly “I don’t want someone getting mad at me for getting ahead of them when I walk to the car.”  Ok, now she’s bringing Melissa into this.  If I were Melissa, I’d be pissed.  So that’s why Melissa told Dolores “not everybody wants your exact replica.”  She could have gone harder and I’d still have been on Melissa’s side.  

Then I think Joe went a little off the rails and began to show old Joey G, “you’re my father, my fucking father” behavior, but a lot went into it beforehand.  I was just really glad he wasn’t ass-kissing for the first time over the course of the show.  I was really glad that he said that Frank was out “doing his thing” and that broke Dolores.  I don’t really think it is funny and wacky and cool to have a storyline where your husband, who got disbarred and didn’t tell you when you guys were business partners, which, by definition, makes it your business, was sticking his wick in other women while Dolores was pregnant.  Why is it ok that Frank did that to Dolores, but when Tristan Thompson does it to Khloe, it’s international news?  It’s not just about Frank and Dolores.  There was a very young daughter involved and an unborn son.  Those children, who are now adults, could very well go on to have intimacy issues, and rightfully so.  What’s wrong with these people?

I am not saying Frank should be cast out of society for cheating, but I don’t think he belongs in the group.  I wouldn’t feel comfortable with him in the group, and that’s why I’m glad Joe Gorga, the biggest pussy ever, called it out.  I’ve said it before, but not in these words—Frank props Dolores up socially and financially.  I had to laugh earlier in the episode when she said she’s done so much, and was a financially independent single mom.  Right, if you call demanding cabinets from your ex-husband since season seven “financially independent.”  David doesn’t show up to events, so Frank comes as his stand-in and whenever we have seen that with Housewives before, there has always been trouble in paradise.  Right off the top of my head, Jim Bellino and Alexis, who went on to get divorced, come to mind.  

When Melissa is asking Dolores a direct question, instead of gossiping about her behind her back, Dolores can’t handle it.  That’s what I don’t like.  This is a show about people talking about other people, at its essence.  (I also loved in a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it moment when Margaret tried to backpeddle on the rumor-mongering, which is Margaret’s MO because she’s a fraidy cat, and Melissa called Margaret “bitch” to her face and then went on to name every single person at that party who had been talking about Dolores and her Porsche versus her non-ring.  If this is who Melissa Motherfucking Gorga is, then she can stay).  

Dolores said she is good with David and the way things are and no one said one thing against it as soon as she explained it, but that was still too much for her and it was suddenly, “Frank, I want to leave.”  Why does Miss Independent need Frank to take her home?  We all know that Bravo provides car services for these people, or one of them could have called an Uber.  Why is she so dependent on Frank?  It reminds me of the way Teresa couldn’t stand on her own in past seasons, and said everyone needed to leave with her.  And the way that Melissa demanded that Teresa get Michelle and her husband to retract the truth about Joe’s financial shenanigans, otherwise she’s not a good sister in law.  And the way Melissa demanded Teresa stay in the Hamptons last year instead of leaving with Jennifer, otherwise, again, Teresa is not a good sister-in-law.  I don’t like coalition-building through blind loyalty, and I really don’t like that, when Dolores is talking, Frank is standing there like a puppet, nodding vociferously, as if his balls will be handed to him in a jar if he isn’t Dolores’s whipping boy.  

I have to keep quoting Dina season six about what she said about Bobby being with Nicole because he wanted to be one of the cool kids.  This goes just as much for Frank.  Frank wants to kiss Joe Gorga’s ass and hit golf balls and drink with the guys and mouth-breathe while Dolores gives him the skinny about whether Evan is “coming in hot,” and the price he pays is to be Dolores’s whipping boy, and it’s gross. Frank told Andy at one of the reunions that he is not back with Dolores because he is not 100% sure he can be faithful.  I interpret that to mean that he does not respect Dolores enough not to fuck other ladies.  She is not worth the commitment to him.  Men like Frank may want us to believe their penis just makes decisions, but, alas, we have free will, and Frank could be faithful to Dolores, but instead he chooses not to be, and everyone pretends to be ok with that, when, at the very least, Dolores is not, as I’ll explain below.  In earlier days of the show, it was said that Frank had a girlfriend.  I don’t think he’s a particularly good-looking guy, but I am positive he can get laid a lot, and probably by a pretty high caliber of woman.  He also has good manners and seems to be able to carry on a conversation with a woman.  Yet, notice how Frank never, ever has so much as a date at any event on camera?  It is because Dolores has his balls in a vice, because she is broken and she has a scarred heart over what he did, and she’s not taking affirmative steps to get over it.  Mark my words, because I’ve seen this before:  Frank is not free to be happy until Dolores is completely happy.  Frank will not have a date until Dolores gets what she wants from David or some other millionaire (an ob-gyn for high-risk pregnancies who can afford to own and renovate that property in their area has at least a million dollars in assets).  Some sick shit at play for Dolores to keep Frank on the hook at least until David acts, maybe longer.  

Whatever Joe said that was out of line didn’t justify Dolores individually saying to everyone at the party, “fuck you, fuck you, fuck you.”  That’s trashy. “Frank, let’s fucking goooo!” hollered across a nice party was especially classless.  Clearly she has something to hide, because someone who didn’t have their defenses up would have noticed that once the explanation was given, everything was fine.  She’s a control freak in a lot of areas, and up until this point, she’s hid it very well, but now the mask ain’t slipping, it’s like it’s been peeled off, discarded, and burned.  Remember how, in season eight, we were all wondering why Siggy was going fucking crazy about Margaret and Dolores refused to ever say anything to or about Siggy in any capacity and just defended the crazy?  It was because Dolores thought that Siggy had a right to go that hard at Margaret for not falling into line, because Dolores has that mentality that you never go against the family, Fredo, and anyone who dares to question anything, like whether the Porsche was in lieu of the ring, is dead to her.  

Jackie had a point, and the show flashed back to proof of it, when she said Dolores’s party line on David went from all to nothing.  Last season, at the reunion, she was dead set on that ring.  Now she doesn’t want a ring.  Ok, fine, but if these people are your friends—and it’s her job to pretend that they are—then they get to ask questions about it.  Just like they get to ask questions about whether Teresa has a boyfriend.  I don’t think it’s good TV to make a season out of whether Teresa has a boyfriend, but they can and do ask, and Teresa puts up with it, because she is very aware that they are trying to make a television show here.  

It was very telling to me that Dolores’s parting words were, “well, figure it out, because whatever I said is what I fucking mean.”  The subtext to that, to me, was that no one is allowed to question her behavior.  But this is reality TV and that’s literally the format.  Jordan Peterson loves to pose the question of how to we figure out what one believes—do we listen to what they say or do we go by their actions?  And it’s a really deep philosophical question that he traces back to Nietzche, Kierkegadd, and a whole school of thought.  I would pose that question to Dolores.  

I’m gathering that Dolores thinks that she has every right to make inconsistent and self-nullifying statements both in her words and her behavior and no one is allowed to say word one about it, or they get an earful.  Like I said, this traces back to Siggy and even Dolores’s defense of Jacqueline in season seven, when almost every single viewer was like, “I really like this Dolores person, but why does she keep on defending Jacqueline’s indefensible behavior over and over and over again?”  Now it’s rearing its head in an ugly way, not a benign way, but it comes from the same set of beliefs that we have to be totally blind about people or we are not good friends.  Dolores totally lost me this episode.  

The standard can simply not be as simple as “if she says she’s happy, then it’s nobody’s business.”  That doesn’t hold up when I scrutinize it.  What if she was doing something really destructive, but claimed to be “happy”?  Would no one be able to say a word about that?  What if people do not believe that she is happy?  What if she is happy, but she’s doing something really antisocial, like killing people?  That’s an extreme example, but I’m using it to expose that there is a fallacy in using Dolores’s subjective use of the term happy as the end all and be all.  Maybe the standard is that if she’s happy and not harming anyone else, we should leave her alone, which is a totally different thing.  And even that doesn’t work on reality TV, clearly.  If Dolores wants to be a tertiary character, then she should be a friend-of.  This show has a long history with friends-of.  Or, as I suggested earlier, she doesn’t need to participate.  No one is forcing her.  

And she may not be harming other people, but I think she’s hurting other people.  Her outbursts, which started early with Danielle, when Danielle hadn’t really done anything to Dolores, are now continuing, and while it is more interesting than wondering if Teresa is getting laid or whether Joe thinks his wife works too much at her fake store, are completely unjustified and it’s like social terrorism to talk about/to Dolores about Dolores.  In addition to the fact that it appears she is holding one man hostage (Frank, who is an adult and responsible for his own decisions, but I am positing that they are both making a bad decision to stand in for each others’ love interests for the time being) until another man (David) takes a step, or a series of steps (marriage doesn’t occur in a vacuum; several things have to occur for people to get married), which he doesn’t appear to be willing to take.  

I know Dolores and Frank seem fun and light, but there is a dark underbelly to their relationship that her kids are seeing, where mom is keeping dad, her ex, on a leash for transgressions that occurred two decades ago, and her kids are far from stupid. The message is that dad hurt mom so much at such a vulnerable time in her life that dad must now be a slave to mom’s whims and kiss her ass and pay for her home renovations until she’s ready to release him.  No wonder Dolores can’t get along with Ramona from RHNYC.  Ramona knows what forgiveness and moving on from an unfaithful spouse looks like, and Dolores wouldn’t recognize it if it smacked her in the lips.  

And her friends had better take the ring story du jour at face value, or she will cut them out too.  If I’m David, I am watching this episode and I’m scheduling tons of Caesarian births with the most high-risk pregnancies possible (ok, I’m wrong, maybe something good does come out of this), because who wants to face the wrath of that?  And David clearly has his own issues too if he keeps buying shit for a woman to whom he doesn’t want to commit.  It’s all completely fucked up, it’s been going on for too long, and I’d really like to see her get her shit together and be single until she can find a normal relationship, and set Frank and David free to live their own lives, and make that myth she tells herself about being an independent woman the truth.  

Until then, I’d rather hear excerpts from Margaret’s book about the tremendous burdens of being an attractive 22 year old blonde who had casual affairs with her bosses between trips to Bloomingdales.  I’d rather hear how many calories Jackie consumes in a day.  I’d rather see a Posche fashion show than to endure more teasing about Teresa’s boyfriend (a divorced woman pushing 50 is dating a man—let’s get the press!) or to watch Dolores abuse an entire set of party guests because they’re not dancing to her tune.  This season is bullshit (and it’s still better than 90% of the other reality shows, from which I’m trying to gear away, but every time I try to get out, they pull me back in! 😕)

Edited May 4, 2021 by LibertarianSlut
Typos

[lilmarysunshine]

On 5/2/2021 at 3:15 PM, Hiyo said:

May get a degree in something you actually enjoy and follow up on that after graduation would be a suggestion.

Most women I know who have done that didn't immediately graduate, get married and get knocked up. I know my doctor friend was in her late 30s so had some time in the career before she quit.

Jackie's oldest kids are 12 so we can assume she had some time in the profession since she had them at 32, not 22.  She could have loved her job but that doesn't mean it is easy to pick up 4 kids from daycare, get them fed, bathed and put to bed only to get up in 7 hours and start it all over again. Often it is about the kind of pace you want for your life, not really how much you enjoy your job.

[ichbin]

8 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

We'll have to agree to disagree...I think she was hit in a past relationship, I'm just not sure if it was Frank.

If Delores were to say He isn't a serial rapist and he isn't a thief.....I'd think she was talking about someone in her past

Nothing to disagree or agree about.  Either could be true.  We don't know. We're all simply speculating about various viable options. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

Most women I know who have done that didn't immediately graduate, get married and get knocked up. I know my doctor friend was in her late 30s so had some time in the career before she quit.

Never said they did it immediately graduate, get married, and knocked up.

Just that many women I know keep working even after they land a rich husband and start having kids, even as the kids grow older, because they actually enjoy the work they do and enjoy their job. From a financial standpoint, they don't need to keep working, but do it anyway and seem to have a found a nice balance between their professional life and personal life. But again, they really seem to enjoy their jobs and didn't do it (degree and work) for the white collar paycheck. The seem to be the ones who try and make it work the hardest. I'm usually in awe of them.

[ichbin]

6 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I am not saying Frank should be cast out of society for cheating, but I don’t think he belongs in the group.

Well somebody does because, believe it or not, the famewhore boys will be taking their act live and on stage:  https://www.hardrockhotelatlanticcity.com/event-calendar/hard-rock-live-etess-arena/sinatra-meets-the-real-house-husbands-of-new-jersey. I imagine this must be hitting Richie Wakile pretty hard considering how much he seemed to enjoy being in the limelight back in his days on the show.

Edited May 4, 2021 by ichbin
finish sentence

[lasu]

21 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

 Yet, notice how Frank never, ever has so much as a date at any event on camera?  It is because Dolores has his balls in a vice, because she is broken and she has a scarred heart over what he did, and she’s not taking affirmative steps to get over it.  Mark my words, because I’ve seen this before:  Frank is not free to be happy until Dolores is completely happy.

 

21 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

there is a dark underbelly to their relationship that her kids are seeing, where mom is keeping dad, her ex, on a leash for transgressions that occurred two decades ago, and her kids are far from stupid. The message is that dad hurt mom so much at such a vulnerable time in her life that dad must now be a slave to mom’s whims and kiss her ass and pay for her home renovations until she’s ready to release him.

21 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Men like Frank may want us to believe their penis just makes decisions, but, alas, we have free will, and Frank could be faithful to Dolores, but instead he chooses not to be, and everyone pretends to be ok with that,

I don't have any insider information, but I definitely disagree with all of this (while keeping in mind these are opinions so I'm not saying anyone is WRONG).  Full disclosure, I am a lazy non-divorced person.  In NC, you have to wait a year before you can file for divorce.  After a year, my semi-ex and I have been far too lazy to file the paperwork (I'm not even sure how long it's been - over 10 years, lol).  One of us will eventually, I suppose (while it's mostly just laziness, my semi-ex also likes keeping me as his next of kin, because his parents are Jehovah's Witnesses and if he is in an accident, he knows my atheist ass will have him pumped full of that sweet, sweet O-pos).  That's just my background perspective, if it's relevant.  It's still my background perspective if it isn't relevant!

But, my semi-ex and I are very good friends.  He has been my "date" many times, especially for work functions.  A few years ago, I didn't even tell my current boyfriend I had a work Christmas party, and I just took my semi-ex.  Now, THIS was a case of things not being what they should, because I was worried my boyfriend at the time would get drunk and embarrass me whereas I knew my semi-ex would just be there to prop me up.  Plus, all my coworkers found it funny to meet my "husband".

Anyway, my point is is that I don't find it that odd that Frank is Dolores's stand in for her work events.  He clearly loves the camera - this doesn't seem like slave labor to me.  And I would think it extremely odd if he had a date at an event; it's Delores's work functions.  I think my ex is the bee's knees, but why would he bring a date to my work function?  If you aren't there with me, why are you there?

I definitely disagree that the reason Frank wasn't/"can't" be faithful is because he doesn't respect Dolores enough.  It could be a personal failing on his part of simply not having enough will power, or even more like an addiction.  I've known people who were going through recovery for alcohol or drug addiction, but had chosen not to try to repair relationships because they still didn't trust themselves not to fuck up again.  I don't think being monogamous is the be-all, end-all, but I do think if you tell someone you are going to be monogamous, you need to be.  So for someone to admit faithfulness isn't in his wheelhouse, and acts accordingly, I don't have a problem with that.  (I had a bigger problem in that statement about why he wasn't with Dolores because it assumed she wanted him back and his not keeping it in his pants was the only reason they weren't together NOW.)

Finally, I think they are setting a fine example for their kids.  I don't see it as Dolores has Frank's balls and won't let go.  To me, they seem like two people who have moved on from a romantic relationship and found something different that works for them.  I don't see where Dolores is holding a grudge towards Frank.  As far as him doing things for her, it makes sense to me.  Personally, my dad has passed away, I don't have siblings or in-laws, I've definitely asked my semi-ex to do lots of "guy" stuff when I've needed it, and it's certainly not because I feel like he owes me. I've actually stopped leaning on him like that, but only because I make enough money now to just pay people, and he has enough on his hands helping with his aging parents.  I'm sure their kids prefer their parents' unusual relationship to one where the parents can never even be in the same room.

ANYhow, obviously my perspective is different from most people's since most people just get a damn divorce and move on, but I just don't see the relationship between Frank and Dolores as some thing nefarious.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by lasu

[LibertarianSlut]

44 minutes ago, lasu said:

my semi-ex

I don’t understand this term.  It sounds like being a little bit pregnant 🤔. I assume it means “estranged husband.”  I’ll just go on to use that term moving forward.

52 minutes ago, lasu said:

It's still my background perspective if it isn't relevant!

I don’t think the story that was shared sheds favorable light on the situation between Dolores and Frank.  Judging by what you shared, you don’t want to be divorced, and you offered reasons as to why.  I don’t think it’s because of paperwork, because in ten years, there is a lot of paperwork that is done that is tedious, but we generally just do it, if we want the result enough.  If we don’t want it, for medical or other reasons, we don’t do it.  

Dolores and Frank divorced a long time ago, though, so this is like apples and oranges to me.  

55 minutes ago, lasu said:

He has been my "date" many times, especially for work functions.  A few years ago, I didn't even tell my current boyfriend I had a work Christmas party, and I just took my semi-ex.  Now, THIS was a case of things not being what they should, because I was worried my boyfriend at the time would get drunk and embarrass me whereas I knew my semi-ex would just be there to prop me up.  Plus, all my coworkers found it funny to meet my "husband".

Since it’s out there, I’m going to offer my opinion.  This...seems like a situation that can benefit from a fair bit of attention.  If a boyfriend is going to over-imbibe to the point that he is not a good candidate for a work event, and an estranged husband has to secretly stand-in instead...there is work to do.  There are conversations to be had.  There are decisions to be made.  

Obviously this whole situation isn’t working for Dolores, because she can’t even have a conversation about David like an adult; she has to run out of the room like a little kid.  If that’s “working”, what does dysfunction look like? 😄

If it was David as her date, the two of them could have hashed this out side-by-side with David and her working in tandem, as a couple does, but Dolores had to take the brunt of it all, which is another example of how her model is flawed.  This isn’t complicated to me.  

This is why monogamy, aka one on one partnerships, which has its challenges, has been the favored model of romantic relationships for millennia.  Because that is what works for human beings.  Singledom is also a viable option in 21st century America.  If someone has a boyfriend for certain arenas of their life, but a date for other arenas, and they are on reality TV, the onus is on them to prove it works better than the socially proven alternatives, so Dolores better get used to facing the questions (alone).  

On RH of Potomac, there are Robyn and Juan—a couple who is divorced, but live as if they are still married—and they get so much shit for it.  I think that’s actually more normal than Dolores splitting the baby this way, because at least Juan and Robyn have plans to reunite, whereas it appears that this is at least a semi-permanent arrangement for Dolores.  

She can do whatever she wants, as long as she is dealing with consenting adults.  I just think it’s dysfunctional, not just in the abstract, but for Dolores.  And I think that’s self-evident. 

People can say “this works out really good” and “she can be really good friends with her ex, and also have a boyfriend,” but it doesn’t seem like she’s very happy.  If I had a new Porsche and two shiny new residences, with closets for dresses the size of two rooms, I would be a lot happier than Dolores is now.  And that is because I already have the foundation—the loving and stable relationship with a partner with whom I have communication.  It seems like Dolores is desperately trying to have two things that don’t quite fit, but she’s so unhappy that she is enjoying neither.  

I think Dolores is doing this because she is uncomfortable being alone, and she needs therapy.  I also think that she is extremely materialistic in that she would rather deal with this fuckery and have new shit than to date a man with a lower income bracket who will love her and live life with her side by side.  It’s fun to take the piss out of Teresa, for all of her malapropisms and whatnot, but she wouldn’t be caught dead in this situation IMO.  None of them would.  Even Danielle, with all of her twisted shenanigans, never tried to cram this down our throats and expect no one to say boo.  

I also notice that when Dolores went on about her relationship with David about how good he is, and how he doesn’t yell and hit—she never said that they love each other.  Even Tom and Luann claimed to love each other and look how that turned out!

The anecdotes provided above prove only that there is another poster who understands why Dolores engages in her particular brand of antisocial behavior, but it doesn’t do much of anything to sway me to accept or applaud said behavior.

A rule of thumb that I observed is if someone finds themselves screaming at friends and abusing colleagues at a cocktail party over a man who couldn’t be bothered to be there...Houston, we have a problem. 

[Stats Queen]

3 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

think Dolores is doing this because she is uncomfortable being alone, and she needs therapy

 

On 5/3/2021 at 6:31 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Mark my words, because I’ve seen this before:  Frank is not free to be happy until Dolores is completely happy

 

On 5/3/2021 at 6:31 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

I know Dolores and Frank seem fun and light, but there is a dark underbelly to their relationship that her kids are seeing, where mom is keeping dad, her ex, on a leash for transgressions that occurred two decades ago, and her kids are far from stupid.

I agree with you on these points. 

I do think Dolores is uncomfortable with being alone and you hit the nail on the head. I enjoy her and Frank’s dynamic in terms that they do seem to be best friends. It reminds me of my sister and our late cousin, Dan, who were best friends and soulmates in that they were best friends who “understood each other”.

Nothing wrong with your best friend being of the opposite gender, but Frank and Delores were married and raised children together. They have a shared history that includes unfaithfulness on the part of one party. IMHO, there seems to be a lot of unresolved history that keeps making them be co-dependent. I won’t judge as it is not my relationship and I only thing I actually know about them is through an edited reality TV show. That being said, no amount of editing can change what is a pattern of behavior. 

However, I personally am now finding their relationship to be just exhausting and a convenient excuse when tough questions are asked. 

Frank just gives me the creeps and I think he cares more about being on TV than he does about any personal relationships (with maybe the except of Joe G actually kissing his ass)

Edited May 5, 2021 by Stats Queen

[LibertarianSlut]

27 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

I personally am now finding their relationship to be just exhausting and a convenient excuse when tough questions are asked. 

Frank just gives me the creeps and I think he cares more about being on TV than he does about any personal relationships

Perfectly stated. I admire your brevity.

To bolster our points that they are exhibiting unresolved issues and she’s got Frank on a leash, there is never a point when Frank has a girl around ever, not just in situations where Frank is appearing as Dolores’s “date.” For instance, this season and last season, when they went to the Jersey Shore, Teresa didn’t have a date. They were just group trips. Yet Frank never brings a female to accompany him. It’s clearly (to me) because Dolores doesn’t want to be embarrassed. Embarrassed by what though?  I thought they were “just friends.” 

And it is being passed down to their kids. Last season, when Gabby was home and Dolores was speaking hypothetically about Frank moving on, Gabby said, “my butthole just clenched when you said that.” And it was clear from the way Gabby said it that she was clenching on Dolores’s, and not her own, behalf. This is a veterinary student whose parents divorced when she was a baby! Why is she clenching about her dad moving on, unless there is something very wrong with her parents’ dynamic? 🤷‍♀️

40 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

no amount of editing can change what is a pattern of behavior

I just want to add that I was tricked because of the editing for so long. It just looked like a big, mashed up family where Dolores’s ex and boyfriend lived together, and aren’t they wonderful? 😍 What a cute commentary on the new normal!

It was definitely a process for the scales to fall from my eyes, but Dolores losing her shit and demanding to Frank that they “fucking go” from a party where Dolores was questioned about her house of cards, I completely realized the situation is FUBAR.

[BrindaWalsh]

To be fair though, Dolores is the cast member of the show, not Frank.  We see Dolores' life, and Frank through that lens, not Frank's life.  It is entirely possible that other women have been around - we just don't see or hear about them because they don't fit the narrative.  Maybe.  Other than knowing that Frank had a girlfriend her first season, and then they broke up which prompted him to move in with her in her second season, that's all we really know about Frank and his personal time. 

I think we are overthinking it.

I think Dolores gets what she needs from David on a physical level when they actually are together.  I think she gets the social/emotional needs covered by Frank.  This of course assumes that Dolores and Frank aren't boinking on the side and I'm not sure I believe that.  But let's just say for the purposes of this discussion that they haven't crossed that line since hey split.  I simply don't think she has found anybody who gets it all done for her and so we wind up here.

I also don't think David is ever going to marry her (he is married to his job) and I also think he wants absolutely NOTHING to do with RHONJ.   And to be fair, can you blame him on that last point?

ETA:  I just googled to see if Frank has a girlfriend however instead found out that Frankie has a girlfriend.  And there is definitely a Gia resemblance.  Perhaps it's his type, or just a common "aesthetic" but to me it was pretty obviously Gia 2.0.  

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by BrindaWalsh

[Stats Queen]

32 minutes ago, BrindaWalsh said:

To be fair though, Dolores is the cast member of the show, not Frank.  We see Dolores' life, and Frank through that lens, not Frank's life. 

You are so right, we are seeing this through Delores being the cast Member on that show - so we are obviously going to be looking through that lens. 

IMHO, The amount of time given to the husbands (and Frank) on the show is disproportionate to the time their counterparts are afforded on the other RH shows.

Also, while Delores is the cast member, It seems that in the last couple of seasons we have seen a huge focus on Delores and Frank, to the point where it is hard to disassociate the two. I personally place the blame of this dynamic on our TV screen on Satan Andy, who seems to be much more invested in the misogynistic stylings of real house husbands of NJ than the central female figures.

I think Bravo made a choice to not let Delores be her whole fully formed adult.

 

 

 

 

[Hiyo]

Quote

IMHO, The amount of time given to the husbands (and Frank) on the show is disproportionate to the time their counterparts are afforded on the other RH shows.

Having husbands/significant others on the show is a good way to get extra income from this show.

[BrindaWalsh]

8 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Having husbands/significant others on the show is a good way to get extra income from this show.

So with that statement and the 3 "contractors" on the show the most is it fair to say that they need the income more than Evan or Tony the Turk?  Just an observation that aligns with my theory that Melissa, Dolores and Margaret are living in a house of cards.  

Quote

 I personally place the blame of this dynamic on our TV screen on Satan Andy, who seems to be much more invested in the misogynistic stylings of real house husbands of NJ than the central female figures.

Every time I watch this show and see something that makes me mildly sick to my stomach, I get all pissed off that Andy Cohen is basically profiting off of the worst of women.  But then again, I keep watching, so I suppose I'm part of the problem.  

[Hiyo]

Quote

So with that statement and the 3 "contractors" on the show the most is it fair to say that they need the income more than Evan or Tony the Turk?  Just an observation that aligns with my theory that Melissa, Dolores and Margaret are living in a house of cards.  

Not sure if that's a smoking gun, lots of HWs who are very affluent also have spouses and other family members appear on their shows, like LVP, Yolanda, Adrienne from BH (well, the last 2 when they had husbands on the show), Kandi from Atlanta, Monique from Potomac, Heather from OC, Stephanie from Dallas...granted, in quite a few of those cases the husbands would also be promoting their businesses, not just themselves, though even then probably didn't need the extra income from this show.

Melissa, Dolores, and Margaret probably do need the income their husbands bring in from this show, much more than Jenn and Jackie do. Even if they don't need it, this is a good gig for Jenn's husband, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a few extra bookings since he has been on this show.

[lasu]

15 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I don’t understand this term.  It sounds like being a little bit pregnant 🤔. I assume it means “estranged husband.”  I’ll just go on to use that term moving forward.

I know it's not technically wrong, but I wish you wouldn't.  "Estranged" has a negative connotation (think if I said my "estranged mother") that I have to say I resent.  My Semi Ex (I'll capitalize it so it's his name rather than a technical term) and I have a very good relationship, and it's easily one of the most important relationships in my life, and I hope it always is.  

 

11 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

And it is being passed down to their kids. Last season, when Gabby was home and Dolores was speaking hypothetically about Frank moving on, Gabby said, “my butthole just clenched when you said that.” And it was clear from the way Gabby said it that she was clenching on Dolores’s, and not her own, behalf. This is a veterinary student whose parents divorced when she was a baby! Why is she clenching about her dad moving on, unless there is something very wrong with her parents’ dynamic? 🤷‍♀️

 You're misremembering.  Gabby clenched over the thought of another woman moving into David's house.

 

15 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Since it’s out there, I’m going to offer my opinion.  This...seems like a situation that can benefit from a fair bit of attention.  If a boyfriend is going to over-imbibe to the point that he is not a good candidate for a work event, and an estranged husband has to secretly stand-in instead...there is work to do.  There are conversations to be had.  There are decisions to be made.  

Right - I should have been clearer that was a THEN current boyfriend, not a current boyfriend.

 

15 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Judging by what you shared, you don’t want to be divorced, and you offered reasons as to why.  I don’t think it’s because of paperwork, because in ten years, there is a lot of paperwork that is done that is tedious, but we generally just do it, if we want the result enough.  If we don’t want it, for medical or other reasons, we don’t do it.  

I don't think it's fair not to take the things I say at face value.  When I say we haven't divorced mainly because we are too lazy to do the paperwork, I mean it.  Yes, we do lots of tedious things if we either have to, or want the result of the paperwork badly enough.  It's fair to say I don't want to be divorced enough to do the paperwork.  It's not fair to say I don't want to be divorced, hard stop.  I don't want to be married either, and I would really like to have my "maiden" name (which is what I use, 90% of people in my life don't know me by any other name) back legally, but just not enough to do the paperwork.  It's not deep.

 

15 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Obviously this whole situation isn’t working for Dolores, because she can’t even have a conversation about David like an adult; she has to run out of the room like a little kid.  If that’s “working”, what does dysfunction look like? 😄

I don't disagree with the idea that Dolores isn't happy in her relationship.  I disagree that she is unhappy because of Frank.  I think you are putting causation where there is correlation.  

 

15 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Dolores and Frank divorced a long time ago, though, so this is like apples and oranges to me.

Again, I disagree.  The parallel is two people who used to be in love and in a romantic relationship who become good, platonic friends after.  I only bring up that My Semi Ex and I aren't legally divorced because if I just said my "ex husband" I would be implying something (that we are divorced) that isn't true.  And certainly one of the reasons that Frank and Dolores don't seem dark and co-dependent to me is because I have a relationship that is not that different.  For several years after our marriage ended, I still spend holidays and family vacations with MSE's family, because they are still my family.  I call them my Out Laws now.  MSE has come on vacation with me.  I've also gone on vacation completely alone, so it's not like I'm afraid or not capable.  It's ebbed and flowed as we have been in other relationships, but I've appreciated still being part of his family, especially since I don't have much of my own.  I can, and have, spend holidays and vacations alone, but sometimes it's nice to have somewhere to go where people care about you too.  MSE also stayed with me after a break up.  It feels like apples and apples to me.

And I still don't understand why Frank would bring a date to Dolores's work.  And am I remembering right that when we were introduced to them, Frank had a girlfriend he lived with and Dolores was single?  That would indicate to me that Dolores doesn't have him on a leash at all.  Frank seems to both enjoy his relationship with Dolores (he doesn't seem like he's trapped and just waiting for someone to take D off his hands and set him free) AND his role on the show.  I just don't see the creep that others do.

16 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

This is why monogamy, aka one on one partnerships, which has its challenges, has been the favored model of romantic relationships for millennia.  Because that is what works for human beings.

For most, even the vast majority of, human beings - sure.  Nothing wrong with monogamy, and if a person SAYS they are going to be monogamous, they should be.  That said, I don't think there's anything wrong or "less than" with relationships that have rules that don't include monogamy.  What works for you, works for you.

I hope it doesn't feel like I'm trying to pick everything you say apart.  I honestly enjoy debating with someone who has a different opinion on low stakes issues like reality show cast members.

[amarante]

On 5/2/2021 at 1:15 PM, Hiyo said:

May get a degree in something you actually enjoy and follow up on that after graduation would be a suggestion.

This is good in theory but I know almost no people who would work if they didn't need the money. I have "enjoyed" my jobs but I certainly wouldn't work on them if I didn't have to.

There are some jobs that people might do even if they didn't need the money because they are getting some form of emotional satisfaction but - at least in my experience - those types of jobs either aren't 24/7 positions where most of your time is spent working or is at such a high level that you are wielding enormous power and influence. Or is the kind of job like tenured college professor where you don't have enormous stress and the hours are great.

[lightninggirl]

On 4/29/2021 at 6:18 PM, Kdawg82 said:

Who cares about Delores' relationship with David? Whatever works.  People have beliefs of their own about what relationships after divorce or widowing looks like for them. It's personal.  Yes, she spoke differently last season and is "fine with things" this season. So freakin what? Can't be that invested in it. But of course the other women will gossip about it because that's their friend/coworker and they a) are literally paid to gossip and b) it's human nature.  

She gets a Porsche and doesn't have to deal with a ring + the baggage that comes with one? And she gets squired around by a guy who actually loves going places with her and is her sounding board and her protector? Fuck, man. Sign me UP!!!

[lightninggirl]

On 5/5/2021 at 9:44 AM, lasu said:

I know it's not technically wrong, but I wish you wouldn't.  "Estranged" has a negative connotation (think if I said my "estranged mother") that I have to say I resent.  My Semi Ex (I'll capitalize it so it's his name rather than a technical term) and I have a very good relationship, and it's easily one of the most important relationships in my life, and I hope it always is.  

Again, I disagree.  The parallel is two people who used to be in love and in a romantic relationship who become good, platonic friends after.  I only bring up that My Semi Ex and I aren't legally divorced because if I just said my "ex husband" I would be implying something (that we are divorced) that isn't true.  And certainly one of the reasons that Frank and Dolores don't seem dark and co-dependent to me is because I have a relationship that is not that different.  For several years after our marriage ended, I still spend holidays and family vacations with MSE's family, because they are still my family.  I call them my Out Laws now.  MSE has come on vacation with me.  I've also gone on vacation completely alone, so it's not like I'm afraid or not capable.  It's ebbed and flowed as we have been in other relationships, but I've appreciated still being part of his family, especially since I don't have much of my own.  I can, and have, spend holidays and vacations alone, but sometimes it's nice to have somewhere to go where people care about you too.  MSE also stayed with me after a break up.  It feels like apples and apples to me.

I fully and completely support you here. I have been married for 25 years and we separated for one year at about the eight-year mark, and a divorce is a LOT to have to deal with after you've been with someone for a decade. I never personally jumped to file because I only had a part-time job, was in my first year of a master's degree, and had two elementary-aged children full-time + a house to take care of - and I also was diagnosed with cancer and had to do two years of treatments (one year during our separation). I did not want to lose my health, homeowner's, and auto insurance by filing, and I was so overwhelmed that I just stalled when it came to my marital relationship. I got along with "the outlaws" very well just like you - I still call them that even though I reconciled with their son. 😂 I love that you can lean on them and spend quality time with them, and I think that you are in pole position to see that Frank will always be family to Dolores even if others think that he's just a camera whore. 😉

[WhatAmIWatching]

On 5/5/2021 at 12:08 AM, Hiyo said:

Having husbands/significant others on the show is a good way to get extra income from this show.

This! I'm vaguely remembering an earlier season when Dolores said something about Frank pays for all her bills and expenses. I wonder if this is still true.

 If Dolores didn't have Frank on the show, what would they show? Her talking to her dogs, having more surgeries, planning the next room reno in her house? She brings not much, except how she supports her friend of the season (and Teresa). She's very guarded and closed.

As said by others, I also believe Dr David doesn't want to be on camera, but I also suspect either he (or Dolores) doesn't want him around the friends that are the cast. The SM fights and info nuggets drops these franchise casts engage in can be quite damaging. We currently have no idea if he spends time with her outside-the-show friends or family. Her kids (and Frank) seem to know him quite well, and really like him.

   In regard to her relationships, it seems she's got her cake and is enjoying eating it, too. She's got a good friendship (and gossip-about-the-cast partner) in Frank, who seems to have known the cast members for many years, and who also has a free enough schedule to cater to her needs (and possibly contributing to her financial well-being if we go by old season statements). With David, she's got the romantic relationship, and a place away from the group -as it seems he doesn't/didn't run in the same circles.- He's super focused on his career, so she has Frank to fill in where David can't or won't. Both men seem to appreciate what the other brings to Dolor's life, and know what the boundaries are. (Though I do agree Dolores doesn't seem happy with the stagnation in her David relationship. 
  We still call my sister's ex 'Uncle' though they've been divorced for many years. Family is how you make it. (<--stolen and modified from Joe Dirt's "Home is where you make it" lol)

 On Frank not bringing a date to the rhonj things: work thing may be it, but he also may not want the person to have the full-out media and SM scrutiny and doxxing. I know I wouldn't.

 

Now for a bit of sheer pettiness, neither she nor Frank can pronounce ecstatic. essstatic. (And why why wasn't Frank or anyone else wearing a dust mask when sawing that drywall?!)

Edited May 17, 2021 by WhatAmIWatching
Ugh forgot a sentence. I'm not fixing grammar, apologies for the bad spots

[SweetieDarling]

5 hours ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

 

Now for a bit of sheer pettiness, neither she nor Frank can pronounce ecstatic. essstatic. (And why why wasn't Frank or anyone else wearing a dust mask when sawing that drywall?!)

YES! I notice the "esstatic" thing too (my cousin, also from Jersey, pronounces it the same way)

...and, yep, not a drop cloth, dust mask or pair of safety goggles in sight! I thought they were professionals. Professional BS artists, ,maybe,

[RealHousewife]

On 4/29/2021 at 12:59 AM, funnygirl said:

Dolores is a big girl, she can make her own decisions and take care of herself. And she got a Porsche for her birthday? God Bless!

Neanderthal Gorga was gross for calling her broken. 

It was good to hear Dolores voice how Frank is a great guy but she was really hurt in that relationship - maybe now people will stop wanting her to get back together with him. Dolores and Frank have a great non-romantic partnership, what they have works for their family. 

 

Agree. I could think of worse birthdays.

I often get a kick out of Gorga, but this was an instance he annoyed me too. He was out of line for what he said to Dolores. 

Exactly. The dynamic is unusual, part of what makes it good TV, but it works for them! I applaud Dolores for not going back to someone who hurt her and for still seeing all the good in Frank and being mature with the father of her kids. 

There is a big difference between having opinions and a gang-up at a party. All of them have opinions about one another's personal lives. It's a bunch of them voicing their opinions at once, saying Dolores is broken, etc., that I found really mean. Maybe the relationship with David isn't perfect, but he seems like a pretty decent guy. Dolores has a lot of love in her life period. She's also a stunningly beautiful woman who could be married to someone if she really just wanted to be married to someone. 

 

Edited March 8 by RealHousewife