S02.E07: Our Answer for Everything

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Layton and Till investigate the murders. Wilford leads Miss Audrey down a dark path.

Airing Monday, March 8, 2021.

 

[Auntie Anxiety]

What a mess. 

[AnimeMania]

So Wilford has two dogs now.

[redpencil]

Ruth was the best part of this episode. But the continued Wilford delusion among apparently 75% of the train is incredibly annoying.

[ReganX]

Ruth was used incredibly effectively in this episode. When she first found out the truth about Melanie's ruse, I expected her to be livid with her for using her as an enforcer in the Tail rather than doing her own dirty work. I am taking her reaction to Winnie's fear, and her realization of just how wrong what she did in the Tail was, as a positive sign in terms of her feelings towards the real Wilford, who laid down these rules.

Speaking of the rules, I would love to see the pamphlet or T&Cs document for passage on the train, given that the laws and punishments were set out. It doesn't surprise me for a moment that Wilford would include clauses about freezing people's arms off, but I wonder what the reaction among the passengers and employees was when they saw that in black and white for the first time.

The train choosing Wilford was disappointing but not surprising.

He has basically been built up to god-like status, and returned from the dead at a time when the train was in chaos. I don't think that any one leader could have held the train together under the circumstances; Melanie wasn't trusted because of her seven-year long lie, and virtually any other choice would have been divisive because, no matter what class they were from, they would be assumed to be biased in favour of their own. If the revolution had happened earlier, or Wilford's return had happened later, and Snowpiercer was able to establish a council of elected representatives and draw up a constitution, as planned, fewer people might have been prepared to hand Wilford the keys. 

The tableau at the end, with Wilford standing with Miss Audrey and Alex, like he's a family man, or a monarch surveying his kingdom, his consort and his heir by his side, was creepy.

[Auntie Anxiety]

My son went to high school with Tom Lipinski (Kevin, the slipper licker). If I remember correctly, his mother was a psychiatrist. Wonder if she gave him any tips on how to act like a crazy Wilford fanboy.

[rmontro]

6 hours ago, ReganX said:

He has basically been built up to god-like status, and returned from the dead at a time when the train was in chaos. I don't think that any one leader could have held the train together under the circumstances; Melanie wasn't trusted because of her seven-year long lie, and virtually any other choice would have been divisive because, no matter what class they were from, they would be assumed to be biased in favour of their own.

Things have been pretty crummy on the train since it started, sounds like.  Except for the fact that they're still alive.  The one thing they haven't had or tried since the beginning was the original plan - to have Wilford in charge and controlling his own train.  They've been living under one usurper government after another.  In a lot of people's minds, they probably see this as a way to set things right.  They just don't know what a massive creeper the real Wilford is.  That slipper licking was a bit much.  But it was a surprise to see Kevin alive.

It was nice to see Ruth continue on her redemptive arc. 

[edhopper]

This episode largely bored me. Especially the Audrey/Kevin scenes.

Hard to talk about this show without the obvious political analogy they are making.

But I get that is taboo on this forum.

[showme]

I skipped the Audrey/Kevin scenes. what happened in them? Is Kevin in love with Wilford?

[Dowel Jones]

She went cult leader associate on him, convincing him that he was lowly scum, bug on a windshield type of stuff, and that he owed Wilford his life and that the only way to shed his pain would be to pledge complete fealty to Wilford.  Kevin did so, and, on command, licked Wilford's toes.

[Etta Place]

It seems like the best thing any opposition leader could do at this point is give the people exactly what they want - Wilford in charge. The regrets will be pretty massive and although they will have to (potentially) contend with an ice giant, at least this time there won't be any armed jackboots between them and overthrowing the governing power.

[ReganX]

12 hours ago, rmontro said:

Things have been pretty crummy on the train since it started, sounds like.  Except for the fact that they're still alive.  The one thing they haven't had or tried since the beginning was the original plan - to have Wilford in charge and controlling his own train.  They've been living under one usurper government after another.  In a lot of people's minds, they probably see this as a way to set things right.  They just don't know what a massive creeper the real Wilford is.  That slipper licking was a bit much.  But it was a surprise to see Kevin alive.

It was nice to see Ruth continue on her redemptive arc. 

I don't know about that.

Things were obviously terrible for the Tail, but First Class were enjoying their luxuries, and Second Class appear to have been living comfortably, and Third Class were doing more or less okay. As of the start of the series, the paying passengers and the crew basically seem to have what they signed up for. The bees dying off and the extinction of the cows seem to have been the main major disasters on a seven-year journey.

Ruth believed that order kept the train running, and I doubt that she was alone in her belief. Everybody had their appointed place, and knew what was expected of them and what they could expect in return. Everybody knew the rules and the price for breaking them.

The events of Season One shook up the order of life on the train, and it makes sense to me that a lot of the passengers are unnerved by it. Nobody wants to end up with less than they already have, whether that's a First Class passenger worried about having to double-up on suites or a Third Class passenger who thinks that their rations and space will be even more restricted to accommodate the Tailies.

I'd say that there is a lot of focus on the negatives of Melanie's stewardship of Snowpiercer, while the positives are largely ignored, so they conclude that Wilford must be capable of doing a better job than the Wilford imposter.

Couple that with the image of Wilford as a visionary saviour, given that only a few people know that he had little, if any, interest in the long-term sustainability of Snowpiercer as an ark, and the majority of people other than Tailies favouring the idea of putting him back in charge is logical.

I was surprised to see Kevin alive but, with hindsight, I probably shouldn't have been, given that Wilford didn't tell Alex that he was dead when she asked about him. Even on Big Alice, questions would have been asked.

[Pachengala]

My husband was bored but I enjoyed this episode. I’m enjoying this whole season, really. I like the way they’ve pushed the women to the forefront: Melanie, Ruth, Audrey (though I find the actress playing her to be *severely* lacking in the charisma they want us to believe she wields), and my girl Bess Till. 
 

I didn’t see the pastor being the mole at all and gasped at the reveal. I love that they subverted the ‘mystical negro’ trope in that way. They’re really allowing their women and POC characters to be nuanced, flawed, and grey, something usually reserved for white male characters in popular media. I’m loving it. 
 

Finally, the corkscrew scene was gorgeous, as was the Tibetan flags scene. 

[iMonrey]

I'm out. I made it halfway through this one and finally realized I just didn't care. Too much other content on TV to waste time on this.

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, Pachengala said:

I didn’t see the pastor being the mole at all and gasped at the reveal.

I had my suspicions from Early O'Clock!

4 hours ago, Pachengala said:

Finally, the corkscrew scene was gorgeous, as was the Tibetan flags scene.

I think in railroad, uh, circles it's called a 'helix'. Certainly the model railroad guys call it that.

[Pachengala]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

I had my suspicions from Early O'Clock!

I think in railroad, uh, circles it's called a 'helix'. Certainly the model railroad guys call it that.

Re: the pastor, so did Husbo! Subtext and the like are completely lost on me; I am NOT observant, but it’s okay because I’m always surprised. 
 

Roche called it ‘the corkscrew’ to his family [and yay! to meeting Roche’s family! Is this the first we’ve seen of them?) so I bet that’s a nickname or something. I’m sure Ben, Javi, and Melanie roll their eyes and are like “helix OMG.” 
 

I wonder if the showrunners are aware how unpopular the LJ character is with the audience and that’s why we haven’t seen her that much. If they’re planning for a surprise LJ power move later in the season I’m going to be pissed. And I don’t trust Osweiler’s motives either. Space ‘em both, I say. 

[tennisgurl]

I guess I cant be surprised that the train still wants Wilford, they have spent years building up this cult of personality around Wilford and now the man himself arrives when the train is going through all of this turbulence and change, I can see why they want him around. I don't know how long that will last when they actually get to know him though, the dude is all kinds of creepy. I doubt he will have much interaction with people, but he clearly cant help being a horrible and petty tyrant and his own people are clearly scared of him, it wont be surprising if everyone comes to regret this pretty quickly. 

I do find it more questionable that everyone is so quick to blame the Tailies for this, it feels like the writers just need to make things worse and get Wilford more wins before he gets defeated and hopefully gets left behind alone in his car again. Even if they still don't much like the Tallies even after everything that happened, this just doesn't seem like something they would do. Whenever they have fought they have just straight up rushed people, them sneaking around murdering a ton of people in some kind of coordinated attack just doesn't seem like their style. But angry mobs gonna angry mob even when it doesn't actually make sense. 

If the mobs want to attack someone, LJ is right there you guys...

Ouch, Till and Layton really didn't call this one. They played right into the Wilford factions hands and now eight people are dead, angry mobs are attacking tallies, and shit has managed to get even worse. I knew it was the preacher last week when he was going on about them needing a "new shepherd" to Till. At least Ruth has really stepped up to the plate. I have loved everything they have done with Ruth this season, they are giving her a great redemption arc, especially when she was so often in the background in season one. Nothing like a kid running away from you in terror to really hit how badly you've messed up. She even managed to shame the mob into not attacking Layton or Pike, or at least she stopped them temporarily, and if the former queen of the Wilford fan club can realize what a monster the guy is, hopefully everything else will get it soon. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I knew it was the preacher last when when he was going on about them needing a "new shepherd" in the last episode.

Yes, it was that "New Shepherd" remark that made me sure he would make a power-grab.

 

[Tachi Rocinante]

So was this happening during the last episode and the timelines haven't converged yet?

[ReganX]

9 minutes ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

So was this happening during the last episode and the timelines haven't converged yet?

It seems to be. I don't think that this episode covered more than a few days.

2.04 covered the first contact with Melanie, which happened on Day 4.

It's unclear how much time 2.05 covered. I'd guess little enough, since Josie doesn't seem to be on Big Alice for very long. Snowpiercer has launched 11 probes, which happened on or before Day 13.

I'd say that Melanie has been off the train between two and three weeks as of this episode.

My guess is that the season finale will show Alex seeing Melanie running for the train.

[blackwing]

On 3/10/2021 at 2:41 PM, iMonrey said:

I'm out. I made it halfway through this one and finally realized I just didn't care. Too much other content on TV to waste time on this.

I’m at the same point.  I truly don’t care.  I was maybe paying 3/4 attention and I don’t know exactly what happened for sure.  I think it was revealed that elegant first class black lady was the hooded killer, the priest was a mole for Wilford, Pike is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, Till almost died.

The actress who plays Audrey thinks she is sex on a stick and svengalied Kevin into worshipping Wilford.   See, I thought that was all a flashback to when Kevin met Wilford but now I am reading here that he is alive?  How and why.  And I guess I don’t really care.

Lots of focus on Till and Audrey and I really dislike both.  There are only three episodes left and then I think unless something truly spectacular happens, I won’t be back for next season.  
 

I still want to know what happened to Jinju.

[blackwing]

Just realized that I don't think I saw Frozie at all this episode?  What happened to her?  She was taken to Big Alice to get treatment last episode... and then what?  Is she still there?  I thought I saw her, but I think it was that cook that she switched places with last season?  The one with a furrowed brow that looks like a Cro Magnon version of Frozie?

On 3/10/2021 at 11:56 AM, Pachengala said:

I didn’t see the pastor being the mole at all and gasped at the reveal. I love that they subverted the ‘mystical negro’ trope in that way. They’re really allowing their women and POC characters to be nuanced, flawed, and grey, something usually reserved for white male characters in popular media. I’m loving it. 

I have been paying so little attention, I didn't even realise that there was a mole.  I guess I missed the explanation of why he did it.  Was he loyal to Wilford the whole time?  What is the explanation then for last season when we didn't see him?  Was he enamored with Wilford and then disillusioned when he found out Wilford was Melanie, and then overjoyed when he found out Wilford was alive and decided to be a mole?  When did he even make contact?  This is my issue with new characters introduced during a subsequent season on a show like this.  We know the universe is self-contained.  He can't have just wandered onto the train from the outside all of a sudden.  Maybe I didn't care enough to find out, but did they even explain what he was doing all last season?  And now he's dead.

Did they also explain why Elegant First Class Black Lady did what she did?  I do believe I remember her from last season, she was in the First Class meeting and then either this season or last season she was complaining about how she paid good money for her ticket in First Class and that she deserved the First Class treatment.  Is that why she killed all the breachmen?  Because she was upset that "we are one train"?  Those breachmen were among the physically strongest people on the train... I find it a bit hard to believe that this pampered executive would have been able to take all of them by surprise and kill them.

On 3/10/2021 at 6:05 PM, Pachengala said:

I wonder if the showrunners are aware how unpopular the LJ character is with the audience and that’s why we haven’t seen her that much. If they’re planning for a surprise LJ power move later in the season I’m going to be pissed. And I don’t trust Osweiler’s motives either. Space ‘em both, I say. 

My list would include those two (thank you for the name Osweiller, apparently I believe I have been calling him Osman), Pike, Wilford, you're-no-sexpot Audrey, useless sad sack Zarah, perpetually pinch faced "I smell a fart" they-had-to-find-me-something-to-do Till, and you're-not-the-revolutionary-great-leader-you-think-you-are Layton.  So basically, almost the entire train.  I would want to see a train run by Melanie, Ben, the two Last Australians, and a magically reappeared Jinju, who has been swimming like a mermaid in the Ocean Car this entire season.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 3/10/2021 at 7:05 PM, Pachengala said:

I wonder if the showrunners are aware how unpopular the LJ character is with the audience and that’s why we haven’t seen her that much. If they’re planning for a surprise LJ power move later in the season I’m going to be pissed. And I don’t trust Osweiler’s motives either. Space ‘em both, I say. 

How has someone not slapped the shit out of her just on general principles? Why is she not more of a target for passengers' anger?

On 3/11/2021 at 11:08 AM, tennisgurl said:

Ouch, Till and Layton really didn't call this one. They played right into the Wilford factions hands and now eight people are dead, angry mobs are attacking tallies, and shit has managed to get even worse. I knew it was the preacher last week when he was going on about them needing a "new shepherd" to Till. At least Ruth has really stepped up to the plate. I have loved everything they have done with Ruth this season, they are giving her a great redemption arc, especially when she was so often in the background in season one. Nothing like a kid running away from you in terror to really hit how badly you've messed up. She even managed to shame the mob into not attacking Layton or Pike, or at least she stopped them temporarily, and if the former queen of the Wilford fan club can realize what a monster the guy is, hopefully everything else will get it soon. 

Great scenes with Ruth--they finally had her reckon with her past, and beautifully.

Really liked this episode. But boy do they like bringing people back from the dead--first Frozie, now Kevin the Bootlicker.

[Netfoot]

20 hours ago, blackwing said:

I’m at the same point.  I truly don’t care.  I was maybe paying 3/4 attention and I don’t know exactly what happened for sure.

Snowpiercer is a perfect example of a one-season story, scratching around for a plot to justify season two.

I've reached the stage where I "watch" while preparing my meal. I catch an occasional glimpse while moving back and forth past the door in the kitchen, and hear most of the dialogue... If things go on as they are, pretty soon I simply won't be bothered.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Netfoot

[Auntie Anxiety]

Shows like this really piss me off. The writers have absolutely no respect for the viewers and toss a ton of plot lines against the wall to see if any stick, but none of them are interesting nor do they make any sense. We are not an audience of idiots and I don’t like being talked down to. I’ll finish out the season (I’m someone who finishes tv shows and books, even if they suck) but even my low standards are too high for this dreck.