S19.E03: Heather Heying, Bret Weinstein, Van Jones, James Pogue

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Guests:

• Heather Heying & Bret Weinstein, Evolutionary Biologists, co-hosts of The Dark Horse podcast, and co-authors of the forthcoming book A Hunter-Gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century
• Van Jones, CNN Political Commentator and CEO of REFORM Alliance
• James Pogue, Journalist and Contributing Editor at Harper's Magazine.

Original air date 2021.01.29

[Gothish520]

Bill just called me out with that wine t shirt New Rule.

[revbfc]

Why did we get a 15-minute discussion about discussing whether COVID-19 was made in a lab?  Discussing having a discussion doesn’t advance our knowledge of the issue. It just comes off as whining.

What would have been productive?  Bringing actual proof that it was lab made (or not).  I would have also accepted a discussion about how Trump pulling out of the WHO harmed us, and the Herculean job we have now that we’re back.

On a personal note, it was cool to find out that Henry Waxman lives (or perhaps works) in my neighborhood.  It always makes me happy to know that so many interesting people are nearby.

[Caseysgirl]

I enjoyed the segment about Henry Waxman and he seems to be an affable guy as well as a productive member of society. Glad to see someone giving him and all the other “policy wonks” who actually keep things running their props.  All the charisma in the world won’t keep the lights on, as we’ve sadly discovered in the last 4 years.

[Robert Lynch]

5 hours ago, revbfc said:

Why did we get a 15-minute discussion about discussing whether COVID-19 was made in a lab?  Discussing having a discussion doesn’t advance our knowledge of the issue. It just comes off as whining.

What would have been productive?  Bringing actual proof that it was lab made (or not).  I would have also accepted a discussion about how Trump pulling out of the WHO harmed us, and the Herculean job we have now that we’re back.

On a personal note, it was cool to find out that Henry Waxman lives (or perhaps works) in my neighborhood.  It always makes me happy to know that so many interesting people are nearby.

I couldn't get into that topic. Sorry...

[iMonrey]

I thought the discussion with the two scientists was surprisingly reasonable, a rare feat for Bill these days. Although is kind of scared the shit out of me. It sounds like we may never get rid of this COVID thing.

Quote

Why did we get a 15-minute discussion about discussing whether COVID-19 was made in a lab?  Discussing having a discussion doesn’t advance our knowledge of the issue. It just comes off as whining.

Sure, I would like to have heard why he's 90% sure the virus came out of a lab. But he was making a valid, if different, point. The very suggestion that it came from a lab was instantly labeled a crazy conspiracy theory and that doesn't help science. 

I fully expected Bill to go full-stop anti-vaccer but between the three of them they managed to make the more reasonable point that every vaccine has risks and those are sometimes downplayed because of anti-vaccers. 

I thought the panel discussion was mostly unconstructive. A lot of hand wringing about Marjorie Taylor Greene and why it's now OK to threaten the lives of your co-workers. News flash, it's not. It you're not going to get into the substance of how we got to this point then don't raise the subject.

[deirdra]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I thought the panel discussion was mostly unconstructive. A lot of hand wringing about Marjorie Taylor Greene and why it's now OK to threaten the lives of your co-workers. News flash, it's not. It you're not going to get into the substance of how we got to this point then don't raise the subject.

It is exhausting when Bill (and Van Jones) constantly interrupt others mid-sentence so nobody can finish their thought before being sent on a different track.  It happened last week too.  If Bill had let the scientists finish their sentences, they would have taken ~5 minutes, not 15.

Edited January 30, 2021 by deirdra

[heatherchandler]

I enjoyed the scientists and would have listened to an hour of them.  

[Milburn Stone]

Skipped right over the panel discussion, but the scientists had useful information to impart and the comedy "hunks" were all pretty good.

[BrownBear2012]

10 hours ago, revbfc said:

Why did we get a 15-minute discussion about discussing whether COVID-19 was made in a lab?  Discussing having a discussion doesn’t advance our knowledge of the issue. It just comes off as whining.

What would have been productive?  Bringing actual proof that it was lab made (or not).  I would have also accepted a discussion about how Trump pulling out of the WHO harmed us, and the Herculean job we have now that we’re back.

On a personal note, it was cool to find out that Henry Waxman lives (or perhaps works) in my neighborhood.  It always makes me happy to know that so many interesting people are nearby.

The "COVID virus escaped from a lab" theory is a far right conspiracy theory that should, if hasn't already, be debunked. This is a convenient way to blame the Chinese for using a deadly virus to wipe out Western society as well as their own! How absurd. Every public health doctor/infectious disease expert I've read or watched seems to concur that this virus probably started in the wet market in Wu Han. Specifically from an infected bat/bats that were being sold at that market for food. That's how Ebola started...humans eating monkey meat that naturally has the Ebola virus. Bush meat is loaded with viruses and other harmful things to humans. That wet market sold all kinds of bush meat and other things that really have no nutritional value at all. Another source of viral contamination is human encroachment on forests/jungles etc... plowing them down for development. The animals there migrate to other places where human and livestock live...it's only a matter of time that the livestock become infected with these viruses and pass it along to the consumers of these domesticated animals. There will be other viruses in the future because of this that will be as explosive as COVID.

[angelamh66]

The show this week was much better than last week. However, in the discussion with the scientists, Bill kept saying that some of the vaccines contain the Coronavirus when the scientists had made it abundantly clear multiple times that none of the vaccines contain actual Coronavirus. 

[aghst]

It's two scientists who are part of the so-called Intellectual Dark Web.

Apparently they're big with the Joe Rogan crowd.

There are very few people saying this came from some lab.  In fact, there are signs that the virus existed in the fall of 2019 in Italy, months before the big breakout in Wuhan.  That isn't to say it originated there, just that we can't assume Wuhan was ground zero.

I understand the argument that mRNA vaccines are new technology, that it's never been injected in a lot of people.  mRNA has been researched and developed for years.  That is why Moderna were able to formulate a vaccine in January of last year.  They didn't invent mRNA just in response to the pandemic.

But by now, millions if not tens of millions of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have been injected in the past 4-6 weeks or so.  Over 30% of the population of Israel have been vaccinated with the Pfizer mRNA vaccine.

If they turn you into a zombie, I guess we'll see soon enough.  We should also see if it slows down the number of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths in Israel and other places which have rolled out the vaccine to a high percentage of their populations.

[link417]

It seems Bill isn’t familiar with what “nuance” means, because it was surprisingly lacking from his discussion with the scientists. Nuance isn’t just pushing whatever anti-mainstream view that Bill endorses.

IMHO, the lab theory hasn’t just been dismissed due to politicization and knee-jerk reactions, it’s also the fact that some major figures pushing that theory are documented xenophobes who are short on actual evidence, yet they present the theory as fact and weave an entire narrative around it. If they wanted to discuss the issue with nuance, they should have at least paid lip service to that perspective instead of simply reducing it to political tribalism.

[heatherchandler]

On 1/30/2021 at 2:59 PM, BrownBear2012 said:

The "COVID virus escaped from a lab" theory is a far right conspiracy theory that should, if hasn't already, be debunked. This is a convenient way to blame the Chinese for using a deadly virus to wipe out Western society as well as their own! How absurd. Every public health doctor/infectious disease expert I've read or watched seems to concur that this virus probably started in the wet market in Wu Han. Specifically from an infected bat/bats that were being sold at that market for food. That's how Ebola started...humans eating monkey meat that naturally has the Ebola virus. Bush meat is loaded with viruses and other harmful things to humans. That wet market sold all kinds of bush meat and other things that really have no nutritional value at all. Another source of viral contamination is human encroachment on forests/jungles etc... plowing them down for development. The animals there migrate to other places where human and livestock live...it's only a matter of time that the livestock become infected with these viruses and pass it along to the consumers of these domesticated animals. There will be other viruses in the future because of this that will be as explosive as COVID.

The scientists made a great point that the virus doesn’t behave like most infections.  It’s clearly been “stretched” and bulked up like they said.  They made sense.  
 

They didn’t say it was germ warfare, they made the point that studying and manipulating viruses is something that is done, and the Wuhan lab was doing just that.  It was probably accidentally brought out of the lab.

That being said,  I’m not a fan of wet markets so if they are banned because of misinformation I’m ok with that.

Edited February 1, 2021 by heatherchandler

[tessaray]

If Covid had started here, the whole lab escape vs wild animal transmission would be important because we would need to know if a lab needed to be shutdown, regulations needed to be updated, safety processes needed to be implemented, etc. What difference it makes at this point, I'm not sure. China is never going to be transparent about it. And research is still important, despite the risks. 

What I found odd is how eager Bill was to promote it. 

[Victor the Crab]

I quite liked Bill's New Rules sermon, although calling his award the "Baldi" after Henry Waxman was kinda on the mean side. At least Waxman was a good sport about it. I wish politicians were more like Waxman, who instead of standing in front of a microphone telling people what they plan on doing, actually spends less time, if any, in front of one and more time sitting behind the scenes and actually doing stuff for the people. He was truly an unsung hero.

Would someone please try and convince Bill to invite Dr. Anthony Fauci on his show. There's no gag order on him so he's free to talk to anyone. That way, he can set Bill straight about Covid and the vaccines so that he doesn't come across as some anti-vaxer doing more harm than good.

[RealHousewife]

On 2/1/2021 at 11:32 PM, Victor the Crab said:

I quite liked Bill's New Rules sermon, although calling his award the "Baldi" after Henry Waxman was kinda on the mean side. At least Waxman was a good sport about it. I wish politicians were more like Waxman, who instead of standing in front of a microphone telling people what they plan on doing, actually spends less time, if any, in front of one and more time sitting behind the scenes and actually doing stuff for the people. He was truly an unsung hero.

Would someone please try and convince Bill to invite Dr. Anthony Fauci on his show. There's no gag order on him so he's free to talk to anyone. That way, he can set Bill straight about Covid and the vaccines so that he doesn't come across as some anti-vaxer doing more harm than good.

Agree with you about both New Rules and having Dr. Fauci on. 

[aghst]

I don't think Fauci would travel to LA.

And Bill  may prefer to have live guests.

 

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Would someone please try and convince Bill to invite Dr. Anthony Fauci on his show.

I suspect Dr. Fauci has far better things to do right now. And given the quality of Bill's show lately, Fauci might prefer not to associate himself. Couldn't blame him, frankly.