S22.E01: Guardians and Gladiators

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, Neiman said:

but something tells me Olivia and the rest aren't wearing masks because it might interfere with hair and makeup.

Yes, they take more into account of that all important closeup, don't they?

Edited November 15, 2020 by dttruman

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, Neiman said:

If they're going to keep using the masks, they need to watch some old episodes of the MASH surgery scenes.  That cast showed how easy it is to talk while wearing a mask, but something tells me Olivia and the rest aren't wearing masks because it might interfere with hair and makeup.

True, but I suspect that MASH might have shot those scenes differently if Alan Alda couldn't move the top half of his face due to Botox and half of the writers couldn't write dialogue that didn't require the cast to sell the hell out of it with every trick in the book including facial expressions in order to make it halfway passable...

[Andyourlittledog2]

On MASH those surgery scenes were a small part of the episode.  I still maintain that if we were given entire episodes where the cast had the lower half of their faces covered at all times to make it 'true' we'd find it almost unwatchable after a short while.  I'd rather they hold them symbolically to represent wearing the mask rather than do that any day.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

On MASH those surgery scenes were a small part of the episode.  I still maintain that if we were given entire episodes where the cast had the lower half of their faces covered at all times to make it 'true' we'd find it almost unwatchable after a short while.  I'd rather they hold them symbolically to represent wearing the mask rather than do that any day.

I just saw an episode where the entire M*A*S*H episode was a "bottle" episode, meaning, in one spot. And it was entirely in the OR (the early Blake/Trapper John era). So if that cast could act with masks, so can the cast of SVU. JMO!

[DB in CMH]

2 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

On MASH those surgery scenes were a small part of the episode.  I still maintain that if we were given entire episodes where the cast had the lower half of their faces covered at all times to make it 'true' we'd find it almost unwatchable after a short while.  I'd rather they hold them symbolically to represent wearing the mask rather than do that any day.

I would agree, but they are also modelling behavior. While I hope that nobody would take their cues from SVU, their mask usage made me question my own.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Olivia isn't obsessed with victims so much as she is obsessed with perps and sending them to jail while trying to look awesome.

True. A great example of this is the way she pressures victims into giving statements and testifying, practically re-traumatizing them in the process. It's pretty uncomfortable to watch.

[Hellga]

I tried watching it when it came out, and it was so cringe-worthy, I gave up pretty quickly.  I wanted to try again this weekend, but decided to read the reviews first...  I will keep it on my DVR in case I need to watch later to understand any of the subsequent episodes. but I am going to skip it for now...

Not the first time I found an episode unwatchable, though. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Hellga

[dttruman]

On 11/15/2020 at 3:57 PM, wknt3 said:

On 11/15/2020 at 9:45 AM, Neiman said:

If they're going to keep using the masks, they need to watch some old episodes of the MASH surgery scenes.  That cast showed how easy it is to talk while wearing a mask, but something tells me Olivia and the rest aren't wearing masks because it might interfere with hair and makeup.

True, but I suspect that MASH might have shot those scenes differently if Alan Alda couldn't move the top half of his face due to Botox and half of the writers couldn't write dialogue that didn't require the cast to sell the hell out of it with every trick in the book including facial expressions in order to make it halfway passable...

As for the masks interfering with hair and makeup, I think the viewers would sympathize, because they would have the same problems.

Could the actors (or characters) get away with wearing a flexible transparent plastic mask? I have seen some reporters wear them when they are out doing reports. I know I have seen a couple of Inside Edition reporters wearing them.

On 11/15/2020 at 8:56 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Quote

Olivia isn't obsessed with victims so much as she is obsessed with perps and sending them to jail while trying to look awesome.

True. A great example of this is the way she pressures victims into giving statements and testifying, practically re-traumatizing them in the process. It's pretty uncomfortable to watch.

Great point! According to the Benson and Hargitay, they want victims to be more empowered and come forward and not be afraid. I am all for that completely, but the victims on SVU are portrayed almost entirely as scared, helpless and non-trusting of anyone even the police, and it takes a herculean effort by Benson to get them to come forward. IMO, they have built up Benson so much (as many here have stated) that many viewers think her and only her can convince victims to testify, instead of the victims finding strength in themselves to do so.

[SarahPrtr]

13 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

True. A great example of this is the way she pressures victims into giving statements and testifying, practically re-traumatizing them in the process. It's pretty uncomfortable to watch.

 

3 hours ago, dttruman said:

Great point! According to the Benson and Hargitay, they want victims to be more empowered and come forward and not be afraid. I am all for that completely, but the victims on SVU are portrayed almost entirely as scared, helpless and non-trusting of anyone even the police, and it takes a herculean effort by Benson to get them to come forward. IMO, they have built up Benson so much (as many here have stated) that many viewers think her and only her can convince victims to testify, instead of the victims finding strength in themselves to do so.

I agree with both of these points so much.  Olivia actually believes that she 'empowers' victims by practically forcing encouraging them to testify and face their abuser/s.  What a freaking shitty thing to do!!  That could only happen if Olivia had magical powers!  Of course we want the victims to feel strong and not be afraid anymore.  OF COURSE!!  But that could take years, and perhaps never.  She takes the 'facing your fears' thing completely out of context.  That's not how that happens.  It will definitely re-traumatise them, which is why so many rape and assault cases are settled out of court.  It's not just fear - it's also revulsion.  You would be absolutely repulsed by the mere sight of your attacker, even if you didn't fear them anymore.  Being there in the courtroom with the victims for a few hours isn't enough.  But hey, as long as St. Olivia is feeling good about herself, that's all that matters, right?

[spunky]

Someone finally called St. Olivia out on her behavior.  Having one black friend doesn’t make you any less bias or racist Olivia. I’m not surprised that Javon wanted nothing to do with Olivia or anyone NYPD related. They arrested him based on a false accusation from a Karen, who has done this before. Garland is the type of boss SVU needs, tough but fair.

P.S. Writers can we please get more Chief Garland? Thanks!

[Xeliou66]

56 minutes ago, spunky said:

Someone finally called St. Olivia out on her behavior.  Having one black friend doesn’t make you any less bias or racist Olivia. I’m not surprised that Javon wanted nothing to do with Olivia or anyone NYPD related. They arrested him based on a false accusation from a Karen, who has done this before. Garland is the type of boss SVU needs, tough but fair.

P.S. Writers can we please get more Chief Garland? Thanks!

I like Garland as well, and I think bumping him up to a series regular will be a good move, I like Garland’s style, he’s more low key than Dodds and he’s clearly a good guy but he can be tough when needed. 

I don’t think Olivia is a racist, but I think she has blatant biases towards anyone who makes an assault allegation and against anyone accused, she automatically believes every female accuser no matter what. It was refreshing to see the show acknowledge her bias and take her down a peg. 

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, spunky said:

Someone finally called St. Olivia out on her behavior.  Having one black friend doesn’t make you any less bias or racist Olivia. I’m not surprised that Javon wanted nothing to do with Olivia or anyone NYPD related. They arrested him based on a false accusation from a Karen, who has done this before. Garland is the type of boss SVU needs, tough but fair.

I don't think they arrested him on that false accusation alone. Remember he was very uncooperative, disorderly,  and didn't want to identify himself. When he was identified, he had a couple of outstanding warrants and that's why he was arrested. The writers (and producers) put that "outstanding warrants" bit into the plot in order to support their narrative of the episode. If Jayvon didn't have those outstanding warrants, complied with the officers, and shown them that video of that nutjob of a lady, they would be slapping those cuffs on her, asking Jayvon if he saw anyone hanging out in the area (because of the body being found), and the episode would have continued on as another SVU investigation.

Edited November 18, 2020 by dttruman

[spunky]

On 11/17/2020 at 10:08 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I like Garland as well, and I think bumping him up to a series regular will be a good move, I like Garland’s style, he’s more low key than Dodds and he’s clearly a good guy but he can be tough when needed. 

I don’t think Olivia is a racist, but I think she has blatant biases towards anyone who makes an assault allegation and against anyone accused, she automatically believes every female accuser no matter what. It was refreshing to see the show acknowledge her bias and take her down a peg. 

She definitely has biased when it comes to believing the victims. It was her "I have work to do" line that lead me to believe that she didn't realize, you can be racially biased even if you're friends with someone from that community.

19 hours ago, dttruman said:

I don't think they arrested him on that false accusation alone. Remember he was very uncooperative, disorderly,  and didn't want to identify himself. When he was identified, he had a couple of outstanding warrants and that's why he was arrested. The writers (and producers) put that "outstanding warrants" bit into the plot in order to support their narrative of the episode. If Jayvon didn't have those outstanding warrants, complied with the officers, and shown them that video of that nutjob of a lady, they would be slapping those cuffs on her, asking Jayvon if he saw anyone hanging out in the area (because of the body being found), and the episode would have continued on as another SVU investigation.

I can understand his frustration and unwillingness to cooperate with the police.  He was already stopped in frisked in the past because "he fit the description". That in itself is triggering for any black person, especially a black man.  Then "Karen" decided to call the cops on him for walking and breathing while black.  The cops automatically took her word for it and didn't even question her. Of course he became defensive, because once again he's being profiled. Yes he had warrants because he missed his desk appearance. 

Even Olivia admitted to the IAB investigator that they did not ask the so called victim for her ID. 

[dttruman]

On 11/18/2020 at 11:38 AM, spunky said:

Even Olivia admitted to the IAB investigator that they did not ask the so called victim for her ID. 

This is here where I have a problem with the plot. When I was questioned at a certain incident, they required everyone to show some form of I.D., suspects, witnesses, and even the victims. "How the Hell" , do you not get the I.D. of a (or any) supposed victim, this is just absurd. The writers (and producers) need to have their "dramatic licenses" permanently revoked.

Edited November 19, 2020 by dttruman

[spunky]

26 minutes ago, dttruman said:

This is here where I have a problem with the plot. When I was questioned at a certain incident, they required all show some form of I.D., suspects, witnesses, and even the victims. "How the Hell" , do you not get the I.D. of a (or any) supposed victim, this is just absurd. The writers (and producers) need to have their "dramatic licenses" permanently revoked.

In the real world yes, everyone would have to show ID. In the land of SVU, St. Olivia is too biased against anyone accused of sexual assault , to think logically. 

[jcbrown]

This was awful. Ham-handed, terribly written, and add in wildly stupid and inconsistent mask usage. Woof, I hated this one. The masking/unmasking and numerous close conversations without masks made this very hard to watch. Model good behavior, show.

[Zoe]

On 11/18/2020 at 11:26 AM, dttruman said:

This is here where I have a problem with the plot. When I was questioned at a certain incident, they required everyone to show some form of I.D., suspects, witnesses, and even the victims. "How the Hell" , do you not get the I.D. of a (or any) supposed victim, this is just absurd. The writers (and producers) need to have their "dramatic licenses" permanently revoked.

Well they clearly ID'd her, but they didn't look for priors. 

[txhorns79]

On 11/20/2020 at 2:20 AM, jcbrown said:

This was awful. Ham-handed, terribly written, and add in wildly stupid and inconsistent mask usage. Woof, I hated this one. The masking/unmasking and numerous close conversations without masks made this very hard to watch. Model good behavior, show.

Yes, it was an awful episode.  Carisi can't control his grand jury.  He seemed entirely unprepared for the witness to lie.  And dear God, so much speech-ifying and Liv taking advice from stupid Noah.  Hey Noah, someone in Liv's position doesn't run off and apologize to someone suing the police department, because it can be used against the department.  I realize your grown ass mother apparently doesn't understand that, but I do and no one asked your opinion.   

[dttruman]

22 hours ago, Zoe said:

On 11/18/2020 at 12:26 PM, dttruman said:

This is here where I have a problem with the plot. When I was questioned at a certain incident, they required everyone to show some form of I.D., suspects, witnesses, and even the victims. "How the Hell" , do you not get the I.D. of a (or any) supposed victim, this is just absurd. The writers (and producers) need to have their "dramatic licenses" permanently revoked.

Well they clearly ID'd her, but they didn't look for priors

But Jayvon should have shown the police his video of her going nuts, then her complaint about Jayvon wouldn't have gone anywhere.

[jabRI]

I still think it STUPID that Olivia goes on all the preliminary calls, you never saw the other bosses do that, they stayed in the office.

[Kel Varnsen]

So if the warrant for Jayvon was for taking part in BLM protests and Caruso said they weren't prosecuting those why wouldn't they cancel the warrant?

Also I found it hilarious that the video the actual pero made at the beginning called Rollins something like hottie cop. In the real world probably, but in the tv world of L&O where pretty much every female Ada is like a super model I am not so sure.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[ShepardRahl]

On 11/13/2020 at 5:47 PM, tennisgurl said:

Olivia isn't obsessed with victims so much as she is obsessed with perps and sending them to jail while trying to look awesome.

Yes, whether they be innocent or not because she subscribes to "believe all women". There was one episode a few seasons back where she rushed to arrest somebody, found out shortly after he was innocent, and later got a call from the prison he was in that he was killed by another inmate....and she couldn't have cared less. She rolled her eyes. There was another episode where she threatened to fabricate felony charges against a radio host simply because she didn't like his politics. Yeah, Benson has a major bias, but it isn't exactly racial.

Holy god was this episode bad. They must have had an entire BLM chapter in the writers room for this one. "I'm not one of those Karens". I laughed so hard. Yes you are. You are the perfect representation of a Karen. And imagine my shock when it's revealed she had a history of false allegations. I'm surprised they did that. And of course half the cast had to be queer.

They're not prosecuting BLM curfew violations. Oh what a surprise. Any other protest and they would send out swat teams.

It was nice to see Benson finally get a glimpse of self awareness. Benson in seasons 1-12 would investigate and it made her sick to think of an innocent person in jail. With season 13 came new showrunners and Benson had a massive character change. She didn't care about anything anymore except arresting the "accused". It looked like she may have an epiphany of just how many men's lives she's ruined on false allegations simply because they were straight while males.

The black woman interrogating Benson is the personification of everything that's wrong in this country. Talking down to Benson as if there is no question she's racist. You could play bingo with all of the buzzwords she used. This SJW/critical race theory mindset is everything that's wrong with this country right now.

That final scene with Noah..."Are you racist?". That was wholly unnecessary.  

[missj9580]

To all those complaining about the mask usage, or lack thereof, I don't get it. You really wanna watch a show with the characters' faces covered up the entire time?!

[dttruman]

14 hours ago, missj9580 said:

To all those complaining about the mask usage, or lack thereof, I don't get it. You really wanna watch a show with the characters' faces covered up the entire time?!

The show prides itself on being as realistic as it can, because the stories are taken from the headlines. They like to then put their own little spin on the episode and still keep the realism.  As for the inconsistent use of the masks, I am starting to wonder that if they wear one, are they doing it to set a good example for viewers when they go out and about? If they don't wear one, are they just guest stars and want to be recognized for their TV work? IMO, if they are the stars of the show, I can see them wearing masks because they would definitely be noticed as themselves. It maybe that some of the stars are so insecure, that they demand to be seen maskless. I guess it all depends on how the episode is written.

Edited January 26, 2021 by dttruman

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, missj9580 said:

To all those complaining about the mask usage, or lack thereof, I don't get it. You really wanna watch a show with the characters' faces covered up the entire time?!

Said it before, but if it worked for M*A*S*H almost 50 years ago, no reason it can't work here. Except for expediency/vanity, IMO.

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

14 hours ago, missj9580 said:

To all those complaining about the mask usage, or lack thereof, I don't get it. You really wanna watch a show with the characters' faces covered up the entire time?!

Said it before, but if it worked for M*A*S*H almost 50 years ago, no reason it can't work here. Except for expediency/vanity, IMO.

I don't want to shoot you down, but with the M*A*S*H, the scenes in the operating room aren't numerous and they are all regular cast members. On the SVU show you will have many more guest stars and not major regulars who are on maybe once a month (wearing masks). That's a lot pf people wearing masks. It's almost like comparing Apples to Oranges

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

I don't want to shoot you down, but with the M*A*S*H, the scenes in the operating room aren't numerous and they are all regular cast members. On the SVU show you will have many more guest stars and not major regulars who are on maybe once a month (wearing masks). That's a lot pf people wearing masks. It's almost like comparing Apples to Oranges

Agree to disagree, it's cool!  🙂 I just think it could be done. Or should. But TPTB think otherwise and it's not my show, so just as well. LOL!

[Joe Hellandback]

Not as bad as I feared. The guys own fault for being arrested and he was wanted on warrant so perfectly legitimate. I'd have liked Olivia to tell him (and the loathsome IA cop)  to get stuffed at the end but that was never going to happen. 

What I did like is the cynicism of it, when Hector Williams warns her and Fin that none of them are safe, even the black officers. I liked the way the rapist (was he guilty? Or was he just in the closet and freaked out during his tryst in the park? What evidence is there against him with the victim in the coma?) was able to get off by exploiting the hysteria, showing the consequences of people's hypocrisy towards the police.