Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[ABitOFluff]

  Nvm

Edited April 8, 2017 by ABitOFluff
Never mind

[jjjmoss]

Though looking at the generally disastrous year to year drops for ABC dramas, Once doesn't look that bad.

-62% American Crime

-45% Quantico

-41% Shield

-40% Scandal

-32% Once, Murder

-29% Catch

And the obvious exception: -6% Queen Meredith Grey

Every comedy is more stable than Catch though.

Edited April 8, 2017 by jjjmoss

[Tiger]

20 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Weren't we supposed to hear some news from ABC this week? Seems like we would have heard by now as it's nearing the end of day Friday...

We were supposed to.  It looks like the ModFam situation is holding everything else up.  

[MadyGirl1987]

3 hours ago, Tiger said:

We were supposed to.  It looks like the ModFam situation is holding everything else up.  

I am sure the higher-ups are loosing a lot of sleep over the Modern Family situation. The last thing ABC needs right nowbis to lose such a major show.  

[Camera One]

Good. I hope Morpheus aka Gideon haunts their dreams too.

[KingOfHearts]

18 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Good. I hope Morpheus aka Gideon haunts their dreams too.

With our luck, it's probably Regina.

"Renew my show, or I will destroy your sitcoms if it is the last thing I do."

Edited April 9, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[maryle]

Well, I am kinda sad!!

0.7!! Even if I am firmly in the not sure about the reboot.

I still a little sad but maybe Once is already renewed or cancelled. 

So,don't really matter anymore.

[Kktjones]

The person with the most screen time in the last two episodes has been a guest star (Jasmine, Gideon). No wonder the ratings are tanking. At this point the only people still watching are die-hards who want to see their favorite characters, not watch long, boring flashbacks about people they don't care about.

And if these truly are the last episodes of the series, I will be forever pissed that they saddled Emma with August & Gideon for her adventures rather than Hook or Snow. How much fun would it have been to watch Emma & Hook work together to swindle Blackbeard for a magic bean. No, instead she's running around getting wrapped up in cheap Halloween webbing. UGH.

[maryle]

I totally agree with this!

We can't know real reason rating keep falling but the last episode (jaladin)was bad (Gideon is not really better) and the lack of cs can really well be part of the problem.

I don't understand why they didn't do a epic cs adventure they knew it was good for promotion so why choose the cheap angst and the long separation instead.

[Free]

12 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

The person with the most screen time in the last two episodes has been a guest star (Jasmine, Gideon). No wonder the ratings are tanking. At this point the only people still watching are die-hards who want to see their favorite characters, not watch long, boring flashbacks about people they don't care about.

And if these truly are the last episodes of the series, I will be forever pissed that they saddled Emma with August & Gideon for her adventures rather than Hook or Snow. How much fun would it have been to watch Emma & Hook work together to swindle Blackbeard for a magic bean. No, instead she's running around getting wrapped up in cheap Halloween webbing. UGH.

Well that doesn't bode well since their plans for a reboot involves bringing in new characters to join the remaining cast members.

[Kktjones]

3 minutes ago, Free said:

Well that doesn't bode well since their plans for a reboot involves bringing in new characters to join the remaining cast members.

Yeah, pretty sure ABC has noticed and I think the chances of getting this reboot are about as good as Isaac scoring Hamilton tickets 2 years before it even existed.

[RadioGirl27]

Those numbers are bad, but not surprising. The last episodes have been terrible, and the lack of focus in the core characters is a big turn-off. It's a shame the show is going to end in such a lousy note.

[CCTC]

The thing I don't like about Gideon it that he is such a lazy plot device to redeem Rumple who I know no longer think should get a redemption.  I don't feel Like watching him and seeing Belle look at Rumple saying "there is still good inside you" etc.

[Free]

11 minutes ago, CCTC said:

The thing I don't like about Gideon it that he is such a lazy plot device to redeem Rumple who I know no longer think should get a redemption.  I don't feel Like watching him and seeing Belle look at Rumple saying "there is still good inside you" etc.

You know how this show is with their 'redemptions'.

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, RadioGirl27 said:

Those numbers are bad, but not surprising. The last episodes have been terrible, and the lack of focus in the core characters is a big turn-off. It's a shame the show is going to end in such a lousy note.

I agree. Always sad when a show goes out with a whimper rather than a bang. But I blame executive meddling for this season being as bad as it is, considering Dungey wanted a full-season arc and we got TEQ storyline petering out around the 3/4 mark as expected (just like Cora in S2). Then she lead them on about a reboot, so we got less Zelena (who was one of the best parts about 5, imo). And I still think she had something to do with Hyde/LoUS being axed and replaced by the dud Aladdin storyline 4 episodes in, not to mention the OQ pandering.

But Rumbelle and Gideon taking over the show really stank up this season more than anything else. I don't like the actor for Gideon, Rumpel has been beyond redemption for quite a while now, and Rumbelle is the worst relationship on this show.

Edited April 10, 2017 by TheGreenKnight

[jjjmoss]

Match Game going up to tie Once in prelims seems to make it more likely that ABC would want a non-drama lineup. That show has to cost like nothing to make.

[Free]

34 minutes ago, jjjmoss said:

Match Game going up to tie Once in prelims seems to make it more likely that ABC would want a non-drama lineup. That show has to cost like nothing to make.

Not to mention it's a last minute replacement to the flop, Time After Time that got pulled.

[maryle]

But do rating really matter now?

I will think they already know (at least ABC) since some weeks and just wait for the right time to announce their decision.  

[Shanna Marie]

4 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

And I still think she had something to do with Hyde/LoUS being axed and replaced by the dud Aladdin storyline 4 episodes in

In fairness to the executives, I don't see how they could have expected the suggestion to add Aladdin, Jasmine, and Jafar to amount to "hey, look, it's Aladdin, Jasmine, and Jafar! And now they're gone! And now they're back! And now they're gone!" Well, unless they've been watching this show. But the writers seemed to think that all they had to do was have them present, with no need for them to actually do anything. I'm not sure there was a burning need among the audience to see Jasmine working as a teacher's aide and whining non-stop about failing her people.

[Curio]

If A&E were forced to plug Aladdin and Jasmine into the story, why not take the crew over to Agrabah for a mini arc and have some fun? Instead, we ended up realm-hopping in a good chunk of episodes to useless places like the Mirror World and the Wish Realm. Seeing the main cast dressed in colorful Agrabahn clothes would be really marketable and easy to advertise on ABC's end. It's no wonder ABC's marketing people struggled to come up with a visual theme for this season. "Uhhh...what can we put on billboards? I guess the Evil Queen? Uh, sure?"

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

 It's no wonder ABC's marketing people struggled to come up with a visual theme for this season. "Uhhh...what can we put on billboards? I guess the Evil Queen? Uh, sure?"

"And don't forget! Aladdin™ and Jasmine™ are in there somewhere too!"

Quote

But I blame executive meddling for this season being as bad as it is

We wished for the network to come in and manage A&E, but... all magic comes with a price! They made it even worse!

Edited April 10, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

It seemed like Aladdin and Jasmine were a last minute addition, because of those ridiculous weekly teases in 6A that Aladdin and Jasmine were coming!  But somewhere along the line, they clearly decided not to have more Aladdin and Jasmine.  Why else would they conclude their storyline in a single episode like a journey to the nearest garbage chute, in the middle of 6B?  By half-assing it, they doomed a marketable Disney property.  At this point, it's hard to know if the horrible pacing this season is due to the incompetence of the writers, or external factors like interference from the execs and the chance of cancellation.  Not that I wanted to see more of her, but the quick return and exit of The Evil Queen was another head scratcher. 

[Tiger]

To echo those above, even if ABC mandated the idea it is the execution if those ideas that is the problem and that is 100% on A&E.  

Hell, I was stoked for Aladdin, Jasmin & Jafar to finally show up, but aside from Karen David actively working her ass off on screen to try to make it work, the whole thing was an epic failure.  

And the 'dont stop watching just yet because Aladdin & Jasmin ARE coming' for about a month and then their awful arrival episode only made it worse.

[tri4335]

5 minutes ago, Tiger said:

To echo those above, even if ABC mandated the idea it is the execution if those ideas that is the problem and that is 100% on A&E.  

Hell, I was stoked for Aladdin, Jasmin & Jafar to finally show up, but aside from Karen David actively working her ass off on screen to try to make it work, the whole thing was an epic failure.  

And the 'dont stop watching just yet because Aladdin & Jasmin ARE coming' for about a month and then their awful arrival episode only made it worse.

All roads lead back to A & E and their inability to execute the duties of being show-runners!

[TheGreenKnight]

3 hours ago, Tiger said:

To echo those above, even if ABC mandated the idea it is the execution if those ideas that is the problem and that is 100% on A&E.  

Yes, but A&E's system of half-seasons had already proven itself the best thing for the show long before Dungey ever came on the scene. As for execution, I give them a pass for not writing out LoUS and introducing Aladdin well since they must have planned for the former and not the latter. (And it showed.) Of course Dungey would never blame herself for making this season worse than it had to be. Aladdin itself was not a bad idea, but it would've been better to let them continue with TEQ and LoUS for 6A as planned and demand 6B be Aladdin.

[jjjmoss]

Half-hours: 0.76, 0.67 (-12%) 

Last week was more stable: 0.79, 0.75 (-5%)

[KAOS Agent]

Ouch. And next week is Easter, so I don't see it improving any.

[Camera One]

Maybe they could market it as a family Easter event.  Mother's Little Helper tries to find The Easter Bunny's special egg that will open a portal between the dark realm and Storybrooke sucking away its life force.  Meanwhile, Mary Margaret goes to the grocery store to buy some ham.

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, TheGreenKnight said:

Yes, but A&E's system of half-seasons had already proven itself the best thing for the show long before Dungey ever came on the scene. As for execution, I give them a pass for not writing out LoUS and introducing Aladdin well since they must have planned for the former and not the latter. (And it showed.) Of course Dungey would never blame herself for making this season worse than it had to be. Aladdin itself was not a bad idea, but it would've been better to let them continue with TEQ and LoUS for 6A as planned and demand 6B be Aladdin.

But folks didnt tune out because they split Regina, brought in Jaladdin, ended the Untold Stories, went to hell, made Emma and Hook Dark Ones, brought in Merida, went to Camelot, brought in Cruella, Ursula, and Maleficient as Queens of Darkness, etc.,; they tuned out because those ideas were executed so poorly.

Even after the huge Frozen live viewing bump had dissapated by the end of 4A, the show remained reallt strong with delayed viewing, but then it seemed overnight when Hook wad revealed as The Dark Two that those folks dissapeared, while the endless barrage of poorlt executed stories eroded the live viewing to what it is now.

[TheGreenKnight]

16 hours ago, Tiger said:

Even after the huge Frozen live viewing bump had dissapated by the end of 4A, the show remained reallt strong with delayed viewing, but then it seemed overnight when Hook wad revealed as The Dark Two that those folks dissapeared, while the endless barrage of poorlt executed stories eroded the live viewing to what it is now.

The change in ratings in S5 looks to me more like a first half/second half split, which likely had to do with viewers who were not interested in the Underworld/mythology. Which, admittedly, viewers are not as familiar with as King Arthur, The Wizard of Oz, Peter Pan, etc. My point was in regards to this season and how the quality of the show has been negatively affected by executives who didn't know what they were doing. The truth is that even if the ratings had held up perfectly from the end of 5B, the show only had one to two years left coming into S6. I'm not sure why TPTB bothered to screw with the show and make the ending as excruciating as possible rather than let it play out the same way it had worked for the past 3 years.

[tri4335]

1 hour ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I'm not sure why TPTB bothered to screw with the show and make the ending as excruciating as possible rather than let it play out the same way it had worked for the past 3 years.

Because they're paying the bills. They should be able to expect some ROI and this goes to the point that A & E are not good show runners.  And the first responsibility of that role is to make your bosses happy.  They should've been able to take suggestions from TPTB and run with them or even prior to that kept the show running efficiently so TPTB didn't need to get involved.  Instead they squandered the opportunities they had. If A & E want full ultimate control, then they need to fund it. When you play with other people's money, those people will have expectations.

Edited April 11, 2017 by tri4335

[Shanna Marie]

15 hours ago, Tiger said:

Even after the huge Frozen live viewing bump had dissapated by the end of 4A, the show remained reallt strong with delayed viewing, but then it seemed overnight when Hook wad revealed as The Dark Two that those folks dissapeared, while the endless barrage of poorlt executed stories eroded the live viewing to what it is now.

They kind of had a perfect storm of ratings issues there. There's always been a huge drop in November when they have to break for those music awards, and then the next weekend is Thanksgiving, when people are either still traveling Sunday night or don't think anything new will be on during a holiday weekend, and then the holidays hit, when people are busy. It doesn't help that the episode before the November break always looks like it could be a finale. But the DVR numbers could still come through because people who set it to record the series would discover that they missed an episode. However, in season 5, the perfect storm hit. They ended with a huge cliffhanger, then followed up with a second episode that had absolutely nothing to do with that cliffhanger and didn't even involve the main characters. There was a break for the music awards, and then Thanksgiving weekend, but then there was the fact that we'd watched Emma be emotionally tortured all season as a reward for saving everyone, and then they topped it off by killing Hook/turning him into the Dark One, and there was the silliness that in the present, he'd been the Dark One all along but didn't know it because his memory was wiped. It was kind of a downer for going into the holiday season. The capper was that the arc finale was delayed due to a presidential address, but ABC didn't adjust its published schedule, so if you set the DVR for the episode, you got half an hour of a presidential address and the first half of the episode. No wonder people gave up in droves.

5A was when the unrelenting misery began. There was a dark cloud over Emma going back to season 4, but at least the awful 4B still had some silliness and camp with Cruella, and there was some humor. By late 5A the show just became so depressing it was oppressive.

[sharky]

It's still like that though, which is a problem. How much longer is the main romance going to be apart? How much longer can we talk about dark fairies? Or Emma's impending doom? Where is the hope in that? I love Captain Swan but when was the last time they just had swashbuckling fun? I would come back if the reboot was a swashbuckling pirate princess adventure if it's not dark and dour. I get that this has more drama than a "happily ever after" fairy tale but don't sell a show about hope if there's no hope -- and there will be no hope until the last two episodes of the season according to spoilers. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by sharky

[Curio]

15 minutes ago, sharky said:

I love Captain Swan but when was the last time they just had swashbuckling fun? I would come back if the reboot was a swashbuckling pirate princess adventure if it's not dark and dour. I get that this has more drama than a "happily ever after" fairy tale but don't sell a show about hope if there's no hope

What's really strange (and pretty depressing) is that we might go the entirety of Season 6 with only one single episode that's primarily just a Emma/Hook solo operation. (The Cinderella episode, which is also the highest rated episode of Season 6.) How can you film 22 episodes where only one episode's A-plot focuses on the main couple of the show at the moment? And this is a show about True Love romance. You kind of have to wonder if that has impacted ratings as well. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

What's really strange (and pretty depressing) is that we might go the entirety of Season 6 with only one single episode that's primarily just a Emma/Hook solo operation. (The Cinderella episode, which is also the highest rated episode of Season 6.)

Even then, Henry was there for most of it.

Quote

And this is a show about True Love romance. You kind of have to wonder if that has impacted ratings as well. 

The writers tend to forget they're writing a show about Disney princesses. They didn't even need to sell the authenticity of Snowing in S1, because they were freaking Snow White and Prince Charming. That's what viewers wanted to see. Trying to be "dark" and "nuanced" alienates the show's core demographic.

Edited April 11, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

7 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Even then, Henry was there for most of it.

Yeah...I was going to mention that, but I didn't want to be even more depressed when the episode count goes down to zero.

[Tiger]

4 hours ago, Curio said:

What's really strange (and pretty depressing) is that we might go the entirety of Season 6 with only one single episode that's primarily just a Emma/Hook solo operation. (The Cinderella episode, which is also the highest rated episode of Season 6.) How can you film 22 episodes where only one episode's A-plot focuses on the main couple of the show at the moment? And this is a show about True Love romance. You kind of have to wonder if that has impacted ratings as well. 

 

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Even then, Henry was there for most of it.

The writers tend to forget they're writing a show about Disney princesses. They didn't even need to sell the authenticity of Snowing in S1, because they were freaking Snow White and Prince Charming. That's what viewers wanted to see. Trying to be "dark" and "nuanced" alienates the show's core demographic.

The Cinderella episode was far from perfect, but IMHO it was probably the best episode in quite some time and definitely the best since. 

And the ratings and viewer feedback seemed to reflect that, which is why it's so strange that they didnt adapt at least that episodes general tone for episodes going forward.  

I think that at this point viewer and critical malaise has set in to the degree that even if ABC does do a big promotional campaign of 'only X episodes left until the two-hour series finale', I doubt it would move the dial.

[KAOS Agent]

Quote

The Cinderella episode was far from perfect, but IMHO it was probably the best episode in quite some time and definitely the best since. 

And the ratings and viewer feedback seemed to reflect that, which is why it's so strange that they didnt adapt at least that episodes general tone for episodes going forward.  

Considering that episode actually fit the way that Adam had sold the season early on (Emma in her bug helping people ala S1), it's ridiculous that there was exactly one episode like it. Is it really that surprising that the audience tuned in to a story that was very reminiscent of what this show was like in the highly rated first season? It was also the most hopeful this show has been in a very long time with the villain being punished, the heroes getting a win and Cinderella, her sister and the boyfriend getting their happy endings. Maybe if they'd done a little bit more of this, the audience would have been more willing to stick around.

[Tiger]

5 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

Considering that episode actually fit the way that Adam had sold the season early on (Emma in her bug helping people ala S1), it's ridiculous that there was exactly one episode like it. Is it really that surprising that the audience tuned in to a story that was very reminiscent of what this show was like in the highly rated first season? It was also the most hopeful this show has been in a very long time with the villain being punished, the heroes getting a win and Cinderella, her sister and the boyfriend getting their happy endings. Maybe if they'd done a little bit more of this, the audience would have been more willing to stick around.

In addition to all those things, I and it seemed many others loved that Lady Tremaine wasnt redeemed and/or given some sob story; she was a straight up nasty bitch.  Also Jessy Schram and the Tremaine actress were fan-friggin-tastic!

[Camera One]

9 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

Considering that episode actually fit the way that Adam had sold the season early on (Emma in her bug helping people ala S1), it's ridiculous that there was exactly one episode like it. 

If anything happens *once* in a season, Adam makes it sound like it's what the entire season is like.  

[KingOfHearts]

The stories they don't mutilate tend to go over better with audiences. While the fairy tales in S1's had "twists", their core remained largely the same. Hansel and Gretel went to a house made of food and escaped a cannibalistic witch. Yes, Regina sent them there, but audiences still got what they expected. Frozen had hardly any deviation from the source material and it was well-received. On the flip side, not everything original has been bad. Emma and Captain Swan are very unique to the show and they're popular. The writers don't mix adaptations and their original material very well.

It's ironic that a show that banks on namedropping and iconography does so little to give audiences what they want. As Isaac's boss puts it, the writers "don't sell stories people want". Just give me Ariel showing her dinglehoppers to Jasmine, darn it. You can keep the Wicked Witch/Robin Hood rape.

Edited April 12, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Yes, even this season.  The Cinderella stuff was partly so good because it was based first on the story we know and love.  Lady Tremaine was great because she looked and acted like the Wicked Stepmother.  Compare that to the lame-o Maleficent cry-me-a-river annoying daughter that no one wants to see ever again.

[maryle]

The Cinderella episode was my favorite also!

Tv spoiler put Once in the show likely to be canceling but not by much.  Not sure how reliable the site and if it is the beginning and other will follow

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, maryle said:

Tv spoiler put Once in the show likely to be canceling but not by much.  Not sure how reliable the site and if it is the beginning and other will follow

The predictions have been very erratic, haven't they? One day renewal is possible, and another it's unlikely. I'm beginning to think no one really knows anything but the network.

Edited April 13, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I'm not sure the network knows.

I'm fairly ignorant about things like this, so does anyone know the 'drop dead date'?  The date by which they absolutely must make a decision?

[sharky]

If you really want to cut it dramatically close, drop dead could be day of upfronts if you're really crazy.

[ParadoxLost]

17 minutes ago, sharky said:

If you really want to cut it dramatically close, drop dead could be day of upfronts if you're really crazy.

The could pull what CBS did with Limitless last year.  Up fronts, show isn't there.  List of cancellations, show isn't there either.  It was in limbo for weeks after up fronts while they shopped it to alternative outlets only for it to be cancelled after all.

I think OUAT will be more clear cut because of the lack of critical support and interest from anyone but maybe FreeForm.  I still think its Freeform, midseason, or cancelled. I'm leaning towards cancelled.   But in any scenario its nearly unrecognizable and if the only thing that survive the reboot is the writers, then who wants to see that?

[Curio]

The longer we go without hearing any news about OUAT, the more I keep thinking it's moving to Freeform. For as bad as the ratings are, it's still steady enough to guarantee a fairly reliable amount of viewers each week. Being reliable might be better than taking a risk at this point. If ABC moves the show to Freeform with a brand new cast but the same writing team, they don't have to spend extra time with hiring new writers or recreating the showrunning wheel. Of course, the current showrunners are the reason the show's ratings are so bad, but ABC seems oddly loyal to A&E and might be willing to give them one last shot to do something on Freeform. It's the risk/reward between keeping a well-oiled machine running with mediocre ratings, or taking a huge risk on a brand new idea that has the potential to flop harder than the well-oiled machine.

[SiobhanJW]

Lana just posted a photo of herself dressed as the Evil Queen with Kerry Washington who I'm assuming was dressed as Olivia Pope. Doesn't ABC usually do a video for the upfronts? Could this be a sign it's renewed? That is unless it's for something else, but she did tag ABC Network & Onces Instagram. 

[CCTC]

If she is dressed like the EQ for a video for an upfront, it seems like they still think the Evil Queen is the big draw and I anticipate more Evil Queen flashbacks in the reboot.