Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[Camera One]

Except maybe gave a burst of good material that made certain diehards (ahem) keep hoping and hoping and clinging on to the show, knowing that if they wanted to, they could do a good story (eg. of Emma making friends with someone other than Regina).

Can you imagine if 4A lacked Frozen, and was all Regina-wants-to-find-the-Author, Regina/Robin/Marian and Rumple and the Stars Align in the Sky?  Even some of us on this forum might have dropped out earlier (probably not me, though, LOL).

[Rumsy4]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

Can you imagine if 4A lacked Frozen, and was all Regina-wants-to-find-the-Author, Regina/Robin/Marian and Rumple and the Stars Align in the Sky?  Even some of us on this forum might have dropped out earlier (probably not me, though, LOL).

Change a couple of words, and it sounds exactly like 4B or 6A. lol. Much as I enjoyed the Frozen arc, 4A also gave us Breaking Glass--my least favorite episode until it was toppled by 6.10. Yeah--it is very possible that the writers would have made it all about Regina right from the start if not for Frozen, and the season would have gone downhill much faster. 

[Free]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

But it went back to its regular numbers by the fourth episode. The ratings for the 3B finale were 2.3/7. While 4A opened with a rating of 3.5/11, it went back to 2.3/6 by the fourth episode in a 22-episode season, and didn't really recover from that point. So, I can't see how the extremely short-lived boost helped the longevity of the Show in any way.

Not really, you have to take into account season to season drops, Frozen gave it a very short lived cushion with more room to fall.

[Tiger]

15 hours ago, Free said:

It wasn't in danger until this season, but the decline would've happened a lot sooner and the Frozen bump gave it some cushion for its fall before going back to its regular numbers in 4b onwards.  Without Frozen, OuaT might've gone fractional earlier if the regular declines held, it's a short lived boost that helped it out but only just for a little bit.

It wasn't in danger so long as Paul Lee was around.  If it had been up to him, Galavant would have aired again this year, as well as Muppets, and The Neighbors, Super Fun Night, Mixology, and a list of other bombs would still be airing.  

He was extremely well suited to ABC Family, but a complete disaster at ABC.  

[Free]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

It wasn't in danger so long as Paul Lee was around.  If it had been up to him, Galavant would have aired again this year, as well as Muppets, and The Neighbors, Super Fun Night, Mixology, and a list of other bombs would still be airing.  

He was extremely well suited to ABC Family, but a complete disaster at ABC.  

This season is the first time the show has gotten fractional ratings, that and it's an aging/costly series especially by now in S6.

IA about Paul, there's a reason he got the boot, speaking of ABCfamily (well, Freeform), that's also not doing so well especially once PLL ends.

[KingOfHearts]

I would think something cheaper like Once: Wonderland would do really well on Netflix. Even if we don't get a streaming extension, it would be cool to see a spinoff that took advantage of a public domain property. I could just see something like that flourishing on that platform. Even if we don't get a "Once" show, I'd still like to see something in a similar vein.

I don't think ABC is looking to streaming or anything. It's just a nice thought.

Edited December 27, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Unfortunately, they probably won't be allowed to use their Disney properties on Netflix.  Too bad mini-series aren't "in" or profitable anymore since it would be fun to see a mini-series or two from the "Once" world on ABC each year.  There are enough cast members that they could join when they aren't busy, and A&E could throw all their ideas into a 2 or 4 hour event and be done with the story each time without having to follow through.

[General Days]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:19 PM, Tiger said:

Notorious had it's order cut and it's last episode aired three weeks after the previous with zero promotion in a different timeslot behind holiday programming.

Conviction is being tried in a different slot for several weeks, with it's original order, continues to be promoted, and CO-STARS THE SISTER OF THE NETWORK PRESIDENT.  

ABC may very well in May decide to cancel it, but as of now it is still very much alive and in contention for renewal. 

Conviction is all but toast. I understand your point about the Dungey sisters, but I think you're over-counting it. In its first season, Conviction is averaging less in the 18-49 demo than OUAT is in its sixth season. Shows lose ratings steam every year. When a major broadcast network's show -- in season one -- can't average 1.0 in the demo, and when the network declines to order the back nine, that show is done. 

If (and that's a big if) nepotism comes into play, it's that Channing Dungey decided to pay to keep the cast's options. The only way this show will get renewed is if it is completely retooled into an unrecognizable show, IMO. It would be easier (and less professionally risky) to cast her sister in another show than to save a disaster. 

Besides, Conviction is not being tried in a different slot to save it. Sunday nights on ABC are dismal. The real show-saving move was moving Quantico off of Sunday nights to Mondays. Conviction just took over the empty (and doomed) time slot. That is the network's angle, there. Quantico had some wind in its sails during the first season. ABC is trying to save Quantico, not Conviction. They've already decided Conviction is a goner, so they're moving it to Sundays to let it die off, unnoticed.

On 12/14/2016 at 3:24 PM, Tiger said:

This morning the country music radio station I listed to said that ABC has picked up a new show starring Reba McIntire that will debut in late 2017.  

I haven't checked to see if this has been reported elsewhere. 

ABC didn't "pick up" the Reba McEntire show. The untitled project has received a script commitment plus penalty (which is less sure than a "put pilot" but more sure than a project that is merely in development). Check out Deadline. Granted, with Marc Cherry and McEntire aboard, the show has a better than average chance of getting greenlit. 

On 12/22/2016 at 8:12 AM, Tiger said:

What folks like that fail to account for is that ABC will be turning over one, possibly two hours currently occupied by drama to comedy next fall.

This fall ABC had 9 hours of drama on the fall schedule.  Let's say they only do 7 next fall, which is increasingly looking like the most likely scenario.  

Grey's, Scandal, Murder, Designated, and Inhumans/Shield will take up 5 of those hours.  That means all the other existing dramas and the new pilots are competing for just two slots.

Once is done.  Everything else aside, it's basic math.  

I think SHIELD is done, like Notorious, and probably Conviction. Secrets & Lies is likely to be cancelled as well. If I had any money to bet, I would bet all four shows (I've named) would be cancelled before Once Upon a Time. 

12 hours ago, Tiger said:

 [Paul Lee] was extremely well suited to ABC Family, but a complete disaster at ABC.  

On this, we agree. 

I expect OUAT will get a limited season seven renewal (maybe 10 episodes). While it has a big cast, it shoots in Vancouver, so it's cheaper. There are a lot of green-screen special effects (also cheaper). Robert & Ginny are the "big names" in the cast. It's an easy show for Disney to exploit (don't mean that in a bad way; the show is built in publicity for Disney movies, theme parks, and merchandise). Also, Eddie & Adam have an overall with the network.

OUAT could be cancelled. It arguably should be cancelled, based on the ratings decline, but the show still improves significantly in the Live + 7 Day numbers. I think Once is probably safe for a final season (albeit probably a shorter one). 

[Serena]

Pretty much what General Days said.

I think Paul Lee's biggest failure was rushing The Muppets' to air without giving the showrunners a chance to make it good. Judging from the premiere ratings, there clearly was interest in the series, but that dropped after people realized how bad it was.

[Eolivet]

7 hours ago, General Days said:

I expect OUAT will get a limited season seven renewal (maybe 10 episodes). While it has a big cast, it shoots in Vancouver, so it's cheaper. There are a lot of green-screen special effects (also cheaper). Robert & Ginny are the "big names" in the cast. It's an easy show for Disney to exploit (don't mean that in a bad way; the show is built in publicity for Disney movies, theme parks, and merchandise). Also, Eddie & Adam have an overall with the network.

Has ABC ever done a "limited final season" for anything, though? Not technically including LOST at 18 episodes, 6 years ago. I feel like (again, no real experience, just observation) they have "full season shows" and they have "limited season shows" and one doesn't...turn into the other. Even Revenge got a full final season, I think.

I guess I'm having a hard time believing that when they're trying to rebuild a schedule almost from scratch, they would carve out 10 episodes for an aging, low-rated series just out of the kindness of their hearts. Because it seems that's what it would literally be -- the kindness of their hearts. I think the case has been effectively made that they could make a lot more money with comedy or reality. Especially if the show bottoms out to a 0.8 or 0.7 this spring.

[KingOfHearts]

Seems like ABC has a lot going out, but not much coming in.

[CCTC]

I could see them scheduling it as a mid-season replacement where it would not have 22 or 23 episodes.

Different network, but that is what they are basically doing with Grimm.  Another show that kind of went off the tracks.

[Free]

46 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Seems like ABC has a lot going out, but not much coming in.

Definitely, for their dramas, you have Grey's Anatomy and maybe the ret of the TGIT shows at the rate they're heading.  Otherwise, they're either having flop new shows and weakening veterans on its way out.   They only have their comedy blocks and unscripted shows.

[maryle]

I also think the show will have a last final season and I am mostly curious how they will marketing it. 

A) What the real happy ending for all your beloved characters with a focus on Emma's journey and maybe possible marriage

B) the final battle between villain and Heroes. Or unknown treath more frightening than before for our characters

C) some big Disney twist and their impact on Storybook.

D) a little bit of all the above.

I do wonder if they will going with a short season because they have the new Disney show in development that could replace Once.

[Souris]

2 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I guess I'm having a hard time believing that when they're trying to rebuild a schedule almost from scratch, they would carve out 10 episodes for an aging, low-rated series just out of the kindness of their hearts. Because it seems that's what it would literally be -- the kindness of their hearts. I think the case has been effectively made that they could make a lot more money with comedy or reality. Especially if the show bottoms out to a 0.8 or 0.7 this spring.

They certainly wouldn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts. Networks pretty much never do anything without a $$$$$ reason. I could see an abbreviated season working if there was another show they needed/wanted to hold for midseason and it would take over Once's slot, making a short Once season an easy, stop-gap filler.

53 minutes ago, maryle said:

I also think the show will have a last final season and I am mostly curious how they will marketing it. 

Regardless how it was marketed, it would be about Regina and her happiness only.

[Tiger]

2 hours ago, Free said:

Definitely, for their dramas, you have Grey's Anatomy and maybe the ret of the TGIT shows at the rate they're heading.  Otherwise, they're either having flop new shows and weakening veterans on its way out.   They only have their comedy blocks and unscripted shows.

The plug and play ABC has been doing with comedy repeats and the solid numbers theyve been generating is just more ammo for the network to add two additional hours of comedy next fall.  

10 hours ago, General Days said:

Conviction is all but toast. I understand your point about the Dungey sisters, but I think you're over-counting it. In its first season, Conviction is averaging less in the 18-49 demo than OUAT is in its sixth season. Shows lose ratings steam every year. When a major broadcast network's show -- in season one -- can't average 1.0 in the demo, and when the network declines to order the back nine, that show is done. 

If (and that's a big if) nepotism comes into play, it's that Channing Dungey decided to pay to keep the cast's options. The only way this show will get renewed is if it is completely retooled into an unrecognizable show, IMO. It would be easier (and less professionally risky) to cast her sister in another show than to save a disaster. 

Besides, Conviction is not being tried in a different slot to save it. Sunday nights on ABC are dismal. The real show-saving move was moving Quantico off of Sunday nights to Mondays. Conviction just took over the empty (and doomed) time slot. That is the network's angle, there. Quantico had some wind in its sails during the first season. ABC is trying to save Quantico, not Conviction. They've already decided Conviction is a goner, so they're moving it to Sundays to let it die off, unnoticed.

ABC didn't "pick up" the Reba McEntire show. The untitled project has received a script commitment plus penalty (which is less sure than a "put pilot" but more sure than a project that is merely in development). Check out Deadline. Granted, with Marc Cherry and McEntire aboard, the show has a better than average chance of getting greenlit. 

I think SHIELD is done, like Notorious, and probably Conviction. Secrets & Lies is likely to be cancelled as well. If I had any money to bet, I would bet all four shows (I've named) would be cancelled before Once Upon a Time. 

On this, we agree. 

I expect OUAT will get a limited season seven renewal (maybe 10 episodes). While it has a big cast, it shoots in Vancouver, so it's cheaper. There are a lot of green-screen special effects (also cheaper). Robert & Ginny are the "big names" in the cast. It's an easy show for Disney to exploit (don't mean that in a bad way; the show is built in publicity for Disney movies, theme parks, and merchandise). Also, Eddie & Adam have an overall with the network.

OUAT could be cancelled. It arguably should be cancelled, based on the ratings decline, but the show still improves significantly in the Live + 7 Day numbers. I think Once is probably safe for a final season (albeit probably a shorter one). 

Yesterday morning, Buzz Brainard on SiriusXM again said that the Marc Cherry/Reba show had been picked up for next fall.  

Shield is still in play because its Marvel.

19 hours ago, Camera One said:

Unfortunately, they probably won't be allowed to use their Disney properties on Netflix.  Too bad mini-series aren't "in" or profitable anymore since it would be fun to see a mini-series or two from the "Once" world on ABC each year.  There are enough cast members that they could join when they aren't busy, and A&E could throw all their ideas into a 2 or 4 hour event and be done with the story each time without having to follow through.

Wasnt this the original concept for 'Wonderland', that each season would be in a different land, i.e. Agrabah, Under the Sea, etc and it would air between half-seasons of the parent? 

[Camera One]

I think that was the original idea.  But once they made "Wonderland", they decided to put it on the main schedule and also intimated that it could have a second season.  Basically, the usual "wait and see what makes the most money" strategy.  

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I think that was the original idea.  But once they made "Wonderland", they decided to put it on the main schedule and also intimated that it could have a second season.  Basically, the usual "wait and see what makes the most money" strategy.  

Wonderland would have be an awesome winter hiatus filler... just saying. It would have aired between 3A and 3B, when viewers were really hyped up for Once.

Edited December 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Wonderland would have be an awesome winter hiatus filler... just saying. It would have aired between 3A and 3B, when viewers were really hyped up for Once.

Didn't the executive who made the call to change plans admit that it was a really bad idea? The series was developed for the specific purpose of being a winter hiatus filler for the original show, then they changed their minds late in the game, and it utterly failed.

[Tiger]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Didn't the executive who made the call to change plans admit that it was a really bad idea? The series was developed for the specific purpose of being a winter hiatus filler for the original show, then they changed their minds late in the game, and it utterly failed.

Another one of Paul Lee's genius scheduling moves which he later admitted was a mistake.

[Shanna Marie]

On 12/27/2016 at 10:40 PM, retrograde said:

The NYT has an interesting story mapping where and amongst what populations certain TV shows are popular. Once is most popular amongst Mormons. 

If that's an overall look at viewing patterns and not necessarily a current snapshot (and it looks like the former, since the article discusses shows that are no longer being made), then it could explain the ratings freefall. They're writing wonky morality with a villain-centered perspective and they're queerbaiting to a largely Mormon audience. That would map with some of the huge ratings dips -- there was the huge dip around the time that they went with the Regina as victim narrative, then they lost the Frozen bump around the time that Regina and Robin were getting together while the person we believed at the time to be Marian was in an ice coma. The 5A drop came after the hyped queerbaiting "maybe we're going to do a same-sex relationship!" episode. They're basking in Twitter kudos from the SwanQueen crowd while the bulk of their core audience is quietly voting with their remotes. It's still a popular show among Mormons, but if Mormons are their core audience and they start drifting away, then they lose their audience. I wonder if the network has been at all aware of where their audience is. Not that they're obligated to sacrifice personal beliefs to cater to the morality of their audience, but if a big chunk of your audience is Mormon and you've got the most popular show among Mormons, then a storyline about adultery in which Snow White gives a speech about how adultery isn't wrong may not be the best way to hang onto your audience.

Though there is also a strong possibility that the Mormon audience is underrepresented by Nielson. The same thing is likely happening with the "Black Belt" the article identifies. Groups that are a minority nationwide but a majority in a particular geographic area tend to be underreported.

[CCTC]

I am looking forward to the upcoming untold stories arc involving Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, and selected Osmonds.  I can't wait for the twist that Marie duplicity stole Regina's place on what was supposed to be the Donnie and Regina Show.

[Free]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

If that's an overall look at viewing patterns and not necessarily a current snapshot (and it looks like the former, since the article discusses shows that are no longer being made), then it could explain the ratings freefall. They're writing wonky morality with a villain-centered perspective and they're queerbaiting to a largely Mormon audience. That would map with some of the huge ratings dips -- there was the huge dip around the time that they went with the Regina as victim narrative, then they lost the Frozen bump around the time that Regina and Robin were getting together while the person we believed at the time to be Marian was in an ice coma. The 5A drop came after the hyped queerbaiting "maybe we're going to do a same-sex relationship!" episode. They're basking in Twitter kudos from the SwanQueen crowd while the bulk of their core audience is quietly voting with their remotes. It's still a popular show among Mormons, but if Mormons are their core audience and they start drifting away, then they lose their audience. I wonder if the network has been at all aware of where their audience is. Not that they're obligated to sacrifice personal beliefs to cater to the morality of their audience, but if a big chunk of your audience is Mormon and you've got the most popular show among Mormons, then a storyline about adultery in which Snow White gives a speech about how adultery isn't wrong may not be the best way to hang onto your audience.

Though there is also a strong possibility that the Mormon audience is underrepresented by Nielson. The same thing is likely happening with the "Black Belt" the article identifies. Groups that are a minority nationwide but a majority in a particular geographic area tend to be underreported.

They don't seem to care, if they wanted to course correct the series, they would've done that a long time ago instead of things getting even worse.  At this point, they're all just phoning it in until the series ends.

[KingOfHearts]

3 hours ago, CCTC said:

I am looking forward to the upcoming untold stories arc involving Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, and selected Osmonds.  I can't wait for the twist that Marie duplicity stole Regina's place on what was supposed to be the Donnie and Regina Show.

It would be kind of funny if Marie Osmond guest starring as a character spiked up the ratings.

Quote

They're writing wonky morality with a villain-centered perspective and they're queerbaiting to a largely Mormon audience.

Aside from the Mormon audience, Once has almost always taken a more traditional approach. With the heavy Disney influence, there's expectation for a more conservative style. It wasn't until S4/S5 when the writers wanted to be "edgier" with the more progressive ideas. (Which, in my opinion, they totally screwed up.)

Edited December 29, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

If that's an overall look at viewing patterns and not necessarily a current snapshot (and it looks like the former, since the article discusses shows that are no longer being made), then it could explain the ratings freefall. They're writing wonky morality with a villain-centered perspective and they're queerbaiting to a largely Mormon audience. That would map with some of the huge ratings dips

That would make sense.  Though "Once" is also high up in urban areas.  

[Tiger]

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

It would be kind of funny if Marie Osmond guest starring as a character spiked up the ratings.

Aside from the Mormon audience, Once has almost always taken a more traditional approach. With the heavy Disney influence, there's expectation for a more conservative style. It wasn't until S4/S5 when the writers wanted to be "edgier" with the more progressive ideas. (Which, in my opinion, they totally screwed up.)

I would argue that parts of season 2 & 3 were eddy, whereas 4B on was dark and nonsensical.  

Seriously, why'd they ditch the allege original 4B plan of adventures in Sherwood Forrest for the 7th Grade Girls of Meaness?!?

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I would argue that parts of season 2 & 3 were eddy, whereas 4B on was dark and nonsensical. 

The dark spot on Snow's heart was probably the first desperate attempt to look "edgy" and "nuanced". 

Quote

Seriously, why'd they ditch the allege original 4B plan of adventures in Sherwood Forrest for the 7th Grade Girls of Meaness?!?

Well, the Heathers of Darkness weren't the real focus on 4B. It was also about eggnappers, the Author, Regina's happy ending, Lily, and Zarian... did I miss anything? I would have been happy with just the Disney Plastics. At least they were mildly entertaining in a drive-thru. Other than Maleficent, they were a little too Saturday-morning-cartoon at times, but amidst the bleakness it was kind of refreshing.

4B was just depressing and nobody knew what was going on. Casual watchers just assumed it was too complicated to understand, more seasoned viewers just saw all the plot holes for what they were.

Edited December 29, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

The dark spot on Snow's heart was probably the first desperate attempt to look "edgy" and "nuanced". 

Well, the Heathers of Darkness weren't the real focus on 4B. It was also about eggnappers, the Author, Regina's happy ending, Lily, and Zarian... did I miss anything? I would have been happy with just the Disney Plastics. At least they were mildly entertaining in a drive-thru. Other than Maleficent, they were a little too Saturday-morning-cartoon at times, but amidst the bleakness it was kind of refreshing.

4B was just depressing and nobody knew what was going on. Casual watchers just assumed it was too complicated to understand, more seasoned viewers just saw all the plot holes for what they were.

Ugh, the board ate my edited post.  Dont get me wrong, the Heathers were A problem but theyre werent THE problem. THE problem was that author plot that made absolutely no fucking sense! 

I feel like I've read some extremely well-written posts here and elsewhere trying to explain it, and I still dont understand it.  

Edited December 30, 2016 by Tiger

[Curio]

3 hours ago, Tiger said:

I feel like I've read some extremely well-written posts here and elsewhere trying to explain it, and I still dont understand it.  

Don't bother. Those extremely well-written posts about 4B usually just point out all the inconsistencies and nonsense and then end with a TS;TW disclaimer. Literally NO ONE understands 4B.

[Free]

1 minute ago, Curio said:

Don't bother. Those extremely well-written posts about 4B usually just point out all the inconsistencies and nonsense and then end with a TS;TW disclaimer. Literally NO ONE understands 4B.

Exactly, people are putting more effort into it than the writers who makes things up on the spot.

[YaddaYadda]

All I got from 4B was that major Hook as Dark One foreshadowing, and how ready I was to walk out on this show and slam the door on my way out. 4B was fucking abysmal. I stopped watching shows for less than that.

[ParadoxLost]

17 hours ago, Curio said:

Don't bother. Those extremely well-written posts about 4B usually just point out all the inconsistencies and nonsense and then end with a TS;TW disclaimer. Literally NO ONE understands 4B.

I understand 4B;)  it was a meta arc intended to explain what happens when the writers try to guide the plot.  They scrapped the original plan in a fit of pique when one too many fans griped at them about answering interview questions like they had no control over what happens or might happen in the show. 

Anyway,  I noticed they are starting to burn off Conviction this weekend.  Have we heard what is going to be on Sundays with OUAT when it returns yet?

[Tiger]

50 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I understand 4B;)  it was a meta arc intended to explain what happens when the writers try to guide the plot.  They scrapped the original plan in a fit of pique when one too many fans griped at them about answering interview questions like they had no control over what happens or might happen in the show. 

Anyway,  I noticed they are starting to burn off Conviction this weekend.  Have we heard what is going to be on Sundays with OUAT when it returns yet?

ALLEGEDLY it was/is going to be American Crime & When We Rise.  Crime has 10 eps, Rise has six they were/are likely to do two-hour premeire and finale of Crime over 8 weeks with Rise in the 6 between.  

ABC hasnt announced plans for them, Star Crossed, Catch, Time After Time, Imaginary Mary, or Downward Dog.  And they can't dump something to Saturdays in the spring as they're contracted to air NBA in primetime.  

Ive heard that ABC is not pleased to the n'th degree with production of Star Crossed, Catch, and Time After Time, but I don't know why they would'nt announce plans for the others.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Tiger

[ParadoxLost]

15 minutes ago, Tiger said:

ALLEGEDLY it was/is going to be American Crime & When We Rise.  Crime has 10 eps, Rise has six they were/are likely to do two-hour premeire and finale of Crime over 8 weeks with Rise in the 6 between.  

This reminds me how strange it is that they program OUAT at 8PM and then go a completely incompatible with the 9 and 10PM hour.  Even if OUAT was a strong show I think it would fail as a lead in to the rest of Sunday night given the types of dramas they consistently put there.

It seems like they would have been better off moving it to Friday or having it be the 10PM anchor to a comedy night if the only other option is to have it lead off a two hour block of "serious" dramas.

16 minutes ago, Tiger said:

ABC hasnt announced plans for them, Star Crossed, Catch, Time After Time, Imaginary Mary, or Downward Dog.  And they can't dump something to Saturdays in the spring as they're contracted to air NBA in primetime.  

Ive heard that ABC is not pleased to the n'th degree with production of Star Crossed, Catch, and Time After Time, but I don't know why they would'nt announce plans for the others.

I can't believe it took them until now to figure out that Catch wasn't any good.  Too bad about Time after Time.  I was hoping one of the time travel shows wouldn't be a disaster. 

[jjjmoss]

The popular theory about Catch is they wanted to keep Shonda happy given how she provides them with like their only worthwhile dramas. Like how Fox renewed Scream Queens, which is currently the bottom-rated show of the main 4 networks, cuz of Ryan Murphy's involvement with American Horror Story/American Crime Story/the upcoming Feud.

[sharky]

I think Star Crossed only had a seven episode order and I can't find anything that says they've extended it. On the ABC press site, they're now referring to it as "Untitled Shondaland Project" if that's any indication of what's going on there.

Futon Critic shows ABC has To Tell the Truth at 8 and 9pm on Sundays with Once and Time After Time replacing those at some point. I wonder if the hold up then is Time After Time. It would be a good fantasy-type show to match with Once, but I think there were some rumors about that one looking a little bumpy as well. Can't find anything about it thought except for a recasting of one of the main characters back in August.

So all of that makes me think it's less about Once and more about what the hell is going on with the other dramas that are supposed to be midseason replacements and how they are going to fit into the schedule. Maybe ABC is just waiting to see how the new dramas progress to the point where they could launch one of them with the Once lead-in, but they don't want to announce the line up until they're sure about the other shows.

[Free]

21 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

This reminds me how strange it is that they program OUAT at 8PM and then go a completely incompatible with the 9 and 10PM hour.  Even if OUAT was a strong show I think it would fail as a lead in to the rest of Sunday night given the types of dramas they consistently put there.

It seems like they would have been better off moving it to Friday or having it be the 10PM anchor to a comedy night if the only other option is to have it lead off a two hour block of "serious" dramas.

I can't believe it took them until now to figure out that Catch wasn't any good.  Too bad about Time after Time.  I was hoping one of the time travel shows wouldn't be a disaster. 

You'll have to get your time travel show from outside the big networks, those types usually don't last too long.

[paulvdb]

The first of Conviction's Sunday burn-off episodes got just over 2 million viewers and a 0.4 rating in A18-49. At that level even nepotism can't save it. OUaT is at a level where nepotism could give it that final push so maybe A&E should promise Channing Dungey to cast her sister as a regular character if she renews the show.

Edited January 2, 2017 by paulvdb

[Camera One]

New promo in light of this...

"In March.  A familiar face returns to Storybrooke.  To fight The Hooded Figure.  A Savior from Another Land..."

* insert clip of Ursula's hand shaking like crazy*

"Once Upon a Time"... new episodes in March.  Featuring Robin Hood.  The Evil Queen.  Rumbelle's son.  The Black Fairy.  David's father.  Jafar, Aladdin and Jasmine.  Jekyll and Hyde (uh, scratch that).  And now, URSULA."

* insert another clip of Ursula's hand shaking like crazy*

[Curio]

Except instead of shaking hands, Ursula's tentacles would be wildly flailing out of control.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

* insert clip of Ursula's hand shaking like crazy*

So Kendra from Buffy?

[sharky]

And take a look at the rest of the night. The Bachelor teaser got a lower rating than Once at 8pm and even To Tell the Truth got a 0.7 -- although it is cheaper to produce than Once. it will be interesting to see what happens on a non-holiday weekend next week. 

[jjjmoss]

Bachelor still smashing with actual episodes though - around 2.1 for the premiere.

[Free]

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 4:46 PM, sharky said:

And take a look at the rest of the night. The Bachelor teaser got a lower rating than Once at 8pm and even To Tell the Truth got a 0.7 -- although it is cheaper to produce than Once. it will be interesting to see what happens on a non-holiday weekend next week. 

That was just a special on a holiday (New Years) and most likely cheaper, especially since the actual show does way better.

[Serena]

From Channing:

Quote

Here’s a Once Upon a Time question. Do you see this being the final season? And if so, can you give them an end date to work with like, say, Lost had?
Yeah, so [executive producers] Eddie Kitsis and Adam Horowitz, as veterans of Lost, are fully conscious of all these things. They came in and sat with us recently to talk about what their ideas would be for a season 7 and we’re in conversations about that right now. But I think this is absolutely a show that is beloved to us and if and when we decide to end it, we want to do it the right way and really give the fans the ending that they deserve. But I will say that Eddie and Adam have some really good ideas for future seasons.

[maryle]

Not impress!  It sound like what they said about Castle... before ending it in the worse way possible. She doesn't denying that Once is near the end but instead Choose to reassure people about satisfying closure. 

[Hookian]

"I'm hearing that ABC has no faith in OUAT and is not going to allow Time after Time to have OUAT's lead in"

Cough cough

ABC gives OUAT the Eight PM time slot and Time after Time the 9 pm time slot. Mhmmm, you were saying?

Meanwhile ABC has also confirmed that they're in talks for a S7 and when they decide to end the show they will give the writers and fans a heads up that the show deserves.

Sounds to me like we're getting a final season after S6.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Hookian

[Camera One]

Quote

we want to do it the right way and really give the fans the ending that they deserve.

So they're turning us into snakes?

Quote

But I will say that Eddie and Adam have some really good ideas for future seasons.

Season in the plural... I can only imagine the "good" ideas they have.  

Edited January 10, 2017 by Camera One

[legaleagle53]

Yes, what I'm reading from that is "Is Season 6 the final season?  Not necessarily."

[Hookian]

Basically next season will be promoted as the final season just like Lost was promoted in it's final season as such. I'm very happy with this news.

If it'll be 13 or 22 is anywhere in between is anyone's guess. I'd be fine with either.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Hookian