Belgravia - General Discussion

[howiveaddict]

Maria is always pronounced that way in Jane Austen shows.  The one Brit name I can't get over the pronounciation is St John. Pronounced like Sinjin.

[khyber]

On 4/29/2020 at 7:28 PM, howiveaddict said:

Maria is always pronounced that way in Jane Austen shows.  The one Brit name I can't get over the pronounciation is St John. Pronounced like Sinjin.

I knew a Sinjin, I had no idea it was St. John.  I think he might have been South African.

[Adgirl]

I really don't like this. I love period dramas so it'll probably play in the background while I'm cooking dinner or something. The servants are disloyal and the daughter in law is a pill. The dowager countess wouldn't stand for her behavior no matter how much money she'd brought to the marriage. 

The acting is superb from everyone.

I wish Mr. Trenchard didn't allow himself to be spooked by supercilious servants. Tradesman or not he still outranks a servant and should treat them as such. That little man at the club was such a jerk.

[Brn2bwild]

11 minutes ago, Adgirl said:

I really don't like this. I love period dramas so it'll probably play in the background while I'm cooking dinner or something. The servants are disloyal and the daughter in law is a pill. The dowager countess wouldn't stand for her behavior no matter how much money she'd brought to the marriage. 

Do you mean Mrs. Trenchard?  The dowager countess's servant was loyal.  

[LadyintheLoop]

Yes; interesting how Dawson suddenly turned frosty when Ellis noted Mr. Pope's good looks. Want to bet she'd already spotted a resemblance? 

I love Maria's dark print dress.

[Adgirl]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

Do you mean Mrs. Trenchard?  The dowager countess's servant was loyal. 

Mr & Mrs Trenchard's servants are disloyal. The Dowager Countess of Downton would not have stood for Oliver's wife's attitude. 

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, LadyintheLoop said:

Yes; interesting how Dawson suddenly turned frosty when Ellis noted Mr. Pope's good looks. Want to bet she'd already spotted a resemblance? 

I love Maria's dark print dress.

I thought she believed that Ellis was implying that the Countess was having an affair with him.

On another note, I'm finding the Oliver character really distasteful.  All he does is complain.  He has no personality other than that.

[Frost]

Does Oliver have any redeeming qualities?  We're told he loves Glanville, but does he show any adeptness there?  There's a lot to do to oversee a large estate, meet with the steward, make decisions about the tenant farmers, etc.  Would he be interested in or qualified for any of that?  Or would he be as useless as he is at his father's place of business?   All we know is that Oliver pouts and throws fits of rage wherever he is, in public or private, London or Glanville.  If I'm supposed to feel any sympathy for Oliver at some point, the show isn't giving me much to work with.  

Spears mentioning she had just cut up some fresh rags for Susan gave me the shudders!  It can be easy to get swept up in the glamor of the gowns and the parasols and the barouches and forget about the lack of what we would consider basic necessities.  No wonder women took to their rooms during that time of the month.  Can you imagine trying to elegantly walk around London in a heavy gown with a bunch of rags stuffed between your legs?  Ugh!

[EtheltoTillie]

There are too many villains in this story--it does make it somewhat unpleasant.  But I'm still enjoying it overall.

[taanja]

On 4/13/2020 at 10:30 AM, Frost said:

I loved the first episode!  I really enjoyed the book and I thought they were very true to it so far, although Lady Brockenhurst wasn't as waspish in her first meeting with Mrs Trenchard as I remember.  I teared up when Sophia died, although the pronunciation of her name kept tripping me up every time I heard it!

The nuances of navigating society in those days were so complex.  And poor Mr Trenchard was so bad at it!   It's easy as modern day American to laugh at that stuff but I still remember as a student at university in England in the '80's that some of it was still around.

At first my American ears thought they were saying -- Saphira << or something -- it took me several eps to realize they are saying Sophia! Duh!

Anyway-- customs and old timey manners? I am in! 

[taanja]

On 4/27/2020 at 1:27 AM, buttersister said:

Our Comcast must have added Epix for real (maybe to soothe the screaming over losing TCM to some $ports package). I’m feeling very bad for Mr. Trenchard is an ass on many levels. And you know giving away his grandson was to protect himself, no matter what he blathers on about. Selfish asshole. Rooting for Mrs. T.

Yeah. I went ahead a freaking purchased the sports crap (I don't watch any sports ever-- they are forbidden on my television) but I need Turner Classic Movies in my life. So... well worth it.

Oh and the actress from Sweetbitter is Mariah (or Maria) Grey-- I knew I recognized her from something!

I don't hate any of the characters. They all have something to offer.

[raven]

On 5/4/2020 at 9:11 AM, Frost said:

All we know is that Oliver pouts and throws fits of rage wherever he is, in public or private, London or Glanville.  If I'm supposed to feel any sympathy for Oliver at some point, the show isn't giving me much to work with.  

He is whiny and dull but his parents (and Mrs. Trenchard is one of my fave characters along with the Countess) are very dismissive of him.  They raised him "as a gentleman" well, they've got when they raised.  There's no way he can hold a candle to Sainted Dead Daughter nor Sainted Grandson Pope, which is not his fault.   True, he had advantages and could have made something of himself as his father did but his parents don't seem to think very highly of him.

I enjoy Susan as well.  She's snooty and snippy and cheating on dull Oliver with sleazy John but it's fun to watch.

I'm enjoying this soap opera.  Gorgeous clothes and sets; perfect escapism for me.

[gingerella]

 

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I'm enjoying this soap opera.  Gorgeous clothes and sets; perfect escapism for me.

It’s the perfect quarantine! Too bad it’s only a handful of episodes

[EtheltoTillie]

Yeah, I don't think Oliver is a bad guy.  He seems to realize his wife is terrible but he is stuck with her.  He would probably like to run Glanville and make it work.  I predict that. 

[tinderbox]

How many episodes remain?

[EtheltoTillie]

51 minutes ago, tinderbox said:

How many episodes remain?

One, I think. I watched episode five this morning. 

[Brn2bwild]

Regarding Episode 5:

I hadn't watched or read descriptions of all episodes when I made my prediction a while back, but that explanation made the most sense.

Regarding the Countess's plans to disclose that her son was Charles's father, but to not disclose the mother: my guess is that the "mystery" would not have lasted long, as Charles is bright enough to note the Trenchards' long-standing interest, and to inquire as to whether they have/had a daughter. 

I'm surprised with all of the scheming and background searching on this show, the Countess never thought to investigate Mrs. Trenchard's assumption that Edmund tricked Sophia or that they were not legally married.

[Quilt Fairy]

6 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I'm surprised with all of the scheming and background searching on this show, the Countess never thought to investigate Mrs. Trenchard's assumption that Edmund tricked Sophia or that they were not legally married.

I doubt there'd be an easy way to do that, considering the time and the circumstances.  John(?) apparently gleaned enough details from one of those stolen letters to get a pal in the military to do some digging.  Lady Brockenhurst would have similar (perhaps better) resources, but without the letters as a starting point, I don't know she could check anything. 

BTW, congrats on the "he really was a priest" call. 

[Frost]

Belgravia really needed 7 or 8 episodes instead of 6.  The pace of the first episodes was good, but they've lost a lot of detail in the last couple, trying to get it all in before the end.  The tension in the book around the visit from Miss Sophia's former maid and the letters really built and didn't feel as much like a melodrama as it did by dealing with it all within one episode.  And there's a lot more going on with Susan than is being explored in the series as well.  Oh well, I'm still really enjoying seeing Belgravia brought to life.   I'm going to miss it when it's done!

John is really in a pickle, isn't he?  He was too indiscrete with his army contact.  The man knows way too many particulars, including the fact that it involves a relation to John who died at Waterloo.  Plus, he was very pleased with himself for his successful sleuthing.  He's probably told all kinds of people already and gotten the speculation ball rolling.

I was glad to see James Trenchard finally agreeing to do the right thing, in allowing the Countess to recognize Charles Pope without mentioning Sophia, even though it would mean giving up access to his grandson.  It was heartbreaking to see how much it would hurt Anne to lose that connection, but at least James didn't fight her on it.

It's odd to put myself in the mindset that it was "the right thing" to do, but in those days, if Sophia and Edmund truly had not been legally married, 100% of the shame would have been on her and her family.  And it might have meant more than social ruin for the Trenchards.  If James lost his job, did they have enough accumulated wealth to retire to Glanville and live with no income?  No one of any consequence would have hired him or welcomed his investment after the scandal.

[Brn2bwild]

57 minutes ago, Frost said:

Belgravia really needed 7 or 8 episodes instead of 6.  The pace of the first episodes was good, but they've lost a lot of detail in the last couple, trying to get it all in before the end.  The tension in the book around the visit from Miss Sophia's former maid and the letters really built and didn't feel as much like a melodrama as it did by dealing with it all within one episode.  And there's a lot more going on with Susan than is being explored in the series as well.  Oh well, I'm still really enjoying seeing Belgravia brought to life.   I'm going to miss it when it's done!

Agreed.  Though for what it's worth, I've come to like Susan more based on just what they've shown us.  And despite this being the second-to-last episode, I still feel like I don't really know Charles Pope - the only POV scene we've had was his very first.  

The only thing I don't like in this series is the obvious name dropping.  Such as: "My brother has a shop on a street they call Fifth Avenue."  Why not just say "My brother has a shop on Fifth Avenue" or "My brother has a shop in New York"?  There's nothing remarkable in and of itself about the name Fifth Avenue... it's just a big wink at the audience that "this street is/will be something special."

[izabella]

On 5/10/2020 at 6:06 PM, Brn2bwild said:

Regarding the Countess's plans to disclose that her son was Charles's father, but to not disclose the mother: my guess is that the "mystery" would not have lasted long, as Charles is bright enough to note the Trenchards' long-standing interest, and to inquire as to whether they have/had a daughter. 

Yes, this.  I mean, do they expect Charles himself not to ask many, many questions about how he came to be and his parents, both of them?  What will they tell him about Sophia?  We know nothing about her but we are SURE you are the son of my son?  Even the dullest boy would know he was being lied to about the full story and that grandmother was hiding something.

[raven]

I found this a very entertaining episode with all the various plots and skullduggery.  John is not as smooth as he thinks he is and the Widow Pope caught on to him very quickly; I was amused at how she sent him on his way with a promise to rat him out.

Susan is pregnant, isn't she?  I don't remember if it was stated but things certainly seem to be pointing that way.

On 5/11/2020 at 10:53 AM, Frost said:

The tension in the book around the visit from Miss Sophia's former maid and the letters really built and didn't feel as much like a melodrama as it did by dealing with it all within one episode. 

ITA.  There was really no tension because we see Mrs. T and the maid discussing the letters.  More fun could have been had with that. 

It also felt like there was a scene that was cut - there's discussion about Maria and her mother finding out about Pope's dastardly business dealings (which almost certainly will just be disgruntled workers/competitors spreading rumors) but we didn't see it.  He pressured an elderly widow!!  Oh the horror!!

Now that the Trenchards have the name of the priest/soldier, they could look him up possibly?  Certainly the Countess could.  They must have or know someone with military contacts, or more probably they wouldn't investigate as they are assuming it was not a real marriage and they wouldn't want to attract attention.   I'm just trying to figure out how the info will get out there. 

I had to laugh when Oliver arrived at the factory and was shouting something about how they all must like working there.  Spoken like someone who has never worked a day in his life, lol.   At least he's showing initiative about something, even if it's because of jealousy and daddy issues.

 

[Door County Cherry]

32 minutes ago, raven said:

Susan is pregnant, isn't she?  I don't remember if it was stated but things certainly seem to be pointing that way.

I don't recall if it was stated outright either but last week she and her maid were talking about how she hadn't asked for "rags" for a while.  If she's not pregnant, she at least thinks she is. 

So this was billed as a Season Finale.  I guess that means there's the possibility that this will go beyond a mini-series.  

[humbleopinion]

1 hour ago, raven said:

I had to laugh when Oliver arrived at the factory and was shouting something about how they all must like working there.  Spoken like someone who has never worked a day in his life, lol.   At least he's showing initiative about something, even if it's because of jealousy and daddy issues.

 

When Oliver was asking the growing deaf line workers about their feelings... made me roll my eyes like Marie Grey.......

Too much skullduggery with the servants with rummy eyes....

Finally caught up with this DA Lite with the Watchathon allowing me free Epix2 to finish this series...

Get the tidy bow ready since all the roads lead to a rightful heir, a bastard child, brewing resentment...and the makings for a second season.

Print more money for JulianF....

The glue to this episode...the doggie! That pooch got more screen time than Oliver and more love from his mother...talking about the pup....again.

 

[TV Diva Queen]

Is Lady Maria poor?  I thought that at the beginning now I don’t know why I thought that. 

[humbleopinion]

Females gets nothing.

She has to marry someone with a title to stay in good stead with society, the estates go to the male heirs...

All the effort put into Maria Grey's  upbringing was an investment to get a suitable husband...

We see Lady Brockenhurst as a talented portrait artist as well as her pleasant paintings on the walls of the house but she will never be thought of seriously as an artist....because she is a woman.

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

She has to marry someone with a title to stay in good stead with society, the estates go to the male heirs...

Yep.  

But I don't think money is the primary motive of her mother.  Maria's father has a title.  Even though Charles might be a good businessman with good earning potential, it'd be considered a step down for her not to marry someone from the noble ranks. That's why her mother is so insistent she marry John who is in line to inherit the Earl's title.  If she knew Charles were the actual heir, I suspect her tune would change immediately. 

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 If James lost his job, did they have enough accumulated wealth to retire to Glanville and live with no income? 

I don't think James has a job.  He creates them.  I get the impression that the only reason he has risen as far as he has in society without a noble background is because he's disgustingly rich from his business affairs. 

So they probably would be shunned by the people they're intermingling with now but he'd probably still make quite a bit of money.  As it stands, even though Charles's mother's background isn't what the Bellasis clan would have chosen, the Trenchard money coming with Charles wouldn't be unwelcome. 

[humbleopinion]

The titled characters are only tolerant/nice to the Trenchards and Charles because of Lady Brockenhurst's interest in them.

Mrs. Trenchard accepts her place in society as part of the merchant class while her husband is the social climber who knows his reputation as The Magician, named for his ability to supply the military(The Duke of Wellington, no less) with their needs,  can be leveraged into getting a membership into a men's supper/social club....

Thinking James would be labled an entrepreneur, an investor, a builder..his fingers in lots of pies.....

 Earned money like James' wealth was looked down upon by the titled.....

 

[Brn2bwild]

2 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

Yep.  

But I don't think money is the primary motive of her mother.  Maria's father has a title.  Even though Charles might be a good businessman with good earning potential, it'd be considered a step down for her not to marry someone from the noble ranks. That's why her mother is so insistent she marry John who is in line to inherit the Earl's title.  If she knew Charles were the actual heir, I suspect her tune would change immediately. 

That said, some real life examples have been successful.  For instance, decades earlier than Belgravia, Lady Charlotte Bertie married untitled industrialist John Guest, becoming Lady Charlotte Guest.  The main difference there was that Mr. Guest was already very wealthy, while Charles Pope is an upstart.  Mr. Guest was later elevated to the level of baronet.

[Frost]

2 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I don't think James has a job.  He creates them.  I get the impression that the only reason he has risen as far as he has in society without a noble background is because he's disgustingly rich from his business affairs. 

So they probably would be shunned by the people they're intermingling with now but he'd probably still make quite a bit of money.  As it stands, even though Charles's mother's background isn't what the Bellasis clan would have chosen, the Trenchard money coming with Charles wouldn't be unwelcome. 

Maybe "job" wasn't the right word, but James still works with those developers who got him into the club.  Without their social standing, his money would not have been enough for that.  What I was wondering was if the Brockenhurst's proclaim Charles their grandson and it comes out that Sophia Trenchard gave birth to him out of wedlock, then the social shunning could extend to declining James Trenchard any opportunity to continue to invest in projects like the Isle of Dogs, or any other future developments.  If that happened, has James Trenchard been prudent enough with his money for his family to survive at Glanville? 

All sheer speculation of course.  I was just musing on whether James would be free with his spending in order to live up to his social aspirations.  Or would his regard for his own hard work keep at least his financial feet on firm ground.  It was more of a character question.

 

[eejm]

I sort of side-eyed Mr. Trenchard's insistence that they fade from Charles' life after the Brockenhursts acknowledge him.  I know protecting a woman's name and image was incredibly important back then, but...was Sophia's reputation that precious still after she'd been dead twenty-five years?  Even if the Trenchards didn't want to want make Sophia's "indescretion" public, couldn't they very privately acknowledge Charles too just like the Brockenhursts?  That seemed like kind of a stretch to me.

I think it would be interesting to see what exactly brought Oliver and Susan together.  They seem like complete strangers to each other.  Oliver is a whiny little shit, but I get that he's spoiled and feels like chopped liver after all of the attention was given first to Sophia and now Charles.  I didn't really like or understand the point of Susan until she was talking about her supposed infertility to Mrs. Trenchard in the carriage.  Then I could see how empty, bored, and sad she is.  Is it really that difficult for her to seduce her husband a few times and make her pregnancy seem like a happy fluke?

I loved the final scenes in episode five seeing John's friend in the military drone on cheerfully about Edmund's and Sophia's valid marriage while John tried not to barf.  Dude is just as desperate and gross as his father.  

[Frost]

I know it seems utterly ridiculous, but Sophia's "shame" would have been cast over the entire Trenchard family.  Ironically, James' very social aspirations would spectacularly backfire because the Trenchards were already teetering on the edge of high society and this would push them out completely.  And since they have considered themselves "too good" for the merchant class, they probably wouldn't be welcomed back to that fold. socially, either.  Oliver and Susan would be screwed.   The entire family could very well find themselves socially shunned by both the upper and merchant classes.  Again, utterly ridiculous.  And utterly ruthless.  Mean Girls, writ large!

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I think it would be interesting to see what exactly brought Oliver and Susan together. 

I don't recall this being explored in the book either, except that her father is very wealthy and doesn't have a son so Susan is his heir.  I find characters like her much more sympathetic in screen versions than on the page.  The sadness and emptiness of her life are communicated better through facial expressions and emotions in the eyes than to read about it on the page.

Quote

I loved the final scenes in episode five seeing John's friend in the military drone on cheerfully about Edmund's and Sophia's valid marriage while John tried not to barf.  Dude is just as desperate and gross as his father.  

One of my favorite scenes of the entire run! 

[humbleopinion]

Oliver comes from a wealthy family and Susan was pretty, raised well so while it was not a love match and with no kids after years of trying/doctors visits they just tolerate each other...

They both are sulking malcontents...Susan wants to social climb as she attempts to insinuate herself onto Mrs. Trenchard's invitations.

Oliver wants to be successful like his father but doesn't want to start at the bottom, wanting everything handed to him on a silver platter....His petulant behavior at the men's club put James' membership in peril.

[Brn2bwild]

5 hours ago, Frost said:

I don't recall this being explored in the book either, except that her father is very wealthy and doesn't have a son so Susan is his heir.  I find characters like her much more sympathetic in screen versions than on the page.  The sadness and emptiness of her life are communicated better through facial expressions and emotions in the eyes than to read about it on the page.

What's strange is that you'd think she would be a bigger catch to someone with a title because of her fortune.  But maybe that trend didn't kick off until Americans began to marry aristocrats in the 1870s and beyond?

[Frost]

I don't know if we ever knew where Susan's father made his fortune.  Was it new money, like the Trenchards?  Or did he inherit it, like a good aristocrat?  😀

Now I'm interested in doing some research, but I think the rich American heiresses, since they were so far outside of upper British society, were somehow more acceptable than marrying a daughter of a newly rich Englishman.  The Americans still faced a lot of snobbery but they were still treated better by society dames than a wife raised up from the merchant classes probably would have been.  The 10,000 had very strict and intricate rules.  Unless you were brought up in them, you were probably doomed to failure trying to navigate them later in life. 

[caracas1914]

I have to admit, Mr. Charles Pope is getting on my nerves.  So noble  and so enterprising and accepting all this patronage.

Completely oblivious as to why all this good fortune is falling into his lap, and the countess herself in his corner encouraging the relationship with Maria over the interests of her own nephew.

The boy is either incredibly entitled or simply too obtuse, which begs the question how he can be so  adept at business.

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by caracas1914

[Kayz Opinion]

On 4/14/2020 at 5:03 PM, izabella said:

On 4/14/2020 at 3:05 PM, iMonrey said:

(I had never heard of whatever term they were using to describe his job - supplying the army with food or whatever.)

I think she said "vittler."  I've never heard of a vittler, but I have heard the Beverly Hillbillies calling their food "vittles."

"Victuals" was an eighth-grade spelling word and our nun explained that we would probably see it misspelled most of the time.  It's pronounced "vittles."  Thanks to that eight-grade education, I was "in" on the dialogue.

[Kayz Opinion]

On 5/13/2020 at 8:22 AM, Frost said:

I know it seems utterly ridiculous, but Sophia's "shame" would have been cast over the entire Trenchard family.

That happened as late as the 60s.  A family of a teenage girl who "found herself pregnant," would often pull up stakes and move to another state. They felt humiliated and knew "everyone at church" would be gossiping about them.

I met/dated a boy who had just moved to my state with his family so his older sister could have an "illegitimate" baby and give it up.  Supposedly no one "back home" knew the real reason for their move. I met him AFTER she had the baby, but had no friends or social life yet.  He encouraged my friends and me to include his sadly unattractive-poor personality sister when we went to dances, Cruising Central, etc.  She was embarrassing.  We were "good" girls and her needy behavior with boys was going to cause her family to move again!

[Kayz Opinion]

I'm disappointed in the acting (dull staring ahead with no expression) of TAMSIN GRIEG.  She seemed an odd choice for the part anyway, but I know she has talent.  I'm watching the episodes, but she bugs me every time she's onscreen. I try to blame the director...but it's difficult.  It's not "Masterpiece Theatre" quality, and I keep telling myself not to expect that.

[humbleopinion]

To tie up a end from earlier about how the titled of this period viewed the Merchant Class...

John Bellasis when told that he is to be a father and her plan for them to be together asks Susan why would he marry a divorced daughter in law of a dirty tradesman.
Belgravia reminds of how much Downton Abbey cast and storyline is missed.

 

 

 

[EtheltoTillie]

20 hours ago, Kayz Opinion said:

"Victuals" was an eighth-grade spelling word and our nun explained that we would probably see it misspelled most of the time.  It's pronounced "vittles."  Thanks to that eight-grade education, I was "in" on the dialogue.

I learned this in the 60s when Granny on The Beverly Hillbillies used to talk about "vittles." 

[EtheltoTillie]

Well, Susan certainly had a redemption arc. 

[humbleopinion]

As does Sophia...posthumously.

 

The Reverend still unrepentant .... scheming how to gamble anew with his past debts cleared.
Grace Bellasis still enabling her Disgraced son upon discovering her missing silver.
The actress is married to the actor playing Lord Brockenhurst.

[Brn2bwild]

John Bellasis truly is an idiot if he thinks he can just tell Susan everything, then berate her, and not think that she'd have every incentive to tell her in-laws the truth.

Ugh, even if Oliver is not a bad man, he is still such a whiny ass.  By putting him in the country, James may have saved his own reputation as well as Oliver's.

I guess Charles doesn't know how to swim?  I don't know how James and Oliver jumping in after him was supposed to help, unless they were champion swimmers themselves.  The quality of the Thames water would probably make them all seriously ill. 

I don't know if I'd want to see a Series 2, as I find Charles to be a bit bland.  However, I'd watch it if it continued to focus on the grandparents.

[humbleopinion]

Hey Marie Grey Pope...handsy much?

Devouring her newly titled, heir to Brockenhurst in the open carriage post nuptials...

Girl act like you were brought up right....

[humbleopinion]

I too was concerned that James or Charles was going to die of swallowing that Thames sewage water...

Oliver with self reflective insight of how he hesitated before saving James...how touchy feely of you.

Thinking booth James and Oliver know how to swim since they go to Glanville and country squires swim in the ponds, lakes, streams and rivers on their land.

[Frost]

What's interesting is if the marriage had been recognized at the time, especially if Sophia had still died in childbirth, I could see the baby being whisked away by the Brockenhurst's and the Trenchard's would have been pretty much been shut out of his life completely.  So the whole convoluted parentage thing probably worked out best for Anne and James in the end, in that they actually get to have a relationship with their grandson and his family.

I feel so badly for Stephen's poor wife.  She really is in a hopeless position.   All she can hope is that his creditor's won't accept half payment, now that they know he's now out of the loop of the inheritance.

[LadyintheLoop]

So Lord Brockenhurst finally said "last time." Too bad he didn't insist on paying the creditors himself.

Glad they kept Mrs. Pope in the picture, and that Oliver finally addressed the elephant in the room (his parents' preference for Sophia) before his redemption.

 

[BuckeyeLou]

I liked all the woman in this drama better than the men...Maria, Susan, Lady Brockenhurst & Anne Trenchard were all more interesting to me than the men who all seemed 'set in stone".  And Charles Pope, although a polite, nice looking young man, was very bland.  I always enjoy English Period Dramas but I did not enjoy this as much as "Downton Abbey". 

[Kayz Opinion]

4 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I always enjoy English Period Dramas but I did not enjoy this as much as "Downton Abbey". 

It probably has to do with connections and budget.  Without both one can't hire the top actors/directors ... or get your stuff on Masterpiece Theatre.  I think the sets and costumes were fine, but "Belgravia" would have been much better on a different network.