Speculation Without Spoilers

[lulee]

Speaking of Morgan and Rick and maps—I read speculation somewhere that Rick will lose the map that Abraham gave him, and Morgan will find it.

I'm imagining it floating along Forrest-Gump-feather style.

[BrokenRemote]

Yes, they burnt it in the tunnel when they reunited on the way to Terminus. It now shows up in the opening credits. In order it goes; .357 Python for AL/Rick, Angel wing jacket for NR/Daryl, Watch for SY/Glenn, the burning photo for LC/Maggie. Everyone else gets generic backdrops when their name comes up except for MMB. (Why I said Maggie’s symbol was a bad omen, heh.)

Actually, Carol gets brass knuckles during her opening credit, which I just noticed this last episode she has a pair of hanging at her waist. I noticed them in the episode, then on rewatch noticed them in the credits.

Re: goign to the shore. I think the main thing people are thinking is that if your back is against the ocean, it's impossible to get surrounded. Although if a huge herd was up against you, unless you always had a boat nearby I guess you'd be in as bad a position as if you were surrounded...

ETA: I see a lot of wishing in episode threads that Rick's gang will merge with the hospital folks and stay at Grady. Do you guys really see that as an option, what with all the raping and the indentured serving and stuff? I could see Rick's group completely wiping out Dawn's group (except the doctor) and taking over the hospital, but with what Dawn has allowed, and what her followers have done, I can't see them forming one big happy group. Thoughts?

Edited to fix quote tag

Edited November 24, 2014 by BrokenRemote

[JackONeill]

Speaking of Morgan and Rick and maps—I read speculation somewhere that Rick will lose the map that Abraham gave him, and Morgan will find it.

 

I guess that'd be a help to Morgan, but I don't think it'll prove much of a hindrance to Rick.  The way these people have been moving this last year and a half, it'll take another 5 years just to get out of Georgia (if then).  They don't need to know where they're going.  They just walk in a circle.

Edited November 18, 2014 by JackONeill

[lulee]

No way will there be a full Jeff-Probst style full merger of CDB and the Gradies.

More likely, I think is a rescu attempt in which a couple cops die and then something goes bad, e.g., Dawn takes Beth hostage, one of our gang gets shot, etc.

And I'm thinking the doctor doesn't make it out of the next two eps alive.

[JackONeill]

.And I'm thinking the doctor doesn't make it out of the next two eps alive.

 

 

You know, it feels like that episode happened so long ago, I was at first thinking, "Doctor?  Are you talking about Herschel?  Is he still alive?"

 

Aren't there other patients there?  Like that mysterious girl into whose room Beth wandered?  I wonder what will happen to them?  Does Rick's Team need more redshirts?

[ghoulina]

I'm imagining it floating along Forrest-Gump-feather style.

 

This is awesome. Someone needs to make a webisode - "The Journey of Abraham's Map". Maybe it could somehow tie into this companion show that is supposed to come out?

 

No way will there be a full Jeff-Probst style full merger of CDB and the Gradies.

 

Yea, no merger. Tribe swap would be better. 

 

Okay, everyone drop your buffs. Doctor and Dawn and Noah, you're with us now. Beth, Father Pee Pants, and Tyrese - off to camp Grady. 

[Watcher0363]

I guess that'd be a help to Morgan, but I don't think it'll prove much of a hindrance to Rick.  The way these people have been moving this last year and a half, it'll take another 5 years just to get out of Georgia (if then).  They don't need to know where they're going.  They just walk in a circle.

Even though Rick was raising pigs to eat. I am pretty sure he is a direct descendent of Mosses. You know with test questions coming from the modern day version of the burning bush, a disconnected phone and the constant wandering in the wilderness. Rickanite by birth or conversion?

 

No way will there be a full Jeff-Probst style full merger of CDB and the Gradies.

More likely, I think is a rescu attempt in which a couple cops die and then something goes bad, e.g., Dawn takes Beth hostage, one of our gang gets shot, etc.

And I'm thinking the doctor doesn't make it out of the next two eps alive.

I see a flashback to a law enforcement conference where Rick and Dawn flirt. Rick turned her down, then Shane banged the hell out of her. But she still has Rick lust.

 

Dawn: Beth, don't tell Rick I bitched slapped you for no good reason.

Beth: Okay, I'll tell him I broke into song for no good reason. If I can sing at your wedding.

[JBody]

There has been a whole thumpin' lot of religious symbolism in S5a. Unavoidable with FPP I suppose. But Rick is old testament style. When he was facing Gareth, who was on his knees like a supplicant, and he meted out some old timey vengeance... Or how about FPP, who claimed he only confessed his sins to God, and then ended up confessing all to Rick.

[ParadoxLost]

With Eugene and Carol badly hurt, it seems like they are going to need to do a time jump to 5B.

[mandolin]

I posted in the Carl thread that I can't see a jump based on Carl's voice change, but since they didn't have one at the end of S4, I could. 

[ghoulina]

I think it's also likely that Carol and Eugene both die. Maybe I was in a haze with my stomach bug, but I thought Eugene's "coming to" sounds were very walkerish. 

 

They will need to do a jump at some point because of Carl. Although, I am happy to continue handwaving him looking 4 years older than he's supposed to be. For some reason other dumb things, like perfectly plucked eyebrows, bother me more.

I think it's also likely that Carol and Eugene both die. Maybe I was in a haze with my stomach bug, but I thought Eugene's "coming to" sounds were very walkerish. 

 

They will need to do a jump at some point because of Carl. Although, I am happy to continue handwaving him looking 4 years older than he's supposed to be. For some reason other dumb things, like perfectly plucked eyebrows, bother me more.

[JackONeill]

Carl's like the tallest character around!

 

I agree - Eugene may be a walker.

 

Carol's injuries (even putting aside what they say they were) have to be too severe to ignore in a week's (month's, longer) time!  But will they do a time jump, or just say, "Carol, it's been a nice ride . . . but."

 

Speaking of plucked eyebrows -- I was a little bit surprise that Maggie looked so "rough" this episode.  Back when they were at the prison there were times that she looked like she'd just stepped out of Vogue (that is, the Vogue For The End of The World issue.  Still.)

Edited November 24, 2014 by JackONeill

[editorgrrl]

Maybe I was in a haze with my stomach bug, but I thought Eugene's "coming to" sounds were very walkerish.

Nope. According to the closed captioning, Eugene spoke. And Josh McDermitt let it slip on last week's Talking Dead that Eugene lives.

And Sasha was in the preview, so she's fine, too. A time jump after next week's episode would allow Eugene & Carol to heal, Carl & Judith to age up—and Rick to shave?

[ghoulina]

I saw TTD, but wasn't sure that was definitive. Thanks for the info about the closed captioning, though. 

 

I did notice Sasha in the previews, so I was all - "Oh okay, that will be resolved quickly". 

 

About Rick shaving - from your lips to God's ears. Actually his facial hair isn't as bothersome, to me, as the mop on his head. I think during any speculated time jump they should come across a random, functioning spa. A nice bath, some hair maintenance, etc. would do wonders for this group. 

[lulee]

Are you thinking there's going to be a cliffhanger then a time jump or these plotlines largely resolved and then a time jump? I can't see them resisting a cliffhanger and judging by the pacing of last night's ep, there will be cliffs both in ATL and at the church ... and on the road with the GREATM group, I guess???

[ghoulina]

Ugh, you are probably right, but I am over cliffhangers. I, especially, do not want another "Are they dead or not?" cliffhanger. 

[JackONeill]

(I posted this elsewhere).  Here's a practical thought/concern about doing a time jump:  Judith will be older.  Now, depending upon how far we jump (if we jump), how will it be with an older Judith? Right now, she can be tucked away in her carrier.  You don't even need an actor.  But if we jump several months or even a year, then that means a bigger (all things being relative) actor.  And they won't be able to deal as easily as they can now by having someone just pick up Judith to craddle her.  I think having an older (hence bigger) baby/toddler will really be an issue.

[ghoulina]

I agree. That's why I had spec'd last year that Rick and co. would go to Washington with Abraham and leave Judith behind at Terminus with Carol. HA! Boy how wrong was I. I'm really not sure how they'll address an toddler on this show. I really can't see them killing her off, after they already did the fake-out midseason 4. But I also realized how wrong I was to think Rick would just leave his child somewhere, at least not for more than a day or two. 

[JackONeill]

They need a Zombie Daycare.

[editorgrrl]

From the "Crossed" episode thread:

My guess is that Tyrese's idea to negotiate the hostages gets him killed, by the Bob cop his own sister was duped by.

 

I like this! It answers the question of "why not leave Tyreese with Carl & Judith and take Michonne?"

 

Edited to add that Entertainment Weekly speculates that the most likely to die in the mid-season finale are (in descending order):

Beth

Noah

Tyreese

Carol

Rosita

Sasha

Tara

Gabriel

Edited November 24, 2014 by editorgrrl

[lulee]

From the "Crossed" episode thread:

 

 

I like this! It answers the question of "why not leave Tyreese with Carl & Judith and take Michonne?"

I think that theory has something to it. And it has a sort of not-quite-domino-effect feeling to it:

Tyrese failed to neutralize Martin as a threat ...

Martin rejoined the Termites who then found the group and

Bob ended up shish-ka'ed, leading to ...

Sasha being grief stricken, potentially clouding her judgment when dealing with

BobtheCop, whose escape would then endanger ...

Tyrese.

[ikmccall]

I think Tara will use the yo yo as a weapon.

[Nashville]

I think Tara will use the yo yo as a weapon.

 

Depends.  Does it use batteries?

[CletusMusashi]

I predict that now that Glenn's group have a taste for fish, they will eat Eugene's mullet.

Father Pee Pants will join GREATM and show them his stigmata wound. This will finally motivate Yosemite Sideboob to stand up, show his fist, and say "Mine's bigger."

Maggie and Glenn will decide to have a baby (don't worry; the way time moves in that universe, the kid'll be 30 years old next season,) but Maggie will turn out to be infertile. So Tara will agree to let Glenn inseminate her. She will then change her name to Yoyo Ma.

The entire group will get captured, but will discover that, with Rapypants Gordon no longer in power, life at Grady is actually a step up. They have food, medicine, plumbing, electricity, and all they really have to do is make sure all of Dawn's swastika thongs are folded neatly. Daryl even fixes the brakes on the police cars so they aren't always running into people.

Meanwhile, Carl will be older than Rick by the time they come back from season break, so it won't even be creepy when he hooks up with Michonne.

Edited November 25, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[Mu Shu]

I saw TTD, but wasn't sure that was definitive. Thanks for the info about the closed captioning, though. 

 

I did notice Sasha in the previews, so I was all - "Oh okay, that will be resolved quickly". 

 

About Rick shaving - from your lips to God's ears. Actually his facial hair isn't as bothersome, to me, as the mop on his head. I think during any speculated time jump they should come across a random, functioning spa. A nice bath, some hair maintenance, etc. would do wonders for this group. 

You know how when your friends go on vacation and you house and dog sit?    The first thing I do is toss the stank dog in the shower and go to town bleaching everything in sight, including the unwashed for weeks, dingy gray bras.   Yes, I do this, and I would go to town on Rick with a baking soda scrub,  Rid shampoo, a 30 minute soak in the hot tub, followed by a final high pressure hose down, like they do in prison movies.    I would soak his clothing in a 100% ammonia solution for a day  and run it over a scrub board  for at least an hour.   He would have to do his own teeth, because that's gross. 

 

The dog only gets a bath and towel dry, though. 

[CletusMusashi]

Even just a big metal tub that they can light a fire underneath.

Or would that remind them too much of Gareth?

[lulee]

So not a spoiler in the specific sense, but TV Guide has a preview of this Sunday's episode with Norman Reedus who says he "bawled and bawled" because of the final emotional moments. That doesn't sound good for Beth and/or Carol.

 

I know we speculated that things might not look good for Tyrese, but that would seem less likely to me if the odds look worse for one of the characters who's been around since S1 or S2.

 

I'm now feeling like those comments about Carol's injury are to set up her rescue as hopeless.

[editorgrrl]

They're not mutually exclusive: Tyreese could die plus either Beth or Carol.

[bosawks]

So not a spoiler in the specific sense, but TV Guide has a preview of this Sunday's episode with Norman Reedus who says he "bawled and bawled" because of the final emotional moments. That doesn't sound good for Beth and/or Carol.

 

I hope the females he's bawling over are the Jane Fonda circa 1972 shag and Miss Clairol chestnut rinse.........

[lulee]

It didn't give any info beyond that. So he might have bawled over the loss of Tyrese's wool cap I just really hope we don't lose two or even three longtime characters while Abraham and Eugene live on, fortifying the numbers of the bad hair contingent.

[ghoulina]

I didn't want to bring that interview up myself, but now that it's been broughten (Bring it On!), I am super worried about Carol. Reedus is pretty close with MMB in real life, so I can see him getting very worked up about her death. She's my favorite character, so I really hope that's not the case. I suppose he could cry over Beth too. That I could live with. 

 

 

(Maybe I should stop having favorite characters? Hershel was my favorite before Carol and we all know what happened to him. You know, TPTB, Dawn! Dawn is my favorite! Love the stuffing out of that gal.)

[Macbeth]

Well I read Norman's inteview too. Carol's a goner.  IMO.  Speculation not spoiler.  Of course she's a goner - Walking Dead Fans can not have nice things.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Macbeth

[Janimo]

I read the TV Guide preview too. Please don't let him be crying about Carol. She's the one character I'd bawl my eyes out if she gets killed off.....:(

[AngelaHunter]

How did I miss this forum? You all are hilarious.

 

QuoteOr how about FPP, who claimed he only confessed his sins to God, and then ended up confessing all to Rick.

 

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist:

 

[lulee]

Man, this holiday weekend is messing with my sense of time. I keep thinking tomorrow should be Sunday. I guess it's good that Monday is December 1st. That'll make at least somewhat socially acceptable to drown my sorrows over any deaths of well-liked characters with Christmas cookies and wine.

Edited November 29, 2014 by lulee

[editorgrrl]

From the "Coda" episode thread:

I'm not surprised no one from the hospital followed Rick. They've all become... institutionalized, so to speak, even the cops. After a couple of days being on the road, eating squirrels, drinking toilet water, sleeping in their dirty, bloodied clothes, they'd eat their guns I think.

 

It was never established that no one from Grady stepped forward to join team Grimes. TPTB (I'm looking at you, Gimple) love faking the viewers out over the break. (For example: Is Judith dead?) The scene cut immediately to Daryl carrying (quite awkwardly, I thought) Beth out the front door. I just assumed that the Grady bunch were hanging back, giving CDB some space.

 

Why would Percy (the strawberry guy) stay at Grady? And Dr. Steven Edwards might make an age-appropriate love interest for Carol (I think Erik Jenson is 44-ish) should Morgan turn out to still be batshit crazy. I read speculation (perhaps in the "Coda" thread?) that Morgan might be a Big Bad. That possibility never even occurred to me, but I like it!

 

Weird: autocorrect changed "CDB" (for Camp Dinner Bell, aka our heroes) to "CDC."

Edited December 1, 2014 by editorgrrl

[ghoulina]

Yea, I'm not convinced that no one went with them. I thought the way they shot it left it open. Hopefully we'll see there was a mass exodus, Woodybury 2.0. Not that the group needs to get any bigger....but really, who would want to stay???

[morgankobi]

....but really, who would want to stay???

I guess anyone who felt dirty and itchy just looking at the crazy, bearded (yet, hawt!) guy who counts amongst his family people as stupid as Stabby!Beth :)

 

I think it might be reasonable for one or two strangers to start with CDB next February, but I'd expect them to be Walker Chow pretty quickly with their lack of recent fighting skills. (Although the Asian cop on our right made a slight move forward when Rick offered.) I would guess the possibility of newer, nicer regime in what has been a Rotter-safe place with food and water would be worth the risk for most. Better to go with the evil you know...

[lulee]

I think Noah is the only addition. We didn't see anyone else and between some combination of the recent cop deaths, fear of rotters, Stockholm syndrome, and a not very appealing introduction to this ragtag group, even Percy would choose to stay.

Edited December 2, 2014 by lulee

[editorgrrl]

Promo for the back half of season 5:

[mandolin]

That promo appeals to me in the ways this half season mostly did not. Hope that's the feel of the back 8.

[kikismom]

Obviously, no time jump--Judith same size (or smaller, to my eyes.)

Dear God make Daryl and Michonne ditch the leather; we've established their archetypes by now, we won't forget what kind of persons they are just because they put on a t-shirt. I don't know what animal that leather is from but it's going to come back to life soon.

Didn't see Eugene or Rosita but there wasn't more than a few seconds of group.

I swear that doorway with the white peeling paint looks like the doorway of the season 3 ep 1 house for the cold open. I know they re-purpose a lot of locations.

[JackONeill]

Obviously, no time jump--Judith same size (or smaller, to my eyes.)

Dear God make Daryl and Michonne ditch the leather; we've established their archetypes by now, we won't forget what kind of persons they are just because they put on a t-shirt. I don't know what animal that leather is from but it's going to come back to life soon.

Didn't see Eugene or Rosita but there wasn't more than a few seconds of group.

I swear that doorway with the white peeling paint looks like the doorway of the season 3 ep 1 house for the cold open. I know they re-purpose a lot of locations.

 

I think they should all get t-shirts that say: I'm With Stupid! (and an arrow, pointing).  Sometimes, I just feel this way.

Edited December 2, 2014 by JackONeill

[ghoulina]

That promo appeals to me in the ways this half season mostly did not. Hope that's the feel of the back 8.

 

Agreed. Then again, the pre-season promo was very good as well, but didn't they use most of that footage from the very first episode? I don't know...I have a hard time trusting promos. They even made the Beth stuff look interesting, and it soooo wasn't. 

[BrokenRemote]

Based on Michonne saying something in the previews about 'it may be 100 miles but it's a chance for safety and not just walking around' (not sure of the exact wording), are they going to take the fire truck and head north, or maybe head for a coast like T-Dog always wanted?  My sense of distance isn't so great.  Where could they get in 100 miles, or was that maybe just a round number she was throwing out?

Edited December 2, 2014 by BrokenRemote

[editorgrrl]

From the "Coda" episode thread:

Beth is now gone.  I couldn't care less about Abraham.  I care even less about Eugene.  I hope they both die when the show returns, neither of them are needed.  Unfortunately I think there's little chance that Tyreese and Sasha both make it.  One of them is doomed.  Probably going to be Tyreese.  I think either Rosita or Tara is toast as well.  I'm hoping it's Tara.

 

I get that the show needs to introduce new characters, I just wish they weren't as terrible as Father Pee Pants, Abraham and Eugene.  I was kind of hoping the good lady cop from the hospital would join them.  I'm sure romance isn't on any of these people's minds, but Rick needs to find a mother for Judith.

 

Given the existence of a "make Beth not dead" petition (and some of the comments I've read in the episode thread), I seriously doubt TPTB will kill off another young woman any time soon. So I think Tara and Rosita are safe. To me, Gabriel and Eugene have way more potential than Abraham, and Tyreese just needs to die already. And since the group is on the move, new characters are obviously coming.

Edited December 2, 2014 by editorgrrl

[JackONeill]

Based on Michonne saying something in the previews about 'it may be 100 miles but it's a chance for safety and not just walking around' (not sure of the exact wording), are they going to take the fire truck and head north, or maybe head for a coast like T-Dog always wanted?  My sense of distance isn't so great.  Where could they get in 100 miles, or was that maybe just a round number she was throwing out?

Atlanta to Georgia's border with North Carolina is about a hundred or so miles.  Then again, we don't know how long they'd been walking (or driving the bus) when that was said.  (By the way, Washington from Atlanta is about 600 or so miles.)

[Nashville]

Based on Michonne saying something in the previews about 'it may be 100 miles but it's a chance for safety and not just walking around' (not sure of the exact wording), are they going to take the fire truck and head north, or maybe head for a coast like T-Dog always wanted?  My sense of distance isn't so great.  Where could they get in 100 miles, or was that maybe just a round number she was throwing out?

 

They could get to Atlanta.

50 miles out, 50 miles back.

Same as the last couple of years, show-wise.

:P

[ghoulina]

Was she possibly talking about Shane's much desired Fort Benning?

[lulee]

Agreed. Then again, the pre-season promo was very good as well, but didn't they use most of that footage from the very first episode? I don't know...I have a hard time trusting promos. They even made the Beth stuff look interesting, and it soooo wasn't. 

Based on my possibly (probably) excessive analysis of the ComicCon trailer: the clips came from the first 6 episodes with the most from episode 5;1 and less and less to episode 5;6 which may have only been represented by ambulance van going over the overpass. But that trailer was 3 1/2 minutes long. I'd bet that this one only has clips from 5;9 or 5;9 and 5:10.