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Speculation Without Spoilers


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It's just the mods are real good here about letting it flow---unlike some sites where if you accidentally said it was a magenta-handled machete they'd squawk !#@! 15/15 rule violation!- color of handle already discussed!--suspension for you two weeks!---ACCESS DENIED BITCH!

I don't want it to get like that. so we kinda have to show we can keep it untangled then we don't need uber-tight controls.

 

I wasn't trying to cut off anybody at the knees---I hope you understand that none of this was personal.   :-D

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Haha Kikismom, I was disappointed that you edited the arrrrggggh out of your post!

So what about those shoes?

Stopping now.

Speculation: Carl will feel awkward when he notices the bond that Daryl and Beth have formed. Arrrggggh why'd I have to bring it up!

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Speculation: Carl will feel awkward when he notices the bond that Daryl and Beth have formed. Arrrggggh why'd I have to bring it up!

 

It's been a long-time since anyone brought that up -- Carl and Beth.

 

And what is it with the hat?  It's getting weirder and weirder looking every week.  Forget everyone going to a salon to get haircuts and what have you, he needs to get that hat to someone who can "block" it for him.

Edited by JackONeill
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I TRY to read all the posts, but being a SAHM who also homeschools, I sometimes get pressed for time. My bigger issue is that I have NO memory. These kids have robbed me of that. I swear, I'm awful. So, posters, I'll hope you'll forgive if I'm like, "Wait, remind me again what happened in ____". 

 

Personally, I would much rather see Carl and Beth together. Right now there is no one even remotely close to his age, but she's got - what? Five years on him? That won't be so bad in a few years time. I thought it was kind of cute how he had a crush on her. But I don't know if she'd ever be able to see him as any more than a little boy. 

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And what is it with the hat?  It's getting weirder and weirder looking every week.  Forget everyone going to a salon to get haircuts and what have you, he needs to get that hat to someone who can "block" it for him.

This last episode Carl's getting an unfortunate resemblance to Jed Clampett.

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I'm so confused. I haven't noticed a lot of repetition in posts -- I think I must have the same memory problem as ghoulina.

There's a shot in the comic con trailer where Tyrese looks shocked and horrified. I think he's in the church. What caused this reaction? Did he discover Fr. Gabriel's year's worth of chamber pots?

In seriousness, I'm guessing Gareth and friends put something - like a Bob chunk intothechurch and Ty discovers it.

Edited by lulee
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Thanks, kikismom!  Since I can't watch or post live anymore, I try to read (or at least scan) the entire episode thread before posting.  It does get tiring reading the same stuff over and over and over and over again.

 

 

 

It's just the mods are real good here about letting it flow---unlike some sites where if you accidentally said it was a magenta-handled machete they'd squawk !#@! 15/15 rule violation!- color of handle already discussed!--suspension for you two weeks!---ACCESS DENIED BITCH!
I don't want it to get like that. so we kinda have to show we can keep it untangled then we don't need uber-tight controls.

No shit!  I guess that's why I'm so careful to try and get caught up reading the posts first.  I admitted once over at TWoP that I was jumping in without reading first, got a permanent warning and was banned from posting for 10 days.  WTF?  It's not like I posted a giant spoiler for the next episode with photos and a video to prove it.

 

I do like the more relaxed atmosphere over here a lot.

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There's a shot in the comic con trailer where Tyrese looks shocked and horrified. I think he's in the church.

I don't know; if Tyreese looks shocked and horrified he might be in the church. He might be looking out the window of Martin's cabin, or out the window of the cottage on the pecan farm, or standing in the yard at the pecan farm, or standing on the railroad tracks, or standing in the corridor at the prison.

 

Man I bet Chad Coleman is sick of reading scripts with :

camera close-up on Tyreese' face; he looks shocked and horrified.

 

Just one more time and Jeffrey DeMunn will be off the hook forever.

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Thanks, kikismom!  Since I can't watch or post live anymore, I try to read (or at least scan) the entire episode thread before posting.  It does get tiring reading the same stuff over and over and over and over again.

 

No shit!  I guess that's why I'm so careful to try and get caught up reading the posts first.  I admitted once over at TWoP that I was jumping in without reading first, got a permanent warning and was banned from posting for 10 days.  WTF?  It's not like I posted a giant spoiler for the next episode with photos and a video to prove it.

 

I do like the more relaxed atmosphere over here a lot.

I was afraid to post on TWOP, a lot of the time, because I stopped trying to read the entire thread for most shows. 

 

I watched the trailer from the first page, and I saw the hose being directed at the walkers. Do I dare to hope that they might turn it on themselves, once they're out of danger? Unless it's just a quick thing to put them off whilst they run off to safety.

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I'm on the verge of going full-on Zapruder film analysis with this Comic Con trailer. Back and to the right ...

 

I'm sure I kind of grope around for the answers, but I enjoy trying to piece it together just from the official previews, not spoilers.

 

I think ComicConShockedTyrese is dressed somewhat differently than in pics from The Grove but similar to how he looks in the shot where the group is standing at the church, Rick holding Judith, Maggie sitting, Tara walking across the group.

 

At just under 2 mins into the trailer we see Gareth in his post-Terminus faux Italian motorcycle hipster jacket holding a gun and standing by the sign that gives the hymnal numbers of songs in a church.

 

I'm going to guess these shots are related somehow but not sure how -- ComicConShockedTyrese is during daylight and GarethbytheHymns is at night.

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I reject the premise that there is definitive proof in the speculation without spoilers thread (that is for the with spoilers thread) especially when the promo monkeys are tricky bastards playing three card monte with the trailers.  We knew "everything" and the episodes started airing and we found out we knew nothing.

 

So given the proximity of Father Gabriel to Terminus,  there is a good chance that some of the people locked out of the church ended up as cannibals.  I wonder if that is how we find out about what he did instead of him eventually confessing.

 

Does anyone have any idea why the trees that Morgan followed were marked?  One group of cannibal hunters wouldn't need to do that right?  Is it possible there are multiple bands of hunters? Or they are sending out scouts?

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Does anyone have any idea why the trees that Morgan followed were marked? One group of cannibal hunters wouldn't need to do that right? Is it possible there are multiple bands of hunters? Or they are sending out scouts?

No idea, but the Terminus sign that Rick defaced was overgrown with kudzu, so the Morgan scene was a flash-forward.

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No idea, but the Terminus sign that Rick defaced was overgrown with kudzu, so the Morgan scene was a flash-forward.

 

Oh, I completely missed that.  Timey-wimey gets me every time.  So that lends some support to the idea that they are going to hang around for a while to deal with Hunters and find Beth/Carol/Daryl.  Abraham won't be happy.

 

I just realized that Hunters in the area is going to be the thing that gets Michonne's katana returned.  My crystal ball says someone will eat shish kaBob off Michonne's sword.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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I reject the premise that there is definitive proof in the speculation without spoilers thread (that is for the with spoilers thread) especially when the promo monkeys are tricky bastards playing three card monte with the trailers.  We knew "everything" and the episodes started airing and we found out we knew nothing.

 

So given the proximity of Father Gabriel to Terminus,  there is a good chance that some of the people locked out of the church ended up as cannibals.  I wonder if that is how we find out about what he did instead of him eventually confessing.

 

Does anyone have any idea why the trees that Morgan followed were marked?  One group of cannibal hunters wouldn't need to do that right?  Is it possible there are multiple bands of hunters? Or they are sending out scouts?

I hadn't thought that they might have been former parishioners.

 

Someone mentioned the scratches possibly being Hobo signs that are used to show where you could find food and/or shelter, or be unwelcome.

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I hadn't thought that they might have been former parishioners.

 

Someone mentioned the scratches possibly being Hobo signs that are used to show where you could find food and/or shelter, or be unwelcome.

 

I hadn't thought of the hobo angle.  I just assumed that in a ZA there would people who would seek out their church both for solace and that is a typical place used as shelter (although usually not in the middle of the woods for the latter).  I thought we were supposed to conclude Gabriel didn't let his parishioners in from the scratch marks and writing.

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I thought we were supposed to conclude Gabriel didn't let his parishioners in from the scratch marks and writing.

 

You know, I've seen a few others mention this (and maybe this is what happened), but the church didn't look impregnable.  I think anybody (particularly a group) could bull their way into it.  I wonder (as others have) if Padre Gabe is in cahoots with Terminus, and sent all his parishioners there.  What I don't get is, if that's the case, what's in it for Gabe?  (Other than to live.)

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I hadn't thought of the hobo angle.  I just assumed that in a ZA there would people who would seek out their church both for solace and that is a typical place used as shelter (although usually not in the middle of the woods for the latter).  I thought we were supposed to conclude Gabriel didn't let his parishioners in from the scratch marks and writing.

Oh, I thought you were talking about the scratches on the trees, like the one Morgan looked at before he walked into the forest.

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I know we've talked about reasons DC might be a terrible idea---the huge population before the ZA, the huge violent crime problem before the ZA, the fact that Eugene is quite possibly full of shit, the likelihood that any govt shelter has used up all supplies and wouldn't let them in anyway...but have we got any idea what season it is?

 Were Joe and the Merletones just joking about New Year's Eve or was it for real? Wasn't that like a week ago in show-universe time?

 

The distance is over 600 miles. These are people who took a sports car to the vet college and estimated that would take 7 hours with all the shit on the roads. How many miles a day can they walk---especially when they are starving and getting beat up every 2 days?

I don't see how you could win no matter the month; if it's summer by the time they arrive it'll be even more chaotic, but if it's winter how are these people going to cope with a Washington DC snowmageddon?

 

All I know is that I'm exasperated enough that it never rains but one time in 4 years on this show, if they have Virginia in winter with no snow it will become a joke.

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Average estimated speed of reasonably healthy people maintaining a constantly moving walking pace over uneven terrain is roughly 3mph, sustainable for up to 10 hours/day - so approx. 30 miles a day (push harder than that, and you'll probably lose ground due to exhaustion and injuries).

So a 600 mile journey would take about three weeks of walking.

That's not including delays.

Which you KNOW will happen.

About every second or third day.

So figure a month, minimum.

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Hobo signs were the first thing I thought of when Morgan came upon that tree. That x inside a circle comes up in all the searches, but what about the scratch on the tree where Bob was caught? On first watch I thought it was just a horizontal line, but on rewatch it looks like a vertical line running down from the right edge of the horizontal line. Like the Greek letter gamma rotated 90 degrees clockwise. And it's not showing when I search for hobo signs. Any ideas?

Edited by Malaprop cocktail
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Hobo signs were the first thing I thought of when Morgan came upon that tree. That x inside a circle comes up in all the searches, but what about the scratch on the tree where Bob was caught? On first watch I thought it was just a horizontal line, but on rewatch it looks like a vertical line running down from the right edge of the horizontal line. Like the Greek letter gamma rotated 90 degrees clockwise. And it's not showing when I search for hobo signs. Any ideas?

Hmm, a sideways letter gamma? Maybe it means radioactivity nearby or that a zombiefied Hulk has fallen nearby.

Edited by lulee
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As for going to DC - I don't think they'll walk. That's why they're messing with the short bus. We know it gets them somewhere, at least, as we see it going over a bridge. Too bad they couldn't find some horses and a cart of some sort. 

 

As fort the signs on the tree, one with just a horizontal scratch and the other an x with a circle around it - maybe the one scratch is a signal to someone. And when something is completed they draw the other line and make the circle? I have no idea what it's a signal for, but I wonder if the solo scratch is part of the larger symbol somehow. 

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As for going to DC - I don't think they'll walk. That's why they're messing with the short bus. We know it gets them somewhere, at least, as we see it going over a bridge. Too bad they couldn't find some horses and a cart of some sort.

 

I think there are two different vehicles: the white mini-bus that flips at 2:13 in the ComicCon trailer and the white van with windows only part-way back at 2:23 in the CC trailer. The mini-bus flips; the van goes over the bridge. Hopefully cannibals are in at least one of them.

ETA: The church bus looks like it flips on a rural road. The van has a city skyline in the background, implying that at least some of the characters will make it to a large urban area.

Edited by lulee
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 but what about the scratch on the tree where Bob was caught? On first watch I thought it was just a horizontal line, but on rewatch it looks like a vertical line running down from the right edge of the horizontal line. Like the Greek letter gamma rotated 90 degrees clockwise. And it's not showing when I search for hobo signs. Any ideas?

The two lines were the beginning of a message Beth wanted to scrawl to Maggie:

LYLASA BFF OMG SHTF

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And there was something else about those lines.  It does appear to be drawn by Beth.  It wasn't clear, and many words remain unknown, but it's something like this:

 

X**XX** not  #**#** receptacle *&*#* #**@* penis!

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I wonder (as others have) if Padre Gabe is in cahoots with Terminus, and sent all his parishioners there.  What I don't get is, if that's the case, what's in it for Gabe?  (Other than to live.)

We know at least some of Father Gabriel's parishoners ended up in the food bank as walkers, though that doesn't rule out him being in cahoots with the Terminus people and sending stragglers to them later on.

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We know at least some of Father Gabriel's parishoners ended up in the food bank as walkers, though that doesn't rule out him being in cahoots with the Terminus people and sending stragglers to them later on.

 

You know, I was expecting a lot more Walkers at the food bank then there were.  Maybe I'm mistaken, but the padre gave me the impression there were a lot.  But it seemed like there were only 5 or 6.  (I mean, didn't Father Gabe specifically say that he didn't go there - though food was there - because there were a lot of them.  Of course, to him, 5 or 6 is a lot, I guess.)

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You know, I was expecting a lot more Walkers at the food bank then there were.  Maybe I'm mistaken, but the padre gave me the impression there were a lot.  But it seemed like there were only 5 or 6.  (I mean, didn't Father Gabe specifically say that he didn't go there - though food was there - because there were a lot of them.  Of course, to him, 5 or 6 is a lot, I guess.)

I think he said that there were "a dozen or so." I didn't count, but I think there were definitely more than 6.

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(edited)

Okay, who comes out of the woods with Daryl? Clearly it's not Beth. She has her whole crazy, hospital storyline. Unless he did get her that quickly? And what we see next week is what's been going through this whole time? 

 

I thought maybe it would be Morgan, but the way Daryl told the person to come out, it seemed like it would be someone Michonne knew. Heck, even Daryl doesn't know Morgan. 

 

I'm just really worried about Carol. Daryl's face did NOT look good when Michonne asked where she was. But would they really just kill her off screen and that's it? We're done? I can't.

 

Someone come allay my fears!

Edited by ghoulina
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I just assumed it's Carole—but the promo monkeys were trying to build suspense.

Edited to add that it's not Morgan. The kudzu on the Terminus sign that Rick defaced means his scene was a flash forward.

Edited by editorgrrl
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I'm holding on to hope that Daryl had Carol and Beth behind him. That Carol was helping Beth (or vice versa, I guess) and he was just giving them the all clear to come out after he saw that there wasn't a herd of walkers by the church or whatever.

 

How many storyline days has it been since Beth was taken -- 5? 6?

 

Anyway, judging by the look out Beth's window, I'm guessing we now know where that van plunging off the side of the bridge takes place.

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How many storyline days has it been since Beth was taken -- 5? 6?

 

Yes, I think that's about right. A week at most. 

 

But Daryl has been gone, what? Twenty-four hours? That just doesn't seem like enough time to have tracked her down and rescued her. I don't know, something about his face seemed so dejected. 

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In this interview Andy Lincoln says that during the grave-digging scene with Rick & Tyreese he didn't know about what happened between Tyreese & Martin:

I chose that that was information Rick didn't know. I don't think there'd been a point in the story off-camera that we had that discussion.

So when Chad Colman was on Talking Dead for the previous episode and said he thought Martin was dead, I think he was speaking as the actor rather than as the character.

Edited by editorgrrl
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Yeah, I do find it in character for Tyrese that he wouldn't have told anyone about Martin at all. Only Carol knew about Martin and he wouldn't tell her. Telling anyone else would have started to get into details that Ty didn't want to delve into.

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When Tyreese told Carole not to go in the shed because he took care of Martin, did he think Martin was a.) alive, or b.) dead but going to turn? Because there's no plausible way he could've thought he'd destroyed Martin's brain. (In the church, Martin lowered his hoodie to reveal a swollen eye. Until then, he'd looked virtually unscathed.)

And I find it interesting that the actors don't always know what's going on. I remember Sonequa Martin-Green saying once on Talking Dead that Sasha was a firefighter pre–ZA. So I guess I always assumed the actors knew more than the viewers.

Edited by editorgrrl
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I think they're often given some backstory when they start a character, but I think I've read of a number of cases, not necessarily regarding TWD, where an actor discussed not knowing a key piece of information that would have been meaningful to their character. In some cases, the showrunners want it to be ambiguous to the audience and want the actor to play the scene ambiguously too.

 

So anyone feel like speccing about Beth? Like:
Was that funeral home a trap to capture people from? If so, how did her captors know? Also if so, how did the same car almost happen across Carol? Just by chance?
What city was Beth taken to and what did people do to her?
How does the plummeting white van factor in?

 

I can't say that Emily Kinney's my favorite actor on the show, but I'm game for one Beth-centric episode because it's looking like it'll introduce such a different slice of the ZA.

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So anyone feel like speccing about Beth? Like:

  • Was that funeral home a trap to capture people from? If so, how did her captors know?
  • Also if so, how did the same car almost happen across Carol? Just by chance?
  • What city was Beth taken to and what did people do to her?
  • How does the plummeting white van factor in?

 

Judging by the look out Beth's window, I'm guessing we now know where that van plunging off the side of the bridge takes place.

 

I suspect that Beth was taken for breeding stock, or medical experimentation. I hope she's somewhere between Georgia & Washington, DC, and that Abraham drives the white church bus off a bridge.

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I suspect that Beth was taken for breeding stock, or medical experimentation. I hope she's somewhere between Georgia & Washington, DC, and that Abraham drives the white church bus off a bridge.

But it's not the church but going off the bridge just outside a big city in ruins. It's a white van.

 

The church bus flips over a car out in the country, presumably stranding Abe, Rosita, Eugene, Tara, Glenn, and Maggie. Possibly leading them to the fire station seen in the Comic Con trailer.

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Did anyone, when watching the preview for next week, have flashbacks to Days Gone Bye? And Rick awaking in the hospital? Didn't he look at the clock right away, like Beth did? Even the view out the window looked familiar. I'm not saying it's the same hospital, but there were some eerie parallels. And I've noticed they focus on clocks/watches/time a lot on this show, which is interesting given how little time means in a post apocalyptic world. 

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I suspect that Beth was taken for breeding stock, or medical experimentation. I hope she's somewhere between Georgia & Washington, DC, and that Abraham drives the white church bus off a bridge.

But it's not the church bus going off the bridge just outside a big city in ruins. It's a white van.

 

The church bus flips over a car out in the country, presumably stranding Abe, Rosita, Eugene, Tara, Glenn, and Maggie. Possibly leading them to the fire station seen in the Comic Con trailer.

 

Yes, my "hope" was entirely wishful thinking. A girl can dream, can't she? Perhaps Abraham flips the church bus, finds the white van, then drives that off a bridge, killing himself, Eugene, Rosita, and Maggie. (Glenn & Tara can live.)

 

I should join that prayer circle from the episode thread:

My DVR cut off before next week's preview, but sweet baby Jesus, grant me the patience to endure the Beth-centric episode that's obviously coming.  And please, dear Lord, limit it to one episode.  You didn't do this with the governor, even after I asked nicely.

My fellow redhead, we prayed separately for the show to limit the Guv-centric shows. Maybe if we form a prayer circle, it will really work this time. How about next Sunday at 8:50 Eastern time? And don't forget about Daylight Saving Time ending Sunday at 2AM.

Edited by editorgrrl
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This show has a decided one-step forward, two-steps back thing going on.  And It feels intentional, kinda like the writers don't want to get to the good stuff quite yet.

 

Having said that, they sure dispensed with Gareth and all it took was about forty whacks with a red-handled machete.  (I think Lizzie Borden could have done it quicker than Rick.)

 

At least the Beth-episode will take us out of the "Washington or Not" saga.  (I mean, it's almost humorous.  Abraham is so hell-bent on getting there he, apparently, drives the bus over a car, like Burt Reynolds, but with less-than-spectacular results.)

 

Also: "Rick, here's the route we'll be following.  If you want to catch up, you'll find us here."  These guys never go in a straight line.  It's been, what, two years, and I think they've walked in circles.  They seem to be in the same spot they started.

Edited by JackONeill
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I suspect that Beth was taken for breeding stock, or medical experimentation.

 

A rebreeding program for the human race is what popped into my mind, too. Young woman kidnapped, put in a hospital... They didn't want or need Daryl. Someone somewhere has to be worrying about impending human extinction.

 

I hope it isn't dragged out too long, whatever it is.

 

Though I don't think the human race is in any danger of disappearing. I was lying awake one night doing the math. If, say, 90% of the population became zombies, the remaining 10% would only have to kill nine zombies apiece to get rid of them all (the inability of young children, elderly types to kill zombies would be offset by the Michones and Daryls, who take out wide swaths). Three a week, and the zombies would be wiped out within a month. Follow up with a cultural change in dealing with dead bodies with quick brain trepanning, and in a year or so, zombies wouldn't even be a threat anymore.

 

Of course, it's fiction, and fun, so there is that. The cannibal thing is also a stretch. It's not rational to eat people, unless chicken, cows and pigs -- all much easier to farm and butcher than humans, and more nutritious, too, having been bred for centuries for the purpose -- are somehow difficult to find. Some are around somewhere, I should think. Most human cultures that have engaged in cannibalism believed they were consuming the spirit of the other person, or their strength, etc., unless they were really, really desperate and starving, and the Termites seemed like neither.

 

OK, enough reality. Are we really going to have an entire Beth-centric episode? Err.... not really looking forward to that. I have to say, I forgot that Maggie was her sister, since she never even mentions Beth.

 

I bet that somehow we find out that Eugene is lying about knowing the "cure," and lied to get Abraham to be his personal bodyguard. It seems like Abraham is the one who is anxious to get to Washington, not Eugene. I look forward to when Abraham finds out Eugene's a crock.

 

Not happy that they split the group again.

Edited by Andromeda
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I'll take everyone at there word that the hospital that Beth is in isn't the one Rick woke up in but its too bad.  It would tie things together pretty neatly in terms of why Morgan decided to leave town.  I think it would be kind of interesting to see what Rick would do if they made his home town a safe place (from zombies) ala Woodbury but it had the dark underbelly of Terminus/Governor.  But given that Rick has been home all of that seems like it would be repeating themselves so I guess its for the best.

 

Its also better not to remind me of that niggling little doubt that all of this is Rick's coma dream.  I hate that theory.

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I think next week is going to be mostly a Governor-style flashback from Beth getting kidnapped up to the present.  One of the scenes appears to be her waking up after first arriving.  Even with that, I'm not sure Beth is with Daryl.  He's only been gone a day at the most, which doesn't seem like enough time to get to whatever city she's being held at, mount a rescue and get back.  If Beth wasn't in the car when Daryl and Carol went after it, I'm guessing they caught up to the car and have a prisoner they need to interrogate for Beth's whereabouts.  I think this will lead CDB to the hospital where Beth is and where they will magically reunite with the Clown Car Crew.

 

 Speaking of the car with the cross, why is it darting around random location in Georgia at night, where CDB just happens to cross paths with it.  The funeral home might have been a trap laid by the hospital group, but why were they in the middle of nowhere racing past a church in the woods?

 

 On a different subject, the AMC write up of the season premiere indicates that Morgan ran across the Terminus sign months after Rick defaced it.  Presumably Morgan is going to catch up to CDB at some point (otherwise why reintroduce him) but that would mean that CDB won't get that far from the current area.  If he's already months behind where the season started, there's no way he can catch up to them if they get very far to DC.  And if he is months behind, barring a time jump during the season I assume he won't meet up until around the finale.

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I wonder if they'll ever bring back the people from the episode with the guns, when Glenn was kidnapped. I doubt they will, but I sometimes wonder what happened to them in the Walking Dead world. I remember the Governor visiting a hospital to get an oxygen tank, was it? and wondering if it was the same place. I really need to watch the rest of the episodes on netflix.

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