Central City Citizen: The New Media Thread

[Trini]

This article is from 2015, but it wasn't posted here (found it searching for something else): 'The Power of Black Women in Fandom'

Quote

Black women fandoms are more likely to promote their favorite shows on social media. The Iris West Defense Squad, a huge contingent of black female fans of The Flash, have campaigned vigorously to get the show awards and nominations–and succeeded. Oftentimes they’d spend time voting and promoting endlessly. They’ve held all-night voting parties, during which those fans get little to no sleep. They spend more time promoting the show on social media than the interns that the CW pays to do the same.

Since black users use Twitter with greater frequency than their white counterparts[2] black female fans are more likely to interact and open up a dialog between fans and the show’s cast and crew. The Iris West Defense Squad started a twitter meme, #DoYouHaveADaughterJoe that quickly caught the cast’s attention, starting yet another dialog between this fan base and the producers, actors. In fact, The IWDS interacts with the producers, cast and crew, more than any other contingent of The Flash fandom.

Quote

But the hate that black women characters receives isn’t only blatant, with death threats and tirades of racial slurs there are often fans of the show who loathe her, but swear up and down they don’t know why. Here’s some anonymous quotes from white fans of The Flash regarding the show’s black leading lady, Iris West and her relationship with the white male protagonist, Barry Allen:

<...>

If you’re black, it’s easy to see the truth in their coded statements: “I don’t like her because she is black. I don’t want Iris to be with Barry because she is black.

Their statements and feelings actually say nothing about Iris as a character. What they do reveal is a window on how a society that stereotypes, mistreats, and often dehumanizes black women is so deeply ingrained into their subconscious that it even clouds their opinions of fictional characters.

 

[phoenics]

On 6/18/2020 at 8:18 PM, SevenStars said:

I'm happy Candice is speaking up about her experience being on the show. 

It made me sad when she said that “it’s one thing to make me the female lead of your show. it’s another thing to just to leave me there all alone.” Her fans noticed this from the start and created/organized a group just to defend her/push back against the hatred/meanness/bias and racist narrative against her the minute she  was announced as Iris. This is why she never throw her fans under the bus, even when some in the media attempted to make her say something against her fans fierce support and protection of her. 

I'm sure the IWDS feel validated knowing that despite what some fans claimed, they were not seeing things.

She's lucky because base on what I have seen and experience in fandoms/show, majority of Black female characters could really use a defense squad to have their backs. 

I'd love to see the video of this - sad I missed it... but the bolded literally made me catch my breath... that's what we've been saying all along - that the producers just left her alone to face down the racism - as if it was HER fault... they never stood up for her.

I'm really glad this conversation is being had but it is way too late. 

Nicole Beharie of Sleepy Hollow fame just revealed that she really didn't leave on her own, she was pretty much pushed out and then blackballed and blacklisted.  She had a defense squad, but we were powerless to stop what happened.  She is in the Miss Juneteenth movie and spilling tea about the BTS at Sleepy Hollow - where both she and Tom Mison got sick at the same time, they let HIM go home to recuperate, but made her stay and film.  What's crazy is the media was informed TM was sick, but not NB - this article was the first I heard of it.  Anyway, she was forced to keep filming and insulted with doctors everyday there to "prove" she was really sick and not lying and the end result was she developed an auto-immune disease and then she was labeled problematic and difficult and blacklisted.  One of the writers from the show (a black woman) says she was brought on to write for Abby, but told not to speak to NB at all and told NB was awful, etc... which she disputed and said NB was none of what they said and a super sweet person.

I'm FUMING.

Most of us Iris-West fans KNEW some ish was happening to NB/Abby and REFUSED to let that ish happen to Iris/CP.

And STILL ... all manner of foolishness popped off.

Honestly at this point when fans of black women characters say some ish is going on, folks need to just believe us.  Especially black women fans - we've lived this ish enough that we know it when we see it.

We know when a white woman colleague is angling for our spot or the spot of another black woman.  We know when we are being shut out or undermined.  We know when ish is going south and stuff doesn't make sense.

We know.

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by phoenics

[adora721]

Here's a Tumblr collation of a Twitter thread about NB and "Sleepy Hollow". What stands out most is, "Every show is its own little universe, and this one was a really uncomfortable place to not be white." I ache for what Candice must have endured and what Nicole B. endured.

Also, the implied fear of speaking up because of the potential to lose money, "And then you squirm and recall the $2 you have in your bank account..." This makes me wonder if that's why Carlos and the lower-level supporting cast didn't speak up for so long. No excuses, mind you, but perhaps there was genuine fear that supporting Candice might cost them a job. 

[ursula]

The beautiful thing about all this sadness is that it underlines what Black fans always knew. It wasn't in our heads. We weren't seeing things. We weren't "being racist" (yeah, that gets tossed around a lot - according to white supremacist logic, pointing out racism makes you the racist).

We saw this happen with Bonnie Bennett in The Vampire Diaries; with Lacey Porter in Twisted; with Jimmy Olsen in Supergirl. And we kept speaking up even in the middle of fandom's gaslighting. 

I just really, really hope that DP either gets fired or CatFrost's role gets reduced to insignificance. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by ursula

[SevenStars]

3 hours ago, phoenics said:

I'd love to see the video of this - sad I missed it... but the bolded literally made me catch my breath... that's what we've been saying all along - that the producers just left her alone to face down the racism - as if it was HER fault... they never stood up for her.

I'm really glad this conversation is being had but it is way too late. 

Nicole Beharie of Sleepy Hollow fame just revealed that she really didn't leave on her own, she was pretty much pushed out and then blackballed and blacklisted.  She had a defense squad, but we were powerless to stop what happened.  She is in the Miss Juneteenth movie and spilling tea about the BTS at Sleepy Hollow - where both she and Tom Mison got sick at the same time, they let HIM go home to recuperate, but made her stay and film.  What's crazy is the media was informed TM was sick, but not NB - this article was the first I heard of it.  Anyway, she was forced to keep filming and insulted with doctors everyday there to "prove" she was really sick and not lying and the end result was she developed an auto-immune disease and then she was labeled problematic and difficult and blacklisted.  One of the writers from the show (a black woman) says she was brought on to write for Abby, but told not to speak to NB at all and told NB was awful, etc... which she disputed and said NB was none of what they said and a super sweet person.

I'm FUMING.

Most of us Iris-West fans KNEW some ish was happening to NB/Abby and REFUSED to let that ish happen to Iris/CP.

And STILL ... all manner of foolishness popped off.

Honestly at this point when fans of black women characters say some ish is going on, folks need to just believe us.  Especially black women fans - we've lived this ish enough that we know it when we see it.

We know when a white woman colleague is angling for our spot or the spot of another black woman.  We know when we are being shut out or undermined.  We know when ish is going south and stuff doesn't make sense.

We know.

 

What really surprise me about NB interview is when she stated that her fans seems so aware of what was happening without her having so say anything because she couldn't say anything at the time but her fans seems to get what was happening to her/her character. 

Her interview makes me so grateful that Candice is able to speak some of her truth while still on the show. She might not be able to tell all but at least she is getting some stuff off her chest. I hope it doesn't cost her too much but it seems like she is aware that it might. 

[Trini]

Virtual conventions seem real easy to put together these days:

Former The Flash writer Judalina Niera part of a writers panel at LockDown Con, June 26-28:

 

[Trini]

Where Is The Buzz interview with Candice Patton:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdhTd1zqumc&feature=youtu.be

 

 

 

[ETA:] https://whereisthebuzz.com/candice-patton-talks-portraying-iris-west-on-the-flash-racism-and-her-fans/

Edited June 24, 2020 by Trini

[Trini]

Happy Birthday, Candice!

 

[Trini]

Anybody know which episode this was?? I can't remember a scene where Iris and Barry were in a car together. I think this might be season 1 or 2??

 

[adora721]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Anybody know which episode this was?? I can't remember a scene where Iris and Barry were in a car together. I think this might be season 1 or 2??

Based just on the clothes, my guess is it's "Out of Time", episode 1x15. This might be when Barry and Iris drive to the waterfront to get Joe back from the first Weather Master. Candice is wearing the green coat she had on when she and Barry kiss.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, adora721 said:

Based just on the clothes, my guess is it's "Out of Time", episode 1x15. This might be when Barry and Iris drive to the waterfront to get Joe back from the first Weather Master. Candice is wearing the green coat she had on when she and Barry kiss.

I thought 1x15 too, but the outfits are different; Barry's at least - although they're the same colors.

I saw a suggestion that it was 2x19, maybe?

[BeautifulFlower]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I thought 1x15 too, but the outfits are different; Barry's at least - although they're the same colors.

I saw a suggestion that it was 2x19, maybe?

It's from 2x19. They just cut the scene of them driving.

[Trini]

New info on Covid-19 safety guidelines for Vancouver productions. Still no definite word on when the show will start filming again.

[Trini]

Former The Flash writer, Judalina Niera (and Nancy Kiu, Batwoman) share little bits of info on screenwriting and writing for the DCTV shows at virtual LockDown Con: Panel is from 55:30 to 1:56:00

 

 

I thought it was interesting that they say that the various writers' rooms are close by and they can go ask about what's going on with the other shows and characters, yet the shows still get so much wrong!

[phoenics]

On 6/25/2020 at 1:54 AM, BeautifulFlower said:

It's from 2x19. They just cut the scene of them driving.

Of course they did.  *rolls eyes*

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Former The Flash writer, Judalina Niera (and Nancy Kiu, Batwoman) share little bits of info on screenwriting and writing for the DCTV shows at virtual LockDown Con: Panel is from 55:30 to 1:56:00

 

 

I thought it was interesting that they say that the various writers' rooms are close by and they can go ask about what's going on with the other shows and characters, yet the shows still get so much wrong!

Judalina asking is a nonstarter though.  She used to like Iris-hater tweets on twitter.  Fans even recently called her out for it.  All of the writers are so problematic in general, imo.

[adora721]

 

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

Of course they did.  *rolls eyes*

Judalina asking is a nonstarter though.  She used to like Iris-hater tweets on twitter.  Fans even recently called her out for it.  All of the writers are so problematic in general, imo.

The fans recently called Judalina out for supporting the idea that the Flash has two leading ladies, Candice and Danielle P. Judalina refused to back down and  actually went so far as to say she thinks of Grant and Carlos as both leading men.  She even tried to say that stating that Candice was the only leading lady was pitting women against each other. 

Judalina finally relented with a weak apology. Why she couldn't abide the truth that CP is the only leading lady is beyond me.  It's said that the writer who wrote the S6 finale, the one with the SB tease for Barry and KF/Cait, is a friend of Judalina.

[phoenics]

20 minutes ago, adora721 said:

 

The fans recently called Judalina out for supporting the idea that the Flash has two leading ladies, Candice and Danielle P. Judalina refused to back down and  actually went so far as to say she thinks of Grant and Carlos as both leading men.  She even tried to say that stating that Candice was the only leading lady was pitting women against each other. 

Judalina finally relented with a weak apology. Why she couldn't abide the truth that CP is the only leading lady is beyond me.  It's said that the writer who wrote the S6 finale, the one with the SB tease for Barry and KF/Cait, is a friend of Judalina.

I saw that too - it was trifling.  This is the whole problem going on with the writers - even the women writers - they seem to think DP is at the same level as CP, no doubt this was what AJK pushed behind the scenes and clearly that's still going on now even if EW claims he was writing more for CP.

I think I copied the tweets for posterity.  I hate that we have to call people out so hard with receipts but that was just trifling on her part.  And then the weak sauce of trying to claim Carlos was as much of a lead as Grant, WTF.

She'd have been better off using the "they're an ensemble cast" BS the original Roswell show did when they wallpapered Shiri Appleby, who actually had top billing over everyone else, even Jason Behr.  Though she did kinda try that at some point in the back and forth.

Oh and that writer for ep 6.19 - she was blocking Iris fans left and right who called out the baiting she did and then she was liking posts by virulent racist SB fans who were thanking her for the SB shippiness.  When IW/WA fans pointed out the racism of the SB fans she was catering to (specifically the ones whose tweets she liked), she blocked them.

Thankfully fans got screenshots and it was all called out on some of the threads blasting DP, the producers, WB and others for pandering to racism within the fandom.

Edited June 28, 2020 by phoenics

[Trini]

A quote from Wallace at TV Line; essentially saying that the interruption of Season 6 affects the pacing of Season 7 (...obviously) :

Quote

“Because this is The Flash, there’s a huge twist at the end of every season, and that twist is now kind of coming in the middle of the [start of the] season,” Wallace told TVLine. “And that has really affected our storytelling for all of Season 7,” which is hoped to premiere in January 2021.

Wallace, though, chooses to see the ripple effect as “yet another blessing in disguise,” akin to how Crisis drove the first half of Season 6. “Amid the horror and the tragedy of what’s happening with this pandemic, if we can find some kind of lemonade in the lemon, it’s us having to rethink a few things about how a Flash season looks, given this ‘narrative unpredictability’ to the season.

“There are going to be more Graphic Novels next year,” he assured, “but they’re not going to be broken up in the way I think folks expect.”

Bold of him to assume I have expectations. I hope they go back to a more case-of-the-week format with just one ongoing arc, because even with the "graphic novel" format their pacing is still not great.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Trini

[Trini]

Interview/conversation with new Flash writer Jess Carson on instagram:

She says she feels welcomed in the writers room; talks about her career path so far;

 

[adora721]

On another note, seems DP has deleted like 6,000 + of her tweets. 

[Trini]

You can submit questions for the DC Fandome event:

https://questions.dcfandome.com/
 

 

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, adora721 said:

On another note, seems DP has deleted like 6,000 + of her tweets. 

She has to clean up her past.  Don't worry - twitter has already copied EVERYTHING.

[Trini]

Video of Tom Cavanagh on the Inside of You podcast; Danielle P. intro starts at 3:48, she mentions a bit about directing The Flash, and her family, in addition to talking about Tom. Actual interview with Tom starts at 11:24.

x

 

With the way he explained it, I can see why he has stayed with the show. I still don't like it -- but I get it. I wish the writing for his characters was better.

[Trini]

Danielle Nicolet interview at Where is the Buzz: https://whereisthebuzz.com/danielle-nicolet-talks-the-flash-systematic-racism-and-the-reform-project/

 

[Trini]

Leo Awards update:

Quote

Due to continued restrictions around Covid-19, the 2020 LEO AWARDS will be live-streamed on YouTube July 28, 29, 30 beginning at 7:00pm PDT each evening.

Awards for drama series are July 30.

The Flash has one nomination, for Visual Effects.

[Trini]

Tom Cavanagh and Danielle Nicolet to be virtual guests at Armageddon Expo in Christchurch, New Zealand this Sunday July 19th. The panel is 11am local time.

Other panels:

July 26 - Tauranga, NZ -- 11am - Danielle Nicolet;  12pm - Danielle Panabaker

August 1 - Wellington, NZ -- 12pm - Carlos Valdes and Danielle Nicolet

[catrice2]

I am curious....does anyone see Candice leaving the Flash, assuming it is picked up for another year?  I have always felt that there is an underlying issue or something that is not being spoken about that is evident in their performances. 

[SevenStars]

24 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I am curious....does anyone see Candice leaving the Flash, assuming it is picked up for another year?  I have always felt that there is an underlying issue or something that is not being spoken about that is evident in their performances. 

I have never seen it in her performances but I think if things don't change backstage, she might seriously consider leaving. 

[Starry]

58 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I am curious....does anyone see Candice leaving the Flash, assuming it is picked up for another year?  I have always felt that there is an underlying issue or something that is not being spoken about that is evident in their performances. 

I take the fact that she's so vocal about things needing to change BTS and in the writers room as evidence that she isn't planning on leaving.

Whose performances are you referring to?

[ursula]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

I have always felt that there is an underlying issue or something that is not being spoken about that is evident in their performances.

The underlying issue is racism.

She’s not going anywhere.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

I am curious....does anyone see Candice leaving the Flash, assuming it is picked up for another year?  I have always felt that there is an underlying issue or something that is not being spoken about that is evident in their performances. 

I think she'll be here as long as Grant and the show is still around.

As to the last sentence, could you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean.

[ursula]

19 minutes ago, Trini said:

As to the last sentence, could you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean.

I can’t speak for @catrice2but there’s a lightness in Candice’s performance in 1A that is missing in most of the seasons. That’s attrition, the result of microaggressions.

[SevenStars]

2 hours ago, ursula said:

I can’t speak for @catrice2but there’s a lightness in Candice’s performance in 1A that is missing in most of the seasons. That’s attrition, the result of microaggressions.

I think this difference have more to do with the writing for Iris. In S1 she seems more carefree and like a youth young woman. But in recent seasons she seems less "light" and more  "mature", even in the way they dress her. 

[ursula]

32 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

I think this difference have more to do with the writing for Iris. In S1 she seems more carefree and like a youth young woman. But in recent seasons she seems less "light" and more  "mature", even in the way they dress her. 

I think it’s a feedback cycle. Iris’s “maturity” is tied to the show runners wanting her to fit into the Strong Black Woman mould because the carefree/immature personality of 1A doesn’t fit with what they think a Black woman can be.... 2A super sidelined Candice, all but wrote her off the show and I can just imagine how traumatizing that must have felt, getting her scripts and counting her lines, watching her character become just someone who stood in the background for most of her shoots, wondering if today would be the day she’d read a script where Iris was killed off. Didn’t Candice say that she didn’t know Iris would survive in season 3? And it was Grant who told her that her character wasn’t getting killed off? Can you imagine working under those kind of conditions?
And these are just a handful of the many many micro aggressions that Candice faced, the few we got to see or read between the lines.

Edited July 14, 2020 by ursula

[Trini]

Haven't found any video or reports yet, but here is a couple photos of Danielle N. and Tom C. at Armageddon Expo this weekend:

 

 

[Trini]

DCTV Comic-Con highlights from ET; plus bonus Grant and Candice:

'ET's Most Outrageous Moments With Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl and More!':

 

 

[Trini]

Danielle P. at Armageddon Expo:

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Trini

[Trini]

'Warner Bros. TV Sets Tentative Late August Production Restart Dates For Vancouver-Based Series'

Quote

... The situation remains fluid, but I hear Warner Bros. TV is planning for a late-August starts for the studio’s Vancouver-based broadcast series. Because a 30-day notice to actors is required, the casts of a number of WBTV series filming in Vancouver this week received letters from the studio, informing them that their services for the 2020-21 season will commence in August, subject to SAG approval.

The planned start dates, which are tentative amid a COVID-19 spike in the U.S., vary for the various shows; I hear they range between Aug. 20-27. I hear the dates reflect when actors would need to arrive in Vancouver for a two-week self-isolation required by British Columbia, the province that Vancouver is part of. Filming would start after the end of the quarantine period.

The list of WBTV shows that are eying late August starts include most Berlanti Prods. series, which film in Vancouver, including The Flash, Riverdale and Superman and Lois. 

 

-------

I imagine that filming may take longer with having to follow new rules because of the pandemic? In any case, production is starting back sooner than I thought. I was thinking maybe September/October.

[Starry]

Early September sounds about right. Because of the two-week quarantine they won't film anything before then.

[phoenics]

We aren't the only ones who noticed DP's mass delete.  https://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/why-did-the-flashs-danielle-panabaker-mass-delete-thousands-of-tweets.php 

[Trini]

The Flash and Armen Kevorkian and his team won a sixth Leo award for Visual Effects!

Virtual ceremony can be viewed here; the Visual Effects categoty starts at 1:33:22.

https://youtu.be/AXTYktGiyWM

---

[ETA:] Congrats tweet:

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Trini

[Trini]

Pic of Carlos and Danielle Nicolet at Armageddon Expo this past weekend:

 

[Trini]

CW did some better quality/new versions of the 'Masks' promos previously put out by WB:

[Trini]

Promo for DC Fandome with a clip of Gustin's Flash:

https://twitter.com/CW_TheFlash/status/1291056635553751041

 

(They gotta stop using clips from when the cowl looked it's worst, though!) I hope the schedule is out soon.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

 

[Trini]

29 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

 

That looks amazing! Another Iris poster in the collection!

We're not going to have new show content for a while, so it's good they're at least working on promo stuff. I wonder if they are doing this for all the cast?

 

[Trini]

And another FanDome promo using imagery from the shows:

 

[Trini]

This is from Matt's spoiler column at TVLine, but it spoils nothing, so I'm putting it here:

Quote

Early in Season 6 of The Flash, Nash detected Eternium particles on Iris. Will that come back into play in any way? —Mariam

I, for one, always thought that what Nash in fact was picking up on was the Anti-Monitor’s subterranean hideaway below where Iris were standing at the time. But to be safe, I ran your Q by Candice Patton, who said, “That’s a great question. I remember shooting that and thinking, ‘This is cool! What does this mean, if it means anything?’ And I don’t have an answer for that, so it will be interesting to see if we revisit that and see what that little nod was about.”

 

It seemed like this was something that would have been followed up on in Season 7 (or the Season 6 finale?), but by the time we get back to that it will be over a year since that Eternium reference. Any excitement I have for that has been long gone.

[adora721]

20 minutes ago, Trini said:

t seemed like this was something that would have been followed up on in Season 7 (or the Season 6 finale?), but by the time we get back to that it will be over a year since that Eternium reference. Any excitement I have for that has been long gone.

I'm wondering if the "Heroes will be reborn" text on the poster is a sly reference to Iris' comic origin of being born a thousand years in the future. What if the future is where Iris disappeared to in the season 6 finale.  When Iris is eventually rescued, Iris will have come from the future (nod, nod, wink, wink). Just a thought...

[Trini]

The Flash cast and producers participating in DC FanDome; it's interesting that Tom Cavanagh isn't listed (Jesse L. Martin isn't either, but he stopped doing these things a while ago):

 

Full list : https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1291748978594324483

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Trini