Gotham Wish List: Hope For A Hopeless City

[The Crazed Spruce]

So, what do you want to see on the show?

Personally, I'm hoping for cameos by Kevin Conroy, Val Kilmer, Michael Keaton, Adam West, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Mark Hammill, passing references to the names Finger, Moldoff, O'Neill, Aparo, and Breyfogle, and I want the final scene of the series, about 7 or 8 years down the road, to involve a bat flying through the window of Wayne Manor.

So that's my wish list. What about yours?

[Tableau]

Kevin Conroy please!

[Kromm]

CGI Penguins!

 

KIDDING!!!

[Trini]

Shame on me, I hadn't even thought of Hamill! That would be great. And there's hope, because they convinced him to do a cameo for Chuck, so I assume this is an easier sell.

I wish they would keep the Joker out of this. Even a "pre-Joker". (From interviews, etc, you know they're going to go there.) I know he has various origins, but in my mind, the Joker only exists because Batman exists.

[Tableau]

I always liked the Jack Naplier Joker from the animated series. Someone who was already a pyscho getting the final push to oblivion by Batman accidentally.

The whole Red Hood storyline always bothered me. I cannot believe that someone as sick and twisted as the Joker was ever an inoccent person who was just misunderstood. Total cheap BS storytelling if you ask me.

[Chip]

6 month old Dick Grayson with a little stuffed robin toy (kidding, please don't have this)

[darkestboy]

The first season is meant to be 16 episodes. I think that's a good number for episodes every season for however long the show lasts.

 

Some other Batverse actors to appear in guest roles like the ones mentioned in this thread, provided they're right for the roles in question.

[JayKay]

Lynda Carter in some capacity would be really neat since it might be the only chance we have of seeing Wonder Woman and Batman in some quality live action together.

[Kromm]

My worry about the stunt casting is that some of these people will stick out like a sore thumb.  Whatever your judgement of Lynda Carter's acting, for example, she's definitely not someone who disappears in a role.  You see her, even today, and you kneejerk blurt most of the time "Wonder Woman!".

 

I think this leads to a heavy dose of breaking the fourth wall.  Already we're dealing with seeing Ryan from The O.C., but that's one that at least we'd have a chance to adjust to over time.  

BTW:  Supposedly Wonder Woman is going to be in the Justice League movie following Batsy vs. Soupy (as well as a solo WW film being back on).  AND she'll also be in "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice". So in theory the Batsy and Wondy on the same screen thing IS happening.  Maybe.  Okay, we don't know for sure if that will fall apart or not.  But I DO take your point about "quality".  Those films will likely stink, if Synder is in charge..

[GHScorpiosRule]

My worry about the stunt casting is that some of these people will stick out like a sore thumb.  Whatever your judgement of Lynda Carter's acting, for example, she's definitely not someone who disappears in a role.  You see her, even today, and you kneejerk blurt most of the time "Wonder Woman!".

 

Not necessarily. She appeared in Smallville as Chloe's recasted mother, and I didn't find her sticking out, because she didn't take over the episode, if you will. It all just depends.

[scarynikki12]

 

in my mind, the Joker only exists because Batman exists.

AMEN!  

 

I absolutely DO NOT WANT the Joker to be in this series and I say this as a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE Joker fan.  I love him more than any villain ever.  But, like you and countless comics have pointed out, he is at his best when the narrative presents him as only existing because Bats does.  Now, since I try to be a reasonable person, I'm willing to compromise.  If the Joker absolutely HAS to be in the show, then he needs to show up in the series finale.  And don't let us see him.  Just bring in our main man Hamill to do the laugh in maybe the second to last scene (the last would be setting up Bruce making his official move towards becoming Bats, likely with Gordon) and that would be enough.

 

 

6 month old Dick Grayson with a little stuffed robin toy (kidding, please don't have this)

Or, leave it in the background and don't draw any attention to it.  Let it be an easter egg for us to find.

[darkestboy]

Paul Dini wrote some amazing episodes for Batman: The Animated Series. I'd love to see him write at least one episode for Gotham.

[JayKay]

Paul Dini wrote some amazing episodes for Batman: The Animated Series. I'd love to see him write at least one episode for Gotham.

With a Zatara appearance! Maybe an ineffectual magic show for troubled little Bruce Wayne? Or entertaining at a Policeman's Ball?

[MarkHB]

They've said that they may hint at various people who could be the Joker.  I don't mind if they do that subtly, without nailing it down.  Having said that, here's my dream setup for the final season:

 

Gordon and Bullock hear the first reports of a burglary gang led by someone in a red hood.  Over the course of the season, we see that various people who have been hinted at in connection with the Joker over the years could each secretly be the Red Hood.  Meanwhile, Bruce has grown to adulthood, and is nearing the completion of his self-imposed training.  Various COTWs ensue for Gordon and Bullock, with the Red Hood case as a season-long arc.

 

In the Two-Hour Series Finale, Bruce decides he is ready and that his first case is to capture the Red Hood.  Having found out that the gang will be hitting either a playing card company or a chemical plant, he disguises himself as an ordinary street brawler (a la Batman: Year One) and goes out to break up the robbery.  However,It all goes south: just being an ordinary tough guy doesn't give him any advantage over the Hood's gang, and he narrowly manages to escape (albeit in a Batman-esque manner) while the Hood falls into a vat of chemical goo.  Gordon and Bullock, also at the scene, are none-too impressed with the mysterious interloper, but they round up the rest of the gang, none of whom know who the Red Hood actually is.  At the 1:40 mark, we see Bruce, sitting in Wayne Manor, perhaps talking to Alfred, as he works out that he's going to need some sort of disguise to give him an advantage and a reputation (maybe he sees news from Metropolis of a new hero who has arrived there).  He may even recite a version of Bill Finger's "criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot" speech... and then a bat flies through the window.  Go to commercial.

 

Final act, we cycle through 3 plotlines: We see Bruce and Alfred working out the suit.  Gordon and Bullock determine that all the potential Jokers we have seen over the course of the years/season either have alibis or are dead.  The Red Hood managed to wash up and make it to a medical facility where he is heavily bandaged and listed as a John Doe.  As the show concludes, scenes of the bandages being cut off are intertwined with Bruce suiting up, until at the end we see from behind the last of the bandages falling away, revealing green hair and paste-white skin.  The Joker loses his mind at that moment, and launches into the patented hysterical laughter, which fades into a final shot from Wayne Manor of Bruce pulling the cowl over his head, and we see him in full form as The Batman enters the world for the first time.  (Personally, I'd hope they close with the Danny Elfman theme music, but that's just me.)  Fade to a shot of Gotham with a searchlight splitting the night sky, hinting at the future Bat-signal.

[darkestboy]

A scene with Edward and Oswald.

[Actionmage]

I would like us to see young inter Leslie Thompkins be the doctor that helps Bruce in the immediate aftermath of his parents' murders. She and Jim Gordon could share an unspoken guardianship of the kid because they truly saw how devastated Bruce was and want to work to find the killer (Jim) and heal him as best as they can (Leslie).  It also works for why Bruce would seek her out as an adult. Maybe Thomas Wayne was her mentor?  Nah, that sounds too soapy (and I'm a fan of good soap opera) and insular to me. If not, why not keep a discrete eye on the orphaned son of a favorite teacher? 

 

I would like to see an episode sort of like "Almost Had 'Em" from the animated series. Only instead of the folks the episode used, it's cops about ...Fish Mooney or Rupert Thorne or whomever the Big Bad is in Gotham. It could start after a bust that didn't go right , and Harvey's trying to help Jim get over this setback. Some other cops join in. It would highlight how tough the job Jim's set for himself, yet show that not every cop is crooked. Except for the one who sneaks away to report back.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Actionmage

[Rick Kitchen]

 

Over the course of the season, we see that various people who have been hinted at in connection with the Joker over the years could each secretly be the Red Hood.  Meanwhile, Bruce has grown to adulthood

 

I definitely do NOT want Bruce grown up by the end of the first season.  That isn't what this show is about, and Ben McKenzie is too young to be an aged Jim Gordon.

 

I do wonder if Jim Gordon has a baby daughter named Barbara, though.

.

[Kromm]

I do wonder if Jim Gordon has a baby daughter named Barbara, though.

Casting says

there's a character named Barbara Kean.  Which means he hasn't even married Babs Senior yet.

[MarkHB]

I definitely do NOT want Bruce grown up by the end of the first season.  That isn't what this show is about, and Ben McKenzie is too young to be an aged Jim Gordon.

 

I do wonder if Jim Gordon has a baby daughter named Barbara, though.

.

Oh, I completely agree!  Allow me to draw your attention to my lead-in paragraph from the post you quoted:

 

 

 

Having said that, here's my dream setup for the final season:

(Emphasis added.)

 

I don't know if Gordon has a daughter yet, as I'm not sure where he and Barbara are in their relationship.  I'd like to see it, but who knows when.

Edited July 20, 2014 by MarkHB

[Rick Kitchen]

Variety says Jim Gordon and Barbara Kean are engaged.

[JayKay]

Couldn't he have a brother with a daughter named Barbara? I think she's still ambiguously his niece in current comics continuity.

[Kromm]

Couldn't he have a brother with a daughter named Barbara? I think she's still ambiguously his niece in current comics continuity.

Nah, they undid that explicitly in this "New 52" thing, and for years before that had implied (even if never said) it was quietly undone even before that.  She's quite definitely back to being Jim's biological daughter, from a woman named Barbara.  Gordon doesn't even have siblings in the current continuity.

 

In fact, Barbara (Junior) has even got an older brother James--who's also a Junior (who DC did all kinds of horrible things to as a character).

 

My gut says that they'll stick closer to the original Batman TV and even moreso the DC Animated Universe interpretations, with Babs Senior being Gordon's wife, and Babs Jr. being their only kid, and then somewhere along the line Senior dying (whereas in the current comics she's still alive, albeit divorced).

[JayKay]

Nah, they undid that explicitly in this "New 52" thing, and for years before that had implied (even if never said) it was quietly undone even before that.  She's quite definitely back to being Jim's biological daughter, from a woman named Barbara.  Gordon doesn't even have siblings in the current continuity.

 

In fact, Barbara (Junior) has even got an older brother James--who's also a Junior (who DC did all kinds of horrible things to as a character).

 

My gut says that they'll stick closer to the original Batman TV and even moreso the DC Animated Universe interpretations, with Babs Senior being Gordon's wife, and Babs Jr. being their only kid, and then somewhere along the line Senior dying (whereas in the current comics she's still alive, albeit divorced).

That's actually a relief. I never liked all of the fiddling done with that and it was kind of sleazy. And the stuff with her ca-raaazy brother was straight-up soap opera. I hope you're right about them possibly sticking with the DCAU interpretation, even if it means we never actually get to meet baby Barbara in this series until near the end.

[darkestboy]

I'd like an Almost Got 'Im type of episode as well.

 

I'd also like one that sort of connects Oswald, Edward, Selina and Ivy without them actually interacting as such. Maybe a character gets involved in each of their subplots and then one of the four ends up causing the character's downfall or something.

[Kromm]

I'd like an Almost Got 'Im type of episode as well.

 

I'd also like one that sort of connects Oswald, Edward, Selina and Ivy without them actually interacting as such. Maybe a character gets involved in each of their subplots and then one of the four ends up causing the character's downfall or something.

It would almost have to be that way, since the characters situations are so disparate at this early stage.  Two are children, but one is a street kid and one not, so if they meet at all it will be milked as a culture clash.  Two are adults, but they are at this stage on opposite sides of the law, and with Edward, as a forensic scientist, at that point clearly more of a behind the scenes person.  One could speculate about the mob eventually bribing him, but Edward-->Riddler seems more of a straight up "went insane" transition than a corruption.

[Rick Kitchen]

Three are kids - Selina, Ivy and Bruce.

[Kromm]

Three are kids - Selina, Ivy and Bruce.

I was replying to the statement "I'd also like one that sort of connects Oswald, Edward, Selina and Ivy".

Bruce was not part of that statement or the point the OP appeared to be making (that he wanted a story that connected the four future Batman villains without them ever meeting.

[Rick Kitchen]

Oh, sorry.  :D

[darkestboy]

Sorry if I wasn't clear but yeah, as I mentioned something/someone who gets involved with all four rogues and one of the rogues to bring about their ruin, although whether it would be deliberate or not would be the other thing.

[scarynikki12]

I hope that the show goes against its own retcon and reveals that Ivy Pepper's real name is Pamela Isley.  There are many ways they can do a name change so it doesn't have to be lame but I really want them to fix this mistake.  I know it's a little thing in the grand scheme of the show but I'm worried it will end up being foreshadowing.  There was absolutely no legitimate reason to change her name in the first place.  Changing her name implies that someone among the higher ups (DC, Fox-my #1 suspect, executive producers) felt that the audience wouldn't make the connection to the villain she grows up to be AND didn't trust the show enough to establish said connection as the episodes unfold.  If they don't undo their mistake I can only hope the show itself more than makes up for it because I do not want this to be the first of many unnecessary changes to the characters from the Batverse.  Now, if I have a choice between Poison Ivy getting an unnecessary name change and the Joker showing up before the final minutes of the series, I'll gladly take Ivy but I hope I won't have to make said choice.

[MarkHB]

I hope that the show goes against its own retcon and reveals that Ivy Pepper's real name is Pamela Isley.  There are many ways they can do a name change so it doesn't have to be lame but I really want them to fix this mistake. 

Did you see the interview with Bruno Heller I linked to in the Ivy thread where he explains where they're going with it?  It's certainly OK if you did and don't like what they're doing, but I was wondering where you're coming from.

[scarynikki12]

I did and it could very well work out great (I'm keeping an open mind until I see the execution).  It's more that I'm worried about the change in the first place.  There's absolutely no reason for it to begin with (if they really want to drive home her future as Poison Ivy, why not change Selina's name to Catherine-going by Cat, or Edward to Ridley, or Oswald to...something that connects to Penguin?-and I wouldn't support such changes either).  Like I wrote above, they can easily fix it and move on but the fact that they did it in the first place makes me wonder if we'll see similar unnecessary changes/mistakes.  My biggest hope is that this is the only area of the show I take issue with but its the unnecessary mistakes that lay the foundation for the bigger ones when shows go off the rails so we'll have to wait and see.

[MarkHB]

@scarynikki12, seeing your avatar I have to ask: were you at SDCC this year?  Did you get into either the Warner Bros. Films presentation or the Gotham premiere (I'm guessing not the latter since you imply you haven't seen it)?

Edited July 31, 2014 by MarkHB

[Kromm]

I did and it could very well work out great (I'm keeping an open mind until I see the execution).  It's more that I'm worried about the change in the first place.  There's absolutely no reason for it to begin with (if they really want to drive home her future as Poison Ivy, why not change Selina's name to Catherine-going by Cat, or Edward to Ridley, or Oswald to...something that connects to Penguin?-and I wouldn't support such changes either).

I think with Selina at least, it all comes down to what the largest part of the public "knows". With Catwoman especially, she's been on TV and movies four or five times, so the public knows her full name well.  "Oswald Cobblepot" probably gets the nod simply because it IS so odd.  With Edward, I think the general assumption is that "Edward" is just a placeholder for "E.", so he can be "E. Nygma".

 

"Pamela Isley" hasn't even consistently been Poison Ivy, since the first one was apparently named Lillian Rose (and that one lasted for many years).   Good ol' Pam DID get a pretty good boost from the Animated Series, admittedly, but I guess the showrunners still don't think it's as locked in as the other names for the non-cartoon watching public and can't resist tinkering.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Kromm

[scarynikki12]

I was at Comic Con this year but I wasn't at the DC event. I'd already made plans to have dinner with a friend so I skipped it.

[Trini]

I already ranted about the name change elsewhere, but I'll just say again, it was unnecessary because Poison Ivy is already one of the more recognizable villains (which is the whole reason why she's even showing up on this show!).

Anyway, I wish that we learn more about the Wayne family (any other relatives??) and Alfred. Those aspects of the Batman haven't been explored much.

[Kromm]

I already ranted about the name change elsewhere, but I'll just say again, it was unnecessary because Poison Ivy is already one of the more recognizable villains (which is the whole reason why she's even showing up on this show!).

She's possibly only recognizable to BTAS veterans.  Something tells me that FOX/the showrunners are under the impression they're somehow trying to tap into a different market that only knows Batman through theatrical movies.  Ivy DID appear in Batman & Robin, but that's the Bat movie people TRY to forget.

[Trini]

She's possibly only recognizable to BTAS veterans.

I don't think that is true, but even if it was, isn't that generation (part of) the target demo anyway?

[Kromm]

I don't think that is true, but even if it was, isn't that generation (part of) the target demo anyway?

The key word there is "part".  

 

I'm not saying their thought process is right, but if we are trying to follow why they might thing Pamela Isley is not a firm presence in the non-Comicon attending public's minds, then I think it would be because they think the people who saw the Nolan films mainly won't necessarily know much other Bat mythology (I do think for whatever reason they assume the following dots to be connected by non-comic-fans--60s TV Batman to Burton Batman to Nolan Batman)

Edited August 1, 2014 by Kromm

[Tenshinhan]

Anyway, I wish that we learn more about the Wayne family (any other relatives??) and Alfred. Those aspects of the Batman haven't been explored much.

 

It would be cool if they brought in or referenced Uncle Phillip Wayne, Thomas' older bro, but I doubt they would go there.  And of course Alfred has his brother Wilfred and niece Daphne, as well as his estranged daughter Julia.  Honestly though, it might get a little too soapy bringing in crazy relatives to mix things up.

 

I'm sure we'll get some of Alfred's military background thrown in though.

[Agent Dark]

She's possibly only recognizable to BTAS veterans.  Something tells me that FOX/the showrunners are under the impression they're somehow trying to tap into a different market that only knows Batman through theatrical movies.  Ivy DID appear in Batman & Robin, but that's the Bat movie people TRY to forget.

Poison Ivy was featured in Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, both hugely succesful video games. I'd say shes certainly one of the more recognisable Batman villains.

Anyway, I wish that we learn more about the Wayne family (any other relatives??) and Alfred. Those aspects of the Batman haven't been explored much.

The Kanes! I'd love a refererence to Batwoman, especially since Renee Montoya is already on the show.

[Trini]

I hope we see Dr. Leslie Thompkins.

 

And if he wasn't already cast as 'Captain Cold' on The Flash, Wentworth Miller would make a good Dr. Fries/Mr. Freeze.

[Actionmage]

Wentworth Miller would make a good Dr. Fries/Mr. Freeze

It's his Blue Steel; that's what makes him just right! *g*

 

I hope that a Miss Harriet Cooper is a relative from Martha's side of the family and that she stays sporadically. Maybe she and Alfred can have a lil' fling? Plus, she's much savvier than she appears and has a past with Harvey ( because I like Mr. Logue and want him to have some positive attention. *g*)

 

Imo, the Aunt Harriet character was badly conceived, but saved by Madge Blake. Yet, I think she deserves a chance to redeem her besmirched name.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Actionmage

[DollEyes]

  Delurking with my suggestions. Re stunt casting, I've got no problem with it if it's done right. Some former actors from the film/TV franchises could be put to great use. For example, either Michael Keaton or Val Kilmer could be cast as Det. Gordon's former CO from the service or Kevin Conroy could play a mobster from Metropolis (Smallville shout-out). Streets could be named "West," "Ward," "Blake," "Repp" or "Napier" in tribute to the 60s TV show or places could be named after Robert Costanzo, Seth Green and/or the late John Vernon, the late Bob Hastings and/or the late Efrem Zimbalist Jr, the latter three of whom were the voices of John Daggett, Commissioner Gordon and Alfred, respectively, from the 90s' cartoon.  Former Catwomen Adrienne Barbeau and/or Julie Newmar could play characters related to Gordon, Oswald, Fish Mooney, Ivy, Edward or Bullock. Of course Lucius Fox should be involved. My choices to play him would be either Colin Salmon from Arrow or Phil Morris, who played John Jonzz, aka "The Martian Manhunter" on Smallville. It could also save Morris from Love That Girl, that shitty sitcom on TVOne.

 

  Should there be a holiday episode, it should be about how all the characters celebrate or not celebrate. Gordon could make plans to spend Christmas with Barbara, but they fall through at the last minute and he ends up spending it with Bruce and Alfred at Gordon's place because Wayne Manor is too big for anyone to live in alone, especially on special occasions. Fish Mooney could hold a huge Christmas party for "charity," only to either steal the profits herself or Oswald and Falcone steal them from her. Bruce could also choose to spend Christmas at home after all. However, Selina could break in to give Bruce a couple of gifts, which could be two DVDs: the first could be Empire Of the Sun, about a boy forced to fend for himself after losing his parents while the second, Spy Kids is about the children of secret agents who use high-tech gadgets to fight crime. The former film stars a young Christian Bale in his film debut

while the latter  has a cameo by George Clooney at the end. Both films could be nice shout-outs to the film legacy and though Clooney starred in what's widely considered to be the worst Batman film ever made, his career since then has more than made up for it

.

Edited September 28, 2014 by DollEyes

[mtlchick]

Someone during a variation of The Batusi.

[Trini]

Since the producers say no character is off the table, I want to see Baby Doll and Clayface in some form.

[Milz]

It probably won't ever happen, but I'd like to see cameos from Adam West, Burt Ward and Yvonne Craig, just as a shout out to the original, campy '60s series. Maybe Yvonne can be Ma Chilton?

[Maximum Taco]

The Kanes! I'd love a refererence to Batwoman, especially since Renee Montoya is already on the show.

 

Also in the Renee Montoya vein, I'm hoping for an appearence by Vic Sage (aka The Question.) He'd make a great informant for MCU.

 

In the Crispus Allen vein I'd love for some references to the Spectre, although no appearence. He's (just a tad) too over powered for this universe.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[TobinAlbers]

Not that I want this to turn into a tween soap but it might be nice to have an episode where Bruce meets a young Zatanna who brightens up his dreary life for an episode and reminds him that life isn't all bad. For some reason I can also see them having him go to the circus and see Dick's parents as teens perform. Heck they may even teach HIM a thing or two about acrobatics.

 

With Bruno Heller at the helm and with The Mentalist about to close out I would not be surprised if Simon Baker rolls in as The Joker or Harvey Dent in S2 or S3.

 

This didn't happen (and probably won't due to network/production company conflicts) but something that would've been really cool would've been to see the actors that played The Queens and The Merlyns on CW's Arrow at The Waynes' funeral (obviously made to look younger) somewhere in the background to let us know the families and worlds are connected. 

[marketdoctor]

I'd like to see them add not more than one "classic" character a week from here forward.  They had to do the world-building in a hurry, for the up-fronts, and I get where they wanted to include as many Film Poster Shots as they could, but the pilot is over, so now focus more on developing the characters they have, and slowly bring in some more. 

 

Also count me in for some more extended Wayne family.