S02.E02: This Year Will Be Different

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Determined to move forward with her new life alone, Hope's latest hunt leads her on a collision course with the past she's been desperately trying to leave behind. Meanwhile, on their first day back in school, Landon's newfound status as the popular guy leads to tensions with Josie. Elsewhere, as MG contemplates telling Lizzie how he feels about her, the arrival of a mysterious vampire puts a wrench into his plan. Finally, as Alaric gets settled into his new role at Mystic Falls High School, the students of the Salvatore School meet their new headmaster, Professor Vardemus (guest star Alexis Denisof).

Promo:

Original air date: 10/17/19

[UNOSEZ]

Another week and no RAF... Smh... Boy did they build this Sebastian guy in some lab that creates what TV execs think young girls squeal for... He felt like the worst parts of Damon and Elijah put together... And I loved Elijah... I'm confused... Does Lizzie not know she was crushing MG's heart.. I mean some of her words made it seem like she knew how it would land.. But then some didn't... And her demeanor def didn't.... Landon in any form that isn't Lovey-Dovey for Hope.. Is a great Landon.. New human football guy is dreck and I wish him gone... The sister was ok.. Maybe MG can rebound there.. Cuz as much as im rooting for him and Lizzie.. I dunno when that'll happen.... If I don't get RAF next week... We Riot

[ketose]

25 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Another week and no RAF... Smh... Boy did they build this Sebastian guy in some lab that creates what TV execs think young girls squeal for... He felt like the worst parts of Damon and Elijah put together... And I loved Elijah... I'm confused... Does Lizzie not know she was crushing MG's heart.. I mean some of her words made it seem like she knew how it would land.. But then some didn't... And her demeanor def didn't.... Landon in any form that isn't Lovey-Dovey for Hope.. Is a great Landon.. New human football guy is dreck and I wish him gone... The sister was ok.. Maybe MG can rebound there.. Cuz as much as im rooting for him and Lizzie.. I dunno when that'll happen.... If I don't get RAF next week... We Riot

The general consensus is that Julie Plec creates male characters for her personal gratification. This is how the shows end up with a lot of Damon with some Stefan sprinkled in.

[mommalib]

31 minutes ago, ketose said:

The general consensus is that Julie Plec creates male characters for her personal gratification. This is how the shows end up with a lot of Damon with some Stefan sprinkled in.

I don't know who is worst her or Stephanie Savage with their idea of what a young female would fall in love with.

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

Another week and no RAF... Smh... Boy did they build this Sebastian guy in some lab that creates what TV execs think young girls squeal for... He felt like the worst parts of Damon and Elijah put together... And I loved Elijah... I'm confused... Does Lizzie not know she was crushing MG's heart.. I mean some of her words made it seem like she knew how it would land.. But then some didn't... And her demeanor def didn't.... Landon in any form that isn't Lovey-Dovey for Hope.. Is a great Landon.. New human football guy is dreck and I wish him gone... The sister was ok.. Maybe MG can rebound there.. Cuz as much as im rooting for him and Lizzie.. I dunno when that'll happen.... If I don't get RAF next week... We Riot

I hope i'm wrong but I think you can kiss RAF goodbye. Just another black male character pushed into the background.

[UNOSEZ]

4 minutes ago, mommalib said:

I hope i'm wrong but I think you can kiss RAF goodbye. Just another black male character pushed into the background.

Possible... But I'm holding out hope ( no pun intended)  if he remembers Hope.. Then maybe they have plans at least for him... If he doesn't and he's just Another person who will remember later on.. Then yeah he's in the shadowcast... And MG just got friendzoned into a corner and Kaleb.. Is basically just the black best friend For MG.... Meanwhile Lizzie will be spending her time with creepy "hot" vampire guy and Hope will have to deal with football guy.. Who I assume will come on strong and obnoxious.  But really have a good heart and play acoustic guitar or paint.. Or journal some nonsense like that

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, mommalib said:

I hope i'm wrong but I think you can kiss RAF goodbye. Just another black male character pushed into the background.

They still have MG and Kaleb, at least. And they've been giving both boys a lot of material. 

Rafael will be back, I'm sure. He has to be brought back by Hope, after all. 

Overall, I thought the episode was alright. Hope had to tell Alaric just because she needs someone on her side right now. I'm glad she did.

Mystery Dude doesn't interest me. Run, Lizzie, run from the Damon/Elijah wannabe. He literally screams Fan Service and he already is on my shit list. I mean, I'd rather Lizzie/MG because MG's a cool ass dude, while Mystery Dude is going to end up causing a lot of issues. 

Landon/Josie still work for me. If anything, I actually find them super cute and a perfect temp relationship. I like that Headmaster Wesley (didn't catch his actual name) recognized Josie's power. But he's obviously up to something as well. Probably creating a supernatural army to open some vortex or destroy the town or something.

Brother and Sister Mystic Falls High don't really interest me...but Sister interests me more than Brother.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

He felt like the worst parts of Damon and Elijah put together...

More Elijah, IMO. Like he looked like a baby Daniel G. And the actor was strongly channeling Elijah - the accent, the smirky smile... Honestly, his entire interaction with Lizzie looked like a parody of a scene in The Originals. 

45 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Kaleb.. Is basically just the black best friend For MG....

OMG! That's still way better than him being a black best friend to a white character. Plus MG is amazing.



Did we need the romantic music playing during the Alaric and Hope scene?

Edited October 18, 2019 by ursula

[mommalib]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

Possible... But I'm holding out hope ( no pun intended)  if he remembers Hope.. Then maybe they have plans at least for him... If he doesn't and he's just Another person who will remember later on.. Then yeah he's in the shadowcast... And MG just got friendzoned into a corner and Kaleb.. Is basically just the black best friend For MG.... Meanwhile Lizzie will be spending her time with creepy "hot" vampire guy and Hope will have to deal with football guy.. Who I assume will come on strong and obnoxious.  But really have a good heart and play acoustic guitar or paint.. Or journal some nonsense like that

You know how it goes, same old song. Black characters there for "diversity" but the writers have no plans to actually make them an important part of the show. 

[twoods]

Danielle is a fantastic crier. I was crying with her through that heartbreaking scene with Landon, and then with Alaric. I’m glad he finally knows so she has someone on her side, but poor Hope.

Is Sebastian the same actor that plays Harry on the Descendants? They both have the same acting mannerisms, and of course Lizzie goes after the mysterious bad boy instead of poor MG. 

When is Raphael coming back? I miss his bro scenes with Landon.

[GaT]

Has Hope (Danielle Rose Russell) always worn a wig? I never noticed it before, but it looked really obvious to me this episode.

[AnimeMania]

I want to see Hope move in with Alaric and everybody misunderstand their relationship. Alaric's daughters and the students from the high school all thinking the Principal is shacking up with a student. This eventually gets Alaric fired.

[RachelKM]

I really enjoy Hope and Alaric's relationship.  And damn if she didn't have me in tears in her last scene with him. Alaric helped raise her and has been her only parent since she was 16.  Poor kid has lost so much.

I love Landon away from Hope.  I hate that I liked him with Josie, especially their last scene. Josie and her acknowledgement that she needs to move passed being codependent was really nice work.  The scene was really good character depth for them both. Dammit....I know it's going to be taken away from me.

Amen to rando vampire being baby Elijah with a dash of cocky Damon. Bah. Noooooooo.

I hate that MG got hurt. And I actually like his chemistry with Lizzie.  But I'd rather him move on from her since I don't want him pining nor do I want the nice guy gets the girl trope. If Lizzie isn't interested, then she's not interested.

I adore Kaleb and Kaleb and MG's relationship. But I'm gonna need him to have a story that is not just sitting around giving MG dating advice.

Edited October 18, 2019 by RachelKM
Finish my sentence I apparently only concluded in my head.

[paulvdb]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I want to see Hope move in with Alaric and everybody misunderstand their relationship. Alaric's daughters and the students from the high school all thinking the Principal is shacking up with a student. This eventually gets Alaric fired.

If the people of Mystic Falls have a problem with that it would already have come up on The Vampire Diaries when he moved in with Elena and Jeremy after Jenna died.

[ketose]

1 hour ago, paulvdb said:

If the people of Mystic Falls have a problem with that it would already have come up on The Vampire Diaries when he moved in with Elena and Jeremy after Jenna died.

But in that case, everyone knew Elena and Jeremy just lost their only guardian. Now, there's just this random girl nobody knows who's already super close with Alaric.

[UNOSEZ]

Also it just dawned on me that we know to some degree the parentage or family situation of all the main characters except  RAF...  Landon is the malivore miracle... Hope is well Hope.. The saltzman girls are Jo and Alaric.. MG has the preacher Dad and the Triad mom.. Hell we even met some ofKaleb's fam.. All we know is that RAF was in foster care.. So I hope at some point they give us some info.. As this show is called legacies

[ursula]

2 hours ago, ketose said:

just this random girl nobody knows who's already super close with Alaric.

And the weird thing is even if people knew who she was, it'll still be suspicious. Hope has a whole-ass family still alive - she has at least 7 adult guardians - aunts, uncles, older brother - and a wolf pack. How Legacies managed to spin this con that Hope is an orphan with nowhere to go is beyond me. There are a lot of more suitable options to shack up with than her middle-aged widowed headmaster. Who already had an inappropriate relationship with a former female student!

4 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I adore Kaleb and Kaleb and MG's relationship. But I'm gonna need him to have a story that is not 

You didn't finish this so I don't know if him was Kaleb or MG, but assuming the former, I have to say - after thinking about it for a while - some characters are fine remaining in the support role. Kaleb is set up to be a minimal conflict character - vampire-proud, a family that accepts him for who he is, cocksure and confident... He's a foil to MG's slightly sensitive, nerdy personality with his Triad legacy and ripper potential. And, you know what? That's fine. The Black Best Friend trope was offensive because it was a trope that always had a black stereotypical character propping a white fully-realise character, implying that the black character was "less" of a person than the white one. The trope of one character acting as support to another wasn't offensive of itself, it's the context of real-life racial inequality and stereotypes that made it offensive.

Which is my roundabout way of saying that as long as Kaleb is MG's wingman, then I don't see the problem. Considering how TVDverse tends to ruin side characters when it decides to focus on them, I'd rather Kaleb stay as MG's best friend than be "upgraded" to Hope's, for example.

Edited October 18, 2019 by ursula

[UNOSEZ]

27 minutes ago, ursula said:

And the weird thing is even if people knew who she was, it'll still be suspicious. Hope has a whole-ass family still alive - she has at least 7 adult guardians - aunts, uncles, older brother - and a wolf pack. How Legacies managed to spin this con that Hope is an orphan with nowhere to go is beyond me. There are a lot of more suitable options to shack up with than her middle-aged widowed headmaster. Who already had an inappropriate relationship with a former female student!

You didn't finish this so I don't know if him was Kaleb or MG, but assuming the former, I have to say - after thinking about it for a while - some characters are fine remaining in the support role. Kaleb is set up to be a minimal conflict character - vampire-proud, a family that accepts him for who he is, cocksure and confident... He's a foil to MG's slightly sensitive, nerdy personality with his Triad legacy and ripper potential. And, you know what? That's fine. The Black Best Friend trope was offensive because it was a trope that always had a black stereotypical character propping a white fully-realise character, implying that the black character was "less" of a person than the white one. The trope of one character acting as support to another wasn't offensive of itself, it's the context of real-life racial inequality and stereotypes that made it offensive.

Which is my roundabout way of saying that as long as Kaleb is MG's wingman, then I don't see the problem. Considering how TVDverse tends to ruin side characters when it decides to focus on them, I'd rather Kaleb stay as MG's best friend than be "upgraded" to Hope's, for example.

Yeah always bugged me how in the show making hope this super sad and lonely orphan.. They forgot about her aunts Rebekah and Freya... Her uncle Kolkata.. Her uncle-brother Marcel... Maybe even Davina if she isn't dead.. And whatever is left of the crescent wolfpack... Plus a surrogate dad in Alaric and two sister types in Josie and Lizzie who she grew up with... You know who's really alone.. RAF and Landon... Ur point on Kaleb is well put.. And if its between keeping him where he is at MG's side and the track record of the plecverse into side characters u are right.. He's good where he is.. But he's so engaging that you can't help but want a bit more. 

[Chris24601]

To be fair about "lonely orphan" Hope; she lost both her mother and father in the span of a year barely three years ago... both of them sacrificing themselves for her. It makes a sort of sense that she'd try to stay away from people she cares about... Landon gets a pass only because he literally can't die.

She wanted to say away from Alaric too, but events kept interfering.

I kinda take her brazen attitude and desire to throw herself into danger (combined with throwing herself into Malevore last finale) as her having guilt-related issues with that (bordering on a death wish if it potentially has some greater meaning that would justify her parents dying for her).

If the show wanted to (not that I expect them to) they could probably use Hope to pull off a whole deconstruction/reconstruction of the Buffy-esque heroine tropes and just how unhealthy a lot of it is.

They've already made her the new girl at the mundane high school where one of the faculty members is also a demon hunter/mentor and introduced a couple of named mundane students which makes me think, even if they aren't going that route, they're still planning on keeping Alaric and Hope at Mystic Falls High School until at least mid-season.

I can also see the inevitable conflict and return to the Salvatore School where Alaric and Hope have to save the school from Headmaster Wesley and his "you're better than ordinary people, soon we'll reveal ourselves to the world and hostile magic vs. others is only a problem if you get caught" ideas.

Sidebar: I wonder if putting Alaric and Hope at the mundane high school for a while is how they plan to introduce a Damon/Elena spawn into the story (even if only temporarily) since they're unlikely to be actively magical (even full doppelgangers were only really useful as magical ingredients... they weren't witches themselves).

Sidebar 2: Seeing them revisit the annual game between the mundane and magic school in the promos is a nice bit of continuity and a "werewolf-eating monster" in the woods sounds like exactly the sort of reason for Raf to get returned to normal.

If the contracts are anything like last season where everyone but Alaric and Hope skipped a couple of episodes then I'm hopeful that Raf being absent for several episodes at the start means he'll be more consistently present in the back half.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Chris24601

[Bonnie Parker]

26 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

they plan to introduce a Damon/Elena spawn into the story (even if only temporarily) since they're unlikely to be actively magical (even full doppelgangers were only really useful as magical ingredients... they weren't witches themselves).

I've seen a very good theory that when you consider that: 1, Elena and Damon both come from Traveller bloodlines (Damon via Silas and Elena via Katherine's father), 2, they're two Cured vampires with Damon literally having the Cure still flowing in his veins and 3, they're from the doppelganger lines (Silas and Amara), it's almost impossible for their children to just be normal, non-magical, ordinary humans.

Now how that magic manifests itself depends on the plot.

[RachelKM]

5 hours ago, ursula said:

The Black Best Friend trope was offensive because it was a trope that always had a black stereotypical character propping a white fully-realise character, implying that the black character was "less" of a person than the white one.

You were correct that I was thinking about Kaleb, but this wasn't actually my issue.  (And even if I had finished my sentence, I doubt that would have been clear.)  I happen to really like Kaleb and find the actor playing him ridiculously charming.  So I want to see more from him than a sounding board for MG's relationship problems.

My other issue with Kaleb coaching MG on getting Lizzie actually stems from an entirely different trope.  I touched on this a little in my last post.   I'm not thrilled with the continuation of MG's hangdog crush on Lizzie.  It smacks of Dogged Nice Guy.  And while I think MG really is a genuinely nice person and not a Nice Guy™, that trope is still a foundation for Nice Guy Syndrome.  Plus, I'm just not interested in seeing Lizzie inadvertently hurting MG every couple of episodes with her obtuse ignorance (whether willful or sincere) of MG's feelings. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by RachelKM

[ursula]

9 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

I'm not thrilled with the continuation of MG's hangdog crush on Lizzie.  It smacks of Dogged Nice Guy.  And while I think MG really is a genuinely nice person and not a Nice Guy™.  But that trope is still a foundation for Nice Guy Syndrome.  Plus, I'm just not interested in seeing Lizzie inadvertently hurting MG every couple of episodes with her obtuse ignorance (whether willful or sincere) of MG's feelings. 

I think that was resolved/closed with this episode. Hopefully.

Of course, we won't even have this plot point if they had kept Nia on, and developed what was clearly starting between her and MG last season. And Nia in the school would have made her the second non-"trinity"-creature in the school, besides Landon. They need to start moving past the whole "All non-trinity creatures are mindless monsters" and into something more, well, diverse. Even Buffy and Angel went from "all vampires are soul-less demons to be slayed" to Caritas.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, ursula said:

I think that was resolved/closed with this episode. Hopefully.

Of course, we won't even have this plot point if they had kept Nia on, and developed what was clearly starting between her and MG last season. And Nia in the school would have made her the second non-"trinity"-creature in the school, besides Landon. They need to start moving past the whole "All non-trinity creatures are mindless monsters" and into something more, well, diverse. Even Buffy and Angel went from "all vampires are soul-less demons to be slayed" to Caritas.

Maybe hopefully more of that is down the road... I too hope at least for now MG moves off the pursuit and just focuses elsewhere... One because yeah the nice guy trope is ugh.. And two because it'll open him up... I don't for a second believe its the end of those two.. But for now maybe he just keeps his distance... The new human girl could be interesting... But its been stated ahead may have eyes for Hope( who but MG and Kaleb don't?)  But like Josie she could be fluid there

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Awww, Wesley Wyndham-Pryce! I have missed that pompous jackass. He is definitely up to no good and I love it.

Am I misremembering S1 or is Kaleb way more chill this season? I remember him being more aggro last season. Then again, there was a lot more of the vampires vs. werewolves/Salvatore students vs humans stuff last season which gave Kaleb a lot of reasons to be mad. So far we've just seen him hanging out with MG and being a supportive friend so he hasn't had any reason to be mad (heh except when MG was checking out his sister).

Poor Hope. Watching her face, knowing that Landon and Alaric had no idea who she was - so sad.

Sebastian is too Edward Cullen for my taste. He came back just to tell Lizzie to stop looking for him and that she shouldn't let him get too close to her. UGH.

Who's going to take over as alpha male now that both Raf and Jed are gone?

[ursula]

Jed hasn't gone anywhere. I really don't get why people keep confusing/mistaking him for the random dude that died at the end of the episode.

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Am I misremembering S1 or is Kaleb way more chill this season? I remember him being more aggro last season

Kaleb hasn't changed. The only time he was "mad" was when he was falsely accused of being a murderer, and even then he handled it with far more grace than the other students might have. He has always been the cocksure and sarcastic foil to MG's intensity.

The "angry/aggro" characters last season were Hope and Raf, and to a subtle degree, Josie.

Edited October 19, 2019 by ursula

[ketose]

Kaleb was more aggro when he was drinking blood straight from the tap. From the premiere, it looks like he's off human blood, maybe in solidarity with MG.

In the Originals time line, Hope was at the Salvatore School for years because she couldn't get near her father or aunts and uncles to protect her from the Hollow. While she has relatives, she's spent her formative years at the school. I can definitely see how Alaric is the father figure in her life.

[Lady Calypso]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Am I misremembering S1 or is Kaleb way more chill this season? I remember him being more aggro last season. Then again, there was a lot more of the vampires vs. werewolves/Salvatore students vs humans stuff last season which gave Kaleb a lot of reasons to be mad. So far we've just seen him hanging out with MG and being a supportive friend so he hasn't had any reason to be mad (heh except when MG was checking out his sister).

Well Kaleb was more uptight last season when it came to drinking blood straight from the source and how Alaric was running the school in general. But there was an episode where he actually discussed it with Alaric, after he helped save someone (maybe MG??) and they seemed to work things out. Kaleb was the one who said that the vampires needed to be at full power and he was one of the ones very much passionate about the supernatural side. But yeah, he's definitely found a new way to deal with all of that.

I do like Kaleb, but I remember it took me a while last season to really like him, once he got  more substantial role. 

[ursula]

1 hour ago, ketose said:

Kaleb was more aggro when he was drinking blood straight from the tap. 

You mean like Caroline in TVD? That's not being aggro any more than a human being is aggro by eating meat. Kaleb had a different (and justifiable) take on vampire food, not an aggressive one.

People need to watch TVD and TO to know what an "aggro" vampire looks like. 

1 hour ago, ketose said:

I can definitely see how Alaric is the father figure in her life.

How? Not from watching The Originals, that much is clear. He kicked her out of the school when she got caught dealing blood, and when Klaus asked for the twins's help to save Hope's life, Alaric needed to be convinced. This "father/daughter bond" is a Legacies invention.

Also, Hope wasn't away from Freya whom they showed even visiting her in school. She could obviously still meet with Marcel, Davina, Keelin and Vincent and did. And even though there was a physical distance between her and Kol and Rebekah, they managed to keep a relationship where when they reunited they weren't strangers.

Klaus and Elijah were the only ones who were weird about the separation.

*As someone who has actually been to boarding school, let me assure everyone that headmasters don't generally become surrogate father figures. Alaric and Hope's dynamic is weird and frankly creepy.

Edited October 19, 2019 by ursula

[ursula]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well Kaleb was more uptight last season when it came to drinking blood straight from the source

I'm pretty sure Kaleb wasn't asking if he could drink blood straight out of Gertrude The Cow's neck. 😂

Kaleb believed - rightfully - that Alaric was feeding the vamp students animal blood to nerf them.

[Lady Calypso]

9 minutes ago, ursula said:

I'm pretty sure Kaleb wasn't asking if he could drink blood straight out of Gertrude The Cow's neck. 😂

Kaleb believed - rightfully - that Alaric was feeding the vamp students animal blood to nerf them.

LOL, fair! 

Oh, and I didn't disagree with Kaleb's argument at all last season. I may not have agreed with the way he went about it, but I always thought that Alaric was making stupid ass choices as Headmaster. 

[ketose]

34 minutes ago, ursula said:

You mean like Caroline in TVD? That's not being aggro any more than a human being is aggro by eating meat. Kaleb had a different (and justifiable) take on vampire food, not an aggressive one.

People need to watch TVD and TO to know what an "aggro" vampire looks like. 

How? Not from watching The Originals, that much is clear. He kicked her out of the school when she got caught dealing blood, and when Klaus asked for the twins's help to save Hope's life, Alaric needed to be convinced. This "father/daughter bond" is a Legacies invention.

Also, Hope wasn't away from Freya whom they showed even visiting her in school. She could obviously still meet with Marcel, Davina, Keelin and Vincent and did. And even though there was a physical distance between her and Kol and Rebekah, they managed to keep a relationship where when they reunited they weren't strangers.

Klaus and Elijah were the only ones who were weird about the separation.

*As someone who has actually been to boarding school, let me assure everyone that headmasters don't generally become surrogate father figures. Alaric and Hope's dynamic is weird and frankly creepy.

Caroline was also more aggro when she was drinking from people. She killed one person and compelled a girl because she was talking to Caroline's boyfriend.

Also, Hope was kicked out for turning a werewolf into a hybrid, which was a serious violation and led to the boy's death. From what I can tell, Hope's blood relatives didn't discipline her at all, so not very parental.

28 minutes ago, ursula said:

I'm pretty sure Kaleb wasn't asking if he could drink blood straight out of Gertrude The Cow's neck. 😂

Kaleb believed - rightfully - that Alaric was feeding the vamp students animal blood to nerf them.

Let's not forget we met Kaleb when he was assaulting girls and compelling them to forget. He was an asshole for a number of episodes.

[ursula]

21 minutes ago, ketose said:

Let's not forget we met Kaleb when he was assaulting girls and compelling them to forget.

Kaleb wasn’t assaulting girls wtf? 

Have we forgotten how Damon raped and enslaved Caroline? How The Originals straight up murdered their food? Kaleb fed from people, compelled with pleasant reasons to forget and moved on. He never sexually assaulted or emotionally tormented any body. Why is the standard for Kaleb now different? I mean I can guess why, but I’ll give the benefit of the doubt. 
 

22 minutes ago, ketose said:

Caroline was also more aggro when she was drinking from people. She killed one person and compelled a girl because she was talking to Caroline's boyfriend.

She lost control and killed someone in season 2 when she was a newbie vamp. The whole point of Caroline is that she became a supreme well adjusted vampire. Not a blood-coholic Ripper like Stefan or an abuser like Damon.

If compelling people is being “aggro” then Alaric just asked MG to be aggro to Maya. 

[ursula]

46 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I may not have agreed with the way he went about it, but I always thought that Alaric was making stupid ass choices as Headmaster. 

Yeah, the show ends up validating this.

I have to say I was impressed with a lot of the story last season. I thought the show was playing up the Scary Black Man trope with Kaleb and judging him with standards that never applied to the older, whiter vamps from TVD and TO but the show turned it around. And we see the push - the Council asking for offensive magic for witches, human blood for vampires - early enough in the season that by the end, the Vote against Alaric is justified.

Now I just hope they don’t go to the other extreme with Vardemus and retroactively justify Alaric’s stringency. There is a balance between - and the football game with MFH is a great metaphor - throwing the game to appear non-threatening and using superpowers to trump the opposition. Both extremes are wrong and ultimately impractical.

[ybrik]

Watching this episode I didn't notice Hope wearing a wig because I was really distracted by how much she reminded me of Hayley. It wasn't just her look but also how she was talking at some points. 

The new head master is definitely going to be a problem. And he will be the opposite extreme of Alaric last season. I didn't really have too much of a problem with Alaric's methods just that there needed to be progression to it. Yes get new vamps on animal bloods to help them learn their powers but eventually they needed to advance to human blood bags or in witches case once they reached a certain age have them learn more advance/offensive magic. 

Yeah not feeling the new vamp. Of course I doubt I am the target audience of him being cast. I have already seen reactions online just loving this guy. Just don't see it. Of course I also never really saw anything with Landon/Hope. 

Actually most of the relationship dramas this season don't really intrigue me. However, kind of intrigued with the new head master trying to 'Palpatine' Josie. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by ybrik

[Terrafamilia]

When the pompous new headmaster came strolling in I wanted to be there just to make a snarky aside within earshot, "What, no spats?"

[ketose]

10 hours ago, ursula said:

Kaleb wasn’t assaulting girls wtf? 

Have we forgotten how Damon raped and enslaved Caroline? How The Originals straight up murdered their food? Kaleb fed from people, compelled with pleasant reasons to forget and moved on. He never sexually assaulted or emotionally tormented any body. Why is the standard for Kaleb now different? I mean I can guess why, but I’ll give the benefit of the doubt. 
 

She lost control and killed someone in season 2 when she was a newbie vamp. The whole point of Caroline is that she became a supreme well adjusted vampire. Not a blood-coholic Ripper like Stefan or an abuser like Damon.

If compelling people is being “aggro” then Alaric just asked MG to be aggro to Maya. 

First of all, I think Damon was a monster, which is why he was the villain of Season 1. I never went in for that woobie redemption crap and I think he should have been killed ASAP. Even Stefan was too unstable to be allowed to go bad (over and over).

As for Kaleb, when we first saw his blood drinking, he offered to let MG some of the girl he had compelled, like she was a bottle of beer. Plus, "forget this happened" and "Date's over. It's not me, it's you" aren't pleasant reasons to forget.

[ursula]

3 hours ago, ketose said:

As for Kaleb, when we first saw his blood drinking, he offered to let MG some of the girl he had compelled, like she was a bottle of beer. Plus, "forget this happened" and "Date's over. It's not me, it's you" aren't pleasant reasons to forget.

The “it’s not me, it’s you” was immature, not evil. We’ve seen him use compulsion to help people so we know it’s not in his nature to be malicious for the sake of it. 

Kaleb’s offer to MG was the vampire equivalent of offering a steak. Horrifying for the cow (RIP Gertrude) but not evidence of aggression, just the food chain. And as a bonus, humans can survive being fed upon which already makes vamps like Kaleb and Caroline who choose not to drain their victims far more humane predators than the entirety of humanity.

If we're judging Kaleb by humanity’s standards, then every supernatural who’ve compelled or spelled humans for their convenience is aggressive/evil. And this includes Alaric who’s not above using his students at his convenience. 

 
 

3 hours ago, ketose said:

I think Damon was a monster, which is why he was the villain of Season 1. I never went in for that woobie redemption crap and I think he should have been killed ASAP. Even Stefan was too unstable to be allowed to go bad (over and over).

100% agree. Which was my point that there’s a happy balance between being a rapist and abuser like Damon and a blood-coholic like Stefan who was on an animal diet because he figuratively couldn’t handle his liquor. Just feeding from humans alone isn’t a sign of an aggressive vampire.

Edited October 20, 2019 by ursula

[ketose]

I think that Kaleb was the recipient of a character arc. He started out doing wrong things by Salvatore School standards (but morally neutral by TVD standards). However, he also learned that feeding on local high school girls and convincing potential rippers like MG were bad ideas and there was a reason for Alaric to forbid them. The good news is that Kaleb learned he went too far and Alaric realized that his students needed to learn some self-defense. I think Kaleb is a smarter and wiser character than he was a year ago. I just think he was kind of an asshole back then.

The whole point of the school is that the kids can't use 100% of their abilities and exist among other people. Otherwise, they could just be taught by the coven / pack / sires. I consider the story is of a school that has been open for a decade with few issues and that Alaric has been a good headmaster until the Malivore stuff blew things up.

[Bonnie Parker]

Is there a reason why the twins can't just siphon the wolf transformation off Raf? Or is this another example of the show downplaying the twins's powers to make Hope more special? 

Re: Kaleb. I am in between @ursula and @ketose. I think the show played up the Scary Black man trope to make us think he was evil, even though he wasn't acting evil by vampire standards. At the same time, I'm on ketose side that he got a character arc... or more technically a character revamp. The guy that said that supernaturals are better than humans doesn't track with the guy that has a loving and accepting human family that he gets along so well with. Not saying that it's impossible for Kaleb to look down on humans i general while loving his human family... but I don't think he is supposed to be that multi-layered. 

[UNOSEZ]

3 minutes ago, Bonnie Parker said:

Is there a reason why the twins can't just siphon the wolf transformation off Raf? Or is this another example of the show downplaying the twins's powers to make Hope more special? 

Re: Kaleb. I am in between @ursula and @ketose. I think the show played up the Scary Black man trope to make us think he was evil, even though he wasn't acting evil by vampire standards. At the same time, I'm on ketose side that he got a character arc... or more technically a character revamp. The guy that said that supernaturals are better than humans doesn't track with the guy that has a loving and accepting human family that he gets along so well with. Not saying that it's impossible for Kaleb to look down on humans i general while loving his human family... but I don't think he is supposed to be that multi-layered. 

Possibly to showcase Hope being " The special" but also.. And this is me actively hoping.. That once its done RAF will actually remember who she is.. So doing it thus way for dramatic purposes if her doing the spell.. Then the emotion of anyone knowing who she was... 

As for Kaleb... I can't speak for anyone else  but for me its hard to give the benefit of doubt to Plec in particular and Genre TV in general because history has shown how horribly they've depicted black men and even worse young black men.. So the idealist in me says.. Yeah .. Reasonable enough ( for the CW)  character progression,  no shade meant... The cynic who's spent 20 + years watching TV and living in America says... We had some writers/ showrunners playing around with some gross and tired tropes who tried to frame the behavior in a way that wasn't consistent with how much worse behavior was framed on the other shows in universe.. And then either somebody had a proverbial " come to Jesus moment" or somebody with a higher melanin count metaphorically checked some chins

[ketose]

3 hours ago, Bonnie Parker said:

Is there a reason why the twins can't just siphon the wolf transformation off Raf? Or is this another example of the show downplaying the twins's powers to make Hope more special?  

Everyone's powers are plot-specific. When the Travelers created an anti-magic zone around Mystic Falls, the werewolves had their curse reset. Presumably, that would revert Raf to human. However, I think his mind is wolfed-up too, so no the best solution.

[ursula]

6 hours ago, ketose said:

However, I think his mind is wolfed-up too, so no the best solution.

The ring made him retain human consciousness and memory in the wolf state. That’s why he’s not “wild”.

[RachelKM]

I wasn't going to continue the Kaleb discussion in the episode thread, but it looks as though we don't have character threads, so here it goes:

My take on Kaleb and his arc is also between URSULA and KETOSE's positions, but for a different reason.

I think they introduced Kaleb without much of a plan other than he was relatively new vamp and a contrast to MG.  Many of us, including myself, reacted badly to his offering of the girl to MG and referring to their time together as a date as a sort of PDSD (Post Damon Stress Disorder).  It wasn't so much that it was soooooo bad, but it had creepy overtones of a "romantic" compulsion and a callous disregard for a human.  My knee-jerk reaction was to be squicked the fuck out. And, let's be honest, there was no reason to think this show wasn't going with the scary black man trope.

I was surprised when just two or three episodes later, he was given a touch of depth.  And by the time the counsel was voted on, I realized he was actually a pretty reasonable (and charming) dude.  And, largely on the charisma of the actor (because he hasn't been given that much to do even as a foil for MG), he slowly became one of my favorite characters on this show.   

Edited October 22, 2019 by RachelKM

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God, who is this Edward Cullen talking mother fucker, and what shit is he up to? I would like to think that Lizzie would see past his ridiculous ass and his stupid ren fair shirt, but is IS a teenage girl, and that kind of mysterious sexiness can be kinda sexy I guess when your that age. I mean, when he didnt answer what he is, I knew he was trouble. Girl you in danger! 

Anyway, pretty good episode, I am glad that Alaric figured out pretty quickly what is going on with Hope, even if he cant remember her, and their last scene was quite heartbreaking. And I really did feel her and Landon in their last scene, possibly more than I normally did when they are an actual couple! I mean, with Hopes issues about people dying all around her, having a boyfriend who can literally resurrect after death is pretty perfect. 

That being said, Josie and Landon are cute together, I am glad that Josie is acknowledging that she tends to get codependent with the people in her life, and Landon admitting that he likes the attention and acceptance of being the hero of the hour, even if he has no clue what actually went down. I know it wont be for long, but I like the easy, mostly non angsty chemistry they have. Engaging a bit in that dark side though, huh Josie? Its nice that the new headmaster sees her potential, but he seems like he could take her down a darker path.

Fun seeing Alexis Denisof here, clearly having a blast playing this probably sketchy new Headmaster who seems to be something of a supernatural supremacist who wants to teach the kids how to use their powers to do more offensive/dangerous things to people. I mean, there has to be middle ground between Alaric refusing to let them really use their powers to their full potential, especially for self defense, and this guy. 

Poor MG, it sucks seeing him hurt, but he and Kaleb are so much fun together. "Are you asking her out, or trying to sell her an investment?" I hope they get more to do soon though, especially with the latest bad guy coming. 

Hope needs to start looking for Rafael ASAP!

[beeemkcl]

* There is no Lizzie/MG and Lizzie doesn’t need to feel bad that she’s not ‘into’ MG.

This new guy for Lizzie looks like a young Richard Madden.

* I hope Hope eventually becomes more powerful. Maybe when she becomes a vampire and thus a true Trybrid.

* Lizzie is one of my favorite characters. I hope she gets more to do than be a “hot chick who has mental problems”. I don’t like her being a “prize” for MG.

RESPONSES TO THE THREAD:

* Are there prominent Asian or Hispanic or Latino characters in Legacies? Legacies has at least 2 major Black characters. Raf was mostly there as Landon’s BFF and competition for Landon regarding Hope’s affections. And I don’t care if Hope/Raf never happens.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

14 minutes ago, beeemkcl said:

Are there prominent Asian or Hispanic or Latino characters in Legacies? Legacies has at least 2 major Black characters.

It depends on how you define prominent. Karen David who played Emma is half Indian and a quarter Chinese. She was in eight episodes in S1 (out of sixteen total episodes) so I don't know if that counts as prominent. Lulu Antariksa who played Penelope is half Indonesian and half German. She was in seven episodes last season. Ben Levin who plays Jed is part Asian and he appeared in five episodes last season (and one episode so far this season).

Off the top of my head, I don't recall any characters (prominent or otherwise) on the show who are Latinx.

[Lady Calypso]

6 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Off the top of my head, I don't recall any characters (prominent or otherwise) on the show who are Latinx.

Well, there IS Pedro, the little kid that's been a recurring character but I also do not know his ethnicity so I could be totally wrong. Obviously, trying to look up any information on the kid actor is pretty non-existent. 

Also, Aria Shahghasemi, who plays Landon, is Iranian. 

[UNOSEZ]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, there IS Pedro, the little kid that's been a recurring character but I also do not know his ethnicity so I could be totally wrong. Obviously, trying to look up any information on the kid actor is pretty non-existent. 

Also, Aria Shahghasemi, who plays Landon, is Iranian. 

I always wondered what type of name that was... Tho they basically portray Landon as white don't they.. I mean we've only seen his mom and she was what a euro-israeli?  Dunno if they'll ever cast malivore... But they did cast his brother on his daddy's side and he was white as well

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I always wondered what type of name that was... Tho they basically portray Landon as white don't they.. I mean we've only seen his mom and she was what a euro-israeli?  Dunno if they'll ever cast malivore... But they did cast his brother on his daddy's side and he was white as well

To be fair, the moment you have a Golem for a father, you kind of throw race out the window. Seriously, that whole parentage stuff is confusing enough. But Landon, canonically, IS half Israeli, at least (and half...Golem? Half Blob?). This show HAS done well in casting diverse actors, so it's hard to really criticize the show on that front. If they had cast a white actress to portray Landon's mother, then they'd be portraying Landon as white. But they didn't, so he's definitely a POC. 

As for the brother, Clarke, he was created by Malivore so, technically, not even a real person. It wasn't a Landon situation, where he was literally born from his mother's womb. Clarke just kind of came to be through magic. 

1 hour ago, beeemkcl said:

* Lizzie is one of my favorite characters. I hope she gets more to do than be a “hot chick who has mental problems”. I don’t like her being a “prize” for MG.

Lizzie is great, which is why I'm actually disappointed in what appears to be her arc this season. Not even just with MG, but with Brooding Twilight Guy (I know he's not from Twilight but he could essentially be a less PG Edward Cullen). It seems like she's going to be duped into whatever Twilight has planned. Lizzie seems to be stuck in romantic arcs this season and I'll admit that I'm not going to be a fan. Hopefully the romance stuff isn't the only thing Lizzie gets to do. 

I guess I get nervous with second seasons because the Sophomore Slump is a real thing and second seasons don't typically do as well as the first seasons, especially when the first seasons are very strong. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Another reason I loathe Edward Cullen 2.0 is that Lizzie introduced herself, she said, “I’m Lizzie,” and he replied, “Nice to meet you, Elizabeth.” It’s rude, dickish, controlling behavior to immediately call someone by a name other than the one they give you. 

🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽

[ElectricBoogaloo]

P

16 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

This show HAS done well in casting diverse actors, so it's hard to really criticize the show on that front.

I'm totally fine still criticizing them for it. Yes, it's great that they cast Black actors for MG, Kaleb, Rafael, and Dorian but now that we're in S2, Raf is still in wolf form and we've barely seen Dorian so we're left with MG and Kaleb. Meanwhile, Emma and Penelope are gone which leaves us with Jed as the only Asian character left, and he's a pretty minor one at that.

The show could still stand to be more diverse. They could use some Black female characters who aren't one episode guest stars (like Kaleb's sister) and obviously there's a dearth of Asian and Latinx characters. Any progress is still progress, but that doesn't mean the show gets a pass for the duration of its run. They continue to make casting choices for every episode so they can still do better.