apinknightmare

Or, like Oliver, he has about two brain cells to rub together, so this all makes sense to him.

Please, please, please let Oliver's dumb ass lead Darhk or one of his goons straight to his son. Please. I'm begging for it.

I think so? Didn't she have life-sized bug men kidnap her from PT, and Barry wound up saving her?

Yeah, I can't think of a "very small thing" relationship-wise that would have a big emotional impact. Marriage, kids, whatever, that's all really big stuff IMO. So, maybe it's something else? Although knowing the kid comes into play soon makes it seem like whatever this is would have to do with that. So...not sure.

Well, since Laurel's going to make sure he gets locked up in the super secure Iron Heights which no one ever ever escapes from, then yes. Probably. Since SA basically said Oliver and Felicity break up at the end of 4x15, and a Vancouver pap said they filmed some kind of wedding scene in 4x16 - a hallucination, a dream, a whatever - then I think Felicity probably calls off the wedding before it happens.

Seriously. Samantha not wanting William involved in Oliver's shitty life is the ONE part of that whole mess of a storyline that made any kind of sense.

If the kid is kidnapped in 4x15 simply for being Oliver's kid, and then Samantha and Oliver decide afterward that Oliver needs to spend MORE time with the kid, I will laugh forever. Because for real, what morons. And shitty, horrendous parents.

Ha, that could be it, too. Then she finds out he has a kid stashed away in seekrit.

That's probably why he starts feeling guilty about not telling her about his son. They decide not to have any, but OOPS HE ALREADY HAS ONE!!11! I can't think of another decision that would make 14 and 15 emotional knowing what's coming in those eps, but maybe it is something else that's small?

Maybe they make a decision about kids? Trying to figure out how to make the baby mama drama go FULL IMPACT.

I think Barrowman left a little scenery unchewed there.

Thea's wishes were that he not make a deal with Darhk to save her. Oliver showed up to the meeting, and yes, he left because of the Calculator, but he didn't reschedule that meeting, did he? He told Malcolm he was going to respect her wishes about not making a deal with Darhk. Seems like he decided to do what Thea asked to me. Thea's choice wasn't to die, though. She doesn't want to kill people to sate her bloodlust, and she didn't want Oliver to make a deal with Damien. As far as she knew, those were her only two options other than dying, so dying was kind of a default due to lack of any other option. She doesn't even know about this Lotus, and she isn't able to comment on it, so I'm not judging Oliver for that.

He actually did respect Thea's choice though - pretty sure that was the whole point of this storyline. Thea told him she didn't want Oliver owing Darhk, and didn't want him making that kind of deal for her, so he walked away from their meeting, and told Malcolm he was going to respect her wishes.

I think that this is absolutely true. But in this particular instance, I don't blame him for jumping on it, since Thea actually told him first-hand that whatever happened when Darhk tried to suck the life out of her actually made her feel better. Seems natural to me that he'd go right to a known cure. I guess because Oliver knowing that trying to kill Thea sucked the life out of Darhk is information that he can't have before episode 23!

I guess I'm just a little confused as to how Oliver somehow becomes a less terrible person by putting his own values above possibly saving his sister's life from the thing that's killing her, but it's definitely an interesting conversation.

Then don't use the word "help." That was my wording - they used "get rid of the bloodlust" and "make what he did to her permanent." And Oliver didn't think that Darhk would willingly "get rid of the bloodlust" or "make what he did to her permanent," which is why he wanted to see if there was something he could've offered Darhk in return. You think Oliver being kind of desperate to make a deal to stop his sister from dying is terrible? Cool, I respect that. Personally, I think it would be kind of terrible if he knew there was a way to possibly get rid of the thing that was killing her and didn't at least want to make a deal for it.

How exactly is he supposed to protect her at this point? Thea is willingly keeping this man in her life. She thinks of him as her father - and yeah, Oliver has done some dumb shit to keep her from acting out against him, and yet, there he is in the middle of Thea and Laurel's apartment, with Thea calling him Dad. They have a messed up relationship, but it's one Thea seems to want to continue for whatever reason. And yes, Malcolm is ultimately responsible for Thea being targeted by Ra's, but Oliver's the one who put her in the Pit (against Malcolm's wishes, when he was not being an evil dickhead for once). So I get why he feels some need to fix this particular thing. Why wouldn't he ask him for help when he is literally the only person who seems to be able to help her? She can either kill someone (which she doesn't want to do), get help from Damien (which she didn't want and Oliver ultimately respected), or die. He went for the only option he could help with, and then deferred to her wishes. I know what you meant. I'm not claiming that Darhk tried to help her because he's a super great guy, but by trying to suck the life out of her, he got rid of her Pit problem - which is what *I* meant.

I don't think it's heinous at all. It's not like he's trying to make a deal with Darhk for some sweet real estate or something. Thea is literally dying from something that Darhk helped get rid of for a time, and he wants to do what he can to keep her alive. As far as they know there isn't anyone else who can help her.

Her reaction to whatever Donna lied about or whatever story she told about Felicity's could be an indicator of how she'd react to Oliver's secret kid. It's dishonesty just the same, and Felicity could express her disappointment about it in a way that could make Oliver start to piece together how she'd react when she finds out about the kid.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. ETA: Or me three, since @morrigan2572 and I posted at the same time!

I will laugh forever if Donna found out that dear 'ol Dad had a secret kid or family stashed away somewhere.

eh, never mind.

Yes. And she seemed to be referring to someone who lives in her building, so I don't think they're connected at all.

This whole Pit thing is a mess because they didn't think the two storylines through, they just needed the LP to bring Sara back. But I think what they're going for is that the desire to kill will always be there for both of them, but Thea actually has to kill, otherwise the Pit effects will kill her - which is something that Sara doesn't have to deal with because Constantine and plot.

*Nobody* cares about the flashbacks!