apinknightmare

The AO3 chapter count indicates there's a total of 14.

I think the writers got so invested in making the audience think Susan was shady and wonder what was going on with her that they forgot they actually needed to write a pivot from shady reporter to woman in relationship with Oliver. In this last episode, I'm pretty sure we were supposed to believe that Susan was upset that Oliver was lying to her as his girlfriend because she has feelings for him, and not because she was upset about her story. And because this show doesn't do subtle, they had to spell out what Thea's actions meant for Susan, and what the result of her being fired was ("now I can't publish what I know, because no one will believe me!"), but wound up making it seem like the story was the only reason she was with him, since she had to bring it up as exposition for the audience. I actually didn't think he stuck up for her against Thea (thanks to the speech to Thea at the end about how he was mainly worried about the lengths she was willing to go to in order to keep Susan quiet - without that, yikes!). So...I think we're supposed to believe that Oliver knows that Susan cares about him and that's why he believes she isn't going to rat him out. But, the only reason I think that is because of Wendy's interview where she mentioned that they were both going to have "genuine feelings." Like you wrote, it's one of those things where they need things to happen for plot, but because they ultimately don't mean anything outside of that, they can't be bothered to spend any time on it whatsoever. But really, the thing with Susan could've been fixed with just an addition of a line of dialogue, and a rearrangement of events (like, she should've pushed him about what she knew when she was confronting him about being the Green Arrow, and let him know that she cared about him and was angry that he's lying to her, etc.). It's too bad they're so...lazy and incompetent, I guess.

I really don't get the hype for it.

I had 8 friends who watched - 4 called it quits in the 3rd season, the other 4 dropped out last season post-lie. I'm the lone survivor, haha.

I really wish I could do this. Really really. I want to forget about this plagiarism storyline because it is so stupid and actually impossible, because the only way Susan gets fired for this is if Channel 52 took some rando's word for it and didn't do even a cursory check of the "plagiarized" material they found since Felicity said she only planted stuff on Susan's computer and didn't put the faked articles out on the web. So (unless this was a setup and she's lying, which I'm guessing she's not), Channel 52 fired her based on evidence that they didn't even bother to check, lol.

IMO they write relationships just fine. It's when they try to write relationship-based conflict that the whole thing tumbles into the toilet. Thankfully, I think that if/when they put Olicity back together, we probably won't be getting any more of that. Little disagreements - like Felicity chastising Oliver for wanting to infiltrate HIVE? Yes. BMD and running away together for the summer angst? (Please god) No.

Ah, I read that as "she thinks she's with HT even if she doesn't know it's Oliver" for some reason, haha.

Wasn't Marc talking about Oliver going back to Lian Yu in the flashbacks, not present time?

I think maybe the question is coming from the fact that it was kind of unclear whether she knew she gave her number to Oliver or Human Target since she knew who Human Target was and that he was masquerading as Oliver on the day she gave him said number. But...the show made it pretty clear that even if she realized that she gave her number to Human Target that she thinks she's with Oliver Queen now.

If she gets her job back, I'd say that she doesn't publish or broadcast her story yet because it's incomplete. She can't prove Oliver's the Green Arrow - she can accuse him of it, but been there, done that. Without proof, it's just gossip. Add to that - the story just got even more interesting because the guy she thinks is Green Arrow is getting impeached for covering up a murder that he committed.

I don't think he'd be doing it to save Susan. I mean, he just basically outed himself to the cops, so...he really doesn't seem to care at all anymore at this point. And if he's at a point where she knows and she's going to expose him anyway, why not do it on his terms? Plus, at this point there could be something that pushes him to do it that we don't know about yet. There's a reason why those scenes with Pike happened though - and that's to get Green Arrow off the hook for Billy's murder. Could just be to get them to stop coming after him and Oliver never winds up outing himself. Maybe Susan does fall victim to his magic penis (although why she would at this point - after they had that falling out over it and he's aware of what she's doing - I have no idea). I think it was likely to set up Oliver revealing he's Green Arrow - whether he reveals it to her or just has a press conference on his own.

I do think there's room for discussion on how the secret kid situation was dealt with in the relationship, because I think someone believing that it's a deal-breaker vs. something O/F could work through without a breakup vs. any other variation of dealing with the problem are based on personal experiences and personalities and other individual type things that would be different from person to person. The idea that the lying/secret keeping wouldn't or shouldn't be an issue at all is super confusing to me though.

Maybe that's why they had her mention that she was working on another story when she found information about him. Seemed like bullshit at the time, but maybe she was working on something to do with Russia/ the Bratva / whatever. Anatoly did ask Oliver to take care of something for him in Star City while he was in Russia in 5x12... I'm just not sure if that could tie back to Susan since that would indicate that Anatoly knew someone was onto them, and Oliver went back to Star City and slept with her, giving her access to the information she'd need to tie Oliver to the Bratva (the tattoo). And while maybe I could believe there was some kind of a ruse going on for a long con, that would make Oliver trusting her not to report out on him being the Green Arrow all the more stupid since clearly he'd have reason to be suspicious of her if Anatoly was. Unless the Bratva have something on her and Oliver's convinced that will keep her quiet. But...if they did then he would've revealed that when Susan came to his office. Or it's Arrow and it makes no sense because plot. Why do I keep doing this to myself.

Not really. Oliver doesn't need to keep his identity a secret for the rest of the series - I'm assuming the reason the groundwork is being laid now is because he either reveals it in the season finale or the episodes leading up to it. At this point it could go a few ways. There's a built-in excuse for Susan not publishing what she has right now: she was fired from her job for plagiarism and all of her info was discredited. Assuming Thea does somehow right this wrong and Susan gets her job back, she still doesn't have any proof that Oliver is the Green Arrow. She either needs a few more episodes to get that evidence, or she'll need him working with her in order to get it. If Thea doesn't manage to right this wrong, then Susan still has no credibility, and she'll need Oliver's cooperation to give her claim legitimacy, which it seems he'd be totally willing to do since he thinks Thea wronged Susan, and he doesn't seem to give much of a shit about keeping his identity secret anymore anyway. And this is Arrow, so if they need to stretch it out until they're ready to deal with it they will, regardless of whether it makes sense - like Felicity not trying to find information to exonerate Diggle until episode 11 because plot.

I think the only way to not have her be a shitty reporter (in the dumping the story for penis way, and not dating her subject for a story way), and for Oliver to not look like a complete and utter moron regarding her is to agree to an exclusive to out himself. That way she actually doesn't drop her story because feelings, and he's a willing participant at that point in what she's writing (even though it didn't start out that way). I think the show started laying the case for Oliver outing himself this past ep since he managed to convince the chief of the ACU that he shouldn't be arrested for Billy's murder because he felt super bad about it. So...since that seems to be the only murder that counts at this point - all the others were big time baddies or goons, and the ones before were erased by the Arrow going to jail and then dying there, he won't have anything to fear from law enforcement, so he'll be in the clear. I'm guessing the show will ignore the accomplices/accessories part of the whole thing regarding the team.

I mean, ultimately I know Oliver's going to be in the right, so...she's gonna be "trustworthy." And he had plausible deniability with the hack since he really didn't know anything about it, so...maybe I could see Susan buying it for whatever reason. But now Susan pretty much has confirmation that he's Green Arrow and didn't trust her enough to tell her, and she knows that he was involved in a cover up (even though he did tell Chase to stop - he agreed to it at first) for a murder that he committed...so Susan taking Oliver back at this point would seem like she's doing it (again) to get at a story, and would make Oliver look even more stupid then he already does? The thought of them getting back together now is so laughable to me because it makes no sense, but this is Arrow so making sense is not a requirement. I hope they're done romantically though, and she continues to slither around the city because she refuses to drop the story, just generally being a thorn in Oliver's side out to expose the truth.

Yeah, I expect Thea's going to try to right that wrong.

Yeah, probably not. Ugh.

I mean, this is Arrow so the logic doesn't have to wash, but...IIRC correctly, Felicity said that she just planted stuff on Susan's computer without knowing what it was. To doctor up plagiarism claims, Thea obviously had to make up articles from non-existent people (since there's no way she could've worked up real plagiarism from real investigative reporters - unless somehow she found someone who had been plagiarizing Susie, since that's the only way for a real printed article or broadcast report to match up enough for her to be fired). So...if Felicity just placed these docs on her computer, did the news station not try to verify it at all? Because like...that stuff would have to be online or somewhere in print to stand up? And it wouldn't have been unless Felicity put it somewhere to be verified? As always, it's tough to know if this is a legit thing to be thinking about, or if it's a convenient plot contrivance to make things work. Actually it's not tough to know, because there's never more there, haha.

I saw someone mention on Twitter that maybe Susie made her laptop easily hackable as a setup for Oliver & Co. I like this idea. Maybe she's not so dumb? Maybe she figured Oliver might not be willing to admit that he was the Green Arrow, and suspected that if she confronted him about it he'd have his computer whiz ex-fiancee take care of things for him. So she set a little bit of a trap to get her suspicions confirmed that way? Maybe she went to her bosses and told them that she thought something might be coming down the line and that she was getting ready to break something big, so disregard any attempts to discredit her? And the reason it seems like she's reporting next episode is because she is - she lied about being fired. That would make her a snake, and a good reporter, and still not necessarily an awful person. And either she's in cahoots with someone wrt the leaked cover-up, or she leaked it herself as part of her story, or things just worked out really great for her - since nothing would make that story juicer than Oliver as mayor covering up a crime that he committed as Green Arrow. She could ultimately decide not to publish - so Oliver doesn't look like a TOTAL moron for trusting her. Or maybe he agrees to participate in the story, ultimately outing himself at the end of the season. Hmmm....

Yeah, I think she definitely asks for help with the impeachment stuff. Otherwise I just don't see how he would get out of it? I'm wondering if Helix gets some dirt on Chase or something - and that's why (assuming it's him) Vigilante goes after Oliver. Not that it should be that hard since it seems like he was directly involved in the cover up? Or maybe he has a hidden history of doing shady stuff and Felicity brings it to light making it look like Oliver was duped by a shady DA. I mean...surely by now the citizens know he's dumb enough. But if Chase had anything to do with a cover up and was Vigilante, I'm not sure why he'd be able to suit up after he got exposed like that, so...maybe Felicity exhonorates Oliver in some other way. Her getting him out of impeachment however she does it would give Susan reason enough to keep snooping around the sitch - since Oliver conveniently gets out of something...again.

Of course he can change, but what exactly is your point? Thea didn't kill anyone keep said secret? Oliver has - many times in the past (and as recently as a few months ago). So him asking her "who does that?" with regard to her getting Susan fired to keep his secret is hypocritical because, uh...he did much worse! It doesn't matter if he still would - HE DID.

I wonder if Thea and Felicity undid their doing in this past ep to get her her job back or if she's doing some shady freelance?

He didn't write that - he wrote that they were "really good," which is damning with faint praise coming from him. His go to's are "excellent, superb, the best," so I suspect he was aware these were stinkers but was probably trying to drum up some Feb. sweeps excitement.

She's dumb enough to have 1234 as a password, but...hopefully smart enough to put together that Oliver's ex-fiancée is a tech wiz and the only one who could've gotten to her, so hopefully she at least does something with that.