WearyTraveler

The AWOIAF that I was referring to and linked to in my post was "A Wiki of Ice and Fire", which is the place where all the information from all available canon is recorded. It was created and it's currently maintained by a couple of people who were so good at documenting canon from the books and keeping a record of it, that Martin himself invited one of them to write "A World of Ice and Fire" with him. They are obsessed to the point of worship with Martin's work, sometimes taking it to such extremes as to actually insult and engage in (in)famous internet feuds with anyone who dares to even slightly criticize Martin or his work. Martin himself has said in interviews that he has them read his work to fact check it against existing canon. The article I quoted in my post has 39 sources; 30 of them are the published novels from A Song of Ice and Fire. The information in the wiki is as canon as it gets. One can always say that history is wrongly recorded, or that it's written by the winners, and yada, yada, yada; but that is the history that exists for this world. I can accept that there are instances where known history might be factually wrong, but not in this instance where we are talking about a 4,000 year period of peace. Had the number been 10 or even 20 years, sure, maybe the history is wrong, but not here, IMO. After all, someone as nuanced as Martin, has given the wiki his seal of approval.

I think this is the chapter where I started to feel a little compassion for Jaimie. It was difficult for me because he did push a little, innocent boy out of a window, and in my head, unless the boy is a devil spawn with supernatural powers, hell-bent on your destruction, there's absolutely no reason that would justify such a vile act. In this chapter, though, Jaimie displays a lot of introspection and self awareness. We see glimpses of the man he could be, and he even recognizes that Brienne, whom he had seen with so much disdain, is right. That's a big step for the character thus far. Again, a great peek into Jaimie's brain, which shows us he's not some heartless monster. He was rightfully horrified, and I'd dare say even traumatized by Aerys act, although he didn't even know Brandon and Rickard personally, and was at the most indifferent toward the Starks at the time. And here's the anvil of Roose's eventual betrayal. Upon re-read I see anvils everywhere; some I had seen on my first read, but they just kind of made me doubt Rooses's allegiance. Never did I think his betrayal would be as complete, brutal and devastating as it was.

Also, according to AWOIAF, by the time the Long Night came, the Children and the First Men had already been at peace for thousands of years. So, the Others showing up was not the catalyst for their peace agreement.

I agree, with some characters. If any of GRRM's top 5 (Jon, Arya, Bran, Tyrion and Dany) dies on the show, though, I'm pretty sure they'll die in the books. After those 5, there are other characters that are what I consider second in importance. Those are the ones with POVs in the books and/or who have been involved in the action practically since the beginning. They include: Jaimie, Cersei, Sansa, LF, Varys, Ramsay, Lord Bolton, Walder Frey, Theon, Davos, Melisandre, Sam, Jorah Mormont, and maybe others (the Hound?). I think that if any of these dies on the show, it's a good bet they will also die in the books. Then you have other characters that are tertiary, like the Sand Snakes, fAegon, The Mountain, Gendry, etc. Whatever happens to them on the show could or could not happen to them in the books. They are basically not instrumental to reach the planned end point, so D&D use them where they can and to get other characters where they need to be, or don't use them at all.

Maybe, or maybe not. Land shifts, bodies decompose, vermin gets in... there are many things that can make a construction issue arise years after the cause of the issue happened. That said, they did say that the plumbing in B3 was acting up again, so this was not the first time they had issues with it. The reason I'm speculating about something fishy going on is because of what they have shown us. First, there's the fact that the plumbing problem gets mentioned at all. It's a hotel, one would presume there are all kinds of maintenance issues that management deals with on a daily basis (electrical outlets, window latches, not enough hot water, water temperature, water pressure, AC units, etc.); so, why does the audience need to know about this specific issue in this specific bungalow? It looks like a classic Chekhov's gun (you introduce it in the first act and fire it in the third act). Second, there's the number of times the issue was mentioned. I counted at least three times, and in different episodes. If the audience needs to be reminded of it so many times, it's because something important is going on there. Third, there's the fact that what appears to be a small issue has not been resolved quickly. Again, it's a hotel, and one the family has owned for the past 30-40 years, one would think they have the hang of it and a small plumbing problem would be swiftly dealt with. In this case, Sally actually chooses to move the guests to another bungalow. Fourth, there is Sally's scene in the shower of Bungalow 3. Why is she trying to fix it? Doesn't she have a plumber for that? But, more importantly, why did she break down like that in B3's shower? Isn't it a very big overreaction to a simple plumbing problem? Combine those reasons with the recent introduction of Gillbert, a shady character who was involved in business deals with daddy Rayburn around the time the family acquired the property (something specifically mentioned by Gillbert), and Sally's despise for the guy and it's not illogical to theorize that something "bad" happened during the original sale, that Gillbert was involved, and that whatever happened then is resurfacing now. Then consider that murder and drug trafficking seem to be the crimes of choice for the Rayburns, and you get yourself a body or drugs buried under Bungalow 3.

Yes, I don't think it's as circular or as bad as Blackberryjam says. :) For me, it breaks down like this: There are some things which I could see coming from the text, which were confirmed by the show, so, they would be definite book spoilers (e.g. R+L=J). Also in this category are the plot developments D&D have confirmed Martin revealed to them (e.g. Shireen burning, Hodor's name origin) Major characters' fates. If a major character dies in the show, then, I'm sure that will be their fate in the books. Examples of these are: Rickon, Margaery, Loras, the Blackfish, Tommen, Walder Frey and Doran. What I'm not 100% sure of is that the plot leading to their deaths will be the same in the books as it was in the show. Rickon is in Skaagos, which is pretty far away from WF, the other end of the map, actually. So, I have a hard time imagining how he will become Ramsay's prisoner and die at his hands. The Blackfish actually escaped the siege of Riverrun in the books, so, he will definitely not meet his end the same way he did on the show. Loras is dying in Dragonstone, but I can see him sailing to the sept to die by wildfire. Tommen in the books is a little boy who is still playing with kittens, he's not going to jump out of a window because Margaery dies, so, I'm pretty certain book Tommen's death will be different. As someone else pointed out, Frey may be a victim of Lady Stoneheart, and not Arya. I'd put , Bran leaving the cave and heading back south in this category, as Bran is one of GRRM's major 5. Highly likely book spoilers. These are things that happen on the show that have a strong chance of playing out similarly in the books. For example, Cersei using wildfire to take revenge (the extent of the burning though, might be different. I think in the books she might, accidentally or on purpose, burn a much larger chunk of KL), Jon being named KitN (although, as I said, I waver on this one, because the books have given us enough of Jon's character to see him choose a different path for himself), Cersei sitting the IT (she'll definitely grab it, but I'm not sure she'll be the powerful, self assured TV Cersei, I think she'll lose the throne faster in the books, where Euron is on his way to KL, than in the show where he's only now cutting trees to make ships). Maybe/Maybe not book spoilers. I'd put the apparent cancellation of Clegane Bowl here. While The Hound is an important character, he's not a major character, so, what the show chooses to do with him can be very fluid. Since he's heading North in the show, maybe that will be where he eventually ends up in the books too, but he could do that after killing his brother in Cersei's trial by combat. In the books, Jaimie is not coming to her rescue, so she only has FrankenMountain, if she lost her trial, and Margaery won hers, Cersei would be desperate enough and angry enough to unleash the wildfire over KL. The Hound could head North right after, and we'd get the same outcome. So, for me, there are things that could play out the same in the books or they could not. Unless D&D and/or Martin verify these, then it's still open, IMO. It wouldn't be the first time the show changed something major from the books to accommodate the constraints of the medium they are working with. Examples of this are: Aegon; Stoneheart; and Doran's awesome, secret long game. I was going to say that if it happened to one of Martin's big 5 on the show, then it would be a sure thing in the books, but they even made big changes there, like Tyrion and Jaimie remaining best buds in the show, when book Tyrion is ready to kill Jamie on sight. Another developments that goes in this category for me is Theon and Yara/Asha joining Dany because logistically speaking they are literally separated by one continent and a half. The Greyjoy siblings are deep in the Northern snows while their uncle Victarion, who is not on the show, is the one getting closer to Dany. I think, in this case, the books will have Dany acquiring Victarion's fleet, so she can finally sail to Westeros, but I'm not sure how she will meet and ally with the two poorest Greyjoy family members. Maybe they'll go south after Stannis loses the battle of WF and meet her somewhere. But I tend to think that book Theon would want to serve the Starks to make amends for his betrayal, so, I think it's much more likely that book Theon will pledge his service to Jon and then maybe offer to be Jon's envoy to negotiate with Euron/Dany. The story of the origin of the Walkers also goes here for me. This is mainly because in the books, they speak about R'hllor and "the other one", the one who must not be named (like Voldemort), and the red priests (Thoros, Mel, and others in Essos) speak of the two Gods being at war way before humans got into it. So, to me, the book reads as a conflict of major supernatural forces, dark and light, that is a lot older than the Children of the Forest. The whole mythology behind the Walkers, their ability to raise the dead, their physiognomy, the way they melt away when punctured by dragonglass, their weapons and armor... all of it seems a lot bigger and more ancient than the CotF just sticking a piece of dragon glass into some guy; that is just too simple, considering all the descriptions and the lore surrounding these beings in the books. So, for me, the creation of the Walkers on the TV show is a maybe, not a definitive spoiler. And it is telling that D&D have confirmed other events as definite spoilers and not this one, which is much more significant to the main plot than Shireen burning, again, IMO. Definitely NOT book spoilers. Things that happened on the show that I'm sure will not happen in the books. Sansa will not get raped by Ramsey, and Sansa will not be the one killing Ramsey. The North Remembers will actually happen in the books, and they will rally behind a Stark to reclaim WF from the Boltons. Sansa will not lead a Vale army to rescue Jon from the Boltons, as her character is still very naïve in the books. I think she'll eventually head North, but not before the Starks are sitting in WF again.

I can't remember if the books say where the alleged abduction took place, but I don't think it would be Winterfell. How did these theorizers think it happened? I'm curious now :D Here's where we enter into uncertain ground. If something happens on the show, will it happen in the books? I think the person talking about the three reveals above (Hodor, R+L=J, and the origin of the WW), was presuming these were all reveals that are to be expected in the books, because of the way the story has been told so far. We know the Hodor story is part of Martin's canon because D&D confirmed George told them that, so, it is very likely it will happen in the books; but I don't think we have ever had even a small hint in the books about Bran being the cause or that Hodor would die holding a door closed to protect Bran. I think the prevalent theory was that Bran would become the new Three Eyed Crow and remain in place, integrating with the tree (in which case, Rickon would have been next in line to inherit WF). Since D&D have said they know where everyone ends up and that major characters will have the same fate in the show as they do in the books, I think it's safe to assume Rickon will die in the books (although the how of it will probably be different) and Bran will get back to WF (or at least to the Wall). Jon being proclaimed King in the North is not as certain to happen in the books, though. Robb's will could be the instrument that makes this happen, seeing as how in the books everyone thinks Bran and Rickon are dead, and Sansa is in the Vale (and at the pace her story is going, it doesn't look like she will make it North for the battle of WF, let alone to sit as Lady of the House, or to challenge Jon (maybe she will later, under LF's influence and after she's married to Harry the heir). Robb legitimizing Jon and making him his heir while he was King in the North should be enough to render anyone else's claim moot, although they could perpetuate the war trying. But I think if Jon gets to be King in the North in the books, the only thing that will change that status is the reveal of Jon's true parentage, which (if R and L married) would actually make him, the true heir to the Iron Throne. I don't think Jon wants either title in the books, all he wants is a way to defeat the Walkers and actually uphold his vow to be the "shield that guards the realm of men", but, since book Jon is a bit more politically savvy than TV Jon, it might be that he does indeed take the title just so that he can unite the North against the Walkers. In any case, we are not sure if Jon will just decide to lead on his own without any titles, or of he will be named King in the North. I waver on this, because that would put him in open rebellion against the Iron Throne (whoever sits on it) and several of the would be Kings of Westeros didn't like the idea of losing half their kingdom. So, taking that title, would be like declaring war on the IT, when they already have a much scarier enemy North of the Wall. I don't think Jon would want to deal with it that way. The origin of the Walkers, as I explained in my previous post, is most likely not a book spoiler. The other reveals you mentioned are surprises, but we can't be sure they will happen in the books. Cersei sitting the IT, Arya personally murdering Frey, Margaery converting... these are all things that could happen, but we are not sure will happen. I think Cersei will burn down KL, and that probably all of the major characters that died in the finale will die in the books (Margaery, Loras, the High Sparrow, Lancel), but I'm not sure about some other things. Dorne is one area in which I think the show and the books will diverge even more. In the books, Arianne is aligned with Doran and Tristane, and the Sand Snakes are also aligned, while Ellaria wants nothing to d with any of it. If Soran and Tristane die, I doubt it will be at the hands of the Sand Snakes.

Not to get ahead of the book, but in the next Sam chapter (3 chapters away, I think). Mormont discusses that very thing: the purpose of the Wall and the current perceptions of its job

I find it hard to believe that there was a fan theory regarding Hodor that guessed exactly what happened to him and where his name came from. Hodor = Hold the Door is way too specific. The CotF creating the WW I can see being a fan theory, but not Hodor's origin story. Also, I don't think D&D (or anyone else, for that matter) confirmed that the Children creating the Walkers will be book canon. IIRC, D&D said George made three reveals that shocked them: one was Shireen's death, another one was Hodor's origin story and they still haven't revealed the third one. I think something as big as the origins of the WW would qualify, but since it doesn't , I tend to think that D&D invented this development themselves. As a book reader, I think there are larger forces at play here that are way more ancient and primal than the Children creating the Walkers to fight the Andals. At least that's what I'm reading in the subtext, but I could be wrong, off course. Regarding R+L=J, you'd be surprised at how many book readers were not convinced this was the case. They theorized it was all a red herring and that Jon would remain dead. As @Avaleigh mentioned in the episode thread, the finale was a full on nerdgasm, in the sense that it confirmed a lot of theories that many of us felt were 100% accurate but many didn't. I suppose it's the satisfaction of knowing that you were right, but also, if you had an emotional attachment to any of the characters that survived; for example, Jon, it gives you hope for the character's future in the books. It's one thing to believe that you are 100% right. it's quite another to have that belief confirmed. I'm a book reader, so I have been spoiled for most of the series; in addition, I read spoilers, and casting calls, and if an episode leaks before time, I'm there to watch it, so, for me, the "surprises" are few or they come sooner than for an unspoiled viewer. I don't watch to be surprised, frankly. I watch for the emotional beats, the cinematography and to see the story end (since it appears Martin will not finish it any time soon). As to what I expect from a fantasy story, it's the same as I expect from any other story, a logical plot, a cohesive world, and, the most important thing of all, good characters that I can connect with. I don't even care if the story is clichéd, or a trope. I have read so many books, seen so many movies and watched so much TV, it's very rare when I see a story I haven't seen before in some form or another. But if the characters are good, I'd follow them anywhere.

She also plays one of Charles Manson's groupies in Aquarius (starring David Duchovny)

No. Performing the maneuver they did at the end of climbing the tower with the robot is worth so many points that it practically guarantees a win. However, very few teams ever attempt it because it's very easy for the opposing team to just block them on their way to the tower and the time to get there is very limited. So, no one had ever successfully managed to win by completing that task. Other teams in the past had attempted it but none had ever done it, not because the robots didn't have arms or the means to lift onto the tower, but because they were successfully blocked by the opposite team from reaching the tower in time. So, not many teams would attempt to win that way. Anchor Beach's robot had an arm which had not been working during the competition, but had worked before they got there. I think we are meant to understand that whatever Jesus did to lower the weight of the robot so they could compete had accidentally damaged something that prevented the arm from working. The team just didn't have enough time between rounds to find the problem and fix it. But if the other girl team picked them, they would have an hour before they had to compete again to fix it. They actually managed to fix the arm and told all the other teams their arm was working, betting that their bias against female programmers ("Girl Code", the title of the episode) would make them think they were lying. The other teams' coach actually said that he didn't think the arm was working because they had not used it for the whole day, and then asked his guy when he had heard the arm was working, to which the boy replied that he'd heard they had fixed it before the final match started. The coach acted as the female team expected and ordered his guys to pull the other robot away from Anchor Beach's robot, which then allowed Mariana's team to reach the tower and complete the maneuver on time, thus earning enough points to beat the other team. All of this was explained through dialog by the characters. I had the show on in my computer while I was working on a presentation, so, I wasn't even looking at the video and I got all of that, just by listening. There are some shows, like Game of Thrones, where I have to pay attention to the visuals, as well as the dialog, if I want to keep up, but this one is not one of them. The only time I look is when there's an extended period of silence with tense music, because then I know I'm meant to see something "shocking" or surprising.

Shooting schedule on a tv show that shoots on location can be impacted by many things. If, for example, they wanted to use a particular venue but didn't get permission for the week they were filming a particular episode, they may just change everything around. Actor availability (maybe they wanted a particular guest star that had other commitments), weather, etc.

How in the world is LF winning???!!! Madness!!!

I think all the stuff with bungalow 3 is set up for next season. My guess is that there's a body there, and that's how the Rayburns got that property. Gillbert probably had something to do with it and that's the reason old daddy Rayburn broke it off with him and Sally doesn't like him. We need new skeletons in the Rayburns' proverbial closets to keep the tension level up, and you just don't hire Beau Bridges for a single season, do you?

But he has said he does not want to hire a ghost writer. He wants to write it himself. Soooo....

Bran

Well, not that I'm defending him, but, from the article linked above: and also: So, it seems the book that's coming out is not written by George, only edited by George. That said, yeah, I think he has somehow lost his love for the main story, while still adoring the world he built and all the unexplored history in it. He said himself that once he knew how a story would end, he lost interest in it, so, I'm of the opinion that the biggest challenge for him is precisely that.

I might be remembering wrong but wasn't Ramsay Bolton the one that came up with the idea to use the miller's sons in place of Bran and Rickon?

You guys shouldn't put stuff like that out in the Universe! :-P

Good point! Maybe he won't, or maybe finding out that Marco is dead scares him, or he suddenly changes his mind, or has a convenient accident, or....who knows? I just have a hard time seeing a full season of either the three siblings in jail or following three trials (or even just one). The fact that the election was a season arc plot that didn't get resolved, leads me to believe they were saving it, so that John could start a political career, with a pile of skeletons in his closet. There's a lot of dramatic tension in something like that.

John let Eric go, so, maybe Eric will change his mind about testifying.

Wasn't Selmy the one who rescued Aerys from some kidnapping plot which in turn is pointed out to be where his (Aerys') paranoia started? I think this is mentioned only in passing in ASOIAF, but more in detail in other books from GRRM. Maybe Selmy's guilt stems from the fact that he didn't rescue Aerys in time to avoid all the paranoia that came later.

It's the song of Jenny of Oldstones, according to AWOIAF

The Night's Watch men didn't go to Hardhome with Jon, but Stannis' men did, and some of them must have survived the battle with Ramsey. Also, many NW men were at the Fist of the First Men, when they were first attacked by an army of WW and retreated to Craster's. Unless you have just arrived at the Wall, you know the Walkers are real.

ahahaah!!! That's what happens when you rush through a post!