WearyTraveler

I think the whole problem with TV Sansa is that the writers often want to have their cake and eat it too.

I believe so, because there are no other direct descendants. You go to the adjacent branches of the family tree when there are no descendants. Otherwise, the females can inherit. If, for example, Tommen had died before Myrcella, she would have been Robert's rightful heir, even if she is female. If Tommen were to die now, they have to look at other branches of the Baratheon tree to find the next heir (e.g. Robert's uncles, if he had any and their descendants). Males are before females in the direct line, but if there are no males, the direct descendant female inherits. If there are none, you move to other branches, usually working from the eldest male down.

I suppose because a book has to have a basic structure, narratively speaking. You really can't stop a story in the middle. If you look at the ending of every book, it was set-up for the continuation. I don't know that I'm explaining myself clearly. It's like having a conversation. The whole story is the entire conversation. Each book is a sentence in that conversation. You can't stop mid-sentence and expect people to understand your message. You have to finish the sentence, and then the conversation will continue with the next sentence. I hope that makes sense.

Sansa's note asked LF to ride North to aid them in battle. There were screenshots of it and some people deciphered most of it online. I understand having that opinion if you don't know what the letter actually said, but no, she asked for the army to come up and help them. Here's what the note actually said: "[…] you promised to protect me. Now you have a chance to fulfill your promise. […] Knights of the Vale are under your command. Ride north for Winterfell. Lend us your aid and I shall see to it that you are [well/properly] rewarded." Here's the link to the actual work and how a fan was able to figure it out: http://imgur.com/a/p2mfe#jzGzmx4

Yes, but the OP I was responding to expressed the opinion that Sansa didn't want LF involved until the last possible minute within the context of her actions this episode. So, I pointed out that she had, in fact, contacted him before. Brienne is the heir of Tarth. She has her own house, her own castle, her own vassal lords.... I wonder how Tormund would like living on an island

Not true. Sansa wrote to LF two episodes ago.

They did send people south with Robb in ASOS:

1) It's not just any open source wiki. These guys are so thorough that Martin invited them to write the Worldbook with him. They are obsessive to the point of sickness (which has caused many a rift in fandom, but that's neither here, nor there). In any case, if you follow the number to the footnote in the wiki, you can get the exact chapter in the books where they mentioned Ned's girl and all the other references in the quotes I posted. 2) The mountain clans in the North were isolated. They had no idea "Arya" was being married to the Boltons. They didn't support a Southerner, they supported the guy who brought them the information and was willing to fight for Ned's girl. As a matter of fact, that's the deciding point for them. They don't support Stannis because they think he's great and the saviour of the North, they supported Stannis, because he mentioned the Arya situation. Otherwise, he would have got nothing. And that is made very clear in the books. The mountain clans provided 3,000 men (all their strength) to go rescue Ned's girl, not to help Stannis gain his kingdom back. That's an important difference, IMO. In ASOS, Bran is helped by a Liddle, who pretty much guesses who he is because of the direwolf. In that chapter we learn about the isolation of the mountain clans and how they barely ever got involved in Northern politics, but we also learn how Ned used to go visit them and honor them. All of which we are reminded of when Jon advises Stannis. It is for Ned and the loyalty they feel to him that the mountain clans come down to fight, not for the Southern Lord. They didn't before because they had no idea that "Arya" was a prisoner. 3) I didn't include the quote from Lady Dustin to say she supported the Starks, but to give you the assessment of someone who supports Roose and is saying that the support of the other houses is still with Ned. She's extremely bitter about that. And as the quote before that says, even Roose is suspicious that the support he has from the Northern houses is tenuous. The whole reason for marrying Ramsay to "Arya" is to quench the winds of insurgency that Roose knows are rising. The only thing keeping the other houses at bay are the hostages the Freys have. One gets the feeling when reading that the Northern houses are just waiting for an opportunity to strike, which is why Roose is so adamant in marrying Ramsay to a "Stark". Roose is not stupid. He knows he doesn't really have the support of all those Northern houses. He knows that they are only pretending to be with him but secretly still honor bound to the Starks. As to what else they could have done, well, Manderly explains it very well to Davos: until they have a Stark to rally around and the proper opportunity, they won't risk it. They may be loyal to the Starks, but they are not stupid. The point is, in the books, the Northmen were not the fervent Bolton supporters we saw on the show.

There's also this conversation between Lady Dustin and Theon: And this entry in Jayne Poole's bio:

I'm not going to go through the text in my kindle, so, AWOIAF will have to suffice (emphasis mine): See also, from the same website:

Before the battle they were camping in exactly the same place where Stannis and his army were camping. Davos went for a walk the night before the battle, after he confessed to Tormund that he could never sleep before a battle and that all he did was walk. While he strolls he sees the remnants of a pyre like the ones Melisandre uses to burn the people she sacrifices to R'hllor. In the ashes he sees the half burnt and broken stag. Not hard to put 2 and 2 together after that.

Not true, Jon advises Stannis on how to talk to the Northern houses and all the mountain clans are with him, running to Winterfell to save "Ned's Girl". There are passages describing how much better the Northerners were dealing with the massive amounts of snow in comparison to Stannis' mostly southern army. We don't really know how the whole thing shakes down in the books, or even if Ramsey's pink letter is real, but if Stannis loses, it will be because of the snows and the weather, not because he lacked men. Jon told him exactly what to say and how to behave with each house and he got them. The Manderlys are the ones we most remember because of the smart long game Manderly was playing and because of Frey Pie (it's kind of hard to forget Frey pies), but the other houses were still supportive of the Starks and answered the call.

I think Jon is probably talking about all the houses that didn't join them when they fought the Boltons, and whose lords may have perished in battle (like the Umbers), plus the Lannisters, plus the Lannisters' friends, plus the Freys. If/when the other Northern Houses accept Jon and Sansa as their rulers, then Jon can relax (a little).

They were only a week away two episodes ago. If you recall, Dany was heading back to Meereen followed by the Khalassar when she stopped and asked Daario how far away they were. He said about a week. That's when Drogon showed up and she made her speech.

Umber-

They mean Rickon should zig-zag while running away, so as to be a more difficult target to hit.

Comments like the one I bolded above in the book thread always puzzle me. In the show Ned was portrayed more naïve than in the books, and now the show made Jon more reckless than he's ever been in the books, where he's a pretty good strategist and commander in battle. And it's all because of Ned. Robb didn't lose a single battle either, and his strategies were admired even by Tywin, who didn't think Robb would be smart enough to act the way he did. In Jon and Robb's POV chapters we see them remembering the battle lessons Ned taught them and winning battles because of it. Ned himself was a respected battle commander who broke the siege of Storm's End and helped Robert win many battles on his way to the Iron Throne, and also during the Greyjoy rebellion. I get that the show dumbs these characters down in order to get the "big" moments they want, but, as a book reader, I would never say it's because they were raised by Ned. They must have some people left because when they start fighting the Walkers, there won't be some secret army stashed away somewhere to save the day. It's all of Westeros against the dead. Essos and the other continents in this world are lucky that it's the Westerosi having to face the WW and not them. Yeah, I don't think Jaimie told anyone either, but they have to have someone talk about this before the next episode, I'm guessing, and since Jaimie couldn't have this conversation again with Brienne (been there, done that) or anyone else (who's he going to tell? Bronn?); they have Tyrion, who has had very little to do this season remind us of the wildfire while counseling Dany and establishing that she knows her father was a psycho pyromaniac. I agree. I think she won't give him what he wants, though. The battle scenes were gorgeous, the aerial shots were amazing, Jon almost suffocating was excruciating...but the whole Sansa and the Vale army plot was contrived for the sole purpose of having the surprise saving. I think the writers thought we'd be happy because Sansa was saving the day, but they only succeeded in confusing the audience as to her motives.

Yes, she did

So much happened in this episode... Jon beating Ramsey to a pulp was beyond awesome. The Direwolf banner unfurling over Winterfell? I got tears in my eyes!

Where did you read that? I've been looking, but I can't find this news. Only the news about the two previous leaks (episodes 5 and 8)

After watching this episode, I remain firm in the theory I put forth in the episode 10 thread that the voice over at the beginning of the season is the Machine talking to Samaritan.

You know it really is a pitty that D&D have decided to make Jon this reckless. I was just re-reading the chapters where Jon escapes from the Thenns, fights them when they reach Castle Black, and then commands the Night's Watch during all the Wildings' attacks upon the Wall. In the books, he really is a good strategist and a good commander. The men respect him and listen to him and he makes smart choices. Sigh!

Make room for me in the shallow end @bunnyblue.... DAYUM!!!

Here's what I'm wondering about the latest info from TrueDe: With regards to Arya: Episode 9:

Well, that's what Frikidoctor is doing now, after HBO made him take down three videos. I think he got the same spoilers other sites got and spilled what the other sites didn't. But now he's just doing the same thing we do with all the information we get. It's nice that he does it by episode, though, because then we are reminded of spoilers from long ago that are just now being revealed. WIldfire is green, and it was green on the show (Blackwater episode). So, I don't think anyone would mistake it for dragon fire.