WearyTraveler

I was going to post this in the media thread, but, since all the cast that is present could constitute a spoiler, I'm posting it here. The cast eating together at the restaurant of Spanish chef Martín Berasategui (who has been awarded 7 Michellin stars over the years)

Why do we think the WW have to constantly animate the wights? I haven't seen anything in books 1-5 that explains the corpse animation and functioning process definitively. We are learning as we go. The hand Thorne took to KL rotted; it's true, but it continued to move, even so. IIRC, the bones were still moving, but Thorne didn't think they were very convincing enough. So far, I think that once someone has been re-animated, they will remain a wight until destroyed by fire. The WW appear to have the ability to command the wights to do their bidding, but the books strongly imply that the wights retain some of their memories and appear to hold grudges. Maybe proximity to the WW helps them to command the wights, but once they are far away, the Walkers can't do anything to control them (so, we get Thorne's wight hand still moving all the way down in KL)

Could the letter (if it exists) be the one they asked Sansa to write after Robert died and they put Ned in jail?

If I have one major gripe with the show, it's the extreme direwolf discrimination!

Kit and Emilia certainly look pretty together.

All these spoilers are so exciting! I couldn't care less who Jon ends with (if I had to pick someone, I'd prefer Val, but since she's not on the show, that will probably not happen in the books either), but it makes me happy to get new information on the upcoming season. Can't wait for next year to see how this all plays out.

Maybe they are waiting until her actual coronation to give her a truly Targaryen outfit

I think, for me, the most heartbreaking aspect of Arya at this stage is the sharp dichotomy between her list and her fear. The list shows us how much she has seen, how she's becoming jaded, desensitized to violence, and bent on revenge; it represents how fast she's had to grow and how despite being just a little girl, she's older than her years. The one fear she has is that her family won't want her back because of the things she's done, specifically, killing people. This shows a level of introspection that is, again, beyond her years. Her guilty feelings about these acts and the fact that at some level she still thinks taking a life is wrong, show that she still has some humanity left inside; she's not completely lost. But, most of all, this fear shows that she's still a little girl, who only wants to be loved and be with people who will protect her from the atrocities she now knows are out there. If I had to pick a song that represents Arya at this point in time, it would be "Save me" by Queen, which always did make my eyes water; so, maybe that is why I find it so heartbreaking to read about Arya being terrified that her family would reject her.

Clicking through the pictures in that article, I found these ones interesting http://www.elcorreo.com/fotos/bizkaia/201610/21/juego-tronos-rueda-juan-203712237175-mm.html?edition=bizkaia (Jon and Davos starting their descent on those stairs. Two guards behind them who look like Dothraki warriors. The shape of the torches along the stairs is very Dany-esque) http://www.elcorreo.com/fotos/bizkaia/201610/21/juego-tronos-rueda-juan-203712237175-mm.html?edition=bizkaia (Missandei, next to Jon and Davos, in what looks like an actors' break. Missandei has some big red piece of fabric (mantle? cape? blanket?). Given the sunny day and the Spanish weather at this time of the year, in addition to the heaviness of the costumes, I don't think they provided her with the red thing to keep her warm)

I can't remember which book/chapter, but there is one where someone explains how the raven system works: they raise ravens at a specific rookery, then someone takes the raven somewhere else by foot/horse in a cage. When released, the raven flies back to the place where it was born and "raised". The rookeries have cages specifically for every major castle they communicate with. Now, this poses some problems, if, for example, someone runs out of ravens from a castle to which they want to send a message. Also, there's another chapter where Catelyn (IIRC) speaks about the dangers of sending ravens, particularly during wartime. She says it can be easily shot down by the arrow of a soldier/rebel/sellsword just to be eaten, or because soldiers know ravens carry messages and they might want to read them. There was also a chapter where someone shoots down all the ravens leaving a specific castle, so that no messages can reach the other side. But sending a human messenger is risky too. The person could be captured and tortured by the other side, attacked by wolves in the Riverlands, get lost at sea... Doubling down might just be a good idea. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what reason they give for Brienne going south

The exact translation is "I know that [Gendry] acts in King's Landing and meets up with Davos at some point". Also a good thing to watch for when translating is that he writes "Desembarco" with a capital "D" which indicates a proper noun (as it does in English). If he were referring to an act of landing, he'd spell it "desembarco" (which really is more than landing, it actually means to get out of the boat itself, and it's also used as the oposite of boarding a plane: embarcar means board, desembarcar means disembark)

When the Spaniards refer to Desembarco in relation to GoT they mean Desembarco del Rey (King's Landing). Desembarco is a noun, if they meant to say someone landed, was landing, will land in a place, they would conjugate the verb and use the name of the place. So, a phrase like "Dempsey was seen landing [in Drangonstone]" would be "Dempsey fue visto desembarcando en Drangonstone"

The doctor introduced her to Spector's solicitors as his "dedicated nurse", so, it seems Paul is her only patient. I like the slow burn of this show and that the reasons for drama are so grounded in reality. I think a lot shows nowadays are trying to top themselves or other shows and they go way over board on the drama, creating situations that seem out of the realm of possiblity just so they can be more dramatic. I think Paul might have been truthful as soon as he woke up from his coma, but that he got his memory back or has been progressively getting his memory back. I'm betting seeing the pictures of his victims was a major factor. Unfortunately, I think we're heading to a scenario where the nurse will become another one of Paul's victims.

I don't doubt his intention, it's his ability to deliver that I question.

I forget what chapter or book it is, but there's one instance when Stannis is telling the story of the first time he and Robert saw the Iron throne and how impressed they were with the King as they watched him hold court only to find out later that Aerys was not the one holding court that day, but Tywin, standing in for Aerys because he was Hand of the King at the time. I wondered about the truth of that statement. Later on, when Selmy tells Dany about Aerys, he doesn't sugarcoat it, and even tells her that story about the baby Targs having a 50-50 chance to go down the crazy route. So, Barristan is not blind to his former King's flaws. I think he might have been right on the money with Varys. Later, when we learn the game that Varys and Mopatis have been playing, we learn that Varys has been involved in training (f)Aegon not only on the kingly arts but also on the plight of the common people, so he could be a better ruler. Varys repeatedly says he serves "the realm" and we tend to dismiss it because he's so often portrayed as a player with an agenda, who is devious and grossly underestimated; but I think there might actually be a lot of truth on that. Varys was a common boy, who was mutilated because he was disposable, like so many other peasants and small folk are. If his plan was to really change the system from within through (f)Aegon, I could see him trying to destabilize Aerys' monarchy to create enough chaos to do exactly that. Maybe the original plan had been to get rid of Aerys so Rhaegar, who is well regarded by everyone except Robert, could rule. Or to kidnap Viserys and hide him away while they moulded him into the King they wanted to have. Then Robert killed Rhaegar, Viserys was sprinted away by someone else, and the Mountain smashed baby Aegon's head, forcing Varys and Mopatis to change plans. Whatever the plan was, I think it is possible that Varys fanned the flames, so to speak, of Aery's madness, and Barristan instinctively knew that Varys wasn't really working for Aerys. _____________________________ One minor detail that I found interesting in this chapter is that after Stannis names Davos his hand, he starts going through the names of the Lords that are still loyal to him and he mentions "my cousin Andrew". He doesn't mention a last name, but he does talk about the Florents together, and then starts naming other houses. So, I wonder if we'll ever hear about this cousin again. If I'm not mistaken, according to the laws of succession, this cousin would be the heir of the IT if something were to happen to Stannis and Shireen.

Edric was conceived in Stannis' marriage bed, during Stannis' wedding to Selyse. It happened after the wedding, but before the bedding, which is why Selyse thinks that Robert's act somehow cursed her marriage to Stannis and it's the reason why she hasn't given Stannis any sons.

But one of Dany's biggest problems in her quest to re-take the Iron throne has always been how to get her troops across the sea; in the books and on the show. In the books she has no ships, and it seems she'll get the Iron fleet once Victarion gets there. On the show she had the Meereenese fleet, but the Sons of the Harpy burned it (conveniently delaying her ability to cross the sea until the finale). In the books she has 8,000 Unsullied, two sellsword companies (probably three after Tyrion and Jorah escape the mutiny in the slavers camps outside Meereen), thousands of former slaves that have been training under Barristan and Grey Worm to be soldiers, and is probably going to get a horde of Dothraki riders to switch to her side after they find her and Drogon. On the show she has the 8,000 unsullied, the Dothraki horde, and the slaves. They haven't focused too much on the sell-sword companies beyond showing us Daario, but we know she has fighters. Transporting the Unsullied alone would require hundreds of ships. Even if we estimate that their numbers have decreased because of the fights they have been in, she easily has 5,000 soldiers to transport, with their equipment. If we say 200 soldiers to a ship, that's 250 ships she needs. Add to that all the horses and their riders, and well, Dany probably needs at least 500 ships to get her army across the sea (in books and show). So, whoever provides the ships for her needs to go get the people at Meereen and then turn back to Westeros. In the books they will probably have her march to a port closer to Westeros, while on the show they are already on their way because D&D play fast and loose with distances (not a complaint, I think it's necessary to do that on TV).

"To go north you must go south" could mean landing in Dorne, which is the southern part of Westeros. From there they can start csmpaigning toward KL. Dany has dragons, but she can't fly all her troops to KL. Her Foot will have to march and her Horse will have to ride. Considering that part of her army will be Dorne's military forces, if she lands too far north she will have to sit and wait for them to arrive.

I still have hope that the vision the crone from Oldstones had in the books was about Sansa slaying LF, in Winterfell. All her other predictions came true, so, I'm hoping that what she saw was Sansa taking down "The Titan of Braavos" (the original sigil of LF's house), and not breaking Robin's "giant" doll over her snow castle at the Eyrie. Fingers crossed!!!

I'm the worst! During this re-read I finished the book way before time. Then, a few chapters ago, I decided to start at the chapter that @Avaleigh had posted last, and I did it again (read all the way through the end)! So, I went back to this chapter and started from there (again) before reading Avaleigh's summary. I also downloaded a bunch of books to resist the temptation of reading ahead a third time (by the time we end this re-read, I'll know the book by heart, LOL!). One more time, kudos on a great summary! I highlighted the same Thoros phrase quoted in the summary, perhaps because I have recently read a bunch of theories about the origin of the Walkers that either sprouted because of what was on the show or existed before and their proponents felt the show had unofficially confirmed them. I've made the argument that, while possible, I don't get the feeling from the books that it will play that way, but it's difficult during the discussions to remember everything that the books say to support that. Partly because it's peppered throughout with small comments like the one Thoros made here. I know my read is that these forces are primal, ancient and that they have been at war way before the CotF were around (maybe the story in the books will not be that the Children made the Walkers, but perhaps that they accelerated/helped their awakening that one time; sort of like making a deal with the devil), but I can't pinpoint to all the specific events/passages that make me see it that way. The Hound crying is shocking, because his character has never given any hints of expressing emotions through tears; so, it's very effective to see him broken down to that point. Fire does terrify him more than anything in the world. I remember feeling Arya's anger and frustration upon first read, and now that I think about it, the way the sisters are written, perhaps Arya has the best narrative structure, and that's why so many prefer her to Sansa. She's accepted the reality around her way sooner than Sansa did. I get the feeling that, had it been Sansa witnessing this duel, a part of her would still be hoping that the true knight would be victorious. Meanwhile, as soon as she heard "trial by combat", Arya lost all hope (her inner monolog is: "The Hound is deadly with a sword"). She has no illusions that it will go her way, and this is even before the Red Wedding shatters her even more. The way the story is told, Arya is not even partly responsible for the shit that happens to her. She tries to escape and is caught, she spots the liars and the lies quite quickly, and is always overpowered because she's small. Meanwhile, up until LF tells Sansa that it was Olenna who poisoned Joeffrey, she was being played left and right (even her rescuer was playing her), and it could be argued that because she blabbed to Cersei about Ned's plans, she contributed to her current circumstances. Sansa is written as a victim who wants a saviour, while Arya is written as a victim trying to save herself.

It was published long ago (and they even made a TV miniseries out of it), so maybe you have already read it, but I enjoyed North and South by John Jakes.

And then he said he was going to try Seinfeld next! Brilliant!

Yes, it sounds like an awful, awful place. It's horrifying and dismal, and sad, because you just know that these women don't know that there's something different out there in the world. The question you raised about how long Craster has been doing this is interesting. Not only because of the levels of interbreeding and the genetic mess that it is, but also because of the boys that Craster has been sacrificing to his gods (i.e. The White Walkers). We are told that the WW had not been seen for centuries, so when exactly did they wake up, come back, regenerate or whatever it was that caused their return? The women say that Craster gives the boys to the gods. Let's say Gilly is 15/16 years old (same age as Jon/Sam), what happened to the boys born at that time (Gilly's brothers)? Were they given to the "gods"? If so, that means the WW have been back for at least that long. So, Rhaegar's fears about the Long Night were on the money, even if they weren't based on cold, hard facts. More importantly, is Craster unknowingly responsible for the Walker's resurgence? What if after Azor Ahai defeated the Other one who must not be named only one Walker was left standing (I hesitate to say alive)? What if this lone Walker had been searching for the way to create others like him and what if the only way was to use new born babies? This Walker-wight business doesn't seem to be such a straight up, repeatable process. The book's story on the Night King has him as the 13th Lord Commander who loved a woman that seemed to be a WW (white, cold skin, blue eyes, no black hands). If so, that is the only female WW we have in the books. Could it be she was the only one left? Or was she a WW experiment gone sideways? What about the wights? We know that 99% of the time, the Walkers can turn any living thing who die into wights, but how come we have Coldhands?

We're calling him Kitten? That's awesome! :D

Loving the hashtag #rowrowrowyourboatGendrydownthestream LOL!