Athena

The Cut did a retrospective by interviewing past contestants over the show's 20 years. I haven't thought about this show in literal years but I remember when it aired and the TWOP recaps and threads. There was interview with a writer from the show discussing at the time that reality shows writers should be recognized. I don't remember any of the models in the article except Adrianne Curry who won Cycle 1.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This may include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

@DoctorAtomic I moved your post here as the Media topic is no book talk. Other readers of the books can answer here as well. I have only read one but from I've read from synopsis and other readers, they are primarily historical mystery novels. Lord John's status as a closeted gay man in a very conservative time and place is also part of the books. Hopefully another reader of the books can elaborate.

A satisfactory ending. I felt this season was even more uneven than the others because of the short time frame. I actually found the episodes hard to watch because of the constant shifting of allegiances and stupidity of the characters sometimes in trying to justify their actions. I missed the location porn which we barely got in this ep and a bit in the Norway ep. I never thought the kids would get it especially once they had this GoJo lined up. While this show is not the real world, Logan and the old guard knew this was a good deal. Frank, Karl, and Gerri said it as much to the kids saying that this was the future. The only people who were against it were the three kids. Logan said it last season when he made the deal. Kendall would run it into the ground. When Shiv stopped to think about it as the only person who was outside of the company, this is a good deal for the family and them. I told my spouse that while Shiv put her hand on Tom's. Neither of them really moved to entwine it together. It was more like placed there rather than united. It's a tenuous alliance. I've always thought Tom has some level of love for Shiv. Yes, it's off the back of his own brown nosing to the family but he's had moments where he genuinely wanted to love his wife. I also think they have more of a balanced relationship now. Throughout the whole season, we've seen all the kids threaten and cut off all any support they have left. Roman with Gerri. Shiv and Tom constantly off and on. Kendall with Rava and everyone in his life. In the end, Roman may be be better off alone for awhile and Shiv and him may have a better relationship in some way. Shiv and Tom are somewhat together. Kendall only has Colin like his Dad did but that's not a true personal relationship. I didn't feel sorry for Kendall either especially after he back tracked about the kid and his temper tantrum about how he needed it. I actually felt good for Roman because I think he came to the same conclusion finally that their Dad did. They are all bullshit and not serious people. I really couldn't stand Roman for most of this season but I felt for him when he went to the bar after. Whatever Shiv's reason, she knew Logan was right that Kendall wasn't right for the job and the sale was good for the company as a whole. There are variations of Greg all over the corporate world who don't do much work at all. Greg's nepotism means he's shielded and can get away with doing very little. He'll always be ok. I learned not to have imposter syndrome at a young age when I saw corporate "consultants" and managers like Greg all over the place. These people truly don't do much and live off the back of their subs. Agree that Tom is not an incompetent manager. He's fine being the figurehead and he knows the people who are actually good at what they do: Gerri, Karolina, Ebba. Out with the old guard. Even Greg has his uses. Tom having this skill means he's better than the kids. Yes she turned then because this was never about what their Dad wanted. Rejecting this deal is the complete opposite and it was delusional for Kendall to keep thinking it. I do agree that it was an emotional decision tinged with jealousy but again, this is actually being disloyal to their father.

Ted will be fine financially. The average salary in the championship (second league in S2) is around £870,000. The lowest managers in the EPL get £1.5 million and I bet Rebecca and Higgins would have given Ted a nice bonus for being promoted and/or leaving. Ted was incredibly frugal in his 3 years. He lived in the same place which was covered in his contract. We only ever see him spend money out with Beard for food and on Henry. Most of the money went back home to Henry and the cost of living in Kansas is much lower than even the UK. Unless Ted is incredibly stupid, he can take a well deserved break to be a dad before looking for his next job which will be very easy considering what he's achieved and his charisma. I really wish I could take break for a couple years from work and focus on family or my mental health instead. Ted's issues were never about not working or finding work. I always thought Ted would leave from the start of the show so this ending made sense. Like you, I would totally have taken Rebecca's offer and I am an introvert but also a former expat and travelled a lot. Ted isn't like us. It's obvious while he loves his work, his personal life needed work. He has the privilege and freedom to do that now especially since he had baggage about his own parents. He never seemed interested in being exposed to other cultures. He didn't like tea or sparkling water and maybe a host of other foods and drinks we didn't know about. People like what they like. He spent part of his time Amsterdam in a Fake American restaurant. He was homesick and hiding it from a lot of people. Is it a practical decision given the advantages? No because he gave up millions. Was it the right emotional decision for the character? For me, yes. ETA: The EPL has a history of managers coming back to clubs or the league so Ted could easily come back in some post-show fanfic after a time.

There are 9+ books about Lord John. Not everyone who reads the main series reads them though. I've read one and it was enough. I like LJ but the books are long.

Does this person work with Frasier?

While not perfect compared to say "The Good Place", I agree with you that this show's gentleness and quirkyness is why I love it. Someone said before that the show is a fairy tale and I agree that it's more fantasy than real life. In fact, most sitcoms have these elements. Romcoms especially have this magical realism aspect and this season leaned much harder into that. I really like this show and while I found S3 the most flawed, I liked a lot of what didn't work for others including Nate and Jade. I think both those actors did the best with what they were given. This brings me to my main quibble for the finale because he was flat in this episode. Sudeikis showed he could be involved and into it like the the end of the last episode. He was only vulnerable with his mother and Michelle this season. In the past, he was able to be that way a bit with Rebecca and Dr Sharon. He doesn't need to be having panic attacks to talk to people emotionally. I do agree that Ted never seemed truly at home in the UK and his personal journey was to get help with therapy (like Roy at the end) and be a more committed father. Henry is getting to the age that Ted was when he lost his dad and it was important for Ted be there for Henry. Still, he seemed so aloof and a bit too removed from everything and everyone. I also did not find any romantic chemistry between Rebecca and Ted. I really didn't want them together since I'm all for platonic work and friendships. However, shipping is personal and you like what you like so I feel them because the writers did troll them this finale.

Is it a place in Seattle?

A good movie which explored this was Goodbye Lenin which starred a young Daniel Brühl (The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Inglorious Basterds). They explore the difficulty for people living it in after the fall and how they have to navigate for those who are true believers. As for what happened to Paige and Henry, there are real life examples which is detailed in this article: As a minor with an FBI agent as a friend / guardian, he probably had help to get him in anonymity. Paige would be more limited in terms of travel.

Once we get more details and the show is actually being made or finished, PBS or another streaming service will likely purchase the license it for USA airing. ITV was the original home of Downton Abbey so it's not a surprise they are involved here.

Dottie said she was at a hostel hanging out with a bunch of Australians. The whole thing was strange but it's obvious that the Lassos are not good at communicating directly with each other. Instead of telling her son she was coming, she decides to delay it even when she gets there and presumably stalks him a little without having tell him he's there. No wonder Ted is frustrated with her. This was probably his whole adolescence where she is wholesome, charismatic mom but doesn't get to the point with her own son. He did steal the meth but it does not mean he was addicted or using it either. I assumed he stole it to sell it but there could be other reasons. He could have stolen it to get out of debt with bad people. Now we're getting into Breaking Bad territory. I've also heard and read the same thing about psychedelics which is what Beard is into more than anything.

Keely and Jamie's relationship didn't seem close enough to be on that level when they were together. Aside form getting the issues and limitations that @Schweedie has mentioned, a lot of fans prefer not to go to games for a variety of reasons including the weather, harassment, crowding, and having to hear people heckle on your family member / loved one. It's a lot better now than it was twenty or thirty years ago, but it's not something a lot of fans choose to do on a regular basis. I could see Georgie and Simon preferring to take it easy at home. It's not like Jamie can get away to see them for very much after the game either.

A lot of big production American shows are still trying to find this sweet spot. UK shows have shorter seasons and that has always been the standard. There are a couple of reasons to this: there are often less writers on UK shows and in some cases, less involvement by the execs. This additional order from Apple for 2 extra episodes probably affected the pacing and they were missing the influence of a more seasoned show runner like Bill Lawrence. This has not been the worse season for me but it's been more uneven compared to S1 and S2. I like Jade and the actress. She's very different compared to other characters you see on American TV shows and very dry which you see more Europe and the UK. They could have developed her further but they've shown consistently how she observes people. She spent most of this episode sneaking away and trying to push Nate back out now that he seems to be feeling better about himself. A line that I liked which I don't think has been mentioned is Katy Wix's Barbara line to Roy: "Oh this... I got it at a car boot sale for £2." I got a laugh from her switch from being dry to being flattered and it's so realistic that would buy work clothing from a boot sale. She's an excellent comedienne and I wish we had seen her interact more with the other characters.

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Week of May 21, 2023.

Like others, I have mixed feelings about how this season has gone compared to S1 and S2. Something I have come to really appreciate and also remember about this show is how earnest it is and it's why I love it. Its earnestness comes in the writing as well. The writers and Nick made Nate too much of a dislikeable character after S2. I do think they have not done the best of writing this redemption arc. And yet I do find myself sympathetic to Nate. Was the father's speech lazy writing and not realistic? Yes. Then again so many things about this show is not realistic at all even for a sitcom. I think the comparison to The Good Place as a fantasy sitcom is good. The Good Place had better character writing in other ways. For me, I give this show a lot of benefit of the doubt because it has so much good going for it. I prefer these earnest shows now and they are few and far between. I find myself buying into this Nate arc because the writers and the actor are trying their best with its measley bits. Obviously not a lot of people are buying it but hey, it's okay with me so far to make a character reflect and move on to become better. Personally when I rewatch this season, I'll be fast forwarding through Shandy, the Jack arc, and Zava. Zava was funny at the time but didn't really add anything except to influence Jamie to be more ambitious which is a great thing. Also another minority opinion here: I always thought Rebecca and Sam had chemistry because of the actors. They both have chemistry with everyone so it's sweet to see them friendly with one another after everything. So glad finally that Roy has realized his mistake and it seems like him and Keeley are back together. Rebecca's speech was unbelievable but once again, Hannah was luminous and beautiful. I loved the moment in the mirror and it made me teary just how kick ass she can be. Anthony Head was so great showing Rupert's range. My view is that things have been messy at home and in his office. The previous assistant left or was pushed out by his wife who didn't seem that in love anymore last we saw. Nate left so now he's got less people to control. That's why he's sniffing around Rebecca again. Oh, he has feelings for her, but he'll always be a grade A Narcissist. Dani being evil playing for Mexico was an interesting twist. I didn't like that he dumped chips on a plane. I really hope he cleaned that mess up! Sam being the enemy of a billionaire is scary but Sam has so much strength and resilience. I heart Jamie Tartt too.

There are too many contestants at this stage and some people are rarely featured so it's always like "Who dis?" when you see them. I like Robbie and there are a couple of others that I don't mind. I find myself not keen on Andrea (rightfully eliminated), the Irish guy Phil (?), Grace (the East Asian who is going against their current career to go to food), and Cath who annoyed me a lot with her constant whinging "someone took the figs" and "i don't like this ingredient" and the "WAAAOWW" It's been too much pasta.

Adding onto some things about Hannah Waddingham's life. She is a single mother and her daughter has an auto immune disease. Hannah made the decision a few years ago to only shoot and work locally in London to be near her daughter. She use to do a lot of theatre work both plays and musicals but I think she was struggling before she got cast here. She took on this role because they filmed it locally. We wouldn't be able to see her otherwise!

Week of May 14th, 2023.

This episode had lots of great moments. Rebecca, Roy, Trent, and Colin moments were stand outs for me. May be an unpopular opinion, but I like Jade and always have. Even when she was rude, I guessed she was European. I don't like how they are dealing with the Nate arc but I like her. I agree that Rupert is such an abhorrent person. He is the biggest Narcissist. Good acting by Anthony Head as usual. I loved this scene and how it ended. I could see Isaac being ignorant and curious. A lot of footballers like Isaac have been funneled to play football since they were young kids and have a cloistered upbringing in a different way than some other kids. He probably stopped going to school by age 16 and he likely comes from a working class and immigrant household. Colin is not the first gay person he's ever met, but Isaac probably doesn't interact with gay people in his personal life. It makes sense how he wouldn't even say ILY to one of his best mates but he does feel it.

These live action Disney movies have an atrocious record since Cinderella. I stopped after watching Beauty and the Beast. This is the only one that looks promising because of the casting. They got someone who can sing really well and charismatic enough to play the role of a Disney princess. Eagerly waiting for the reviews here to see if this will do well.

Keeley has dated at least three footballers: Jamie, Roy, and a third when she was younger. While the team was in the Championship in S2, Jamie and Roy were EPL players when she dated them. It's implied that they are top England players too since Jamie was at Man City and Roy may have won Champions League with Chelsea. They've never really specified outright how famous Keeley was as an It Girl but she was constantly working as a model and personality before this season. I don't think she's exactly private either since she said has posed in risque photos in this episode. I think the VF article was about her rebranding from It Girl model to business woman. It's not like she was on the cover. The choice of the US centric VF may be a bit odd. I could see her in UK Vogue or Elle UK though.