Retired at last

OK, FINALLY something to see tomorrow night! And, no way do I believe they are just platonic. I hope that when the rest of the group finds out, all of their compassion goes to Allen. Michelle treated David like crap from the wedding night on, so while she will carry on that she was a victim, she wasn't. And she deserves no empathy.

It seems like they always have trouble getting men to appear, so they are recruited, but it still seems to me that some of these women did originally want to be married. I think Emem may have wanted to really find a husband, so that's why she is clinging to following the process and saying that she wants the "marriage" to work. But, she doesn't, if she has two working brain cells. I think we have other women who just wanted to find a reasonable plus-one to add to their existing lives. We get a lot of those women. They don't want to change or compromise, but they want a permanent date to adore them. I am afraid that with the move to Peacock, they will all be a bunch of people who want SM or influencer points and no one will take this seriously. Maybe they will all just be put in a room and let them decide on their own matches from the ones who have been picked. Couldn't end up any worse. I think if they went back to not doing things (living, activities) in the total group, they would have better results.

I actually think it's funny, in a pathetic way, that Allen, and maybe David are changing their looks and style all to attempt to win the heart of a heartless woman. Madison is immature and selfish and only cares about surface-level things, like teeth. And partying. She is not the glamour girl she thinks she is and I still think she looks very masculine and has stupid extensions. Michelle, as much as I detest her, usually looks good on Afterparty and she does have a nice figure. Other than that, she is horrible, personality-wise. And both of them laugh WAY too much!

Every time I think my level of disdain and dislike for Michelle has reached a peak, she finds a way to make me even more disgusted. She is so insistent that we all see her as the victim, but she is badly misjudging her own behavior, which she has done the whole show, which is why she is going to remain a single, lonely bitch until she dies. And Madison and her laugh can just go home. Her tantrums that end up going away need to stop. But, I really need Allen to grow up and acknowledge that he is going nowhere with her, which is good for him - she will never love him. I do hope we get some answers about the reported hook-up with Madison and David or find out it was just the best teaser they could come up for this crappy season. NO, Juan - please grow back your beard. Someone referred to his "porn stache' and that's what it is. He is a handsome man, but not liking the new look. I imagine that after 8 weeks of Karla, the next woman he meets who is even semi-normal will be able to get him. He keeps saying he came on the show for fun, and that's what he is having. For Em to insist that she wants to remain married to Ick makes me totally disgusted with HER. She is supposedly a smart woman, but this is not doing her any favors. She seems to speak realistically about him when she is with the group, but I would be surprised if any of them would support her need to stay married, just to meet her goal. The thing with goals is that you need to be smart enough to realize when you set a stupid, harmful goal and be willing to CHANGE IT! My dislike for Camille continues to grow and fester. She is a very selfish woman and Tom is a great guy. He and Allen need to get together and decide that they both deserve better women in their lives. And they both will easily get them. I have yet to see why they seem so enamored with their wives. I am glad that Allen told Madison that he was NOT in love with her. She already has enough power over him. Maybe he is feeling paternal and likes caring about someone. She isn't done partying. Camille just needs an AI doll or robot to make over the way she wants since she doesn't seem to care about Tom's needs or interests. I agree that Tom and Camille will be the sole couple who say yes on Decision Day, but I hope they have split by the Reunion. Here are my predictions - Michelle will come to the Reunion saying that she has a wonderful man in her life who appreciates her - which will be a complete lie. Karla will say that her many businesses are thriving, but will still be unable to describe what those businesses are. Em will say that she is still healing from the trauma inflicted by Ick (although she inflicted it on herself) and is not looking for a partner right now. Madison and David will announce that they are living together in David's basement and going out to party every night. Allen and Tom will say that they are going on a singles cruise to meet women this summer. Juan will be back at work.

I don't believe her for a minute, but Michelle did claim on Afterparty that after the cameras left, she and David went to a bar and had a very nice time. Not buying it. Any time David has spoken, he says how she doesn't speak to him at all, and while his "player" ways seem to have returned, I do believe he did give it a good try before she just rejected him once too often. And for the show to try to make these people do those intimacy exercises is ridiculous. I am sure it is part of the playbook where we see the same things every year - on their anniversary, they get their vows and wedding albums, etc., followed shortly by a visit from the sex dr. Well, the majority of these couples don't even hold hands, much less anything else. Several haven't kissed since the wedding, so to ask them to become intimate is just plain stupid. And we know that "intimacy" is their code word for sex. Or, the ever popular, "vulnerable." PLEASE let something interesting happen tonight, show gods!!!!!

In addition to the move to Peacock, which I don't think will help them, it has been renewed for 3 more seasons! I don't know if Peacock will allow even more salacious discussions than Lifetime, but I already think there is TMI on these shows. So, along with many of you, I choose a Divorce on D Day. And, I agree with @Jeanne222 that Camille and Tom will be done by the reunion. She will grow tired of her "project" to make Tom into something he is not and he will finally realize that she is way too much for him to handle. I think she is trying to make him into something that she herself is not, which is amusing, but sad. She is NOT cool, swag, or trendy, and if she likes rough sex, whatever. I just don't want to hear about it.

I think this season that ALL of the women seem to think that they are better than their spouses - and some of them are. But, they aren't likable at all, especially the blondes. I wonder if that is why the show was so delayed almost a year before they started showing it. Maybe they tried to edit and fix it the best they could, but there was nothing they could do to make this season successful. But, other than Ick-man, and this latest David story, there hasn't even been any drama. Just a bunch of people who were paired with people they never should have been paired with. Sometimes that brings drama, other times, like here, they are just boring.

He truly must feel intimidated by her if he doesn't want to show her the best part of him. But, why would that woman date him for 2 years????? And why would he talk about being on the show, unless it was about how he wants to be on the show since he wasn't selected in Houston, right?

She whines and cries about not being taken seriously because of her beauty, but I think that is all she sees of herself. I have never known a beautiful woman to refer to herself as 'beautiful.' If she wants to complain about her looks, she could refer to herself as 'attractive' (kind of), but not beautiful, which we have seen and heard her say several times. And she is actually zquite masculine in her looks and body type, so I even asked myself if she may have been trans?

The more I see of the "real" Camille, the more I dislike her even more than I already did. She is not a nice person - she is cold and mean. She enjoyed "punishing" Tom when he was late to the anniversary thing (because he was buying her something) and she was happy to punish him by making him run sprints. Last night, she showed how she truly does like being in charge and punishing him with pain or power or whatever she felt like. I am not interested in 50 shades of MAFS, and I do not like Camille. She has had a smirk of condescending attitude towards him since the beginning. If they do say yes on D Day, it will be because the show made it worth their while and they will be done by the Reunion. Tom will be fine and he will have lots of kinder options. Even though David is truly the liar in this last scenario, Michelle going on and on about cheating on her is making her look foolish to me. She doesn't want him, she will never say yes, so stop with the act. Don't like her. Madison is very masculine looking, despite her claims of being such a great beauty. Allen is finally starting to show his true feelings and I am so glad he didn't tell her that he loves her. He realizes she will never want him and will use any excuse she can find to keep her distance. She has ALWAYS been a party girl and she has been proud of it. The night they came back from the honeymoon, she ran off to party, so I don't know what her issue is now. Yes, I do - she wants to party without him. He will be fine. She needs to grow up. Don't like her. Em and Ick - are ridiculous. The more she tries to pretend to be offended by "her husband," the more ridiculous SHE looks. This is not a marriage, there is nothing there, and I don't think she likes him anymore than he likes her. She even said that if this was a date, there wouldn't be a second one. That said, there is no way she should sign his divorce papers on the spot. She needs her lawyer and the show's lawyers to get it settled. I just need her to stop calling him her husband. I hope they don't go to the retreat. Don't like either of them. Karla and Juan are just silly. He is just laughing it up and having fun the best way he can. He isn't interested in her and she just mopes and looks pathetic that he doesn't appreciate her beauty and magnificence. The weird woman was just bizarre. WHY would the show keep trying to force intimacy this season where they are doing their best not to kill each other??? And the fact that they are not required to stay together gives these couples no hope at all. I can watch them because they are too silly to have strong feelings about. I do hope we finally see something at the retreat that they have been hinting at all season and it better be worth it!

Kind of OT, but not sure where to post it - does anyone know what happened to the SalemSpectator.com site? It just disappeared and I am wondering if they changed their URL? Thanks for any help.

I agree with you, @Jodyj, 100%.

I hate it when they make the episodes sound like something is going to happen, and then it doesn't. If the heated argument is between Em and Ick, we have already seen it - more than once. And, we know that Michelle is going to take his lie and be so happy that for once, she is not the bad guy.

Yeah, I think I am out, too. I am not interested in watching the show next week and seeing how "fun and kinky" Camille is. And seeing Karla lay there while Juan smacks her with a rose. None of these people are physically interested in their spouses. I give them credit for not jumping into bed just because they are "married." @Jeanne222, the only couple who is having sex is Camille and Tom. I now get the impression that is why SHE got married - to have a constant source to let her express her desires. I still don't like her with Tom. He is gentle, she is not. Again, she is only shown to be interested in herself and wants him to make the compromises. If they say yes on D-Day, I am guessing they will be done before the Reunion. Or else, she will cheat on him. I am not seeing a great love there. Michelle is so determined to prove that David is lying, she is making herself look foolish. Being right is more important to her than having a caring husband. She hates him and won't even be in the same room with him unless they are filming, so why does she care what he does? She doesn't want him, but doesn't want anyone else to, either. Of course he was lying! And not well. I don't support cheating, but there is clearly nothing for him to be cheating on - there is no relationship. Just hostility. Madison isn't nice to Allen, either. She doesn't want him, so let him go. At least the descriptions of how many days have moved from Day XX of marriage to XX Days before Decision Day, which means it is coming to an end, hopefully. Karla just looks sad and pathetic. He isn't interested in her at all, and she just doesn't understand why. I am sure that when they were selected, they were intended to be the bombshell, hot and sexy couple. Which they would have been if there was even a spark of chemistry. I am truly tired of seeing the smug look on Emem's face as he talks at her. She can't possibly want him, so she needs to get in there and tell him to get out so he isn't just leaving her again. She doesn't look strong - she looks desperate. And NO ONE should be desperate for him. I wasn't nearly as impressed with the guest on Afterparty as I was last week with her husband. Next week, it will be back to 3 cast members - David, and I don't remember the others (Karla, maybe, and Madison?). ETA - PLEASE, no more sob stories. Or family crap. I don't care about these people and if they all have these back stories that show how broken they are, they shouldn't have been selected without completing therapy. This is not interesting or entertaining.

I also think that the "too drunk to drive" was a producer shenanigan because if he was truly too drunk, the producers would not have allowed him to drive, in case they would be liable. Agree that Madison only thinks of Allen as a friend and that's all he will ever,be, unless things go downhill and they end up not even liking each other. I just hope SOMETHING happens tonight, because all we have seen are the same old stories and disagreements, and the more they throw those teasers at us and then not deliver them, the less I am inclined to watch at all. It looks like tonight's episode is only 2 1/2 hours instead of 3 hours, like last week. I don't know what is getting cut - the show or the Afterparty.

I know there is something going on with Bonnie. I just read the summaries and with all the sounds "Bonnie" is making, it has to be that she is not Bonnie. So, it's either Hattie, or now I am thinking Adrienne? I really don't care and it is getting harder to even want to read the summaries any more with all the B&S BS. And the focus on other unlikeable or incapable characters/actors.

Technically, the only time the couples HAVE to be together is when they are filming, since we know that many of them often go to their own apartments/homes, so I don't think Emem is in any danger. But, I really didn't like how SHE initiated the request to have him move back in with her. Maybe she did it just to make him mad at her "aggressive behavior," but it would have been better for her to let him do the asking. He probably wouldn't have and then she would have been free. There is NO WAY she wants him and by acting like she is still trying makes her look bad, not him.

My favorite line of hers was when she "quit" her job because they mutually agreed that she "cannot be managed." Except, she said it like it was a good thing that working for someone was sucking out her creativity. She is my comic relief this season. She is just so flaky that no one can possibly take her seriously, especially Juan. We have had many people who spoke in trendy word salads, but I do think that she truly believes the nonsense she is spewing and truly doesn't understand why she isn't or won't be successful.

I agree that Juan is just humoring Karla. He doesn't want to be anywhere around her, once this is over. But, at least he gets to show his business acumen and expertise. She has NO IDEA what he does, but he does, "a lot of things and he types on his laptop like Thriller." When he tells her that she can do or be anything in the world, he is just playing her. Although, I have to give him credit for not sleeping with her. All along he has said that his goal was to just have fun, and now he is. I am sure that he was recruited for the show, since he seems to have no time to be in a relationship. I have seen speculation that it is Juan who gets cozy with Madison, so that might be interesting. It MIGHT be, if they would show us already!!!

I agree that some of the advice from the experts was good, however, they should never have pushed Ick-man to try to work things out with Emem. And after they said it would never work if they didn't live together, rather than see if Ick made a move, Emem jumped right in and asked him to move back in with her - again, being what she knows he thinks of as aggressive. I still don't get what she wants with him, other than she made a commitment and she won't let it go until the end. Madison is clearly a party girl and either wants a partying husband, or she is not ready to be married. She reminds me of that Virginia who used to stay out all night at her friend's house until Cal read her the riot act. She was quite a bit younger than her husband, Eric the pilot, too. Still not really caring for Camille, either. I want to see HER make a compromise for him, instead of just changing Tom. He is a wiling participant, but it just looks to be one-way. I am actually enjoying Juan and Karla the most because they are harmless and she is a flake. I would love to see her notes she took when he was trying to help her with a business plan. I wonder where she will go when this is over since she has no home.

Well, that was 3 hours I will never get back! 3 hours!!!! And I even stayed awake and saw the whole thing. None of the interesting things they have shown in "previews" were presented. The interactions were incredibly boring and the same. Every week, Michelle seems to get it that she has issues and then she is still the same. I did notice how different she is from the wedding video. She was outgoing and happy then. She is just miserable now. Here's a thought - let these people work individually with Dr. Pepper BEFORE they are matched since they are all pretty broken and seem to be shocked when Pepper shows them what has happened in their past that is screwing up this relationship. The problem is that they are so broken and unlikable that I really don't care about them (Michelle and Madison, specifically). The next three weeks is not sufficient time for these people to heal themselves enough to be able to work on a real relationship. On Afterparty, I usually hate it when they have a special guest from some fan podcast, but I really liked Joe. He was articulate, empathetic, kind, and offered great insights to Michelle, Allen, Ikechi, and Emem. I would love to see him again. I guess his wife will be the guest next week. I was happy to have him speak for us, the viewers and fans. I am happy to see that Allen is finally starting to get it that he is not with a woman who cares about him as a partner. He agrees that he is in the friend zone, so now he needs to move on. I kind of liked seeing Juan try to mentor Karla, who is totally clueless. She is not a business person and needs a man with a bankroll to let her play with her toys. If she was such a great Pilates instructor, why didn't SHE teach the session with Juan? Maybe NEXT week, we will get to something interesting? Or not. ETA - I am not a big fan of Emem, but what is she doing, taking that jerk back and subjecting herself to more mistreatment? I DID like how Pia and Cal made them realize their differences in that he is "artsy" and FEELS things and she is "science" and has to KNOW things, which is why she needs answers to her questions. They very succinctly pinpointed the differences. 1) then why were they matched without this insight, and 2)do either of them care enough to try to change?

For me, when I read that

There were many comments about this season being so delayed from the last one. I thought they were trying to fix it since they knew were heading in as bad a place as they were at the end of last horrible season. Maybe they fixed it the best they could, or figured that we had waited for so long, we would be happy with ANYTHING? That would be wrong and wrong.

@Crashcourse, that was my same reaction to hearing she was engaged. I think she must have known him before the show and then after she was matched with Ick-man, she decided she was better off on her own! Ick hates her because she isn't impressed with him or his condescending way.

That could be. I really think the whole culture issue and being Black enough was a producer interference to make them interesting. Now that it doesn't seem to be an issue anymore, they have moved on to the Camille wanting him to be more swag stories. I would just like to see a story where she likes him and treats him with respect instead of trying to change him or punish him for being late. I don't like seeing anyone be condescending towards a partner.