red12

Unfortunately, the cake pop/field trip stuff wasn't too far from real. Hopefully, it's changing as the economy requires both parents to have careers in order to maintain the upper level bougie lifestyle depicted in this episode. But, many times these types of organizations are vested in the recreation of the white American patriarchal ideal dipped in chocolate. In decades past, they were kept running by SAHMs more vested in appearances and giving their children access to the "right kinds of people" than their own stress levels. The men did almost nothing but, go to work and socialize / network together. Working moms and divorced women were definitely looked down upon when I was growing up in these circles. Speaking of, Junior is really missing a career opportunity. He would be an excellent wedding planner. Hell, he could also become a highly sought after nanny in L.A. if he put his mind to it.

That Easter service was totally believable to anyone who has attended one of these types of churches. From the shadow dancing to the suburban interpretations of "hip-hop" it was all realistic. I have actually seen reenactments of the crucifixion with an 8 ft cross and a man tied to it while "Via delarosa" was being sung. And Kirk Franklin's musical compositions have done more to make predominately white evangelical Christians feel hip than anything I can remember. "Stomp" was a particular favorite back in the day.

I have no problem with that rant as long as the citations are accurate. Police officers have decades of shows and movies upholding the image of their drive to protect others and right wrongs. This movie did next to nothing to change that.

Hmmm... I wondered from the beginning about the odd combo of Christian virgin waiting unsuccessfully for Mr. Right willing to go on a 2nd tier reality show and marry a stranger. Your comment could be part of the reasoning. If she and Keith had worked out, they probably would have needed a booking agent to arrange all of the churches, conferences and youth / young adult singles groups wanting to book them. She could have even started a "wife school" (Google/ Facebook it) to swindle desperate women out of money "training" them to be deserving of Chirstian wifehood. It actually speaks to Keith's character that he didn't take the easy route and stay with Iris and launch a gospel career from this platform. As it is Iris could still have a chance at an "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" / "Jesus is the Best Boyfriend" type of book and launch her wifely redemption story once she marries.

I haven't seen it mentioned and apologies if I missed it but, did anyone notice Jamie's expression when asked if he would have thought being matched with a virgin was a problem? He's totally the guy in high school telling everybody how he "scored" in an 80's coming of age movie.

True facts.

I have concerns about anyone who fast forwards straight to forgiveness without rounding all of the bases that include anger to get to the reconciliation of events and moving on. When I say anger, I don't mean throwing things or whatever but, at least a little indignation at being wronged. The fact that Amber sat on that couch and heard a man who had been inside of her multiple times while living together within a marriage say he knew within the first 15 minutes of meeting her, he wasn't interested made me pause the tv and take some breaths. I really hope she left the studio and got her therapist on speed dial because she is not ok. She also better have had a full STI panel run because that is the kind of man who will leave a girl a parting gift and not look back. I've said so much about Iris in previous threads, there's nothing left and I believe we all see what's up with her. Keith came out pretty well in this reunion so, my only admonishment is to stay away from Iris and be a ghost in the wind otherwise, he will be leading her on and risk getting into f*ckboi territory. Jamie & Beth are worrisome. I understand there are couples who thrive on each other's drama but, they are troubling individually and together. As someone else outlined, moving to the Bay Area with 3x the cost of living is not going to help. There are also a plethora of educated, adult, professional women there who will completely outshine Beth in the job market and socially. I don't have confidence her sense of self or maturity are ready for San Francisco. Greg & Deonna are what they are. He might get tired of their dynamic and she might just get better with time. They are a toss up to me.

Thanks qtype. One very small clarification, no God-fearing good girl would ever admit to believing she is more deserving of God's love for Jesus loves everyone. But, her favored daughter status does make her more deserving of God's blessings (goodies). I mean what kind of loving God would give all the good stuff to heathens and hoes to waste instead of his children?

So, I saw that "first look" they embedded in the "Couple's Couch" episode too. I agree Iris was angry. I think I understand but, from what I can tell, this appearance will do her no favors. Stable prospective mates will not be drawn to her after seeing this. 1. The lace front wig and make-up was excessive. I think in combination with the dress, she was trying to show she can be sexy but, I don't know that it worked. 2. I say this with all compassion but, I don't think Iris (or pastor cal) realize Keith has the right not to want her. Keith and anyone else have the right not to be with whomever they do not want to be with. He does not have the right to disrespect her or treat her poorly which he did not but, when you get right down to it, Iris is pissed because Keith no longer wanted to be married to her and she was there to put him on trial for that "crime". 3. Now I will speculate regarding what I think is partially the cause of Iris's feelings of being wronged by Keith. Based on my background in evangelical circles and experience with purity culture, I believe Iris has a hard time separating Keith, the human individual from what she believes to be a promise made to her by God and what she is owed for whatever she has experienced in life. - Part of why purity culture is dangerous is that it pushes the fantasy to women (mostly) that if you are pure, chaste, nice and surface level sweet, God will reward you with love from a husband and your dreams will come true. Church leadership and Christian profiteers looking to sell books, conferences and programs push this even though for most woman, the numbers are just not on their side in terms of finding similarly Christian, financially stable, non abusive husbands even if you don't adjust for racial preferences. - Frustration can set in if time passes and other women, who may be less worthy in your eyes, get the blessing (a husband) while you sit on the bench praying and waiting. - When a suitable man finally does arrive, it is hard to see him as an individual with free will and not morph him into the delivery vehicle for your promised fairy tale from Jesus. So, the same way men can be accused of objectifying women into body parts, women raised in this environment run the risk of objectifying men into blessing delivery services. Then if the man exhibits resistance to the pace of the dating relationship or in this case wants to break up, he is seen as the thing holding back the woman's blessing not just a relationship that didn't work out. That's where the anger and frustration can cause the woman to lash out and sincerely believe herself to have been wronged by the desired man. Now, where I take issue with Keith is that he should not be in contact with Iris. She is currently in too fragile of a state and any positive interaction will be seen as a signal that the marriage can be salvaged and "God's will" will prevail after all. I'm not saying she will always be this fragile but, dude needs to step up or get out because nothing good can come of him seeming indecisive about ending things.

I agree with you and the comparison to "Good Boys" is apt. It reminded me a lot of my friends and I WAAAAAYYYY back in the 90's. We may not have been accurate about the specifics of sex acts and accessories but, we did have sense and a sense of humor. Iris appeared to be missing those qualities even though her mom had them. The presentation of her mom and her guidance on the show made me wonder even more about what kind of trash messaging Iris must have grown up with from her dad and church family. There is the idea that she used on "Unfiltered" that she was uncomfortable with sex stuff on camera because she works with children. But, in that case, don't volunteer for a reality show where you might want to engage in sex. Also, Deonna and Greg (and other couples previously) engaged in marital relations without being overexposed or subjecting themselves to professional embarrassment so, I find that rationalization less convincing than she thinks. I do wish the producers had spent more time on Keith in the relationship though because he might really have some odd ways that we will never know because their entire storyboard for this couple was about virginity. With all do respect, if his grandmother had not passed away, he would be damn near a stranger. I bet we wouldn't even know how terrible Jamie is if he had been matched with Iris because the team would have spent the whole time obsessed with her virginity. Oh, and "Yes" to the person who said F-you to Pastor Cal. My husband and I both peeped the gaslighting job he attempted on Keith when they met privately in an earlier episode. We thought that episode was when Keith officially left the building and probably wasn't coming back mentally. It was terrible and honestly unethical if that man actually possesses any type of professional licensure. Then telling Iris how she is basically perfect during the hug in last night's episode, SMDH.

Can Kate discover the existence of Lizzo this year? A girls trip to a concert and we see Kate surrounded by other women living their best lives and she becomes forced to get hers going. Backup singing gig? Songwriting? I want something else from Kate than what the writers have been giving.

Thank you for these truths. I thought D'Andra was an asshole already. Now you tell me this bish is counting money left by a man who isn't even her father?! Oh hell no. She needs to have several seats and not even next to dumb Tori because D'Andra is older and not even a tad bit wiser. All of us knew that business couldn't have been making any money from the first scene of the show with D and her mom. I live in Dallas and I nor anyone I know has ever heard of it, let alone used it. What kind of market and data analytics could D'Andra possibly have and not know the market for it's product is literally dying of natural causes everyday? Now, do I actually put it past momma D to think "You know what? I have 10 years left and I don't want to spend them on this. I will go out on top and give this bish what she thinks she wants." Absolutely not. I think she was going to wring as much attention and free publicity out of this situation as possible and then retire. D'Andra needs to stop her belly aching and be the amazing business woman she has been trying to convince us she is and right the ship. For all the bragging about superior breeding and class these Southern, "rich" Bravoleberities do, it's funny how they never actually produce anything superior.

Ouch! May whoever said that hurtful sh*t to you live eternally with an unreachable popcorn hull stuck between their teeth.

This is a quality, factual read. Don't forget he also has no job so, I don't understand why he can't get the alone time he needs during the day. Considering starting the car detail business obviously isn't taking up that much time.

The fact that anyone allows Shep to refer to them as trash is mind boggling to me. He is the patron saint of 21st century "white trash". He has had every advantage and managed to accomplish the sum total of nothing. He is unemployable other than a reality show. He is useless in every practical way and contributes nothing to his community or humanity in general. Guys like him have to stay in insulated Southern cities like Charleston because they cannot survive in an larger environment with uncontrolled competition. A first generation college graduate would cut Shep down to the bone in almost any competition (academic or otherwise). He knows that if the playing field were to be truly level, he would be stampeded. That's why he is so vested in trying to enforce gender and class norms from 1931. He is a young Thomas without a drug problem or senate seat and that ain't good. I am also disgusted at the enablers around him who allow him to coast on "charm" and what some categorize as good looks. They need to stop tiptoeing around him and listening to this asshole. All of these people are too old for this bullshit and I can't wait for the rest of the US to completely pass them by as they stand on the porches of broken down mansions with no more workers to do all of the maintenance work for them.

Was I the only one wondering if Gideon might be old enough to be behind the blackmail?

I grew up in evangelical christianity and I guarantee Jesse could rebound. There would be a few people who really are practicing Christianity for spiritual betterment who would leave the church but, many, many people would remain loyal to the Gemstones; especially since Dr. Big Daddy Gemstone appears to be relatively faithful and dedicated (so far). Even in the '80's and '90's the Power Team (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=power+team+christian+ministry) made a lot of money regaling Christian audiences with their pasts as steroid and cocaine addicted bodybuilders before "getting saved" and becoming upright men of God. Nothing new under the sun. The writers have to be really careful with the blackmail storyline in this day and age when everyone knows how basically anyone powerful can recover from virtually anything. I peeped that too Bilgistic. Speaking to the redemption of these guys, you know Jim is remarried and currently broadcasting on Christian tv. His son is a minister as well but, more lowkey and hipster type instead of megachurch.

If Iris had takers in this category, she wouldn't be on the show. I do appreciate that Dr. V called Iris on the fact that one can, in fact change their virgin status if they want. She keeps depicting her virginity as an essential feature of her personal make-up like eyes and fingers. The problem with her being with another virgin who is as naive as she portrays herself is he wouldn't know where to begin to try and please her and she can't tell him what to try. Keith is absolutely in an unwinnable game here and I feel for him. If he appears to opt out of the virginity gauntlet, he's not committed. If he has sex with Iris and still does not want to remain with her, he's an asshole who "took" her precious gift.

Last night Elizabeth's behavior and words reiterated my observation during the "vanilla sex" episode that she is limited in vocabulary and possibly reasoning ability. I don't think she actually understands how to say "I need you to not charge into a room after me because it makes me feel stressed and anxious." instead of "Stop acting crazy!". So, when Jamie and his weird stare tell her he feels insulted, she's like "okay, don't be out of control." Inability to accept responsibility plus, limited vocabulary and emotional intelligence are a bad combo for these two.

Deonna is delusional. She is making a classic mistake of a woman who is used to being pursued by a specific man. He.will.get.tired. She is also underestimating the amount of women who are waiting for him to re-enter the wild and are ready to provide the emotional interaction he wants. She needs a really good girlfriend equal to Greg's friend who will lay it out for her. Deonna, you in danger girl.

I understand. My intention is not to say I agree with people who have this issue but, to talk about something I know to exist even though it sounds off to most in 2019. There are variations and degrees of conservatism just as there are in fetishes and other more exploratory modes of expression. We are all on this rock together and it's helpful to know none of us are alone no matter how different we feel.

I agree that it is for many. But, in conservative and some religious circles, it is depicted as less intimate and dehumanizing because of the lack of face to face contact. It can be difficult to grasp this thinking if you have not been immersed in it. But, it exists. I have even heard of couples where there had to be a compromise to add a hand mirror to add the element of facial contact for the reluctant, more shame based partner to feel comfortable enjoying this position.

SnarkEnthusiest, I appreciate your perspective. I grew up in an environment that preached a lot of sexual conservatism (even though, plenty of folks were not living it). But, I am very inquisitive so, I read a lot of books (I'm old) before engaging in sex myself. Something I read is that "doggy style" was actually a basic, normal, go- to position for most cultures until Christian missionaries started spreading the word that it was animalistic, ungodly and somehow shameful. Hence the names and connotations of what Western culture considers "normal" face-to-face positioning vs. anything else. If you think about the fact that most people would have learned about the act from watching animals in the wild or a farm, not sitting in a classroom or watching tv, it makes sense too. I don't know if that little tidbit helps in any way, but I thought I would share. Also, basic definitely has it's place in life and should be appreciated. 😉

"Girl you know I, I, I..."😊

So, we were on my couch singing...