Tatum

I totally agree with this. Michael C. Hall can be very charismatic, especially on the original run. What I liked about Dexter was that he was mild mannered in general, and it came off a lot more genuine than Jim. I would not watch any show solely about Harrison. Especially not if Audrey and Angela are part of the cast. Well, maybe Angela, but only so I can make fun of her here.

This subplot has been so poorly done. It has never even been stated as to whether these are local Iron Lake girls or girls from neighboring towns (one would assume they couldn't all be from one town or as pointed out in an earlier thread, FBI would be all over this). I think the writers are copying numerous other book/movie/TV plots where the killer targets prostitutes/runaways/addicts- basically people who won't be missed, or won't go to the cops if they do manage to get away, but never really fleshed out how exactly Angela, and only Angela (as far as law enforcement) came to know of their existence. Sure, you go to some stores and they have large collages of missing kids, but these are all different ages, all different walks of life, and most importantly, all different last seen locations, and they are compiled from many different sources. Hell, it's not even been made clear if these women have actually been reported missing or if any of the families are in any kind of contact with the PD as far as updates. Podcast Girl was the only one to even do anything to try and find them. I believe the extent of Angela's investigation has been to wave at them while ranting at people about how no one cares about them and no one is looking for them. (Even though she is hardly pounding the pavement herself). I think the missing girls has largely been a plot device to show that Angela Really Cares. (Except when it pertains to actually doing something useful). That's pretty dumb. I can't think of any logical explanation for this one. The shot to the back is really an execution, not a hunt. Also unclear why Kurt gives some of the women a chance to get away (like Chloe, when he gave her $80 to go back home, while the first girl didn't get that chance- she was offered a room her first night in Iron Lake). Also, why was the first girl poisoned and then kept for several days, while Chloe was not poisoned and executed almost immediately?

really???? Ugh. That is not what I was expecting when I started watching this show. And I think that’s kind of frustrating to allude to something like that in the first scenes of the pilot episode when your plan is the spoiler tagged info.

I agree. There may be too much material for three more episodes, but Lost definitely started to feel like they were making up stuff as they went along and retconning some earlier episodes. And with the way viewers jump on every little thing on this series, the writers won't be able to get away with much. Plus, if they just end season 1 the way they would a normal episode, that would be super annoying. ETA: did I mishear it, or did Shauna say Jeff was more sentimental than she was (in regards to the bag she brought)? If so, how freaking callous. Even if Shauna thought Jeff wouldn't miss it, there was nothing else she could have used? No old purse or backpack or gym bag?

I wish they would give us some idea of the time. I am thinking we have to at least be into July by now, maybe even August. I wonder if the actress playing young Shauna had to work with Melanie Lynskey at all or production just got really lucky. But young Shauna mirrors Adult Shauna really well with the speaking patterns and the facial expressions. I am pretty pissed that someone as shrewd as Shauna got all turned on by aggressive Adam. She was absolutely right- showing up at her house uninvited and waiting for her to come home isn't a grand, romantic gesture- it's control, and she should not indulge it one bit. She seemed more pissed he was just indiscreet though. I really thought Van was going to make it out of there and show up as an adult. I figured if they needed bodies they'd go after the filler girls first. I guess they subscribe more to the Walking Dead/Games of Thrones mindset- no one is safe. Which is more realistic (hate when drama/crime shows dramatically say, SOMEONE. WILL. DIE. and then the only one they kill off is someone who had like 2 scenes and was likely only introduced to be the sacrificial lamb). But again, it sucks when you're invested in a character that is killed off.

Oh, well they certainly could have a plan. But I think they only found out they were getting a second season a few weeks ago. I guess they could have just gone ahead and left questions unanswered in the first season and if they didn't get a second season, oh well.

But they originally wrote this as a limited series, correct? I mean, if they didn't know they'd get renewed they probably planned to wrap everything up in one season.

This is what I can't figure out. The statute of limitations for everything but murder would have passed a long time ago. And a murder charge would never stick- there is likely no evidence left and whatever was there has been compromised for years. I can see why Taissa cares, since by running for office even accusations would ruin her, but I don't see why Natalie cares, enough to sell the only thing in the world she has. That said, the conversation in the car- (speak for yourself, Natalie, in regards to doing things worse than murder) was interesting. Not sure if that was a comment that they haven't committed murder or that they haven't committed worse than murder. Or maybe they just don't consider whatever they did to be worse than murder? Argh. It's like for every possible clue there is a counter-clue. Perhaps that is why the blackmail was only $50K? Anything more than that and the women might have just thrown up their hands and let the chips fall where they may. I am still surprised they paid it at all. Maybe $10K. And why did they keep the bills wrapped together? Why not just shove all the bills in loose? That would have slowed the man down or forced him to take the whole bag with everything stuffed in it. Jeff as the blackmailer makes sense because the guy was kind of bumbling, but he did clock Taissa in the face which seems unlike Jeff and also I don't think Jeff would have been smart enough to look for a tracker. I agree with the posters saying the 2021 scenes are getting painfully boring. Misty is still a trip to watch but I am beyond bored with Taissa and her political career and exasperated wife, Shauna and her love triangle, and Natalie and the cop. I am a little frustrated with the pacing of the show now. They still have SO MUCH to cover to explain how the girls devolved into ritualistic human sacrifice. I mean, survival is one thing, but they don't have to make a damn dinner party out of it. It seems like episodes 4 and 5 kind of lagged and now they are going to have to shove a lot into the remaining episodes.

Frightfully clever of Caldwell to actually install someone in the hotel under Matt's name (vs just making the reservation and letting the no show fee come up on his credit card)...too bad he didn't consider that the one time Angela actually does her job, she really goes above and beyond.

For Angela, or for Dexter? For Dexter, wasn't it that he was following the podcast girl and thought the way Caldwell was acting was textbook predator behavior? He was suspicious of Caldwell but I don't think he thought Caldwell was murdering women until he followed them and busted into the abandoned cabin. Angela is super contrived, that's for sure. I get it, she's pissed she had 60 civilian volunteers out in the middle of winter looking for Matt, and she hears he's been holed up in a 5 star hotel dodging her calls. I'd be pissed too. But, legally speaking, is Matt obligated to call her? The shooting of the white buck is not her jurisdiction. The attack on Matt and his blood being found on the scene might warrant a few questions, but as far as Angela knows, he's the victim. Are victims legally required to cooperate with police? You'd think most people in Angela's shoes would just shrug and say what a dick, and move on. But Angela drives to NYC to confront him, then strong arms the hotel clerk into showing security footage (who checks out at the front desk anymore???), thus confirming this is a large conspiracy started by Kurt. Then she manages to recall a conversation she had with Kurt which leads her to conclude he obviously wanted to avoid the PD searching the caves. I went back and watched the scene where she tells him they are searching the caves, and he does express surprise she thinks Matt could be out that far, but nothing about his reaction was over the top or something that would really stick in your mind. So, Angela is basically naturally suspicious and has a great memory when the storyline warrants it, and completely oblivious and indiscreet when the storyline warrants that as well.

OK.

I am sure this is a big part of why Beth is the way she is, but I don't think she's angry at John. She blames herself and feels unworthy of love and forgiveness and she thinks John is some kind of saint for forgiving her anyways. When really, what John should have done is reassured her that he did not blame her, that it wasn't her fault, and it was just an unforeseen tragedy that could have happened to anyone. And not to victim blame, but if Beth was so uncomfortable and nervous on a horse, perhaps it wasn't brilliant of Evelyn to force her to ride one and insist on going so far from the house in an area Beth didn't know and had to navigate while traumatized. But otherwise, yes, I think you are right, sitting at that table is a constant reopening of the wound for Beth. Would be nice if she would just maturely ask if they could rearrange their dinner setup but John would probably balk.

The link Bitter Apple posted shows 3-4 separate screen shots and the last one is movie characters Jackie would be (either because she is similar to them or wants to be them, is not clear). Cher from Clueless, Mia from Pulp Fiction, and Vada from My Girl are all before 1996. Sydney from Scream is close- pretty sure the movie was released in late 96 though. Rose from Titanic was from 1997, Torrance from Bring it On was 2000. Who am I forgetting? About half the list referenced movie characters from movies released after the summer of 1996. ETA: duh Tatum, I talked about it on the previous page. Angela from American Beauty and Kat from 10 Things I Hate About You, and both were in 1999 I think. ETA again: totally OT, but who were the Hollywood It girls of 1996? It would be several years before the WB actresses and Jennifer Love Hewitt were in every teen movie. I remember Claire Danes and Winona Ryder were kind of popular, but I will admit I never cared for either of them. I think Angelina Jolie was popular back then. Most of the Hollywood heavy hitters though were older (by older I mean not teenagers) actresses at the time, I think.

Kurt said something like, I thought we were going to be friends when we first met, or something to that effect. He said something similar about Harrison, but I can't remember what. It was either in this episode or the one right before it. It's ambiguous (maybe he just thought Jim Lindsay was a happening kind of guy), but that is what I think we are supposed to take from that conversation. As far as Kurt's motivation- remember he did give Chloe $80 to go home, which she spent on a coat. right??? I know Kurt has never used the incinerator for his victims (that we know of), but maybe Chief Moron could consider that's how so many young girls disappear without a trace?

I will have to go back and look at some point. I know in Dollhouse there was a girl with stringy, chin length light brown hair that was much darker at the roots carrying Ben's stretcher to the lake- she maybe could be considered a dark blond? Is that the one you saw? I don't recall another redhead or another dark skinned girl that wasn't Akilah but there certainly could be. The shot I froze was them all running to the lake and maybe I didn't pause it in time to get everyone. That's a lot of survivors still left- this season is 10 episodes, correct? I think from the flashbacks were are now about 8-10 weeks in. If they intended to tell the full story of what happened in the wilderness all in this season they are going to have to pack a lot into the next 4 episodes. I wonder if a lot of people die all at once or are picked off one at a time? Or perhaps only a few die and the group splits into two camps?

Taylor Sheridan wrote Wind River, which I thought was very good. It doesn't even seem like the same writer now. I think this was a nice callback to a scene from either season 2 or 3 where Beth goes on a tirade, throws down her napkin, and flounces off, and Kayce and John kind of snicker and John says something like, has she ever made it through a full meal? Beth has said before she hates sitting at the dinner table because it's too much of a reminder of all they've lost. And it's pretty in character for Beth that if she doesn't like something, she has to ruin it for everyone else as well.

Bite your tongue! In the mid 1990s I remember totally coveting this white wicker bedroom set from Pier One and my mom was like nope. I freeze framed and counted during the Dollhouse, which I think was the only shot wide enough that included everyone. Yes, you can argue I have too much time on my hands. It is very unusual for me to watch a series in real time. I counted 16 people, including Travis, Javi, and coach Ben. There are the four known survivors, the four that don't have adult counterparts but regularly have speaking lines- Van, Jackie, Lottie, and Laura Lee- the JV girl who befriended Taissa and knows about poisonous flowers and mushrooms, the snotty pigtailed girl who complains about everything, one girl who is very skinny and has dark roots, one girl who is heavier and has short hair, and one girl I have not identified. The last three have not had any lines, I don't think. Pigtail Girl is probably going to bite it soon. I don't think the number of survivors has increased, they just are very rarely all in one shot together. Oh, I have no doubt things will unfold and be more or less spoon fed to viewers, I think some people just like to look for hints and stay ahead of the curve. If for example, Jackie does make it back to NJ alive, that will obviously play out in an episode. I don't know if the showrunners are intentionally dropping easter eggs for eagle eyed viewers, or if they just made a boo boo. But the nice thing is, we will all find out, probably in 4 weeks :). Really, why didn't they just have Jackie write, Dylan McKay forever, in her diary. Most of us 90s gals could relate.

That's what I thought! I was sure Shauna got a postcard.

Well...I feel like a bonehead. Although not as much as Angela should feel like one :). OK, the whole town getting ashed on actually makes more sense for how Kurt figured out Matt was in the incinerator, but you're right, does nothing to tie Dexter as the culprit. That said, I don't think it's totally crazy that Kurt suspected Dexter. As he said before, he knew something was off about Dexter. I think we are just going to have to accept that in the Dexter canon, serial killers can identify each other. Kurt may not have known what Dexter was in his former life, but he knew there was something off about him and Dexter has been on Kurt's radar since he arrived. Further, Dexter does live near where Matt was last seen, and he is known for taking (armed) walks around the woods where Kurt knows Matt was attacked. (As far as how Kurt knows this, it really wouldn't surprise me at this point if Angela had said, well Dexter takes walks all along the forest every day, and he said he didn't see anything. Good thing he takes a rifle with him, eh?). None of that would hold up in a court of law, but Kurt isn't a prosecutor and he's not planning on arresting Dexter. He has been fishing when talking to Dexter and Dexter has realized this, confirmed in his voiceovers. I don't know if Kurt knew for sure that Dexter had incinerated Matt and may have flaunted the unmelted titanium in his face to see what kind of reaction Dexter would have- guilt, anger, or total confusion. Dexter didn't have much of a reaction, but enough of one to probably confirm in Kurt's mind that Dexter did do it. And can I just say this again, how freaking DUMB is Angela? You have a missing man, a slew of missing girls last seen in Iron Lake, and you have a public access incinerator and when the whole town is covered in ash, you don't think to maybe, I don't know, check it out? Or maybe, like, set up security cameras around the incinerator? Or like, close off the public access part?

Not exactly. As I recall, she left him because it was clear he was going back to his dad with his tail between his legs. That was when John and Beth were masterminding his opponents campaign. Jamie was pretty much sunk but the redhead wanted him to keep going. After Jamie killed the reporter she showed up again and accused him of being involved, which Jamie very weakly and unconvincingly denied. At that point, she more or less shrugged it off and said if he wanted to be a part of her life and their baby’s life he would have to learn to stand up to John. That was how she revealed she was pregnant and then she sashayed off until now. I don’t think she’s a straight up gold digger because it was stated in an early episode she comes from money and Jamie made a good living even as daddy’s legal lapdog. She wants the power and the status and John is in her way. eta: her main concern in confronting Jamie about the dead reporter was whether SHE- as a witness- was also in a danger. I do not believe she is one bit concerned about the morality of Jamie. I’m of two minds about this. On the one hand, John laid out hundreds of thousands of dollars for medical treatment and Jimmy got hurt off the clock so he was under no obligation to do so. On the other hand, Jimmy didn’t ask for his help and was told after the fact that he basically owed it to John and had no real say in the matter. John can be very generous- but always only on his terms.

Not really the point of your post, but just curious- has it been stated how Nat came to own the car?

I think Rita's mother was alive- she came down to visit during season 1 or 2 and defended the Bay Harbor butcher to Rita. I don't think Rita was that close to her though. Her two older kids lived with their paternal grandparents. Dexter told Hannah to get in touch with him if Harrison showed a dark side, and evidently gave her a way to do so, so I can't believe she wouldn't reach out to him if she knew she was dying. But I also can't see Harrison killing her- they appear to want to keep him somewhat redeemable and having him kill the person who volunteered to look after him after he had no one else and nowhere else to go seems like a pretty one note villain. Even if he found out she was a murderer too, she was the only caregiver he had from ages 6-13. And also call BS on Harrison remembering Trinity.

Interesting! Although Jackie has the duck lips plus the peace sign. Yeesh. I can't tell if he looks older. I recall the longer bleached hair for guys was popular throughout the 90s- the frosted spiked tips is more what I think of when I think late 90s boy hairstyles. Jeff is channeling Zach Morris for sure in that pic. It could just be a mistake, but such a weird one to make. Someone had to compile that list- they didn't think to check release dates? Also, I think the main writers are around the ages of the main characters and probably remember when these movies came out. Sure, they could just be thinking, who's really going to look, but as long as you have to do it anyways, why not do it accurately? I mean, it would be one thing if Jackie and Shauna were in a flashback and something was in the background that wouldn't have been around in 1996, then I might argue that a set designer just made an oopsy. But to take the time to make a diary page (even one you assume no viewer is actually going to see) and make it incorrect is weird. But not impossible. If it is a clue, it is indeed an insanely subtle one. ETA: went back and watched the brunch scene again to see if there were any clues to pick up about when Jeff last saw Jackie, and there really aren't any. But oh man, the look on Mama Taylor's face when Jeff says that Shauna got into Brown. That probably pissed off Mama more than Jeff's admission that he was sleeping with Shauna while dating Jackie.

I am a little worried about that as well. I would assume all episodes were filmed and can't be changed at this point, but you never know. I saw an article that the actress playing teen Jackie is signed on for season 2. That makes me a little nervous that they might try and stretch out the storyline but she could also be a continued presence in adult Shauna's life. I really don't care for season ending cliffhangers either.

That's a good point, but not only is the writing something a 20-21 year old wouldn't write, it's not really something I think an 18 year old would write either. It seems more in line with a 12-13 year old writing. You'd think an 18 year old would be writing about her boyfriend, her friends, her college plans, her parents, etc. I suppose given that Shauna's flashback was probably them as freshman, it could be around that time, but then the list would be even further off time wise. They also could have just shown Shauna flipping through the diary while looking nostalgic, I mean nothing she read really advanced the story line. It seems really deliberate to have them zoom in on a series of lists Jackie ostensibly kept. Shauna as the real author is interesting, but the cutesy-ness of the pages (with popcorn drawings and multi colored coded lists) just seems very at odds with her personality and if she's trying to replicate Jackie...she's making her look pretty vapid. It's not exactly a flattering imitation. eta: Reddit suggested Jackie had extreme emotional regression due to stress/trauma, but I don't think there's going to be enough episodes left for them to work that in. I know there is a season 2 slated now, but they wrote this season already, correct?