Tatum

Yeah she's really doing herself no favors here. Although now that I think about it- the peace officer wasn't coming at her, was he? Wasn't he trying to subdue a fellow protestor? Plus, she threw a rock at Kayce, and no one put her up to doing that. Of all the shitty things Beth has done, this isn't even top 10. It's not like Beth could have known life imprisonment would be on the table and even if she did, Summer still chose to assault someone twice, one of which could have been pretty dangerous, and she shrugged it off both times. John's anger at her is way over the top. Summer has been in complete control of her own decisions and she chose badly. It wasn't like Beth framed her or lied to her.

Yeah, therapy for Beth would be useless. She would never listen and she would rather score points off the therapist than actually work to feel better. She would try and psycho-analyze the therapist as much as she does with everyone else and in Sheridan-verse, she would totally get the better of him/her. Honestly her dad cutting her off would probably help her the most because she wouldn't be always bashing her face in the wall trying to prove how much she loves him and get his approval. Sure, she'd still be a total bitch, but not one so wrapped up in a futile goal.

Oh, I missed that. But how did Tai have the token? Was there a scene where Van gave it to her?

She is right, but the journey could still be pretty perilous, as they figured it out. It's a no win situation for any of them. The remaining girls have shelter but no food. If I were there I would probably go with Taissa, but the first night I had to sleep on the open ground with howling wolves in the background I would have freaked the fuck out. I don't understand why Van died, and not one of the other girls. Didn't Lottie specifically give it to her to keep her safe? I mean, Lottie said she just had a feeling it would keep Van safe, and they have made a point of showing that Lottie's feelings come true, yet the one casualty is the girl who received what Lottie thought was a safety token. Weird.

I often find myself wishing Beth would get taken down a peg or two, but John's method was unconscionable. Although it actually is fitting for him- John is very kind and generous- when you do things his way. And only his way. Once you don't, you're out. I don't think he really wants Beth to move out, I think he was using his standard operating procedure to keep Beth in line. Do what Daddy says, or Daddy won't love you. And even though I just said Beth needs to be taken down a peg, there is little anyone besides John could ever say that would hurt her more than she hurts herself on a daily basis. Beth clearly hates herself and sees John as her salvation. And John is such a hypocrite. No more collateral damage? Like John has ever given a shit about the number of people who were killed simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time when one of John's enemies opened fire. Or blew up their buildings. Or sent their goons in to beat everyone in the building to death. Sure, John could say he didn't start shooting, or blow anything up. or beat any innocent person, but the Duttons have employed a lot of people who have not lived to tell the tale, and John was pretty callous about the whole thing. Hey John, remember when Beth was crying about her assistant getting killed, and how she was going to tell his parents and how she was going to answer when they asked her how this happened, and you said, who cares? You're fine. But I guess you weren't fucking him. And really Summer? Whining, Beth told me to? At the risk of sounding like a 1990s teacher, if Beth told you to jump off a bridge, would you? You're an adult. Act like it. If you want to be a martyr, realize...you're going to be a martyr. I liked Rip gleefully exiting the room with Carter, but from the look on his face later, he's going to be pissed that Beth unloaded her feelings to Walker, and will probably take it out on Walker. Also, Carter is really getting on my nerves. That kid actor has been in lots of stuff recently and normally I don't mind him, but I just don't care for Carter's character and I don't this actor is the right one to pull it off. ETA: Also John can fuck off with his disapproval of the new sheriff in town. Just because someone is going to hold you accountable, John, and won't ask you permission before he wipes his own ass, doesn't mean he is a bad person or deserves your contempt. And you didn't even like the old sheriff until he became your sycophant, then all the sudden he is considered big shoes to fill? Classic John and his God complex, where obedience to him should be above any law or personal moral/ethics code.

I've been watching lots of old seasons since re-signing up for Paramount Plus, and these people are still infuriating. The misogyny is just so awful, and these are from seasons in 2013 and beyond, so there really is NO excuse for it. Production absolutely egged these guys on, and the women were no better. One of the Rivals 2 episodes had a trivia challenge where the questions were contestant based, and the guys got asked who their (male) partner would consider to be the trashiest girl there. Like, why? Only CT refused to answer, but it was more to not alienate any of the women than honestly being gentlemanly. And speaking of CT, his treatment of Anastasia was so despicable. He came right out and laughed to everyone about how he was using her to make Diem jealous. Anastasia was rightfully hurt and upset and CT mocked her to her face and refused to take any responsibility for how hurt and angry Anastasia was. I never thought he was particularly kind to anyone but a handful of people on the Challenge but this was really low even for him. And of course all the girls are laughing about stupid, slutty Anastasia really thinking CT cared about her. As if ALL of those girls hadn't been in the exact same position in previous shows. Watching Free Agents and Nany deserves a smack in the face for saying that she doesn't want Dustin to hook up with Emilee because he deserves better than "some slut". Dustin was involved in porn but okay, I guess it's cool because he's not a woman. It's amazing how you can be the cruelest person on this show but if you're not a woman who dared to have sex (or anything close) while filming it's no big deal. And instead of banding together and calling these guys out on their hypocrisy, they all turn on each other in their desire to be cool with the guys mocking them. And I am SO over these phrases: "Have my back" in any iteration- can these idiots not think of a single other way to say that someone is not voting the way they want them to vote? "There's a target on my back" "No one deserves to be here more than me"- if you're invited, you all deserve to be here the same amount "I'm coming for you/you've woken a sleeping bear/ some other false bravado that is almost always untrue

I do think he executed Chloe more quickly due to her taking off her shirt, but I am not sure why he gave up the pretense of this being a safe place for her so quickly. I did though, get the impression that Chloe wasn't negotiating- she was planning to lure him in and then try to attack him. It was a long shot, but she had nothing to lose. How freaking naive must that first girl have been? He offers her a place to stay and then drops off chocolates and champagne while she's showering? What I can't remember (and maybe they didn't show it) was whether or not the doorknob was missing at that point. I suppose it didn't really matter though since he likely could have stopped her either way. But it does seem to be important to him that the girl (or Harrison) likes him and considers him a personal savior/hero. Totally unrelated, but are we ever going to find out more why Harrison did what he did to Ethan? Or have the writers retconned the whole thing so that Harrison was telling the truth all along? The reason I ask is when Harrison is letting himself get hit by the balls, he is flashing back to angrily asking Dexter if Dexter is calling him a liar. Uh, you were lying, Harrison! You told a stupid lie and you got caught. You don't get to be mad or hurt someone doesn't believe you when you're caught in a lie.

I totally agree with this. Michael C. Hall can be very charismatic, especially on the original run. What I liked about Dexter was that he was mild mannered in general, and it came off a lot more genuine than Jim. I would not watch any show solely about Harrison. Especially not if Audrey and Angela are part of the cast. Well, maybe Angela, but only so I can make fun of her here.

This subplot has been so poorly done. It has never even been stated as to whether these are local Iron Lake girls or girls from neighboring towns (one would assume they couldn't all be from one town or as pointed out in an earlier thread, FBI would be all over this). I think the writers are copying numerous other book/movie/TV plots where the killer targets prostitutes/runaways/addicts- basically people who won't be missed, or won't go to the cops if they do manage to get away, but never really fleshed out how exactly Angela, and only Angela (as far as law enforcement) came to know of their existence. Sure, you go to some stores and they have large collages of missing kids, but these are all different ages, all different walks of life, and most importantly, all different last seen locations, and they are compiled from many different sources. Hell, it's not even been made clear if these women have actually been reported missing or if any of the families are in any kind of contact with the PD as far as updates. Podcast Girl was the only one to even do anything to try and find them. I believe the extent of Angela's investigation has been to wave at them while ranting at people about how no one cares about them and no one is looking for them. (Even though she is hardly pounding the pavement herself). I think the missing girls has largely been a plot device to show that Angela Really Cares. (Except when it pertains to actually doing something useful). That's pretty dumb. I can't think of any logical explanation for this one. The shot to the back is really an execution, not a hunt. Also unclear why Kurt gives some of the women a chance to get away (like Chloe, when he gave her $80 to go back home, while the first girl didn't get that chance- she was offered a room her first night in Iron Lake). Also, why was the first girl poisoned and then kept for several days, while Chloe was not poisoned and executed almost immediately?

really???? Ugh. That is not what I was expecting when I started watching this show. And I think that’s kind of frustrating to allude to something like that in the first scenes of the pilot episode when your plan is the spoiler tagged info.

I agree. There may be too much material for three more episodes, but Lost definitely started to feel like they were making up stuff as they went along and retconning some earlier episodes. And with the way viewers jump on every little thing on this series, the writers won't be able to get away with much. Plus, if they just end season 1 the way they would a normal episode, that would be super annoying. ETA: did I mishear it, or did Shauna say Jeff was more sentimental than she was (in regards to the bag she brought)? If so, how freaking callous. Even if Shauna thought Jeff wouldn't miss it, there was nothing else she could have used? No old purse or backpack or gym bag?

I wish they would give us some idea of the time. I am thinking we have to at least be into July by now, maybe even August. I wonder if the actress playing young Shauna had to work with Melanie Lynskey at all or production just got really lucky. But young Shauna mirrors Adult Shauna really well with the speaking patterns and the facial expressions. I am pretty pissed that someone as shrewd as Shauna got all turned on by aggressive Adam. She was absolutely right- showing up at her house uninvited and waiting for her to come home isn't a grand, romantic gesture- it's control, and she should not indulge it one bit. She seemed more pissed he was just indiscreet though. I really thought Van was going to make it out of there and show up as an adult. I figured if they needed bodies they'd go after the filler girls first. I guess they subscribe more to the Walking Dead/Games of Thrones mindset- no one is safe. Which is more realistic (hate when drama/crime shows dramatically say, SOMEONE. WILL. DIE. and then the only one they kill off is someone who had like 2 scenes and was likely only introduced to be the sacrificial lamb). But again, it sucks when you're invested in a character that is killed off.

Oh, well they certainly could have a plan. But I think they only found out they were getting a second season a few weeks ago. I guess they could have just gone ahead and left questions unanswered in the first season and if they didn't get a second season, oh well.

But they originally wrote this as a limited series, correct? I mean, if they didn't know they'd get renewed they probably planned to wrap everything up in one season.

This is what I can't figure out. The statute of limitations for everything but murder would have passed a long time ago. And a murder charge would never stick- there is likely no evidence left and whatever was there has been compromised for years. I can see why Taissa cares, since by running for office even accusations would ruin her, but I don't see why Natalie cares, enough to sell the only thing in the world she has. That said, the conversation in the car- (speak for yourself, Natalie, in regards to doing things worse than murder) was interesting. Not sure if that was a comment that they haven't committed murder or that they haven't committed worse than murder. Or maybe they just don't consider whatever they did to be worse than murder? Argh. It's like for every possible clue there is a counter-clue. Perhaps that is why the blackmail was only $50K? Anything more than that and the women might have just thrown up their hands and let the chips fall where they may. I am still surprised they paid it at all. Maybe $10K. And why did they keep the bills wrapped together? Why not just shove all the bills in loose? That would have slowed the man down or forced him to take the whole bag with everything stuffed in it. Jeff as the blackmailer makes sense because the guy was kind of bumbling, but he did clock Taissa in the face which seems unlike Jeff and also I don't think Jeff would have been smart enough to look for a tracker. I agree with the posters saying the 2021 scenes are getting painfully boring. Misty is still a trip to watch but I am beyond bored with Taissa and her political career and exasperated wife, Shauna and her love triangle, and Natalie and the cop. I am a little frustrated with the pacing of the show now. They still have SO MUCH to cover to explain how the girls devolved into ritualistic human sacrifice. I mean, survival is one thing, but they don't have to make a damn dinner party out of it. It seems like episodes 4 and 5 kind of lagged and now they are going to have to shove a lot into the remaining episodes.

Frightfully clever of Caldwell to actually install someone in the hotel under Matt's name (vs just making the reservation and letting the no show fee come up on his credit card)...too bad he didn't consider that the one time Angela actually does her job, she really goes above and beyond.

For Angela, or for Dexter? For Dexter, wasn't it that he was following the podcast girl and thought the way Caldwell was acting was textbook predator behavior? He was suspicious of Caldwell but I don't think he thought Caldwell was murdering women until he followed them and busted into the abandoned cabin. Angela is super contrived, that's for sure. I get it, she's pissed she had 60 civilian volunteers out in the middle of winter looking for Matt, and she hears he's been holed up in a 5 star hotel dodging her calls. I'd be pissed too. But, legally speaking, is Matt obligated to call her? The shooting of the white buck is not her jurisdiction. The attack on Matt and his blood being found on the scene might warrant a few questions, but as far as Angela knows, he's the victim. Are victims legally required to cooperate with police? You'd think most people in Angela's shoes would just shrug and say what a dick, and move on. But Angela drives to NYC to confront him, then strong arms the hotel clerk into showing security footage (who checks out at the front desk anymore???), thus confirming this is a large conspiracy started by Kurt. Then she manages to recall a conversation she had with Kurt which leads her to conclude he obviously wanted to avoid the PD searching the caves. I went back and watched the scene where she tells him they are searching the caves, and he does express surprise she thinks Matt could be out that far, but nothing about his reaction was over the top or something that would really stick in your mind. So, Angela is basically naturally suspicious and has a great memory when the storyline warrants it, and completely oblivious and indiscreet when the storyline warrants that as well.

OK.

I am sure this is a big part of why Beth is the way she is, but I don't think she's angry at John. She blames herself and feels unworthy of love and forgiveness and she thinks John is some kind of saint for forgiving her anyways. When really, what John should have done is reassured her that he did not blame her, that it wasn't her fault, and it was just an unforeseen tragedy that could have happened to anyone. And not to victim blame, but if Beth was so uncomfortable and nervous on a horse, perhaps it wasn't brilliant of Evelyn to force her to ride one and insist on going so far from the house in an area Beth didn't know and had to navigate while traumatized. But otherwise, yes, I think you are right, sitting at that table is a constant reopening of the wound for Beth. Would be nice if she would just maturely ask if they could rearrange their dinner setup but John would probably balk.

The link Bitter Apple posted shows 3-4 separate screen shots and the last one is movie characters Jackie would be (either because she is similar to them or wants to be them, is not clear). Cher from Clueless, Mia from Pulp Fiction, and Vada from My Girl are all before 1996. Sydney from Scream is close- pretty sure the movie was released in late 96 though. Rose from Titanic was from 1997, Torrance from Bring it On was 2000. Who am I forgetting? About half the list referenced movie characters from movies released after the summer of 1996. ETA: duh Tatum, I talked about it on the previous page. Angela from American Beauty and Kat from 10 Things I Hate About You, and both were in 1999 I think. ETA again: totally OT, but who were the Hollywood It girls of 1996? It would be several years before the WB actresses and Jennifer Love Hewitt were in every teen movie. I remember Claire Danes and Winona Ryder were kind of popular, but I will admit I never cared for either of them. I think Angelina Jolie was popular back then. Most of the Hollywood heavy hitters though were older (by older I mean not teenagers) actresses at the time, I think.

Kurt said something like, I thought we were going to be friends when we first met, or something to that effect. He said something similar about Harrison, but I can't remember what. It was either in this episode or the one right before it. It's ambiguous (maybe he just thought Jim Lindsay was a happening kind of guy), but that is what I think we are supposed to take from that conversation. As far as Kurt's motivation- remember he did give Chloe $80 to go home, which she spent on a coat. right??? I know Kurt has never used the incinerator for his victims (that we know of), but maybe Chief Moron could consider that's how so many young girls disappear without a trace?

I will have to go back and look at some point. I know in Dollhouse there was a girl with stringy, chin length light brown hair that was much darker at the roots carrying Ben's stretcher to the lake- she maybe could be considered a dark blond? Is that the one you saw? I don't recall another redhead or another dark skinned girl that wasn't Akilah but there certainly could be. The shot I froze was them all running to the lake and maybe I didn't pause it in time to get everyone. That's a lot of survivors still left- this season is 10 episodes, correct? I think from the flashbacks were are now about 8-10 weeks in. If they intended to tell the full story of what happened in the wilderness all in this season they are going to have to pack a lot into the next 4 episodes. I wonder if a lot of people die all at once or are picked off one at a time? Or perhaps only a few die and the group splits into two camps?

Taylor Sheridan wrote Wind River, which I thought was very good. It doesn't even seem like the same writer now. I think this was a nice callback to a scene from either season 2 or 3 where Beth goes on a tirade, throws down her napkin, and flounces off, and Kayce and John kind of snicker and John says something like, has she ever made it through a full meal? Beth has said before she hates sitting at the dinner table because it's too much of a reminder of all they've lost. And it's pretty in character for Beth that if she doesn't like something, she has to ruin it for everyone else as well.

Bite your tongue! In the mid 1990s I remember totally coveting this white wicker bedroom set from Pier One and my mom was like nope. I freeze framed and counted during the Dollhouse, which I think was the only shot wide enough that included everyone. Yes, you can argue I have too much time on my hands. It is very unusual for me to watch a series in real time. I counted 16 people, including Travis, Javi, and coach Ben. There are the four known survivors, the four that don't have adult counterparts but regularly have speaking lines- Van, Jackie, Lottie, and Laura Lee- the JV girl who befriended Taissa and knows about poisonous flowers and mushrooms, the snotty pigtailed girl who complains about everything, one girl who is very skinny and has dark roots, one girl who is heavier and has short hair, and one girl I have not identified. The last three have not had any lines, I don't think. Pigtail Girl is probably going to bite it soon. I don't think the number of survivors has increased, they just are very rarely all in one shot together. Oh, I have no doubt things will unfold and be more or less spoon fed to viewers, I think some people just like to look for hints and stay ahead of the curve. If for example, Jackie does make it back to NJ alive, that will obviously play out in an episode. I don't know if the showrunners are intentionally dropping easter eggs for eagle eyed viewers, or if they just made a boo boo. But the nice thing is, we will all find out, probably in 4 weeks :). Really, why didn't they just have Jackie write, Dylan McKay forever, in her diary. Most of us 90s gals could relate.

That's what I thought! I was sure Shauna got a postcard.