ILoveReading

Robsen 9 whole seconds. I'm a mess. I can only imagine what Jensen was saying. It wasnt' that long ago Rob had a near fatal stroke. Poor Misha looked to be in serious pain. Someone said he was sick and had a bad knee.

Mary sues do get multiple excuses as to why their bad actions aren't really their fault. Ultimately, it was Dean who had to prove his loyalty and trust to Sam, despite Sam being the one to spend the year lying. Or the sudden need to drink demon blood to house Lucifer, something that hasn't been seen before or since. It's the prime definition of whitewashing. They made every other person be on board with it. they even participated, in the blood letting of four human. Even though that made no sense. (really why would Sam want his vessel at full strength? If Lucifer had to expend more energy to stop it from imploding it easier for Sam to take control. ) Or Sam getting to annouce that it was basically Dean who drove Sam into Ruby' arms. Or Red Meat. Getting shot in the stomach is one of the worst places to get get shot, because of the proximately of the bowel and stomach. If one of these gets punctured by the bullet, infection can set in quickly because of stomach acid and fecal matter. Laying bleeding on the floor for hours, Sam should have had a raging infection. But he basically rose himself from the dead, got up took out a were wolf, feel the down the stairs, got up took out another werewolf, and drove and saved Dean. It's not a matter of Sam being strong. Sam's injures should have made it pyhsically impossible to do what he did. Then he only needed some stiches and antibiotics. He literally walked off a gun shot wound. That's not possible where Sam got shot. Or the premier when Demons ran quaking in terror because Sam raised his voice, not to mention how ridiculous the whole thing of demons asking Sam permission if the first place. If Sam was supposed to be seen as weak beause he got hit a few times why are demons asking him for permission to rule hell? As for the Djinn, Sam got full credit. There is a complement then there is Mary Sue complement, like Sam got in this ep. Its like it existence was for the sole purpose of telling how how awesome and amazing Sam is at leading. Even though he made a mistake the narrative clearly said Bobby was the dick for pointing it out and holding Sam accountable. (another Mary Sue trait). As for Dean, apparently were weren't supposed to be looking in that direction. (It reminds me of Luke- these aren't the droids you're looking for).

So nothing in the first half where Dean had to be saved in almost every single ep. Neither brother faired well in the Wayward Eps. Ep 11- Yes, Sam was knocked out and saved but I would love an where we find out Dean's heart was worth 500k. Under Dabb it probably wouldnt' be worth $5.00 Ep 12- Knocked out by Dean, who was cursed with a spell. But he came to and went to save Dean. They both were saved by Rowena but Sam suffered no consequences for giving Rowena the page. He even got to talk about his hell time, and it wasn't used for comic relief. ep 14- I'll concede this one mostly because I really remember nothing. This ep is a complete blank ep 17- He really didn't need to be saved becasue the people who drugged him weren't really trying to hurt him, just stop him. ep 18- He was able to save Gabriel, so not entirely helpless ep 20- He got to lecture Dean about being put at a kiddie table he promoted himself here. ep 21- yes, Sam died ep 23- Dean would be dead if not for Sam. So there were times when Sam was knocked out but he needed to be saved far fewer times then Dean and in the majority of the eps where he was he still got something positive. So yes, I see Super Sam.

Dean specifically made sure to mention it was all Sam. So I don't think authorial intent was for the audience to see Dean as the leader or the savior in this. I don't remember Sam getting knocked out all that much. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I dont' remember it. Here is what I remember for saving in terms of the brothers. I'm defining saving as someone stepping in to stop them from getting hit or killed. Ep 1- Dean, Saved by Sam Ep 2- Dean, Saved by Sam ep 3- Dean, Needed to be saved by a Wayward Sue, and was raked over the coals for being to controlling. ep 4- Dean, needed to be saved by Jack (and Sam I think ). Not to mention that horrid grief section. The writing turned Dean into a bully in this one. ep 5- Dean, Saved by Sam and Billie. Wanted to give up and stop fighting ep 6- Tombstone- Dean, saved by the sheriff (I think ) ep 7- I think this is the first one Dean didn't need a rescue ep 8- By Smash. Hell time used as comic relief. ep 9/10- Another Wayward Sue rescue, but but brothers But Dean was the one that held the gun on Kaia ep 11- Yes, Sam needed to be saved but there was also the sledgehammer that Sam's heart was worth 500K. I would have gladly swapped Dean's place in this ep. So being the one needing to be saved wasn't a bad thing in this case. ep 12- Saved by Rowena. Made the dumb announcement about witch killing bullets and stood there, long enough for them to attack. ep 13- Saved by Ketch (I think). ep 14- I literally don't remember anything in this ep. ep15- I don't think either needed to be saved. ep 16- I think Sam saved Dean from the dinosaur but I could be mis-remembering. ep 17- I remember Sam getting hit with a frying pan (I think) but he didn't need to be saved, it turns out they were men of letters and trying to stop Sam and Dean. Dean gets captured, too But it was nice to see him save himself. ep 18- Saved by Ketch in the AU, not to mention needing a lecture on stealth. ep 19- I think this was pretty good for both brothers, although it introduced an interesting plot point for Dean that was dropped. ep 20- Unfinished business- saved by Gabriel, lectured by Sam. ep 21- Beat the devil- Sam needs to be saved by Lucifer but not treated as weakness, or held against him by anyone, Sam promoted to leader. eo 22- Exodus- Honestly don't remember. But Sam was clearly in the leader position with the AU people, Dean fixed and drove a bus, and got to be clingy. ep 23- marionette fight, and saved by Sam. So I don;t see exactly what Dean fans have to celebrate here. Sam might have gotten a few bumps on the noggin but I don't see him fairing too badly, other than ep 21, but like I said he still got promotion out of that.

We all knew it was coming the minute Dabb changed his story to "nothing ever dies" and ERL said he was her favorite charater to write for.* Dabb is a coward. *That is meant as a generalized statement, not a literal everyone on this board.

I read on Tumblr that Mark P gave an interview at the 300th and he slipped and said Lucifer, rather than Nick. Something about tracking a demon. This was supposedly episode 11. So this confirms my suspicions that when they go into the empty to get Jack's grace, Lucifer is going to escape. So this means Sam will probably get to confront and kill both Lucifer and Michael. This season is so predictable. I called TMNS stopping Michael off screen, and I called the whole empty thing too.

Dabb's assistant was there. She could have tweeted on his behalf if he's in a situation where it wasn't possible. That fact that he couldn't send out a simple congrats tweet, for me is telling

The blame was on the conversations, not Jared. Dabb obviously cares about Sam and his storyline and wants to help Jared tell it. Dean he keeps demonstrating he doesn't give a crap out. As Jensen said, he's an island unto himself. For me, its couldn't be more obvious that Dabb will put time and effort in when its Sam/Jared but not Dean/Jensen.

I can't believe i'm saying this, but I think I'd prefer them to Dabb.

There can't be any other reason for it. If I didn't know watch the show or know anything about Jensen, I'd be thinking that blind item was screaming his name. Reduced role, reduced screen time, stripping of character traits, etc. But everything I know about Jensen says it not.

No spoilers. So, Jensen is playing a brand new character asks Dabb to help to find Michael's motivations. Dabb blows him him off. No help. Yet, Jared has been playing Sam for 14 years and Dabb will repeatedly discuss his character. Jared said he talked to Dabb at the start of the season, and Gen confirms he was on the phone again recently.

Even if Dabb couldn't be there, he still could have tweeted, like Kripke did. Kripke didn't show up to the 100th, and it turned out he was leaving. Should be be so lucky?

I don't really see this as hubris becasue Dean saying he was the only one that could confront Abbadon was true and not just Dean's belief. She could only be killed by the first blade, and Dean was the only thing that could stop her. Sam literally, in this case, had nothing to offer and an extremely high potential of being a casualty. He was also admitting weakness. He said that if Sam was there and and Abbadon went after him, Dean knew that he would give in an give her the first blade. He sent Sam on a wild goose chase because he knew that Sam would insist on coming along even though it was a bad idea because Abbadon would used him to get to Dean. Dean knows his weak spot. Sam proved Dean right when he automatically jumped to Dean treating him like a kid, when it wasn't about that. Sam proved Dean was right to lie because Sam wouldn't have stayed back and he would have cost Dean the fight.

https://tvline.com/2018/11/20/homecoming-season-2-cast-spoilers-julia-roberts-returning/ This sounds like everything else Dabb does. He's trying to cram to much in. We know that it had to be heavily re-written.

I believe Berens was there. Even if Dabb couldn't make it, he could have sent a tweet thanking the cast and crew.

This is exactly why I enjoy their relationship. Dean and Cas's relationship started much the same way. Cas threatened to throw Dean back into hell. But over time we saw it develop and them gain that mutual respect. It didn't happen over night. It took years for Dean to tell Cas he's family, whereas with Jack he did it in episodes. It never felt organic. Even Jensen said it happened way to quick.

Its weird but this is kind of what appeals to about the relationship. Its antagonistic. I just know that David and Jensen play really well off each other and that is makes it enjoyable. It seems like they could develop a friendship, or at least become frenenimes. Ketch did walk into the lion's den to try and save Dean when he went back to London to track down leads. It's more than this own mother did.

No worries, I knew you weren't blasting it, just saying you disagreed. :-) It wasn't meant to start anything, just more for my own amusement.

I know this is petty but I really don't care. One of my favorite moments of the ep was when Sam was playing with his fidget spinner and really enjoying it Charlie gives him a Sam's patented buzzkill look and he gets embarrassed and stops. Considering how many times Sam does that to Dean when he's enjoying something it serves him right that he got a taste of his own medicine.

From the Optimism thread: A discussion on Dean and his relationship with Ketch. Maybe because its because I've met David a couple of times. He's a super nice and friendly guy and I enjoy listening to him talk about his character. He puts a lot of thought into his answers. He doesn't make excuses or apologize for Ketch's actions or try to white wash them. He doesnt' see Ketch as seeking redemption and makes no apologies for who Ketch is. It was kind of nice because lately every single character, except Dean, is a woebegotten woobie who is just misunderstood. He said Ketch was trained to live life by a code. When the Brits went belly up, so did that code. So Ketch really is looking more for a new code or ideal to follow. Not redemption. He is who he is. I've been kind of intrigued by the dynamic between him and Dean since The Raid. Ketch always had respect for Dean's abilities, but thought his methods were sloppy. (David's response after the raid). . When I told David I was enjoying this dynamic, his answer was "Me too." Its nice to see a character that respects Dean. Not to mention that fact that David and Jensen have some mad chemistry. So when I say I ship them its more than just wanting to see them hook up. I'm a realist. I don't think their besties and I also don't think either would hesitate to throw the other under a bus if it suited their purpose. I just think the two play well off each other. I enjoy watching it. As for the Mary factor, it doesn't bother me for 3 reasons. 1. Dean's adopted. 2. I really did forget they hooked up until @catrox14 reminded me. lol. That' show little of an impression they made on me. 3. It will never happen on screen. Another thing is that Ketch comes with no strings. He's not someone who Dean has too look after or coddle or prop up. The two have a more equal relationship and that makes me want more.

I'll respond to the Ketch topic in the Dean thread to this thread doesn't get too far off topic. To get this thread on topic, there was another moment in this ep where Dean reminded me of Michael. It was just before he started to fight Vance, when he said "Lets Dance. The look on his face, seemed a little psycho.

I don't really see Mary feeling guilty. She;'s watching Sam burn the candle at both ends and doesn't seem to have offered to take over some of the responsibilities so he can eat and sleep. She didnt' seem to be going out of the bunker actively chasing down leads. She only went with Sam when he had one. Plus, the bunker has recently gained a fully stocked infirmary. So if she feels so guilty there was no reason to leave. It comes across far more as her wanting alone time with Bobby. Which fine, but they need to stop saying she gives a damn about Sam or Dean other than paying lip service to it. This is how I saw it. But I have a personal head canon that Dean used this as a cover story. He actually went somewhere to get away from Chief and his minions. So I think he met Ketch and they went for a motor bike ride, a quick hunt, and a makeout session.

I kind of have mixed feelings about it. One one hand I think its a big excessive to ask the fandom to fund a 100k project, but on the other its a person's choice if they want to donate.

It also helped that Dean didn't feel the need to mollycoddle him and baby him, or tell him what a little snowflake he was every other scene. I wish we had gotten scenes of Michael asking Mary what she wanted, her saying Dean back and then Michael telling her how crappy she's treated him since she got back, and point out that even though Dean begged her to see him, she still doesn't. Honestly, it feels like none of Dean's family really see him, unless they need something. Jack too, since he wanted to go hunt and Cas wasn't available for...reasons. Regardless of why it just feels weird, that Dean would make an overnight run to Mary and Bobby's. Surely they are capable of going shopping or buying supplies. I would have rather know where Cas was and why he was MIA. I don't understand why Sam didn't try to appeal the more practical side of things. Michael is out there hunting hunters. Does Charlie know this? (or for that matter does the writer of the episode know this?) Charlie being along right now would put her in as much danger as hunting. Why not have Sam say something like, "I get it, believe me. I tried so many times to get out of this life. It was never in the cards for me, I hope you can but you know Michael is out there. I want you to be safe so you have a home at the bunker and we'll support you no matter what." Charlie still seems to be a tech expert so why not offer the job body cams, checkins so Chief doesn't have to do it all. So he can sleep and eat...and play with his fidget spinner, or whatever else he does. But I think the writers were going for Sam making an inspirational speech and being a motivator. But the writers went about it the wrong way and it made Sam look manipulative and controlling. But I'm sure Charlie will save the day at some point and thank Sam for convincing her to stay.

This is part of the reason I think Dean was right when he told them to pick a hemisphere. I still don't think they like each other very much. Yes there are time when Dean tries to control Sam, but I find he's usually pretty unsuccessful for the most part because Sam rarely listens to him. So for me, Dean often comes across as bossy where Sam comes across at the controlling one. But for me the big difference is that Sam is often given a voice to confront Dean on this. Fallen Idols. and The Purge, or when Sam demanded Dean dump Benny or he'll dump him, Sacrifice, Shadows, Southern comfort where once again Sam threatens to leave Dean unless Dean drops his feelings of abandoment are ones that immediately come to mind. Or we'll get someone like Bobby being a mouth piece and lecturing Dean about how hard they are on Sam. There are times when Dean is allowed to voice his displeasure, but I find he's usually made to take it back or later apologize for even thinking that way. When he said he was upset about the demon blood the writers went out of the their way to write Fallen Idols and had Dean act like a dick just to justify Sam's speech. Sam didn't treat Dean like that in s4. Or The Raid, when Dean was made to take back what he said, and learn to let other make a decision and then in the exact same episode they made it clear, Sam was going to lie to Dean about the brits. When Dean found out, he wasn't even allowed to be mad or upset. He was made to go along with Sam. Sam promoted himself for that decsion. You may think it was wrong the the show never treated it like it was. Sam and Dean pretty much did the exact same thing with the book of the damned and Gadreel. Dean was raked over the coals for being controlling. Sam was considered a loving brother. So there is a clear double standard.