One Night Ultimate Werewolf (ONUW) Mafia Games

[Meredith Quill]

Who's lying @Lisin and what are you claiming to be?

[Deadpool]

1 to DL @Lisin (Bob)

2 to DL @aquarian1 (SilverStormm, Deadpool)

[Drogo]

On 5/22/2016 at 10:30 AM, Drogo said:

We started game discussion early but it will continue through tomorrow as planned originally - and voting can begin Tuesday (or before then if there's a 100% vote to vote.)

@aethera was going to be away and @MuuMuuChainsmoker was under the weather. 

No voting will be finalized until tomorrow, per the above.  Take your time, folks. 

Re:  The Tanner win condition, I was under the impression from our other games that the Tanner's win trumped all, so the Tanner+Village shared win is news to me.  It's good info.

[SVNBob]

17 minutes ago, Drogo said:

this flow chart was not included in the zip file somebody sent me before this game.

I didn't have that chart at the time.  I found it just a few minutes before posting it.  Besides it's in the rulebook, which I did get you.  Under the Tanner.  Sentence 4.

Besides, I'd made a mistake about that too.  I had thought Tanner could tie with the wolves and said so before this game started. 

[Lisin]

I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY! But Shockwave/Flash crashes literally every time I try to type.

I'm going into a Word doc to type stuff out and hopefully paste it in here in a bit. But also real work has to happen. I started to update the list but kept getting crashes so who knows what state it's in now. I will be back. I have thoughts! 

• Doppelganger - claimed by SVNBob, Claims to have copied Mark.  Switched with aethera per @SILVERSTORMM.
• Werewolf
• Werewolf  
• Minion - unclaimed role (per egavasc)
• Mason - Claimed by @SAOIRSE
• Mason -  Claimed by aethera
• Seer - Claimed by egavasc
• Apprentice Seer - unclaimed role (per egavasc)
• Robber Claimed by @JESSE (Now the Insomniac)
• Troublemaker - Claimed by @SILVERSTORMM
• Drunk Claimed by @OINKY BOINKY
• Insomniac - Claimed by @DEADPOOL, but Robbed thereof
• Villager - Claimed by @MACHIABELLY 
• Villager - Claimed by @MUUMUUCHAINSMOKER
• Villager - Claimed by @CuriousParker
• Hunter - Mark copied by SVNBob
• Tanner - We are guessing A1

[Drogo]

I was kidding with you, Bob, though the chart's much easier to decipher than piecing together bios.  I'd been using the win conditions listed at http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=6061751. 

[Lisin]

So, here's the thing... I'm a VV, and I didn't initially say that because I was hoping that more info would come out... but here's the other thing... we can really only "confirm" some of these claims.  

I also have to admit, this whole Tanner thing has been really confusing me because I'd spent so much time thinking "We don't want to kill the Tanner or the Minion" as part of my strategy. Which makes re-reading this all somewhat head hurty because I had initially thought Bob was the Tanner trying to draw out a kill on himself. And I FINALLY understand the Tanner role, which is basically if they die they win always, but if they die with a WW they share the win with us, but if they die alone they win alone if there are active WWs in the game... and If they die with another village member they still win alone. Gah. Still confusing. So, unless we are more sure IMO I'm not ready to vote, because one of the people claiming VV is lying which makes me think that one of them is our Wolf, and I'd think it's @Machiabelly based solely on gameplay (claimed VV and then went poof).  

• Doppelganger - claimed by SVNBob, Claims to have copied Mark.  Switched with aethera per @SILVERSTORMM.
• Werewolf -
• Werewolf  -
• Minion - unclaimed role (per egavasc)
• Mason -  @SAOIRSE Confirmed
• Mason -  @AETHERA Confirmed switched with Bob
• Seer - Claimed by @EGAVASC 
• Apprentice Seer - unclaimed role (per egavasc)
• Robber Claimed by @JESSE (Now the Insomniac) Confirmed
• Troublemaker - Claimed by @SILVERSTORMM
• Drunk Claimed by @OINKY BOINKY
• Insomniac - Claimed by @DEADPOOL, but Robbed thereof Confirmed
• Villager - Claimed by @MACHIABELLY 
• Villager - Claimed by @MUUMUUCHAINSMOKER
• Villager - Claimed by @CuriousParker
• Hunter - Mark copied by SVNBob
• Tanner - We are guessing A1

[Aethera]

(I apologize in advance for not knowing genders for some folks, so I’m going to have to keep saying he/she or using names. And I double-apologize for being one of the wordier forum mafia folks ever to play the game.)

So, OK.  I played a lot of forum mafia a few years ago, but never One Night Ultimate Werewolf or any other 1-Night-1-Day variant, and I can't remember ever playing with a Tanner character.  I’m catching up a bit.  All these role-claims and votes without a pile of justification are making me twitch!
Correct me if I'm wrong - if someone is the Tanner, it's in their interest to act suspiciously enough that the Town tries to lynch them, thinking they’re a werewolf? They can’t die and lose, if I’m reading that chart correctly - they can win with the town, the Minion or the Werewolves, but if they’re dead, they win. So they can choose to care who else might win, or not, and if I were the Tanner, not sure I’d care?

The only reason we’re fine with CP, MMCS and Machiabelly so far, is that they claimed VV and Lisin and A1 didn’t do that? If A1 or Lisin claimed VV at this point, that would throw 3 previous claims into doubt, so I’m surprised that hasn’t happened. A1 hasn’t been here much, and Lisin sort of claimed the

This seems oddly too easy to me - how do Werewolves ever win this game if the Seer looks at 2 cards facedown? It seems clear a tie between Lisin & A1 is the way to go.

Refreshed just before posting, and it’s very odd that Lisin posted a role list where the only roles not notated are Werewolf 1 & 2, and she didn’t put herself anywhere on there, even though she just claimed VV.  That feels like a mistake. Wouldn’t a VV have put themselves in one of the VV claim spots, and if she thinks one of them is lying, have put them in the Werewolf slot, or at the least added a conflict or notation of some kind? Red Flag for me there. She also put 'we' in the Tanner slot which seems presumptive. I’m leaning WW Lisin & A1, Tanner Oinky, at the moment.

[Aethera]

Gah, this is what I get for posting without re-reading after the refresh - dangling sentence.  And editing sounds like a no-no, so that should be (fix in bold):

Quote

(I apologize in advance for not knowing genders for some folks, so I’m going to have to keep saying he/she or using names. And I double-apologize for being one of the wordier forum mafia folks ever to play the game.)

So, OK.  I played a lot of forum mafia a few years ago, but never One Night Ultimate Werewolf or any other 1-Night-1-Day variant, and I can't remember ever playing with a Tanner character.  I’m catching up a bit.  All these role-claims and votes without a pile of justification are making me twitch!
Correct me if I'm wrong - if someone is the Tanner, it's in their interest to act suspiciously enough that the Town tries to lynch them, thinking they’re a werewolf? They can’t die and lose, if I’m reading that chart correctly - they can win with the town, the Minion or the Werewolves, but if they’re dead, they win. So they can choose to care who else might win, or not, and if I were the Tanner, not sure I’d care?

The only reason we’re fine with CP, MMCS and Machiabelly so far, is that they claimed VV and Lisin and A1 didn’t do that? If A1 or Lisin claimed VV at this point, that would throw 3 previous claims into doubt, so I’m surprised that hasn’t happened. A1 hasn’t been here much, and Lisin sort of claimed the Hunter.

This seems oddly too easy to me - how do Werewolves ever win this game if the Seer looks at 2 cards facedown? It seems clear a tie between Lisin & A1 is the way to go.

Refreshed just before posting, and it’s very odd that Lisin posted a role list where the only roles not notated are Werewolf 1 & 2, and she didn’t put herself anywhere on there, even though she just claimed VV.  That feels like a mistake. Wouldn’t a VV have put themselves in one of the VV claim spots, and if she thinks one of them is lying, have put them in the Werewolf slot, or at the least added a conflict or notation of some kind? Red Flag for me there. She also put 'we' in the Tanner slot which seems presumptive. I’m leaning WW Lisin & A1, Tanner Oinky, at the moment.

[Lisin]

HA! Sorry for my crap list thing @aethera, it's another remnant of me having a crap day with my computer. That was part of the word doc I was using to get things straight and I hadn't realized I had posted it! Doh! I didn't need to put myself on because I knew who I was (VV) so I was posting what everyone either claimed or thought. The "We" was village btw. Because it seems that everyone has sort of agreed that A1 is the Tanner based on the vote. Or, maybe they think I'm the Tanner and A1 is a wolf, but for whatever reason I took the suspicion as A1 is the Tanner and went with it in the list. I'm not convinced we've got two wolves playing. We "know" of 2 of the unclaimed rolls (BTW Seer in our One Night gets the choice of seeing who a player is or seeing two of the unclaimed cards) are Minion and Apprentice Seer, but the other could be Wolf maybe? IDK. This game hurts my head. 

[Meredith Quill]

Mason (Former Doppelgänger) - SVNBob copied Mark became Hunter, then was switched with mason aethera by SILVERSTORMM. (Has no reason to lie now that he knows he is a villager for certain).

Werewolf -

Werewolf  -

Minion - unclaimed role (per egavasc)

Mason -  SAOIRSE Confirmed

Now Dopple Hunter (Former Mason) -  AETHERA Confirmed switched with Bob

Seer - EGAVASC (Early claim with no counter-claim would indicate truthfulness)

Apprentice Seer - unclaimed role (per egavasc)

Insomniac (Former Robber) - JESSE (Robbed Deadpool) Confirmed

Troublemaker - SILVERSTORMM (Unless has amazing psychic abilities the fact that she claimed very early on and hasn't been challenged indicates honesty)

Drunk Claimed by OINKY BOINKY - unsure

Robber (Former Insomniac) - DEADPOOL (Robbed by Jesse) Confirmed

Villager - Claimed by MACHIABELLY - unsure

Villager - Claimed by MUUMUUCHAINSMOKER

Villager - Claimed by CuriousParker

Hunter - Mark copied by SVNBob Confirmed by both Mark and Bob.

Tanner - We are guessing A1

Bolded players are ones who are either confirmed or have reason to be believed.
 

Suspect list:

Lisin - claims VV but took a long time to do so and initially hinted that she could be the Hunter instead of just revealing herself as a VV - why? 
aquarian1 - Has been pretty quiet and not responded to any suspicion placed on her so far, reminds me of how egavasc played the last game. Since all team village roles have gone and she hasn't counter-claimed, is likely either a wolf or the tanner.
OinkyBoinky - claims to be the drunk and that we shouldn't vote for her, could be a deceit but I doubt it. Likely telling the truth.
Machiabelly - claimed VV then nothing since, Lisin suspects him which could be an attempt to throw shade his way and off of herself.
MuuMuuChainsmoker - claims VV, no reason to disbelieve or believe but her posts incline me to believe her.
CuriousParker - claimed VV, hasn't said much else but that isn't unusual for CP, likely telling the truth.

So, imo, based on the above our main suspects are:

aquarian1
Lisin
with a side order of Machiabelly

@Lisin I want to believe you. So if you can convincingly and justifiably answer, why you first hinted at being the Hunter when challenged and also why you took such a long time to reveal being a VV, that may make a difference.
 

[Machiabelly]

I went poof as I had nothing much to contribute. I am who I said and I will vote a bit later.

[Lisin]

Good list @SilverStormm (gah! It works sometimes!!... I hate my work PC). I agree with you on pretty much everything.

The main reason I didn't reveal I was a VV at first was because I figured I had just done 2 rounds of ONW and had come out and told the truth fully both times and it hadn't caused us (the Village) to win... we had 2 Minion wins I wanted to shake things up for myself to see if that gave me better info. (It didn't!) and I was still under the impression that the Village lost if the Tanner died so I also wanted to avoid that trap. When Bob implied that I MUST be Not Team Village earlier it made me suspicious of him because ignoring the fact that Hunter was one of the unclaimed rolls seemed to me to be suspicious. 

I didn't intend to hint that I was the Hunter, I was just pointing out that it had not been "claimed" by a player yet, so Bob saying that the people who still hadn't claimed rolls all must definitely be either Wolves or the Tanner was false. 

 

(and this is the third time I've tried to post this so it's the last I'll be saying until I get home to a normal PC in like 4 hours.)

[Aethera]

Lisin, your explanation just doesn’t hang for me. When you saw 3 VV claims come in, that would be the time to claim - not once you were under suspicion - based on what you’re saying, you should be telling us “clearly one of these 3 is lying so waiting on my role claim DID help”, but instead you’re saying it DIDN’T help, which again feels like you're trying to argue things from a false point of view.

Why isn't Oinky on your list @SilverStormm? Based on what's been claimed, the only possible things behind Door #3 would be Tanner, Werewolf, or if a few people are lying, Vanilla Villager.  I don't think she's lying about being the Drunk, but if she is the Drunk, those are the only roles she could have gotten in the swap, if the rest of us are telling the truth.

 

A note: tonight and tomorrow night I have rehearsal for Footloose, and will be there from about 7pm-10pm, Eastern, and driving/eating from 5:30pm-7pm.  Sometimes I get to just sit on my butt and have plenty of time for the internet, sometimes I'm taking notes and videos of things (I'm the stage manager). So, I'll hope to be around some, but if I vanish, I apologize!

[Meredith Quill]

@aethera My spidey senses are tingling and telling me that @Lisin is telling the truth here. She def isn't the Tanner (she's fighting too hard, and that's what I was looking to see, because a Tanner would likely keep quiet and let the votes fall where they may). As for being a wolf, whether you agree with her reasoning or not, she has been far too 'helpful' (with her lists and speculations) to team village for that to make much sense. Also Wolves do love to claim to be villagers and being the first to claim would make you look less suspect...

This is how I think it went down:

• 2 Werewolves, 1 Tanner (minion is unclaimed)
• These 3 roles are spread out between Oinky, A1 and Machiabelly. 
• None of us, including herself, have any idea who OB might be.
• We have no way of knowing for sure what Machiabelly is because he's been v quiet and nobody looked at or swapped him.
• So bearing all of this in mind, we need to look at the 2 players who are most likely to be bad guys or very suspicious at present. Which means we probably need to DL OB and A1 equally.

Oinky wasn't originally on my 'should be considered for a DL' list because we have no way of knowing whether she is the Tanner or a wolf and we can't garner any clues from her posts because she doesn't know herself.

P.S. I am suspicious of Machiabelly but I think a joint DL between OB and A1 will get the job done.

Bear in mind that this isn't a majority vote, we don't need the MOST votes on any single player, they just need to be equal numbers. Therefore, we can DL OB and A1 with just 6 votes each providing other villagers don't go off on a tangent (looking at you CP!) ;)

Edited May 23, 2016 by SilverStormm
because DL numbers were wrong.

[Aethera]

@SilverStormm I don't see Lisin as being too helpful to be a wolf. Posting summaries like her lists, and trying to explain her actions, is most of her content. Summaries are an excellent way to look like you're generating more content than you are, and her self-contradictions don't look good to me.  But certainly she has had more to say than others who have claimed VV. The less content they generate, the less we have to pick apart, which is a valid strategy.

 

Regarding your note on fighting: on my old forums, we used to call it "Wine In Front of Me" syndrome when we got into this kind of thing - as the Tanner, you wouldn't want to be too helpful in avoiding your own lynch, but what if the Tanner thinks that and seeks to do the opposite, so he/she can say "see, if I was the Tanner, why would I be helpful" but if the Tanner thought we'd think that, they might not fight and then they could make make THAT point and then everyone goes cross-eyed.  Generally, anything that falls under Wine In Front of Me becomes a null tell, to me, but this is my first time playing this crowd, so I don't have previous games behavior to fall back on instead. In this case, I am more inclined to think Lisin a Wolf than the Tanner, based on what we've seen so far.

 

I'd like to hear what @aquarian1 has to say after all we've said in the last few hours. I'm certainly willing to entertain the idea that one of the 3 other VV claimers is a Werewolf and Lisin is in fact telling the truth. What say ye, @CuriousParker, @MuuMuuChainsmoker and @Machiabelly?

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

don't go off on a tangent (looking at you CP!) ;)

Pshaw!  I have no idea what you mean!

@aethera, I'm inclined to think Lisin is a wolf.  She would still post her lists in order to act "normal".  So, I think @Lisin or @aquarian1 will get my vote.

[Meredith Quill]

If we had all been playing this kind of game for quite some time, I would agree with the 'Wine in front of me' tactic possibly being in play (cute TPB ref btw). However, this is only like the 4th or 5th game ever played here and the Tanner only got included in game 3 and was an unclaimed role in game 4 was Drogo who then got swapped with Hanged Man and thus he had zero chance to win. So if it is in use this time it's going to be that players' first time as the Tanner (it was me in game 3 and neither Drogo or HM are playing this round). I'm basing it on the probability that a newish player with a never-before-played role is unlikely to try anything too complex. 

@CuriousParker if we know that OB has to be either the Tanner or a wolf and A1 is deffo a bad guy, why would you choose to not vote for them? We don't need to DL Lisin to win. We only need to DL ONE wolf and if we get the Tanner too, we still have a joint win.

We don't know for sure whether Machiabelly or Lisin are lying but it's kinda moot anyway. Thinking strategically; we don't need to DL either Machiabelly OR Lisin to secure a win; we only need to DL OB and A1 equally, isn't that what we're playing for?

ETA: We know that both Lisin and Machiabelly aren't wolves together; if they were Lisin wouldn't be trying to throw MB under the bus.

Edited May 23, 2016 by SilverStormm
Added ETA and don't want to spam the thread. Also I got it wrong, the Tanner was in use in game 4.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

 if we know that OB has to be either the Tanner or a wolf and A1 is deffo a bad guy, why would you choose to not vote for them?

A1 is one of my choices to vote for.

[Meredith Quill]

1 minute ago, CuriousParker said:

A1 is one of my choices to vote for.

You're missing my point my dear. Why bother even contemplating voting for Lisin, we don't need to DL her to win. Also it will be essential to keep the DL numbers even between OB and A1, so if necessary between us all, we may need to jump on or off of DL's because the wolves/Tanner will try to mess up the DL numbers.

[FormerMod-a1]

Real life...  I had one long, fun weekend, ending with 3 hours of sleep, touring all day then driving 6 hours to get home at 10:30pm yesterday.  I was knocked out more than I thought and have been napping most the day (thank god I planned ahead and took the day off). _____________________________________________________________________________

Game... You want to hear from me but I don't know what to say to change anything.  It doesn't look like I can convince you I'm anything other than a WW or Tanner at this point. So whether I am or not is moot.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

You're missing my point my dear.

Nuh-uh.  I got it.  :P

[Lisin]

Sorry! I just got home. Commuter hell party of one.

I totally see where you're coming from @aethera and I'd be suspicious of me too. Unfortunately there's not a ton I can do to assuage those suspicions because I just wasn't here during much of the discussion, the first time I had the opportunity to fully explain myself I did, but I get that it was later than it maybe "should" have been. My reasoning for not initially claiming it was what I said before. I was just trying to see what everyone else would say, and had I been online yesterday I'd probably have revealed it earlier, but I wasn't. Ultimately though I was also suspicious of Bob's claims because they kept switching and since I was under the impression that any time a Tanner dies the Village loses I thought that's what was going on there. 

[Aethera]

@SilverStormm I haven't ever played with a Tanner role, and it was my first thought when reading the role descriptions, but I suppose I spent 4 years being hyper-analytical in this game.

You have a point though, that Lisin is still talking, whereas @aquarian1 isn't sure what to say. It can be really hard to lie as a werewolf...it's why they tend to post less, to give people less to analyze and minimize the chance of a mistake. A1, what is your role in this game? Are you claiming Vanilla Villager as well? That will give us 5 claims on 3 possible VV roles (or 6, if you include Oinky as a possible though of course if she really is the Drunk, she has no idea what she is now).

[Oinky Boinky]

Long drive to play golf, long golf  and long drive home . .  .

Lots of reading. Some doubt my claim or it is unconfirmed. 

Bothers me not. 

I probed here and questioned Drogo about my door picking with the aim of determining if I was minion or apprentice Seer. We have to believe everyone's claims to confirm I am not and only the possibility of ww or Tanner is on my plate.

I don't know. I have a much greater chance of winning if you DL me than if I hang with the town and somehow they win and I am one of them.

My warning  not to DL was altruistic and not really in my best interest so have at it.

[Oinky Boinky]

Where I come from we would say 'fill your boots'

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

I think @aethera has a good point about not automatically trusting those who have claimed villagers.  I know I'm one of that group, but in the interest of helping Team Village, I think everyone should be considered a possible wolf. 

And I hesitate to bring this up since I'm kind of agreeing with a suspected wolf, but I also think there is at least a small chance that SVNBob copied a wolf and he's staying quiet because he is afraid SS is trying to trick him with the Aethera/Bob switch claim.  Or that could just be me assuming what he might think, because I always fear that SS is playing about 6 different moves ahead.  :P

[Aethera]

45 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

I think @aethera has a good point about not automatically trusting those who have claimed villagers.  I know I'm one of that group, but in the interest of helping Team Village, I think everyone should be considered a possible wolf. 

And I hesitate to bring this up since I'm kind of agreeing with a suspected wolf, but I also think there is at least a small chance that SVNBob copied a wolf and he's staying quiet because he is afraid SS is trying to trick him with the Aethera/Bob switch claim.  Or that could just be me assuming what he might think, because I always fear that SS is playing about 6 different moves ahead.  :P

For that to be true, the following things would have to be true:

• Mark is the other werewolf, because otherwise he'd contradict Bob's claim of copying him and him being the Hunter.
• The Hunter would have to be what Oinky is now, because otherwise someone else would have contradicted that claim.

So it would be a large risk - they'd have to hope that none of the 3 people who had already claimed VV were actually the Hunter.

 

You're not going out on much of a limb to say that everyone should be considered a possible wolf, and you're putting up a theory hesitantly that is fairly easily disproven but isn't designed to bring that much suspicion to you, because it's not being vociferously argued. Honestly, this last post of yours is pinging my wolf-dar. I'm now more suspicious of MMCS than Machia.

[Meredith Quill]

37 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

I think @aethera has a good point about not automatically trusting those who have claimed villagers.  I know I'm one of that group, but in the interest of helping Team Village, I think everyone should be considered a possible wolf. 

And I hesitate to bring this up since I'm kind of agreeing with a suspected wolf, but I also think there is at least a small chance that SVNBob copied a wolf and he's staying quiet because he is afraid SS is trying to trick him with the Aethera/Bob switch claim.  Or that could just be me assuming what he might think, because I always fear that SS is playing about 6 different moves ahead.  :P

lol @MuuMuuChainsmoker 
Let's not get ourselves twisted up about this; Bob knew MarkHB was the Hunter before Mark had said it - ergo, that proves that Bob is who he says he is. Because there's no other way Bob could have known that information if he was a wolf or the tanner. Thus it follows, that Bob has no reason to lie whether he believes me or not ;) 

As for suspecting all of the villagers, yes that is true, however, we simply cannot deduce the truth with the limited information we have, so we have no choice but to work on a balance of probabilities. Probabilities being that the wolves and tanner are hiding among A1, Machiabelly, OB and Lisin. 
From those 4 we have to decide who we trust the least based on info and gameplay.

• Oinky doesn't know who she is; she is either a wolf, the tanner or a vanilla villager - balance of probability says she is more likely to have picked up one of the 2 bad roles than the single good one.
• A1 has behaved extremely suspect during this game, I would suspect Tanner based on her lack of defence but I don't know for sure. Just basing it on her gameplay so far.
• Lisin or Machiabelly, one of these is likely a bad guy. Lisin maybe worked herself into a corner and is actually innocent - maybe not, again I don't know. Machiabelly was the first out of the gate to claim anything then remained silent until suspicion was placed on him. That would be a good tactic for a wolf but again, I do not know.

This is what I'm basing my suggestion of DL'ing OB and A1 on, probability, and of those 4, those 2 are the most likely bad guys.

I've said all of this a couple of times now and I'm not going to keep repeating myself because that's just boring. I've placed my vote and everyone else should follow what they believe. I am not saying I am 100% right, just that is how I see it. 

FWIW, I believe MuuMuu, I know from first hand experience that she can be suspicious of everyone ;)

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Well, my thinking in that scenario was that SVNBob had narrowed down the list of possible Hunters to a short one, so he took an educated guess and said he copied Mark as the Hunter.  If he was right, great.  If not, he could say that he was lying to draw out a wolf (as both he and SS had just been doing in that discussion.)  I bring it up because that's what I thought was happening at the time--Silver and Bob were playing a battle of wits and Silver was going to trick Bob into revealing he was the wolf. 

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

13 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

FWIW, I believe MuuMuu, I know from first hand experience that she can be suspicious of everyone ;)

This was me in the last full game:

[Edited because: grammar is everyone's friend.]

[Meredith Quill]

3 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Well, my thinking in that scenario was that SVNBob had narrowed down the list of possible Hunters to a short one, so he took an educated guess and said he copied Mark as the Hunter.  If he was right, great.  If not, he could say that he was lying to draw out a wolf (as both he and SS had just been doing in that discussion.)  I bring it up because that's what I thought was happening at the time--Silver and Bob were playing a battle of wits and Silver was going to trick Bob into revealing he was the wolf. 

You thought correctly. 

My only comment would be this; if Bob is continuing to lie now, that means that aethera is a wolf and he would be condemning his own team because he is def now a mason. FWIW, even I wouldn't go this far with a charade - the whole 'who to DL' repeated posts. Perhaps I will in future (chaos is a laddah!) but first time as TM I've played it pretty straight for me.

[Drogo]

Looks like everyone is back in action, so voting can begin anytime.

The vote count will be finalized around 2pm Eastern time Tuesday/tomorrow. 

Good luck, Mafiosos!

[SVNBob]

I really am trying to concentrate on the championship game.  But since this one started first, I keep coming back to see how it's going.

Silver, if you are sure the suspects number 4, there is another way.  The "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" plan.  

We could vote a 4-way tie between the top 2 of your list, and our 2 Hunters.  And then Mark and aethera each vote individually for the last 2 of your suspects.  High body count, but it would get everyone.

Tanner should go along with this, because we're trying to help you win too.
 

[MarkHB]

I'm in.  I'll happily vote as needed.

[Meredith Quill]

8 hours ago, SVNBob said:

I really am trying to concentrate on the championship game.  But since this one started first, I keep coming back to see how it's going.

Silver, if you are sure the suspects number 4, there is another way.  The "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" plan.  

We could vote a 4-way tie between the top 2 of your list, and our 2 Hunters.  And then Mark and aethera each vote individually for the last 2 of your suspects.  High body count, but it would get everyone.

Tanner should go along with this, because we're trying to help you win too.
 

I can get on board with that; so ignoring the 2 possible wolves we need 3 votes for each of the 4 and if anyone bumps a DL up to 4, we know who the wolves are and need to adjust accordingly, right?
 

• OinkyBoinky
• aquarian1
• MarkHB
• aethera

Currently:

1 to DL Lisin (Bob)

2 to DL aquarian1 (SilverStormm, Deadpool)

0 to DL MarkHB

0 to DL aethera

0 to DL OinkyBoinky

Bob can you change your vote from Lisin to one of the 4 please.

ETA: As there are 14 players 2 will need to stay on a redundant DL (all players must vote).

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

I'm on a tablet, but I'll throw in a vote for OB if someone could help me out. 

[Drogo]

**Voting started today so players who cast prior to opening will need to recast.  ( @SVNBob and @Deadpool )

Here is the vote as it stands:

1 to DL @aquarian1 (SilverStormm) 

1 to DL @Oinky Boinky (MuuMuuChainsmoker)

[Meredith Quill]

Posting this here to make it easy for others to see where they need to vote:

1 to DL aquarian1 (SilverStormm)

0 to DL MarkHB

0 to DL aethera

1 to DL OinkyBoinky (MuuMuuChainSmoker)

We need 3 votes on each of these then 2 on a random player so that all players will have voted. If anyone goes against the team village plan of 3 votes each for these 4 and takes it to 4 votes on anyone, then someone else needs to remove their vote and place it elsewhere. Remember, the wolves and possibly the tanner, will likely try to skew the votes at the last minute so we need to stay especially vigilant toward the end and compensate as necessary. 

[SVNBob]

Tanner should be with us, as we're trying to kill them too and force a Village Tanner tie.  So it would only be the Wolves against this plan.

Going with my second choice.

2 to DL aquarian1 (SilverStormm, Bob)

0 to DL MarkHB

0 to DL aethera

1 to DL OinkyBoinky (MuuMuuChainSmoker)

[Guest]

2 to DL aquarian1 (SilverStormm, Bob)

0 to DL MarkHB

0 to DL aethera

2 to DL OinkyBoinky (MuuMuuChainSmoker, CP)

[Aethera]

Why would we vote for the 2 Hunters instead of just voting a tie for all 4 suspects?  Or picking 3? The wolves will try to disrupt either way, and you lose 2 votes from your attempts to tie, since Mark and I would have to vote in other directions, yes?  My understanding of the Hunter is that whoever I'm voting for dies if I'm lynched. If you want me to Hunter-kill someone OTHER than the 4 people you're balancing votes on, which would be the point, your scenario doesn't work, and you require perfect wolf participation. The scenario would have to be something like:

Oinky - 3 votes

A1 - 3 votes

Aeth - 3 votes

Mark - 3 votes

Lisin - Aeth votes

Machia - Mark votes

which uses all 14 votes, including 2 that belong to Werewolves, to achieve the balance.

And then all 6 of us would die - the 4 people with tied votes and the 2 Mark and I are pointing at, as Hunters. And with 2 people trying to change this, it seems unlikely to work. I'm at work, and I have a meeting at 1:30 and a meeting at 2 - I won't be here right at deadline.

This is very weird. I'm feeling very "wolves everywhere" now.

Query: does everyone HAVE to vote?  If not, then a wolf can just not vote, and the plan is ruined. That's a pretty flawed plan if that's all it takes to ruin it.

I have to think.

[Meredith Quill]

23 minutes ago, aethera said:

Why would we vote for the 2 Hunters instead of just voting a tie for all 4 suspects?  Or picking 3? The wolves will try to disrupt either way, and you lose 2 votes from your attempts to tie, since Mark and I would have to vote in other directions, yes?  My understanding of the Hunter is that whoever I'm voting for dies if I'm lynched. If you want me to Hunter-kill someone OTHER than the 4 people you're balancing votes on, which would be the point, your scenario doesn't work, and you require perfect wolf participation. The scenario would have to be something like:

Oinky - 3 votes

A1 - 3 votes

Aeth - 3 votes

Mark - 3 votes

Lisin - Aeth votes

Machia - Mark votes

which uses all 14 votes, including 2 that belong to Werewolves, to achieve the balance.

And then all 6 of us would die - the 4 people with tied votes and the 2 Mark and I are pointing at, as Hunters. And with 2 people trying to change this, it seems unlikely to work. I'm at work, and I have a meeting at 1:30 and a meeting at 2 - I won't be here right at deadline.

This is very weird. I'm feeling very "wolves everywhere" now.

Query: does everyone HAVE to vote?  If not, then a wolf can just not vote, and the plan is ruined. That's a pretty flawed plan if that's all it takes to ruin it.

I have to think.

Yes you are right @aethera I'd go with that idea of you and MarkHB voting for Lisin and MB.

Yes everyone has to vote. It only needs 2 villagers to be here around the deadline (if both wolves are aware they are wolves of course - if OB is a wolf she doesn't know it) to compensate for any wolfish shenanigans.

[Aethera]

1 minute ago, SilverStormm said:

Yes you are right @aethera I'd go with that idea of you and MarkHB voting for Lisin and MB.

Yes everyone has to vote. It only needs 2 villagers to be here around the deadline (if both wolves are aware they are wolves of course - if OB is a wolf she doesn't know it) to compensate for any wolfish shenanigans.

Oh - so if someone doesn't vote, what happens? The Day doesn't end until they do? And then it ends immediately, or after some amount of time?

[Jesse]

I think Day will end even without everyone voting. 

 

3 to DL aquarian1 (SilverStormm, Bob, Jesse)

0 to DL MarkHB

0 to DL aethera

2 to DL OinkyBoinky (MuuMuuChainSmoker, CP)

 

Right? 

[MarkHB]

* sniff *  Nobody wants to kill me.

[Aethera]

OK, so @Drogo, can I get a ruling, please?  Does Day end at 2pm Eastern whether or not all people have voted? If it does, we cannot use SS's plan, I'd say. We can modify it though - tie 2 people, or 3, or 2 votes each instead of 3.

I think I'm the only one interested in discussing this further, so pending Drogo's answer, I guess I'll just add my vote for Lisin now.

3 to DL aquarian1 (SilverStormm, Bob, Jesse)

0 to DL MarkHB

0 to DL aethera

2 to DL OinkyBoinky (MuuMuuChainSmoker, CP)

1 to DL Lisin (Aethera)

[Lisin]

This is right right? I mean I can switch if needed, I was just making it even. 

3 to DL aquarian1 (SilverStormm, Bob, Jesse)

0 to DL MarkHB

0 to DL aethera

3 to DL OinkyBoinky (MuuMuuChainSmoker, CP, Lisin)

1 to DL Lisin (Aethera) 

[Meredith Quill]

3 to DL aquarian1 (SilverStormm, Bob, Jesse) complete

(3 votes needed) 0 to DL MarkHB

(3 votes needed) 0 to DL aethera 

3 to DL OinkyBoinky (MuuMuuChainSmoker, CP, Lisin) complete

1 to DL Lisin (Aethera) complete

(MarkHB needs to vote here only) 0 to DL Machiabelly 

[MarkHB]

I think this is the plan...

3 to DL aquarian1 (SilverStormm, Bob, Jesse)

0 to DL MarkHB

0 to DL aethera

3 to DL OinkyBoinky (MuuMuuChainSmoker, CP, Lisin)

1 to DL Lisin (Aethera) 

1 to DL Machiabelly (MarkHB)